| The Defence: A Thought 16:39 - Sep 14 with 3649 views | Antti_Heinola |
Was thinking about defence over the weekend.
There's a sort of wisdom been building up, not without its own evidence, that Warbs 'cannot organise a defence.'
It's an interesting thing when you line it up against other thoughts that we as fans have in general. For example, I think most of us probably think that when it comes to coaching, 'organising a defence is the basics, playing lovely attacking football is really hard.'
But why do we think, generally, that defending should be more simple? Should be something that can be fixed in training relatively easily? Why do we attach less skill to that? There's a sense that you should just be able to 'practise' 'defending' in training and it'll work out next week. You don't ever get fans saying, 'why don't you practise free-flowing passing attacking moves in traning that might help us watch you score amazing goals?' The closest we get to that is telling our strikers to practise shooting all week. But why is the specific skill of shooting put in the same category as literally all defending? When a team can't score goals it's generally blamed on the attackers lacking creativity or because the striker can't hit a barn door with a banjo. When a team lets in too many, the manager can't organise a defence. Why does a manager get blamed more for one than the other? I'm not saying this is hard and fast, but just saying generally.
I was thinking about this at the weekend as I watched the very enjoyable Liverpool-Leeds game, and I had forgotten that Klopp, too, received the same criticisms once upon a time as Warbs gets now (not comparing them - just saying similar criticisms were levelled). Luckily, Klopp is a great coach so he fixed it. You know, by spending £75m on Van Dijk and another £68m on Allison. Plus the emergence of the excellent Trent. And, at least until Saturday, those accusations went away. But he solved the problem by buying big. Same with Guardiola. He is constantly criticised for his defence not being strong enough, but the answer is not in his coaching, but in the fact that people believe he needs to buy better defenders.
Now conceding more than 70 goals in a season isn't good enough, but is our perception of coaching a defensive unit a little off? The two best coaches in the country have similar ideas to Warbs in terms of attacking football, high press, play from the back, etc etc, and both of them have had issues at the back. I suppose what I was thinking was two things: is all Warbs needs a CB (maybe it's Dickie) and a keeper and maybe a left back away from having those accusations quelled? And, perhaps more importantly, does this magical coach who can deliver a solid, hard-hitting defence allied to front-to-back 'through-the-thirds' football actually exist?
I suppose if he did, he wouldn't be with us. Other than the freakish year under Warnock, which owed a lot to one player supplying the attacking bit (and that was hardly 'coached'), the closest anyone got to it, for me, was De Canio, who fashioned a defence out of gossamer and also had us playing quite nice attacking stuff.
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| The Defence: A Thought on 21:20 - Sep 15 with 522 views | golborne |
Slightly different note, but what were our 2 holding midfielders doing in such advanced positions in the 94th minute when were trying to hang onto our 1 goal lead. It’s little things like that, that leave gaps and put the defence under pressure, especially given they had 4 quick attacking players staying in advanced positions for obvious reasons. |  | | |
| The Defence: A Thought on 21:30 - Sep 15 with 516 views | Myke |
Some really good points Antti, many of which I agree with, at least in principle. However, I also agree with other posters here, especially with regard to set pieces. I coach my son's u17 team. He plays right-back and although quite speedy, is not naturally inclined to venture forward. The left back is not as quick, but very tenacious in the tackle and loves to attack. My orders to both full backs is NEVER let your opponent get goal side, NEVER let them turn inside and prevent as many crosses as possible. For corners, both defend their near post and everybody picks up someone. Obviously they don't succeed all the time or they would have been picked up by Chelsea/City by now. BUT, when they don't succeed, they KNOW they have not done their jobs properly without having to be 'reminded' by me. Last Saturday, my son gave away a soft, needless penalty. It didn't affect the outcome, but he redoubled his efforts thereafter, probably the best player on the pitch for the last 15 minutes. I don't always see that reaction from the QPR defenders after the concession of a needless goal. | | | |
| The Defence: A Thought on 02:58 - Sep 16 with 427 views | timcocking |
It's much easier to defend than attack. It takes a load of skill to beat a player who's quick, agile and determined, almost impossible at that level.
By far the easiest way to improve players, defence or otherwise, is by playing them consistently alongside the same players in the same formation, allowing time for an understanding to develop. The longer your defence plays together, the more cohesion. That's all we need, a consistent backline. We can't be criticising the defence yet when we have a centre back making his debut.
Then you need your 'keeper to save the easy ones and your fullback (yes Ryan) to be switched on for 90 minutes.
Other than that, you hit the nail on the head by saying Klopp fixed it by purchasing 150 odd million on a couple of better players.
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| The Defence: A Thought on 10:53 - Sep 16 with 337 views | Antti_Heinola |
| The Defence: A Thought on 16:33 - Sep 15 by Hunterhoop |
But you’re missing my point, Antti; I’m not saying clear it downfield and gift possession straight back, I’m saying clear it out so the game stops and your side can regroup and get in shape again. Big difference. |
Not sure that is a big difference - you don't stop the momentum particularly and still give the ball back. But it's worth saying that we're agreeing - different situations require different processes! | |
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| The Defence: A Thought on 12:49 - Sep 16 with 284 views | wombat |
| The Defence: A Thought on 19:17 - Sep 15 by daveB |
yeah i don't think you should just lump it every time but when under pressure getting the ball as far away from your goal as possible to give you time to regroup and organise is not a bad way to go about things |
has anyone got the figures of goals conceeded from open play and goals conceeded from corners ?
we seem to conceed way to many from corners , which is something we should be able to change , drop zonal marking for example would be one way |  |
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