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It appears the proposed takeover committee of Alexander Jarvis, Andy Curran and Darrell Rose have hit a bit of a problem.
Money.
When you offer to buy something, we all know you must pay for it to get it and so far, not one of the selling shareholders has received a penny of the proposed funds that they have been offered by Jarvis, Curran and Rose for a private and quick sale of their shares.
There are “agreements in principle” for several significant shareholders with Alexander Jarvis to sell but only IF Alexander Jarvis can secure a controlling shareholding. No shares have been transferred to Andy Curran or Darrell Rose and therefore no money has been received by selling shareholders.
The deal is being managed personally by Alexander Jarvis of Blackridge Sports and law firm Gateley. Gateley describe themselves as “passionate problem solvers, we get our kicks from finding the right answers and getting our clients where they need to be.”
That’s lawyer speaks for saying we do as we are told.
To be clear, Gateley are not writing the cheques here, they are a middleman handling client funds for Alexander Jarvis, Andy Curran and Darrell Rose and can only pay for the shares when they say so.
Without getting to 50% there is no deal and Alexander Jarvis, Andy Curran and Darrell Rose are not going to put money into having only a very small shareholding in a League 2 football club as there is nothing in it for them.
The EFL statements reads like truly little is known about these people and a full investigation will be done [i[IF they present the required information to the EFL.
The other concern is the source and use of the funds. The EFL have already raised this via their statement but both them and the lawyers acting for Gateley and for the selling shareholders both have to comply with two bits of law: 1. Proceeds of Crime Act 2002 and 2. The Money Laundering, Terrorist Financing and Transfer of Funds (Information on the Payer) Regulations 2017
Any selling shareholder is going to want to make sure that they have carefully checked the source of their windfall; because the authorities can and will seize anything they believe is caught by either legislation.
If I had agreed to sell to Alexander Jarvis and that wasn’t binding I’d want to make sure that I wasn’t being duped and that somewhere down the line there would be a knock on my door by a Police Officer!
A conditional offer refers to a takeover offer which is expressed to be subject to certain conditions being fulfilled. This means that the buyer will only become obligated to purchase the shares in the target company (i.e. Rochdale) which have been validly tendered in acceptance of the offer after the conditions have been fulfilled.
The EFL signoff is itself conditional on the proposed buyers complying with all EFL regulations.
And before that can happen though, Alexander Jarvis, Andy Curran and Darrell Rose have some cash transfers to get done.
George Bernard Shaw had it right:
"He who can does; he who cannot, teaches."
https://www.visittheusa.co.uk/
BREAKING NEWS: No selling shareholder has yet received ANY cash from Alexander J on 09:19 - Jul 15 by RAFCBLUE
Monies due have allegedly not been paid. EFL rules and regs not complied with and a major legal firm conducting business that might not be to the standards they normally aspire to.
That's not "business" Sandyman.
That's an attempt to con existing shareholders out of their existing shareholdings and cash.
Or politely as the EFL said "misconduct"
Hopefully those who allegedly agreed to sell their shareholdings may be reading this thread and having second thoughts.
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BREAKING NEWS: No selling shareholder has yet received ANY cash from Alexander J on 10:28 - Jul 15 with 4208 views
BREAKING NEWS: No selling shareholder has yet received ANY cash from Alexander J on 10:28 - Jul 15 by DaleiLama
And the sooner more shares can be placed in the hands of true fans who would never countenance selling off the club for profit the better
Or the charlatans who rinse as much money out of the football club as possible with hidden pay rises etc,that would be a start... not bad going from a "lifelong fan"
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BREAKING NEWS: No selling shareholder has yet received ANY cash from Alexander J on 10:39 - Jul 15 with 4136 views
BREAKING NEWS: No selling shareholder has yet received ANY cash from Alexander J on 10:25 - Jul 15 by BigKindo
Hopefully those who allegedly agreed to sell their shareholdings may be reading this thread and having second thoughts.
Or they are reading this thinking "Where is my money?"
Imagine if you're one of the club's bigger shareholders and you're suddenly realising that you might have been implicated in a sting to obtain your direct details abd you've committed to selling (and walking away from the club for your own gain) only to find that there's no cash coming?
As I said earlier, the EFL are watching with interest.
George Bernard Shaw had it right:
"He who can does; he who cannot, teaches."
https://www.visittheusa.co.uk/
On the collar-feeling question, there remains the point that club data was obtained and misused and it is likely that this was not done on behalf of the Board.
If the relevant individual was still a Director, then he has breached the responsibilities of a company director. If he was no longer a director, but still an employee whose final act was to download and remove the shareholder data for his own purposes...
[Post edited 27 Dec 2021 16:16]
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BREAKING NEWS: No selling shareholder has yet received ANY cash from Alexander J on 11:03 - Jul 15 with 4044 views
BREAKING NEWS: No selling shareholder has yet received ANY cash from Alexander J on 10:58 - Jul 15 by finberty
On the collar-feeling question, there remains the point that club data was obtained and misused and it is likely that this was not done on behalf of the Board.
If the relevant individual was still a Director, then he has breached the responsibilities of a company director. If he was no longer a director, but still an employee whose final act was to download and remove the shareholder data for his own purposes...
[Post edited 27 Dec 2021 16:16]
Or someone still employed at the club passed the info on?
In all cases, there should be an electronic trail. It should also be investigated to the fullest extent. No one with the best interests of the club in mind would want this kind of thing to happen again.
The agreements in principle are exactly that and so not legally binding.
For share purchases there are 2 dates to note, the purchase date (date bought) and settlement date (date they are paid for) both are usually in very close proximity to each other but this is certainly not that.
As regards the Anti Money Laundering point, it is fact that the legal firm will have to undertake Know Your Client procedures and understand the origin of the money. This does not necessarily mean that the legal firm will hold them to account to the law's fullest extent because at the end of the day if they don't get the shares transferred then they don't get paid.
It has not stopped huge corporations, HSBC, in the past laundering for such highly regarded institutions as the Sinaloa drug cartel and more recently $292m for a Panamanian based organisation who have been classed as a major money launderer by the US.
If there has been a data breach and it has been reported to the ICO, both stages are required, then it is the organisation that will be fined for the data breach and would that in fact be the club?
Proceeds of Crime Act - best legislation ever, this is used to prosecute criminals and seize their assets unless they can prove that they own them and they are not, in fact, proceeds of crime. It is used at the end of proceedings to justify them taking all their assets.
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BREAKING NEWS: No selling shareholder has yet received ANY cash from Alexander J on 12:56 - Jul 15 with 3736 views
BREAKING NEWS: No selling shareholder has yet received ANY cash from Alexander J on 12:56 - Jul 15 by James1980
Is it possible the plan is not to release funds to anyone until 'deals' to purchase 50.1% of shares have been agreed.
I believe that they can't do that as they would need approval from both the club and EFL And with the EFL they have to prove they have the money Seems like they are stuck let's hope they just go running behind whatever rock they came from
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BREAKING NEWS: No selling shareholder has yet received ANY cash from Alexander J on 13:15 - Jul 15 with 3665 views
BREAKING NEWS: No selling shareholder has yet received ANY cash from Alexander J on 13:12 - Jul 15 by visualman
I believe that they can't do that as they would need approval from both the club and EFL And with the EFL they have to prove they have the money Seems like they are stuck let's hope they just go running behind whatever rock they came from
That's good
'Only happy when you've got it often makes you miss the journey'
They're kind of doing it the other way round it seems to me, if indeed they are doing anything, where they're trying to buy the shares then do everything else afterwards.
Sound like they are hoping to get their hands on enough shares throuvh the back door and then hold Dale to ransom. If you want to save your club the shares will cost so much..
Its a good job the current board and the EFL are onto it.......
My all time favourite Dale player Mr Lyndon Symmonds
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BREAKING NEWS: No selling shareholder has yet received ANY cash from Alexander J on 16:34 - Jul 15 with 2995 views
BREAKING NEWS: No selling shareholder has yet received ANY cash from Alexander J on 10:07 - Jul 15 by D_Alien
I expect there's significant numbers of fans who'll continue to withhold SC purchases and other financial input to the club until something reasonably definitive emerges about this attempted takeover
The news that 1000 SCs have been bought might be encouraging to the club but money in the bank is also music to the ears of chancers
That's the reality and perhaps the time has come, as 1907 suggests, for cards to be put on the table and given the hostility and underhandedness of the Cullen/Jarvis mob, a refusal to at least hold further talks if not a direct rejection of the methodologies being employed, thus sending a clear signal to shareholders and fans of the values that we as a club aspire to
Would that be reckless, from a purely business point of view? It may have been up till now, but at some stage it becomes more about "what's the point of business" under such circumstances and take a stand which the EFL should be doing
[Post edited 15 Jul 2021 10:09]
Slowly ticking up
Over 1⃣,1⃣0⃣0⃣ Season Cards sold - thank you for your fantastic support, Dale fans! 👏
They are now on general sale and the easiest way to purchase yours is through our online system 💻
I think fans are getting less and less concerned. I bought mine on day 1 when everything seemed rosey again. Think if I had known I'd have held off but now I'd be thinking about renewing again now.
Think it's time to support the club now as it is. If the worst happens we'd deal with it then but at the moment I think there's been a huge amount of good work gone in by the club and the trust. It's time to start getting behind the new board and manager and spending our money. We've missed out on live football for too long.
BREAKING NEWS: No selling shareholder has yet received ANY cash from Alexander J on 13:12 - Jul 15 by visualman
I believe that they can't do that as they would need approval from both the club and EFL And with the EFL they have to prove they have the money Seems like they are stuck let's hope they just go running behind whatever rock they came from
Hopefully those that tried to sell their shares to these sharks will do the right thing for here onwards,
'Only happy when you've got it often makes you miss the journey'
Bought mine at COA this PM. The new system seems very clunky at the moment and doesn't seem to have copied much across from the old one dunno how they will go on if there is a big queue on matchday, I think they probably need a couple of ticket sheds in the car park. Or is it intended that everyone will buy online prior to the game and there will be nowhere to buy tickets on matchday? Do they realise that lots of us old fogies dont have smart phones and many that do only use them for ringing people and being rung and the occasional text and email?
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BREAKING NEWS: No selling shareholder has yet received ANY cash from Alexander J on 18:27 - Jul 15 with 2640 views
"It's like me saying I'm going to buy a 40% stake in Manchester United; I don't have to prove it."
Strong words from our Chairman but reflective of a fact that we haven't had any share transfer forms from Jarvis, Curran or the lawyers acting for them.
The only way that you can get a share certificate is to pay for it. More evidence that those selling have NOT received cold hard cash from Jarvis and Curran.
George Bernard Shaw had it right:
"He who can does; he who cannot, teaches."
https://www.visittheusa.co.uk/
BREAKING NEWS: No selling shareholder has yet received ANY cash from Alexander J on 13:12 - Jul 15 by visualman
I believe that they can't do that as they would need approval from both the club and EFL And with the EFL they have to prove they have the money Seems like they are stuck let's hope they just go running behind whatever rock they came from
3 Acquiring of Control 3.1 If any Person proposes to acquire Control of a Club:
(a) the Club and/or the Person shall, as far in advance of the acquisition of Control as reasonably possible and in any event no later than 10 Normal Working Days prior to the date on which it is anticipated that such acquisition of Control will take place:
(i) submit to the League a duly completed Declaration in respect of each Person who will become a Relevant person upon the proposed acquisition of Control.
If they are planning on getting to 50.1% then they should, by rights, be in touch with the EFL by now.
The club, via Simon Gauge, have said publicly that there is no takeover bid.
So if Jarvis, Curran or Rose want to launch a takeover bid then I think that there is a mechanism for them to notify the EFL.
However the EFL say pulbicly they have never heard of them and there is no takeover bid.
The EFL also used the word "misconduct" which would indicate if those lurking in the shadows are buying shares and hoping for a blanket clearance, they look to be mistaken.
I'd think the EFL will give any proposed takeover a long hard look and a lot of scrutiny.
The only people talking about takeover are Jarvis, Curran and Rose.
The colour of their money remains to be seen.
George Bernard Shaw had it right:
"He who can does; he who cannot, teaches."
https://www.visittheusa.co.uk/
4th August 2021. Still NO selling shareholder has yet received ANY cash from Alexander Jarvis or those he is purporting to represent.
You would think that if deals have been done, money will have changed hands and be resting in the accounts of the selling shareholders.
If I were one of the big selling shareholders I would be asking where my money was. I'd want to see that money before I'd agree to sign any transfer of my shares to Darrell Rose or Andrew Curran or Morton House Mgt and First Form Construction Limited or AN Other.
Our Alexander has gone very quiet recently.
Have the proposed purchases fallen over?
George Bernard Shaw had it right:
"He who can does; he who cannot, teaches."
https://www.visittheusa.co.uk/
I suspect that they wanted the 51% guaranteed shares, then they would then borrow the money and then put the debt onto the books of the Dale, so they have achieved the ownership and it would have cost them nothing.
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BREAKING NEWS: No selling shareholder has yet received ANY cash from Alexander J on 18:54 - Aug 4 with 1417 views
BREAKING NEWS: No selling shareholder has yet received ANY cash from Alexander J on 17:54 - Aug 4 by NorthernDale
I suspect that they wanted the 51% guaranteed shares, then they would then borrow the money and then put the debt onto the books of the Dale, so they have achieved the ownership and it would have cost them nothing.
Completely agree.
That is how it has been done at York, Wrexham, bury and many other lower league clubs.
Leave the football league club with the debts to manage and to hell with the consequences.
Interesting that not one of the selling shareholders has come out to justify why they have thought about selling to these people.
Andrew Kilpatrick would be the main one. His father would turn in his grave if he know what his son had done divesting his shares to parties who did not have the club's long term best interests at heart.
George Bernard Shaw had it right:
"He who can does; he who cannot, teaches."
https://www.visittheusa.co.uk/
BREAKING NEWS: No selling shareholder has yet received ANY cash from Alexander J on 18:54 - Aug 4 by RAFCBLUE
Completely agree.
That is how it has been done at York, Wrexham, bury and many other lower league clubs.
Leave the football league club with the debts to manage and to hell with the consequences.
Interesting that not one of the selling shareholders has come out to justify why they have thought about selling to these people.
Andrew Kilpatrick would be the main one. His father would turn in his grave if he know what his son had done divesting his shares to parties who did not have the club's long term best interests at heart.
I am now more worried than ever after tonights forum, especially the proxy vote malarky and the news that the shares the trust were buying with the Cloughie legacy hasn't gone through due to some legality problems....
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