| BREAKING NEWS: No selling shareholder has yet received ANY cash from Alexander J 20:40 - Jul 14 with 16098 views | RAFCBLUE |
It appears the proposed takeover committee of Alexander Jarvis, Andy Curran and Darrell Rose have hit a bit of a problem.
Money.
When you offer to buy something, we all know you must pay for it to get it and so far, not one of the selling shareholders has received a penny of the proposed funds that they have been offered by Jarvis, Curran and Rose for a private and quick sale of their shares.
There are “agreements in principle” for several significant shareholders with Alexander Jarvis to sell but only IF Alexander Jarvis can secure a controlling shareholding. No shares have been transferred to Andy Curran or Darrell Rose and therefore no money has been received by selling shareholders.
The deal is being managed personally by Alexander Jarvis of Blackridge Sports and law firm Gateley. Gateley describe themselves as “passionate problem solvers, we get our kicks from finding the right answers and getting our clients where they need to be.”
That’s lawyer speaks for saying we do as we are told.
To be clear, Gateley are not writing the cheques here, they are a middleman handling client funds for Alexander Jarvis, Andy Curran and Darrell Rose and can only pay for the shares when they say so.
This has come to light following the EFL statement yesterday, that has put a huge spanner in the works for the deal.
https://www.efl.com/news/2021/july/efl-statement-rochdale-afc/
Without getting to 50% there is no deal and Alexander Jarvis, Andy Curran and Darrell Rose are not going to put money into having only a very small shareholding in a League 2 football club as there is nothing in it for them.
The EFL statements reads like truly little is known about these people and a full investigation will be done [i[IF they present the required information to the EFL.
The other concern is the source and use of the funds. The EFL have already raised this via their statement but both them and the lawyers acting for Gateley and for the selling shareholders both have to comply with two bits of law:
1. Proceeds of Crime Act 2002 and
2. The Money Laundering, Terrorist Financing and Transfer of Funds (Information on the Payer) Regulations 2017
The requirements on solicitors are onerous and found here:
https://www.sra.org.uk/risk/outlook/risk-outlook-2020-21/anti-money-laundering/
Any selling shareholder is going to want to make sure that they have carefully checked the source of their windfall; because the authorities can and will seize anything they believe is caught by either legislation.
Even Rochdale Online has some good examples of the authorities seizing dirty money and shows how easy it is to fall four of the law in this area:
https://www.rochdaleonline.co.uk/news-features/2/news-headlines/141906/criminals
If I had agreed to sell to Alexander Jarvis and that wasn’t binding I’d want to make sure that I wasn’t being duped and that somewhere down the line there would be a knock on my door by a Police Officer!
A conditional offer refers to a takeover offer which is expressed to be subject to certain conditions being fulfilled. This means that the buyer will only become obligated to purchase the shares in the target company (i.e. Rochdale) which have been validly tendered in acceptance of the offer after the conditions have been fulfilled.
The EFL signoff is itself conditional on the proposed buyers complying with all EFL regulations.
And before that can happen though, Alexander Jarvis, Andy Curran and Darrell Rose have some cash transfers to get done.
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| BREAKING NEWS: No selling shareholder has yet received ANY cash from Alexander J on 20:29 - Aug 4 with 3721 views | tony_roch975 |
| BREAKING NEWS: No selling shareholder has yet received ANY cash from Alexander J on 20:26 - Aug 4 by MoonyDale |
I am now more worried than ever after tonights forum, especially the proxy vote malarky and the news that the shares the trust were buying with the Cloughie legacy hasn't gone through due to some legality problems.... [Post edited 4 Aug 2021 20:32]
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agree, just posted that on the Forum thread |  |
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| BREAKING NEWS: No selling shareholder has yet received ANY cash from Alexander J on 20:33 - Aug 4 with 3683 views | RAFCBLUE |
| BREAKING NEWS: No selling shareholder has yet received ANY cash from Alexander J on 20:26 - Aug 4 by MoonyDale |
I am now more worried than ever after tonights forum, especially the proxy vote malarky and the news that the shares the trust were buying with the Cloughie legacy hasn't gone through due to some legality problems.... [Post edited 4 Aug 2021 20:32]
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What was said:
1. The EFL consider 30% to be the level where they test control, because it is a large shareholding level. However you need 50% to control a club.
2. NO SHARE TRANSFER FORMS HAVE BEEN RECEIVED.
3. Even if a share transfer form was received, the Board CANNOT sign them unless the EFL tell them that it is ok to do so; the top table said they have legal advice on this.
I think I'd be more worried if I was Curran and Rose.
I've bought a minority share in a club and I can't get to 50%. The Board of that club need the EFL to tell them it's ok and the Board aren't signing anything without EFL approval.
In the midst of that the top table noted, in response to a question that the potential owners made "discriminatory" comments which breach EFL rules.
I'd say there is a long way to go for Curran and Rose to go; noting that they need to:
1) Produce some actual evidence of share certificates
2) Have a meeting with the Board to ask them to sign them
3) Receive EFL approval
4) Those share transfers to be 50% - or else the are just a minority shareholder with a minority shareholder's say.
The corporate world is one of twists and turns, but I've more confidence having heard our top table speak tonight and the solid financial base we have about the ability to see off any hostile and unwelcome opportunists. | |
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| BREAKING NEWS: No selling shareholder has yet received ANY cash from Alexander J on 20:35 - Aug 4 with 3677 views | boromat |
It sounds like there is some belief that the money is in a holding account ready to be transferred and for the period it is in that state the shysters potentially have share voting powers or would have a deal in place such that the existing shareholder would purchase on their behalf.
It's like a game of chess in that regard. The saving grace is that everything we find out about them and the way they've gone about the whole thing along with their foul language casts quite a shadow meaning the EFL really can't approve them as fit and suitable owners (surely!). | |
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| BREAKING NEWS: No selling shareholder has yet received ANY cash from Alexander J on 20:43 - Aug 4 with 3641 views | RAFCBLUE |
| BREAKING NEWS: No selling shareholder has yet received ANY cash from Alexander J on 20:35 - Aug 4 by boromat |
It sounds like there is some belief that the money is in a holding account ready to be transferred and for the period it is in that state the shysters potentially have share voting powers or would have a deal in place such that the existing shareholder would purchase on their behalf.
It's like a game of chess in that regard. The saving grace is that everything we find out about them and the way they've gone about the whole thing along with their foul language casts quite a shadow meaning the EFL really can't approve them as fit and suitable owners (surely!). |
From what was disclosed, there are a number of ways they can lose and its really a very high risk strategy to have put money at risk to do that.
1) The EFL refuse them. No deal; were does the money go then?
2) They can't achieve any more share purchases, which will be tough now their names and methods are in the public domain. No deal, where does the money go then?
Certainly if I am a shareholder and I haven't drawn my money I would be really worried now that I am being used as a front for something that might see me, the shareholder, in trouble.
Then add in the very serious issues of discriminatory comments and you can see the sort of characters that the club are dealing with.
On the plus side, there are no tickets left for Harrogate away; I don't think Curran or Rose will be there! | |
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| BREAKING NEWS: No selling shareholder has yet received ANY cash from Alexander J on 20:50 - Aug 4 with 3588 views | SuddenLad |
Is there a scenario in which the club can simply refuse to sign any share transfer forms, on the basis that it is 'not in the best interests of the club'?
Surely these people can't ever be judged by any ruling body, to be 'fit and proper' in any definition of the phrase. |  |
| “It is easier to fool people, than to convince them that they have been fooled†|
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| BREAKING NEWS: No selling shareholder has yet received ANY cash from Alexander J on 21:29 - Aug 4 with 3472 views | RAFCBLUE |
| BREAKING NEWS: No selling shareholder has yet received ANY cash from Alexander J on 20:50 - Aug 4 by SuddenLad |
Is there a scenario in which the club can simply refuse to sign any share transfer forms, on the basis that it is 'not in the best interests of the club'?
Surely these people can't ever be judged by any ruling body, to be 'fit and proper' in any definition of the phrase. |
They can only sign those forms if the EFL tell them they can.
In essence, from what was disclosed tonight, the EFL get to say yes or no on the Fit and Proper test and if they say no, that's it for Curran and Rose.
Obviously as the regulator there is the huge potential for an egg on face moment here after what went on at bury.
The EFL will have to be completely and utterly sure that those proposing themselves pass all the requirements and if they do not then they are simply not able to participate, regardless of how many or how few shares they claim to have. | |
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| BREAKING NEWS: No selling shareholder has yet received ANY cash from Alexander J on 07:28 - Aug 5 with 3233 views | NorthernDale |
Can the supporters trust or the fans contact the EFL to raise our concerns and objections to these shysters? Because the interest of the club and fans must be of paramount importance to the EFL.
Hopefully the EFL have woken up to shysters seeking over clubs in the EFL , without the money and then passing their debts onto the club, whilst bleeding the club dry by paying themselves consultancy fees (see Bolton, Bury and Macclesfield) and will say enough is enough. | | | |
| BREAKING NEWS: No selling shareholder has yet received ANY cash from Alexander J on 07:57 - Aug 5 with 3161 views | ColDale |
| BREAKING NEWS: No selling shareholder has yet received ANY cash from Alexander J on 07:28 - Aug 5 by NorthernDale |
Can the supporters trust or the fans contact the EFL to raise our concerns and objections to these shysters? Because the interest of the club and fans must be of paramount importance to the EFL.
Hopefully the EFL have woken up to shysters seeking over clubs in the EFL , without the money and then passing their debts onto the club, whilst bleeding the club dry by paying themselves consultancy fees (see Bolton, Bury and Macclesfield) and will say enough is enough. |
We have contacted the EFL on 9th July, 14th July, 25th July, 27th July, 28th July, 29th July and 2nd August. By about 9am, we'll have added 5th August to that list. |  | | |
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| BREAKING NEWS: No selling shareholder has yet received ANY cash from Alexander J on 08:17 - Aug 5 with 3113 views | NorthernDale |
This issue as been raised by somebody else, is the sale of Andrew Kelly's shares to the trust still going through? | | | |
| BREAKING NEWS: No selling shareholder has yet received ANY cash from Alexander J on 09:48 - Aug 5 with 3004 views | Salegraham |
| BREAKING NEWS: No selling shareholder has yet received ANY cash from Alexander J on 08:17 - Aug 5 by NorthernDale |
This issue as been raised by somebody else, is the sale of Andrew Kelly's shares to the trust still going through? |
Was sent a reply to a enquiry I about the Americans shares, I was told they have sold there share holding, but the trust doesn't know who's bought them. | | | |
| BREAKING NEWS: No selling shareholder has yet received ANY cash from Alexander J on 09:55 - Aug 5 with 2975 views | DaleiLama |
| BREAKING NEWS: No selling shareholder has yet received ANY cash from Alexander J on 09:48 - Aug 5 by Salegraham |
Was sent a reply to a enquiry I about the Americans shares, I was told they have sold there share holding, but the trust doesn't know who's bought them. |
First lesson I learned in sales is that a sale isn't a sale until its paid for. |  |
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| BREAKING NEWS: No selling shareholder has yet received ANY cash from Alexander J on 11:20 - Aug 5 with 2845 views | foreverhopefulDale |
| BREAKING NEWS: No selling shareholder has yet received ANY cash from Alexander J on 09:48 - Aug 5 by Salegraham |
Was sent a reply to a enquiry I about the Americans shares, I was told they have sold there share holding, but the trust doesn't know who's bought them. |
Maybe an agreement has been reached to the selling of the shares, but until they have been signed off by the RAFC board, after agreement from the EFL, the shares have not changed hands. |  |
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| BREAKING NEWS: No selling shareholder has yet received ANY cash from Alexander J on 11:27 - Aug 5 with 2825 views | tony_roch975 |
| BREAKING NEWS: No selling shareholder has yet received ANY cash from Alexander J on 11:20 - Aug 5 by foreverhopefulDale |
Maybe an agreement has been reached to the selling of the shares, but until they have been signed off by the RAFC board, after agreement from the EFL, the shares have not changed hands. |
but if the information from Simon Gauge last night is accurate, the shysters have the voting powers anyway so doesn't matter if the shares transfer has been completed - they could still outvote the rest of us | |
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| BREAKING NEWS: No selling shareholder has yet received ANY cash from Alexander J on 11:29 - Aug 5 with 2809 views | judd |
| BREAKING NEWS: No selling shareholder has yet received ANY cash from Alexander J on 11:27 - Aug 5 by tony_roch975 |
but if the information from Simon Gauge last night is accurate, the shysters have the voting powers anyway so doesn't matter if the shares transfer has been completed - they could still outvote the rest of us |
I think they have power of attorney over the shares, with funds lodged with their solicitor.
However, they do not have 50% or more of shares. We are very dependent on the legal wrangle over Mr Kelly's shares being resolved in favour of the Trust. |  |
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| BREAKING NEWS: No selling shareholder has yet received ANY cash from Alexander J on 11:30 - Aug 5 with 2807 views | RAFCBLUE |
| BREAKING NEWS: No selling shareholder has yet received ANY cash from Alexander J on 11:27 - Aug 5 by tony_roch975 |
but if the information from Simon Gauge last night is accurate, the shysters have the voting powers anyway so doesn't matter if the shares transfer has been completed - they could still outvote the rest of us |
Not true.
To win a vote you need to have a 50.1% majority, which is something that the potential investors do not have.
The EFL test kicks in at 30%, so well below a majority.
What Simon Gauge stated last night is that the club would not do any more share issues that would give a risk of giving further shares away to those who are not in the supporters owned majority group. | |
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| BREAKING NEWS: No selling shareholder has yet received ANY cash from Alexander J on 11:35 - Aug 5 with 2781 views | tony_roch975 |
| BREAKING NEWS: No selling shareholder has yet received ANY cash from Alexander J on 11:30 - Aug 5 by RAFCBLUE |
Not true.
To win a vote you need to have a 50.1% majority, which is something that the potential investors do not have.
The EFL test kicks in at 30%, so well below a majority.
What Simon Gauge stated last night is that the club would not do any more share issues that would give a risk of giving further shares away to those who are not in the supporters owned majority group. |
but we don't know they haven't got 50.1% - we only know they have agreements for circa 42%; that's why the Trust is trying to secure support from the other 40,000 shareholdings but if that isn't secured (through abstention for example) they could still win a vote | |
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| BREAKING NEWS: No selling shareholder has yet received ANY cash from Alexander J on 23:07 - Aug 6 with 2488 views | Marjorie_Plane |
| BREAKING NEWS: No selling shareholder has yet received ANY cash from Alexander J on 11:35 - Aug 5 by tony_roch975 |
but we don't know they haven't got 50.1% - we only know they have agreements for circa 42%; that's why the Trust is trying to secure support from the other 40,000 shareholdings but if that isn't secured (through abstention for example) they could still win a vote |
I'm sure they need 50.1% before they get control... 30% my dear is when the EFL processes kick in for the OADT but at the moment they have 0% |  | | |
| BREAKING NEWS: No selling shareholder has yet received ANY cash from Alexander J on 12:10 - Aug 8 with 2203 views | Sandyman |
| BREAKING NEWS: No selling shareholder has yet received ANY cash from Alexander J on 23:07 - Aug 6 by Marjorie_Plane |
I'm sure they need 50.1% before they get control... 30% my dear is when the EFL processes kick in for the OADT but at the moment they have 0% |
As of today they parasites will still have 0%. Let's make that permanent!
UP THE DALE AND WE'RE NOT FOR SALE |  | | |
| BREAKING NEWS: No selling shareholder has yet received ANY cash from Alexander J on 08:56 - Aug 19 with 1873 views | UpTheDaleNotForSale |
seems to be a fair amount of press interest this week - lots of queries coming in on social media, so giving these threads a bump. |  |
| Twitter : @DaleNotForSale
Facebook : facebook.com/upthedalenotforsale |
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| BREAKING NEWS: No selling shareholder has yet received ANY cash from Alexander J on 13:02 - Aug 19 with 1671 views | boromat |
If one of the admins have some time it'd be great to have a pinned thread at the top linking to all of the threads relevant to the hostile takeover. Not for us but for any media folk coming to have a look.
Obviously having multiple threads is advantageous when it comes to google searches so don't want to stop people adding more threads. | |
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| BREAKING NEWS: No selling shareholder has yet received ANY cash from Alexander J on 23:07 - Aug 20 with 1354 views | RAFCBLUE |
| BREAKING NEWS: No selling shareholder has yet received ANY cash from Alexander J on 13:02 - Aug 19 by boromat |
If one of the admins have some time it'd be great to have a pinned thread at the top linking to all of the threads relevant to the hostile takeover. Not for us but for any media folk coming to have a look.
Obviously having multiple threads is advantageous when it comes to google searches so don't want to stop people adding more threads. |
Another week ends, another week where no share transfer forms have been provided to the Board of the club.
Has the £1m of cash noted by the MEN article really changed hands? | |
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| BREAKING NEWS: No selling shareholder has yet received ANY cash from Alexander J on 07:13 - Aug 21 with 1216 views | NorthernDale |
Does it actually exist? | | | |
| BREAKING NEWS: No selling shareholder has yet received ANY cash from Alexander J on 08:57 - Aug 21 with 1125 views | BlueMessiah |
| BREAKING NEWS: No selling shareholder has yet received ANY cash from Alexander J on 23:07 - Aug 20 by RAFCBLUE |
Another week ends, another week where no share transfer forms have been provided to the Board of the club.
Has the £1m of cash noted by the MEN article really changed hands? |
...and another week when the EFL's silence is truly deafening! |  |
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| BREAKING NEWS: No selling shareholder has yet received ANY cash from Alexander J on 09:19 - Aug 21 with 1086 views | RAFCBLUE |
| BREAKING NEWS: No selling shareholder has yet received ANY cash from Alexander J on 08:57 - Aug 21 by BlueMessiah |
...and another week when the EFL's silence is truly deafening! |
The length of time is not really suprising.
Where the evidence can be provided by the prospective purchasers and all the questions answered then the EFL can made a decision.
Any purchaser can apply but you have to provide the information on Future Financial Information and information on all the purchasers which needs to be tested.
If the evidence is suspect then the EFL have to ask questions or seek more information.
Given what a mass supporter effort has turned up on Darrell Rose, Andy Curran, Denise Courtnell, Faical Safouane, Alexander Jarvis, Morton House and many other businesses that is not a quick exercise.
Then the EFL have to consider two items of misconduct
First, the comments of Andy Curran confirmed by Alexander Jarvis in the Daily Telegraph as homophobic. The EFL and the FA say they are investigating.
Second, the leaked David Bottomley attachment that Alexander Jarvis was sending out. How was that obtained by Alexander Jarvis and what impact does it have on the EFL's view of the fit and proper test.
I read last night on Twitter a post from a Dale fan that said along the lines of:
"We were never for sale, we aren't currently for sale and we don't want you at our club."
That's a great statement and quite a lot for the EFL to consider and for the prospective buyers who are at best looking to buy a minority stake in the club.
The only way that Jarvis can progress is if the EFL say yes. Anything else and I suspect this will all fall over like a house of cards.
Jarvis has more failed takeovers than we have league points so he's familiar with that feeling! | |
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| BREAKING NEWS: No selling shareholder has yet received ANY cash from Alexander J on 12:26 - Aug 21 with 915 views | BlueMessiah |
| BREAKING NEWS: No selling shareholder has yet received ANY cash from Alexander J on 08:57 - Aug 21 by BlueMessiah |
...and another week when the EFL's silence is truly deafening! |
I'll now take full credit for this morning's statement - just like when Joey T came on against Charlton and I bellowed " For fcuk's sakes! What's Thompson going to do??"
Brilliant work from all involved!! ðŸ‘👠| |
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