| Russia invade Ukraine 14:17 - Dec 23 with 174407 views | Flynnidine_Zidownes |
Discuss.
Also why is Putin always described in the media as this rugged strongman? He’s barely five foot tall with his high heels on.
But that’s another debate.
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| Will Russia invade Ukraine? on 16:16 - Jan 28 with 1399 views | bennytheblue |
| Will Russia invade Ukraine? on 17:25 - Jan 27 by controversial_jack |
There were many factors that contributed to the Germans defeat. The greatest was attrition. Russia simply had too much for them. Better equipment, more troops, shorter supply lines, better winter clothing, vehicles that didn't freeze, and tanks that could move better over muddy ground , and pure hatred and the need for revenge. Also fear of Stalin and his wrath if they ran away |
Didn’t 20 million Russians die on that front though? And 2 million Germans? Something crazy like that anyway….we don’t hear much about the eastern front battles but that one is a fascinating one.
Just got Stalingrad to read now |  | | |
| Will Russia invade Ukraine? on 17:03 - Jan 28 with 1368 views | controversial_jack |
| Will Russia invade Ukraine? on 16:16 - Jan 28 by bennytheblue |
Didn’t 20 million Russians die on that front though? And 2 million Germans? Something crazy like that anyway….we don’t hear much about the eastern front battles but that one is a fascinating one.
Just got Stalingrad to read now |
it wasn't 20 million, but in the millions for both sides. It basically decided the course of the war. The red army basically defeated the NAZIS. Yes, they had assistance in supplies and armaments etc, and the Allies on the western front took away many German forces from Russia, but the Germans were well on the retreat by the time we opened up a second front in the west and Italy .
We don't hear a great deal from the Eastern front, because it doesn't fit the, America won the war, or Britain stood alone narrative. Whatever ppl think of the Russians, they paid dearly in sacrifices. | | | |
| Will Russia invade Ukraine? on 17:25 - Jan 28 with 1359 views | trampie |
| Will Russia invade Ukraine? on 17:03 - Jan 28 by controversial_jack |
it wasn't 20 million, but in the millions for both sides. It basically decided the course of the war. The red army basically defeated the NAZIS. Yes, they had assistance in supplies and armaments etc, and the Allies on the western front took away many German forces from Russia, but the Germans were well on the retreat by the time we opened up a second front in the west and Italy .
We don't hear a great deal from the Eastern front, because it doesn't fit the, America won the war, or Britain stood alone narrative. Whatever ppl think of the Russians, they paid dearly in sacrifices. |
Russia did most to win the war, people should not listen to corrupt Western propoganda. |  |
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| Will Russia invade Ukraine? on 17:45 - Jan 28 with 1350 views | Flynnidine_Zidownes |
| Will Russia invade Ukraine? on 17:03 - Jan 28 by controversial_jack |
it wasn't 20 million, but in the millions for both sides. It basically decided the course of the war. The red army basically defeated the NAZIS. Yes, they had assistance in supplies and armaments etc, and the Allies on the western front took away many German forces from Russia, but the Germans were well on the retreat by the time we opened up a second front in the west and Italy .
We don't hear a great deal from the Eastern front, because it doesn't fit the, America won the war, or Britain stood alone narrative. Whatever ppl think of the Russians, they paid dearly in sacrifices. |
The best estimate is 30 million dead but that includes civilians who bore much of the brunt of it. The USSR did also get a lot of naval and air support from us and other western powers but you’re right they made far more sacrifices than any other country and did give more for victory. Arguably they are still feeling the cost now, their population remains remarkably low for such a massive country. | | | |
| Will Russia invade Ukraine? on 18:15 - Jan 28 with 1342 views | Catullus |
| Will Russia invade Ukraine? on 17:03 - Jan 28 by controversial_jack |
it wasn't 20 million, but in the millions for both sides. It basically decided the course of the war. The red army basically defeated the NAZIS. Yes, they had assistance in supplies and armaments etc, and the Allies on the western front took away many German forces from Russia, but the Germans were well on the retreat by the time we opened up a second front in the west and Italy .
We don't hear a great deal from the Eastern front, because it doesn't fit the, America won the war, or Britain stood alone narrative. Whatever ppl think of the Russians, they paid dearly in sacrifices. |
We did stand alone, for 2 years. The Russians joined the Allies in June 1941. The Germans lost approx 700k troops but inflicted losses 10 times greater before the tide turned. In the first 2 days they destroyed over 2000 Russian aircraft. Don't take my word for it, here,
https://www.history.com/news/8-things-you-should-know-about-wwiis-eastern-front
The turning point in the Eastern front was when Stalingrad was encircled and the German troops cut off. Hitler refused to allow an attempt at retreat which cost him over 300,000 men. This was when the retreat was forced,
https://www.britannica.com/event/World-War-II/Stalingrad-and-the-German-retreat-
Anybody who says Russia OR the USA OR the UK/GB won the war is wrong, we all won it together. If all of Hitlers' forces were ranged against just one of the three, the outcome would have been very different. For example, if Hitler had invaded and conquered the Uk then the US had no staging post and couldn't have built up so many troops and materiel for the D Day landings, Germany would have been pretty safe from US action and could have sent millions of men to the east..
Not taking Britain out of the equation was his first and possibly his biggest mistake, the next biggy was turning on Russia with Britain still standing. Hitler should have stopped japan attacking the USA until he'd conquered Europe. Once Russia and the USA were in the war there was only one outcome.
Of course the heroes of Telemark made a huge contribution, if Hitler had gotten nukes maybe none of us would be here now.
There are so many differing opinions and possibilities though. None of us can be sure we're right. | |
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| Will Russia invade Ukraine? on 18:36 - Jan 28 with 1335 views | Catullus |
| Will Russia invade Ukraine? on 22:25 - Jan 27 by trampie |
Didn't the Americans only stop dropping atomic bombs on civilians when the Japanese gave up.
One story of the blitz of British/German cities was the Germans were bombing British military targets and then a lone German bomber accidentally dropped bombs on London, the story goes that Churchill was just waiting for a chance to justify bombing German civilians and we bombed Berlin the very next day, Hitler then retaliated by bombing British civilians, it was a strange thing going on between the English and Germans, at times they didn't seem to want war with each other, Hitler might have wanted a non aggression pact with the English/British.
I wonder what Lohengrin thinks, when it comes to British military involvement he might have a bit of a blind spot but it would be interesting to see what he has to say on the subject.
Hitler no doubt would have used the atomic bomb on peoples he didn't like, if they were losing, when his mental health got worse, there again America used the bomb when they were winning, but in fairness the Japanese weren't giving up and the bombs might have saved a lot of allied servicemen's lives . |
Nah, the USA planned to drop 2 bombs then Japan surrendered, there was no need for more.
You're wrong about bombing civilians too. Churchill gave a direct order to start doing it in May 1940. For all his atrocities elsewhere he was not keen on bombing civilians and it was a while before he retaliated in kind. Later the British, in the face of a disapproving public, put out propaganda saying the Germans had done it first.
https://barnesreview.org/who-started-the-bombing-of-civilians-in-wwii/ | |
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| Will Russia invade Ukraine? on 18:52 - Jan 28 with 1317 views | trampie |
Churchill for all his atrocities elsewhere he was not keen on bombing civilians you say yet the article says he sanctioned saturation bombing of civilians first, why the English think Churchill is a hero is beyond me, a lot of Welsh think he was a blood thirsty racist maniac.
I think Warsaw and Rotterdam was civilian bombing by the Germans the article makes an excuse for it, there was no excuse I know the English ridiculously inflated the death toll at Rotterdam, don't believe the propaganda only the evidence I say, leaders in London are past masters at pulling the wool over the populations eyes. | |
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| Will Russia invade Ukraine? on 21:21 - Jan 28 with 1279 views | controversial_jack |
| Will Russia invade Ukraine? on 18:52 - Jan 28 by trampie |
Churchill for all his atrocities elsewhere he was not keen on bombing civilians you say yet the article says he sanctioned saturation bombing of civilians first, why the English think Churchill is a hero is beyond me, a lot of Welsh think he was a blood thirsty racist maniac.
I think Warsaw and Rotterdam was civilian bombing by the Germans the article makes an excuse for it, there was no excuse I know the English ridiculously inflated the death toll at Rotterdam, don't believe the propaganda only the evidence I say, leaders in London are past masters at pulling the wool over the populations eyes. |
Churchill was a throw back to the Victorian age. He was first and foremost an Imperialist.He was more concerned with protecting British interests in the middle East and the far east than he was for helping Russia defeat the Germans. It was the Empire first for him.
He was also more concerned about the Bolsheviks than he was about the NAZIS. He didn't seem to be that concerned about the Eastern front and was more than happy to send troops off to places Like Greece and Yugoslavia
Stalin almost begged us t send more aid and to open up a second front in the West.Stalin also wanted Britain to declare war on Finland, because they were aiding the NAZIs.
I fail to see how Churchill is seen as this great saviour of Britain | | | |
| Will Russia invade Ukraine? on 21:30 - Jan 28 with 1267 views | trampie |
| Will Russia invade Ukraine? on 21:21 - Jan 28 by controversial_jack |
Churchill was a throw back to the Victorian age. He was first and foremost an Imperialist.He was more concerned with protecting British interests in the middle East and the far east than he was for helping Russia defeat the Germans. It was the Empire first for him.
He was also more concerned about the Bolsheviks than he was about the NAZIS. He didn't seem to be that concerned about the Eastern front and was more than happy to send troops off to places Like Greece and Yugoslavia
Stalin almost begged us t send more aid and to open up a second front in the West.Stalin also wanted Britain to declare war on Finland, because they were aiding the NAZIs.
I fail to see how Churchill is seen as this great saviour of Britain |
Good post, my take is the same. | |
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| Will Russia invade Ukraine? on 21:33 - Jan 28 with 1259 views | controversial_jack |
I disagree, the turning point was when they failed to take Moscow and were driven back in disorderly retreat. It wasn't the end of the German army by a long way, but it was their Verdun and showed the Russians that the Germans were not supermen. Stalingrad, of course was highly significant, but they only took 300k prisoners. there were many fierce battles that occurred after this and they could have gone either way.
Yes, Britain did go it alone for a while and if we had fallen it would have been a staging post for the Germans to attack the US, as they would;d have taken possession of our Navy.
I'm not saying the Russians did it all alone and maybe if the Germans didn't have troops elsewhere,the outcome would have been more uncertain, but the Red army broke the back of the German forces and eventually pushed them all the way back to Berlin and defeated them there.
The Allies in the West could not have done what the Russians did.The Red army was unstoppable, which is why Eisenhower stopped the allies advance over the Elba and into Germany, without consulting Churchill or Monty. | | | |
| Will Russia invade Ukraine? on 11:40 - Jan 29 with 1206 views | Catullus |
| Will Russia invade Ukraine? on 18:52 - Jan 28 by trampie |
Churchill for all his atrocities elsewhere he was not keen on bombing civilians you say yet the article says he sanctioned saturation bombing of civilians first, why the English think Churchill is a hero is beyond me, a lot of Welsh think he was a blood thirsty racist maniac.
I think Warsaw and Rotterdam was civilian bombing by the Germans the article makes an excuse for it, there was no excuse I know the English ridiculously inflated the death toll at Rotterdam, don't believe the propaganda only the evidence I say, leaders in London are past masters at pulling the wool over the populations eyes. |
I somehow missed out the name Hitler in one of those sentences but others seem to have understood. It was Hitler who retaliated, Churchill was hardly likely to retaliate against himself, think about it!
The bombings of Rotterdam and Warsaw were put down as "in support of direct military action" and not simply terror bombing of a civilian population. Can you see the difference?
Don't believe the propaganda you say, only the evidence, well I provided evidence but all you do is criticise the English, basically you spread anti English propaganda. | |
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| Will Russia invade Ukraine? on 12:33 - Jan 29 with 1198 views | controversial_jack |
Bombing German cities was a big mistake. It didn't lower their moral and break their economy, and the huge resources used could have been been used elsewhere | | | |
| Will Russia invade Ukraine? on 12:46 - Jan 29 with 1195 views | Lohengrin |
| Will Russia invade Ukraine? on 21:21 - Jan 28 by controversial_jack |
Churchill was a throw back to the Victorian age. He was first and foremost an Imperialist.He was more concerned with protecting British interests in the middle East and the far east than he was for helping Russia defeat the Germans. It was the Empire first for him.
He was also more concerned about the Bolsheviks than he was about the NAZIS. He didn't seem to be that concerned about the Eastern front and was more than happy to send troops off to places Like Greece and Yugoslavia
Stalin almost begged us t send more aid and to open up a second front in the West.Stalin also wanted Britain to declare war on Finland, because they were aiding the NAZIs.
I fail to see how Churchill is seen as this great saviour of Britain |
” Stalin also wanted Britain to declare war on Finland, because they were aiding the NAZIs.”
You must know what a ridiculous statement that is!  |  |
| An idea isn't responsible for those who believe in it. |
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| Will Russia invade Ukraine? on 14:07 - Jan 29 with 1171 views | Ajack_Kerouac |
So Biden had a shocker of a phone call with the President of Ukraine, Zelensky.
Jake Tapper at CNN initially tried to report this, but then CNN took his story down.
We are not allowed to hear the full transcript of the call...even though when Trump had a controversial phone call with President of Ukraine we were treated to the full transcript and a misinformation campaign based on snippets (This was given as the reason for Trump's 1st impeachment remember - don't be a goldfish, try and keep track, it's the only way you can see through their lies).
The upshot of this telephone conversation is President Zelensky and his officials are now openly criticising Biden in public.
Guess how the criminal, corrupt, Biden regime will deal with this?
Biden Chief of Staff Ron Klain is planning to start leaking and pushing a narrative that Zelensky is 'compromised' by the Russians.
To these people, reality doesn't exist, reality is a construction, created with language.
Remember that. |  |
| "It's what people know about themselves inside that makes them afraid" - "In a time of universal deceit, telling the truth is a revolutionary act" - "The further a society drifts from truth the more it will hate those who speak it" |
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| Will Russia invade Ukraine? on 15:49 - Jan 29 with 1158 views | Catullus |
| Will Russia invade Ukraine? on 12:33 - Jan 29 by controversial_jack |
Bombing German cities was a big mistake. It didn't lower their moral and break their economy, and the huge resources used could have been been used elsewhere |
In bombing the cities Churchill drove Hitler to decide to stop attacking our airfields and attack our cities instead. This gave the RAF vital time to repair the airfields, to replenish them, not forgetting Hitler had promised no bombs would fall on Berlin,
http://www.strangehistory.net/2010/08/24/24-august-1940-the-night-that-hitler-lo
Not really a mistake then, more another turning point in favour of the allies. Without it happening we may have lost the battle of Britain. | |
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| Will Russia invade Ukraine? on 17:33 - Jan 29 with 1134 views | trampie |
I was agreeing with controversial jack's first paragraph about Churchill, my take as well. | |
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| Will Russia invade Ukraine? on 17:53 - Jan 29 with 1122 views | controversial_jack |
| Will Russia invade Ukraine? on 12:46 - Jan 29 by Lohengrin |
” Stalin also wanted Britain to declare war on Finland, because they were aiding the NAZIs.”
You must know what a ridiculous statement that is! |
No, it's the truth as Finland was allied to the Germans and was a threat to the Baltic states and Russia's northern lands.
Churchill was reluctant as he was great friends with their President. He did write to him and say it was a possibility which he regretted, but It didn't come to anything, because Churchill as usual was distracted by events elsewhere | | | |
| Will Russia invade Ukraine? on 18:04 - Jan 29 with 1118 views | Lohengrin |
| Will Russia invade Ukraine? on 17:53 - Jan 29 by controversial_jack |
No, it's the truth as Finland was allied to the Germans and was a threat to the Baltic states and Russia's northern lands.
Churchill was reluctant as he was great friends with their President. He did write to him and say it was a possibility which he regretted, but It didn't come to anything, because Churchill as usual was distracted by events elsewhere |
You misunderstand me. You do know the chain of circumstance that led to Finland accepting German assistance, I take it?
Had Britain declared war on Finland it would have been an obscenity, utterly depraved. | |
| An idea isn't responsible for those who believe in it. |
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| Will Russia invade Ukraine? on 18:15 - Jan 29 with 1112 views | howenjack |
Didn't the signing of the non aggression pact give Stalin the green light to invade Finland ? The Finns though gave as good as they got if the history books are correct. | | | |
| Will Russia invade Ukraine? on 18:26 - Jan 29 with 1109 views | Lohengrin |
| Will Russia invade Ukraine? on 18:15 - Jan 29 by howenjack |
Didn't the signing of the non aggression pact give Stalin the green light to invade Finland ? The Finns though gave as good as they got if the history books are correct. |
No, mate. The Ribbentrop-Molotov Pact of August, ‘39 makes no mention of Finland,
The Soviet-Finnish Non-Aggression Pact of January ‘32 collapsed when Stalin had the Karelian village of Mainila shelled then falsely accused the Finns as a pretext for the Red invasion. | |
| An idea isn't responsible for those who believe in it. |
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| Will Russia invade Ukraine? on 22:51 - Jan 29 with 1059 views | Catullus |
| Will Russia invade Ukraine? on 17:53 - Jan 29 by controversial_jack |
No, it's the truth as Finland was allied to the Germans and was a threat to the Baltic states and Russia's northern lands.
Churchill was reluctant as he was great friends with their President. He did write to him and say it was a possibility which he regretted, but It didn't come to anything, because Churchill as usual was distracted by events elsewhere |
The Finns had to fight off a Russian invasion, then sided with Germany against the Russians before eventually joining the Allies to fight the Nazi's.
Any Jews or refugees who made it to Finland were safe.
I don't think they agreed with Germany as much as it was a case of my enemies enemy is my friend.
Churchill held the same kind of opinion about Stalin, he would have got into bed with the devil if it meant defeating the Nazi's, I believe he said as much. | |
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