| DOF 14:59 - Feb 24 with 8448 views | The_Mole |
After watching TF recent interview for Sky Sports, moving forward, as we're no doubt writing off this season, the question is, do we really need a director of football to progress?
Forget whether you love or hate LF, is that position a bit of a waste when you have a hands on chairman/shareholders and supposedly the best CEO in the division? |  | | |  |
| DOF on 15:06 - Feb 24 with 5182 views | WilloW4 |
I can't imagine there's a R's fan who hates Les Ferdinand .!? |  | | |
| DOF on 15:07 - Feb 24 with 5194 views | Neil_SI |
Given the lack of experience and quality in terms of football acumen at shareholder level, then yes, you can argue the Director of Football role is vital here.
The definition of "hands on" is also crucial, because it can cause a lot of problems if it's the wrong kind of hands on, which for us, has generally been the case over the years. The wrong kind of hands on can cause problems for the entire club, including the CEO and DOF.
The buck always stops with the owners and the problem with these things is the vast majority of CEOs and DOFs are employed by owners to carry out their mandate. We've had a bit of this in the past, but there's always hope that the people we have in these roles now can also help educate those above them about doing things well and properly.
When you have someone who cares about the club in that role, it's crucial. We have that in Les Ferdinand in the DOF role, but he still has to find that balance of trying to do as his bosses wish, and what he believes and knows is right for the health of the football club. |  | | |
| DOF on 15:07 - Feb 24 with 5185 views | WadR |
No, because the jobs of CEO, Chairman and DoF are all distinct and necessary IMO. Les is presumably in charge of contract negotiations and will be heavily involved in player and staff recruitment. Given there's been so many complaints over the last 4/5 years about the upper management of the club being a soft-touch and not having enough football experience, Ferdinand's history in the game and at the club is surely a massive bonus. |  | | |
| DOF on 16:08 - Feb 24 with 5087 views | Northernr |
I must say, I’m intrigued which bit of this board’s record over the past five years, gives you the confidence to say we need fewer people like Les Ferdinand to run the club because they’re so hands on. Even Fernandes says he can’t defend his record, surely the more people like Hoos and Ferdinand we have between him and the tiller the better?
Still think Ferdinand is doing a good job. |  | | |
| DOF on 17:17 - Feb 24 with 4994 views | TheBlob |
Have never seen the point of a DOF and nothing has happened to change my mind. |  |
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| DOF on 17:29 - Feb 24 with 4962 views | TacticalR |
To DoF or not to DoF, that is the question.
Managers are changing so rapidly in the Championship that DoFs or some form of equivalent are inevitable.
Of course not all DoFs are created equal...Newcastle ended up with Joe Kinnear as DoF. |  |
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| DOF on 18:04 - Feb 24 with 4885 views | bosh67 |
It's a question of time and expectation. Even I have questioned Sir Les on certain decisions but it's mainly because we live in an instant society these days.
The worst thing that happened this season was the board saying they needed promotion. I think most fans would have settled for the idea of being in the Championship for some time, building a more sustainable and ethically better team and club.
Now that this is the case everyone has lost patience. But the club does need to learn from its mistakes. TF has managed to expunge most of the debt his board created in doing it the wrong way and seems to have seen the light.
Les is a Spurs fan but QPR is in his blood. I think he understands what we need to be and that is good enough for me. If the board had never made the promotion statement the whole attitude of the fan base would have been different.
I've been going for 45 years, since I was 3, I crawled in. I am much more comfortable with things as they are and with the idea that this club will bring through young talent and talent that is hungry from lower leagues. That is the QPR way over many decades. If TF said I am going to modernise Loftus Road and get this stadium back up to the 25,000+ mark (which is doable with clever redesign) then most fans would have a hooped orgasm.
Much happier with the direction of philosophy the club is adopting than I have been over the last 5 years. The main thing is getting the way we play football right and the personnel that plays it right. |  |
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| DOF on 18:48 - Feb 24 with 4813 views | Northernr |
| DOF on 17:17 - Feb 24 by TheBlob |
Have never seen the point of a DOF and nothing has happened to change my mind. |
I think exactly the opposite. More and more football clubs are being bought by rich foreigners who have absolutely no idea about the club, the league, or English football in general other than there's lots of TV money on offer and international exposure if you get to the premier league and lots of people watch it in their homeland.
At the same time, players and agents are more unscrupulous than ever, not afraid to take said rich foreign idiots to the cleaners with huge contracts for mediocre players.
And at the same time as that, the lifespan of a manager is shorter than it's ever been, so no manager is ever going to sit there and plan what's best for your club three years down the line. They're just going to want to buy proven players right now, and always want three more of them, so they don't lose the next four matches and get the sack.
For those three reasons now, more than ever, it's important to have someone between the manager and the rich foreign chairman who actually knows a bit about football. | | | |
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| DOF on 19:29 - Feb 24 with 4746 views | TheBlob |
| DOF on 18:48 - Feb 24 by Northernr |
I think exactly the opposite. More and more football clubs are being bought by rich foreigners who have absolutely no idea about the club, the league, or English football in general other than there's lots of TV money on offer and international exposure if you get to the premier league and lots of people watch it in their homeland.
At the same time, players and agents are more unscrupulous than ever, not afraid to take said rich foreign idiots to the cleaners with huge contracts for mediocre players.
And at the same time as that, the lifespan of a manager is shorter than it's ever been, so no manager is ever going to sit there and plan what's best for your club three years down the line. They're just going to want to buy proven players right now, and always want three more of them, so they don't lose the next four matches and get the sack.
For those three reasons now, more than ever, it's important to have someone between the manager and the rich foreign chairman who actually knows a bit about football. |
"Too many cooks spoileth the broth"  | |
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| DOF on 21:17 - Feb 24 with 4624 views | daveB |
| DOF on 19:29 - Feb 24 by TheBlob |
"Too many cooks spoileth the broth" |
The alternative to a DOF is to have a ceo who has no idea about football making football decsions. Ot makes far more sense to have an expert in finances and running that side of a football club in charge of that side of the club and a football man in charge of the football side overseeing the academy, scouting and first team manager.
It works really well at a lot of clubs, would see Les or whoever is in the role bringing in players than Beard and Fernandes.
For me Ferdinand is doing an excellent job and the abuse he gets on social media is incredible, i've seen people call him the worst thing to ever happen to the club which is mind blowing |  | | |
| DOF on 21:21 - Feb 24 with 4613 views | TheBlob |
| DOF on 18:48 - Feb 24 by Northernr |
I think exactly the opposite. More and more football clubs are being bought by rich foreigners who have absolutely no idea about the club, the league, or English football in general other than there's lots of TV money on offer and international exposure if you get to the premier league and lots of people watch it in their homeland.
At the same time, players and agents are more unscrupulous than ever, not afraid to take said rich foreign idiots to the cleaners with huge contracts for mediocre players.
And at the same time as that, the lifespan of a manager is shorter than it's ever been, so no manager is ever going to sit there and plan what's best for your club three years down the line. They're just going to want to buy proven players right now, and always want three more of them, so they don't lose the next four matches and get the sack.
For those three reasons now, more than ever, it's important to have someone between the manager and the rich foreign chairman who actually knows a bit about football. |
Having reflected further it occurs that non- football savvy owners/chairmen haven't exactly been a novelty in the game and have rather been the norm.This whole DOF phenomenon seems to be some convenient PR exercise.It reminds me of the Appendix.Something/someone thought was a good idea at the time,the function of which is not entirely clear and you're looking for excuses to remove it before it almost inevitably becomes toxic.The DOF is one such redundant organ imho. | |
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| DOF on 21:27 - Feb 24 with 4595 views | TheBlob |
| DOF on 21:17 - Feb 24 by daveB |
The alternative to a DOF is to have a ceo who has no idea about football making football decsions. Ot makes far more sense to have an expert in finances and running that side of a football club in charge of that side of the club and a football man in charge of the football side overseeing the academy, scouting and first team manager.
It works really well at a lot of clubs, would see Les or whoever is in the role bringing in players than Beard and Fernandes.
For me Ferdinand is doing an excellent job and the abuse he gets on social media is incredible, i've seen people call him the worst thing to ever happen to the club which is mind blowing |
I would rather see an experienced manager bringing in the players,an astute negotiator like Barry Fry hasn't needed a middleman.I think we're looking for ways to deify someone and it might backfire horribly if the chemistry isn't right.Murphy's Law writ large. | |
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| DOF on 21:34 - Feb 24 with 4580 views | daveB |
| DOF on 21:27 - Feb 24 by TheBlob |
I would rather see an experienced manager bringing in the players,an astute negotiator like Barry Fry hasn't needed a middleman.I think we're looking for ways to deify someone and it might backfire horribly if the chemistry isn't right.Murphy's Law writ large. |
Barry Fry is the middleman these days. I think when managers were building a club in their image and given years to buld from youth up there was no need for a dof but that has changed now.
Clubs like Southampton have shown the way to go with Les Reed in the DOF role they have a scouting department under him which is scouting players and future managers so when the current boss goes they have a good idea who they want, same with players. If QPR were to leave it all to JFH the academy would be ignored as JFH is only being judged on first team results and players being signed would be for now rather than lookign at potential players for the next 2/3 years so we'd are back to how we were under Redknapp which everyone moaned about | | | |
| DOF on 21:39 - Feb 24 with 4566 views | TheBlob |
| DOF on 21:34 - Feb 24 by daveB |
Barry Fry is the middleman these days. I think when managers were building a club in their image and given years to buld from youth up there was no need for a dof but that has changed now.
Clubs like Southampton have shown the way to go with Les Reed in the DOF role they have a scouting department under him which is scouting players and future managers so when the current boss goes they have a good idea who they want, same with players. If QPR were to leave it all to JFH the academy would be ignored as JFH is only being judged on first team results and players being signed would be for now rather than lookign at potential players for the next 2/3 years so we'd are back to how we were under Redknapp which everyone moaned about |
Well in that case there seems to be more riding on Les than the Kentucky Derby.
I'm not at all confident. [Post edited 24 Feb 2016 21:46]
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| DOF on 22:10 - Feb 24 with 4492 views | Boston |
| DOF on 21:39 - Feb 24 by TheBlob |
Well in that case there seems to be more riding on Les than the Kentucky Derby.
I'm not at all confident. [Post edited 24 Feb 2016 21:46]
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He's no mug, not yet anyway. | |
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| DOF on 22:14 - Feb 24 with 4487 views | THEBUSH |
From what I've seen so far of Les Ferdinand, I think he's doing a good job for us.
Imo we needed someone like Les as our DOF.
Perhaps other football clubs don't need a DOF, but TF certainly needed help, anyway that's my opinion. |  | | |
| DOF on 23:12 - Feb 24 with 4385 views | derbyhoop |
A lot depends on the chemistry between the manager/1st team coach and the DOF. It strikes me that Les' responsibilities cover scouting, coaching below first team level, and recruitment, freeing up JFH to concentrate on the first team squad.
Les will also be involved with Warren Farm and liaison with the owners. I think, at the moment, it's working as well as it could. |  |
| Travel is fatal to prejudice, bigotry and narrow-mindedness, and many of our people need it sorely on these accounts. Broad, wholesome, charitable views of men and things cannot be acquired by vegetating in one little corner of the Earth all one’s lifetime. (Mark Twain)
Find me on twitter @derbyhoop |
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| DOF on 23:15 - Feb 24 with 4378 views | The_Mole |
I have to agree largely with Blob on this.
A club of our size and stature surely doesn't need a CEO and a DOF along with a manager/head coach?
I understand this is the way football is going but surely this will only create problems between the DOF and manager long term, unless of course Les keeps appointing his mates 😠| | | |
| DOF on 23:57 - Feb 24 with 4336 views | daveB |
| DOF on 21:39 - Feb 24 by TheBlob |
Well in that case there seems to be more riding on Les than the Kentucky Derby.
I'm not at all confident. [Post edited 24 Feb 2016 21:46]
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of course a lot riding on him but thats the case whoever is in the role, so far he's done pretty well | | | |
| DOF on 23:59 - Feb 24 with 4334 views | daveB |
| DOF on 23:15 - Feb 24 by The_Mole |
I have to agree largely with Blob on this.
A club of our size and stature surely doesn't need a CEO and a DOF along with a manager/head coach?
I understand this is the way football is going but surely this will only create problems between the DOF and manager long term, unless of course Les keeps appointing his mates 😠|
it's the only ay a club our size can be expected to compete, most clubs our size who have done well have a CEO and a DOF. | | | |
| DOF on 07:11 - Feb 25 with 4250 views | DylanP |
There are two sides to the work of a traditional football manager; preparing the players to win matches, and the business side of running a club (buying and selling players and so on). There is no obvious connection between the skills needed to succeed at the two sides of the job; Being good at one says nothing about whether you would be good at the other. Splitting the two parts of the job frees up the manager to focus on the players and the team, to really coach them and develop them, and so on. Of course, English football has stuck with that old model for much too long. We are slow to progress and there are always going to be some who think its unnecessary. But I think it is about time QPR acted like a team that wanted to build a successful team and no just struggle on year after year.
More than that, I think that people who forget the legend that is Sir Les, forget the culture of the club, the legacy of the man, and the true meaning of football. Sir Les. Not LF. Not Ferd. His name is Sir Les and he will always be a legend to me. I cannot fcking stand people who claim to be fans but disrespect one of the greatest legends of our club. Disagree with him, disapprove of the job he is doing. All that is fine. But do it with respect. After all Sir Les has done for QPR, he has earned the right to be respected. |  |
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| DOF on 08:28 - Feb 25 with 4171 views | TheBlob |
| DOF on 07:11 - Feb 25 by DylanP |
There are two sides to the work of a traditional football manager; preparing the players to win matches, and the business side of running a club (buying and selling players and so on). There is no obvious connection between the skills needed to succeed at the two sides of the job; Being good at one says nothing about whether you would be good at the other. Splitting the two parts of the job frees up the manager to focus on the players and the team, to really coach them and develop them, and so on. Of course, English football has stuck with that old model for much too long. We are slow to progress and there are always going to be some who think its unnecessary. But I think it is about time QPR acted like a team that wanted to build a successful team and no just struggle on year after year.
More than that, I think that people who forget the legend that is Sir Les, forget the culture of the club, the legacy of the man, and the true meaning of football. Sir Les. Not LF. Not Ferd. His name is Sir Les and he will always be a legend to me. I cannot fcking stand people who claim to be fans but disrespect one of the greatest legends of our club. Disagree with him, disapprove of the job he is doing. All that is fine. But do it with respect. After all Sir Les has done for QPR, he has earned the right to be respected. |
Oh dear,another lecture on morality.Because one has gained respect as a player it doesn't necessarily follow into other enterprises - Gerry Francis found out that automatic deification doesn't happen.There's a huge amount of wish fulfillment here and there's not a lot of concrete proof. | |
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| DOF on 08:46 - Feb 25 with 4154 views | 1BobbyHazell |
Prior to having Les as a director of football we lost a quarter of a billion pounds (basically on fees and wages) in four years because Tone was listening to the likes of Joorabchian, Rigg, Beard, Hughes and Redknapp, none of whom gave a flying f*ck about the long term future of QPR or even had the ability to give it short term success. Not a single one of their signings remains as a pillar to build the club around.
And yet some people genuinely (I'm excluding Mr Mole from this as he is a blatant troll) can't see what a DOF brings to the club!
Bizarre.
Sure, there are some clubs that have built recent success around the power of a single manager ie Howe at Bournemouth. But a club like that is more likely to fail again when he leaves, as opposed to teams like Southampton and Swansea that retain the knowledge, philosophy and working practices of their success through a strong DOF and his staff. |  | | |
| DOF on 09:11 - Feb 25 with 4125 views | TheBlob |
| DOF on 08:46 - Feb 25 by 1BobbyHazell |
Prior to having Les as a director of football we lost a quarter of a billion pounds (basically on fees and wages) in four years because Tone was listening to the likes of Joorabchian, Rigg, Beard, Hughes and Redknapp, none of whom gave a flying f*ck about the long term future of QPR or even had the ability to give it short term success. Not a single one of their signings remains as a pillar to build the club around.
And yet some people genuinely (I'm excluding Mr Mole from this as he is a blatant troll) can't see what a DOF brings to the club!
Bizarre.
Sure, there are some clubs that have built recent success around the power of a single manager ie Howe at Bournemouth. But a club like that is more likely to fail again when he leaves, as opposed to teams like Southampton and Swansea that retain the knowledge, philosophy and working practices of their success through a strong DOF and his staff. |
Why are differing views "bizarre"?You'd better hope that Saints and Swansea keep on performing to cement your statements.
That's the beauty of The Future,it never arrives and one conveniently dismisses The Present although(if you look around) there's shitloads of that.
You'd better also hope that TF is here for a long term,he probably won't be with his Malaysian exposure and having upset the wrong people along the way,and new owners have a tendency to install their own regimes. | |
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| DOF on 09:33 - Feb 25 with 4104 views | 1BobbyHazell |
| DOF on 09:11 - Feb 25 by TheBlob |
Why are differing views "bizarre"?You'd better hope that Saints and Swansea keep on performing to cement your statements.
That's the beauty of The Future,it never arrives and one conveniently dismisses The Present although(if you look around) there's shitloads of that.
You'd better also hope that TF is here for a long term,he probably won't be with his Malaysian exposure and having upset the wrong people along the way,and new owners have a tendency to install their own regimes. |
Different views are not bizarre. For the reasons explained I find that particular viewpoint bizarre. I'm more than happy for you to reply to the points I've made to change my mind.
I've no need for Swansea and Southampton to keep performing to prove anything. They have already proved it with what can only be described as performances, on and off the pitch, from a different universe compared to ours over the last few years. Some of the fundamental differences in how their clubs have been run compared to ours are fairly obvious. As are the results. In that period they have both changed managers several times, and yet continued to retain their Premier League status, win trophies, play in Europe, make a profit (!!!) and in Southampton's case lost their manager and their 6 best players and had an even better season the next year.
Obviously their continued success is not guaranteed, how could it be? Equally there is no guarantee that Les or any director of football will bring us any sort of success. But should we get rid of Les because, as the OP suggested, we have a 'hands-on chairman'?!! Obviously not. | | | |
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