| QPR Bond - thoughts from those with expertise? 11:06 - Sep 30 with 29482 views | saxbend |
I have some money sitting in a savings account that does very little except act as a place for my other savings account to empty into annually. I would like to invest it into something a bit more interesting and I am very tempted to believe that the Bond for the new training ground could be it.
So for those of you who've done this sort of thing before (or do it often), what do you think? |  | | |  |
| QPR Bond - thoughts from those with expertise? on 11:35 - Oct 8 with 2583 views | Jeff |
| QPR Bond - thoughts from those with expertise? on 11:12 - Oct 8 by MungoJezza |
My concern regards how easy will it be to sell the bond on at the end of the five years? Since the bonds don't change in value, what incentive is there for someone to buy a bond then (i.e after five years) via the Tifosy exchange other than the interest gained? The training ground would have been built, and we might be already in the Premiership by then. |
at the end of the 5 years the bond will be repaid by the club? |  |
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| QPR Bond - thoughts from those with expertise? on 11:38 - Oct 8 with 2576 views | LythamR |
| QPR Bond - thoughts from those with expertise? on 11:12 - Oct 8 by MungoJezza |
My concern regards how easy will it be to sell the bond on at the end of the five years? Since the bonds don't change in value, what incentive is there for someone to buy a bond then (i.e after five years) via the Tifosy exchange other than the interest gained? The training ground would have been built, and we might be already in the Premiership by then. |
The Bond is for a 5 year period so in theory you get your investment back at the end of the 5 year period or earlier of the club decides to as Norwich did after promotion
in terms of selling the bond, its attractiveness to other parties "may" possibly reduce year on year as the chances of the promotion bonus payout would diminish |  | | |
| QPR Bond - thoughts from those with expertise? on 12:13 - Oct 8 with 2539 views | saxbend |
That's good to know. I didn't pick that up from reading the T&Cs. I also don't think that's helpful from the club's point of view as it may well lead to ticket touting by investors trying to turn their club credit into funds they can use. | | | |
| QPR Bond - thoughts from those with expertise? on 12:34 - Oct 8 with 2501 views | Jeff |
| QPR Bond - thoughts from those with expertise? on 12:13 - Oct 8 by saxbend |
That's good to know. I didn't pick that up from reading the T&Cs. I also don't think that's helpful from the club's point of view as it may well lead to ticket touting by investors trying to turn their club credit into funds they can use. |
Away tickets aren't technically the clubs to sell, they're reselling them on behalf of the home team, and as mentioned elsewhere, home ST is the most important revenue stream the club has, so they can't potentially wipe out a chunk of that by allowing QPR cash to pay for home ST's.
The selling point of the bond is the 5% interest with 25% kick back when getting promoted. That's what the board were at pains to reiterate repeatedly at the investors evening on Wednesday. The 3% kick back on QPR cash should really be considered a 'niceity', and aimed primarily at those investing at the lower end of the market - if you're investing £1000 you get £30 QPR cash (subject to tax) which is most of a free shirt or a 3rd round cup ticket - it's a cheeky little bonus, and not the main selling point.
i'd suggest that if you're looking to invest the sum of money where you're going to be overflowing in QPR cash, then the 3% makes little to no difference to your investment decisions anyway - i don't mind admitting that i'll be investing a not-insignificant sum that will leave me with a surplus of QPR cash, but i'm doing it for the 5% + 25%, not the 3% (although everyone i know will be getting a QPR home shirt for christmas...) | |
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| QPR Bond - thoughts from those with expertise? on 12:58 - Oct 8 with 2468 views | saxbend |
| QPR Bond - thoughts from those with expertise? on 12:34 - Oct 8 by Jeff |
Away tickets aren't technically the clubs to sell, they're reselling them on behalf of the home team, and as mentioned elsewhere, home ST is the most important revenue stream the club has, so they can't potentially wipe out a chunk of that by allowing QPR cash to pay for home ST's.
The selling point of the bond is the 5% interest with 25% kick back when getting promoted. That's what the board were at pains to reiterate repeatedly at the investors evening on Wednesday. The 3% kick back on QPR cash should really be considered a 'niceity', and aimed primarily at those investing at the lower end of the market - if you're investing £1000 you get £30 QPR cash (subject to tax) which is most of a free shirt or a 3rd round cup ticket - it's a cheeky little bonus, and not the main selling point.
i'd suggest that if you're looking to invest the sum of money where you're going to be overflowing in QPR cash, then the 3% makes little to no difference to your investment decisions anyway - i don't mind admitting that i'll be investing a not-insignificant sum that will leave me with a surplus of QPR cash, but i'm doing it for the 5% + 25%, not the 3% (although everyone i know will be getting a QPR home shirt for christmas...) |
Yes you're quite right. Even ignoring the 3% altogether, the money I'm putting into the Bond would gain 500 times as much interest there than in the savings account it's been sitting in thus far. I had hoped initially for cheap season tickets out of it, or to be able to go to more away games than I usually do. But failing that, at least I can give my wife serious competition when it comes to decorating our home.
I would still say though that I don't see any difference between giving out merchandise or a home ticket and not receiving money for it, and paying another club for an away ticket and not receiving the money for it from the fan in question. The result is the same. An investor receives an in-kind payment in line with the Bond agreement that would otherwise be purchased by a non-investing fan. | | | |
| QPR Bond - thoughts from those with expertise? on 13:54 - Oct 8 with 2400 views | PinnerPaul |
| QPR Bond - thoughts from those with expertise? on 10:13 - Oct 8 by saxbend |
Ok I did it. I decided the amount I can afford to lose and took the plunge. Now comes the nervous part (could take a week they say) while I wait for confirmation that the money's been received.
Heads up: I went through the big pdf with all the Ts&Cs. The main concern I had was to be sure bondholders wouldn't be bumped down in the event of liquidation and that side of things looks good.
However, the club credit cannot be spent on season tickets. It explicitly says so. So if you're a season ticket holder (and you probably are if you have spare money to invest), consider how much you would normally spend on tickets for away games cup games and on shirts and other merch, because you may want to calculate your capital based on that if you can get a better interest rate elsewhere as well. I made my estimate based on home cup games costing me about £20 on average (two and a half of those a season on average), away games averaging around £30 and a shirt around £50. Coach travel isn't mentioned at all so I decided not to factor the cost of that when considering how much club credit I would find useful. |
I presumed that even as a ST holder we WOULD be able to use the 3% on away tickets and home tickets for friends/family - so I won't have to buy 57 beenies!  |  | | |
| QPR Bond - thoughts from those with expertise? on 13:55 - Oct 8 with 2399 views | PinnerPaul |
| QPR Bond - thoughts from those with expertise? on 11:12 - Oct 8 by MungoJezza |
My concern regards how easy will it be to sell the bond on at the end of the five years? Since the bonds don't change in value, what incentive is there for someone to buy a bond then (i.e after five years) via the Tifosy exchange other than the interest gained? The training ground would have been built, and we might be already in the Premiership by then. |
Don't think you have to sell it at the end of the term, its just repaid (all things being equal) ie the club are solvent and still own the training ground. | | | |
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| QPR Bond - thoughts from those with expertise? on 13:59 - Oct 8 with 2384 views | PinnerPaul |
| QPR Bond - thoughts from those with expertise? on 11:38 - Oct 8 by LythamR |
The Bond is for a 5 year period so in theory you get your investment back at the end of the 5 year period or earlier of the club decides to as Norwich did after promotion
in terms of selling the bond, its attractiveness to other parties "may" possibly reduce year on year as the chances of the promotion bonus payout would diminish |
As I said elsewhere, bookies will give you say 7/1 - 9/1 on us getting promoted at start of each season - we're still 9/2 now.
The 25% bonus equates to odds of only 1/4, but of course you have the probability of getting your stake back, plus the interest with the bond.
Even so, can't see many buyers using it as a way of gambling on us going up. | | | |
| QPR Bond - thoughts from those with expertise? on 16:14 - Oct 8 with 2291 views | gazza1 |
I'm in!!!! | | | |
| QPR Bond - thoughts from those with expertise? on 16:28 - Oct 8 with 2270 views | QPR_Hibs |
| QPR Bond - thoughts from those with expertise? on 13:59 - Oct 8 by PinnerPaul |
As I said elsewhere, bookies will give you say 7/1 - 9/1 on us getting promoted at start of each season - we're still 9/2 now.
The 25% bonus equates to odds of only 1/4, but of course you have the probability of getting your stake back, plus the interest with the bond.
Even so, can't see many buyers using it as a way of gambling on us going up. |
Good point, but what odds can you get on us being promoted within the next 5 years? |  |
| "Remember to listen to me but look at her. Don't get it the wrong way round. That would be hideous." |
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| QPR Bond - thoughts from those with expertise? on 16:40 - Oct 8 with 2245 views | saxbend |
The return of the stake makes a huge difference though. Yes it's not quite guaranteed, but bookies would be guaranteed not to return it if you bet on us going up and we don't. | | | |
| QPR Bond - thoughts from those with expertise? on 16:46 - Oct 8 with 2224 views | PinnerPaul |
| QPR Bond - thoughts from those with expertise? on 16:40 - Oct 8 by saxbend |
The return of the stake makes a huge difference though. Yes it's not quite guaranteed, but bookies would be guaranteed not to return it if you bet on us going up and we don't. |
Correct.
I DID mention that tbf to myself! | | | |
| QPR Bond - thoughts from those with expertise? on 16:47 - Oct 8 with 2222 views | PinnerPaul |
| QPR Bond - thoughts from those with expertise? on 16:28 - Oct 8 by QPR_Hibs |
Good point, but what odds can you get on us being promoted within the next 5 years? |
Not published, they may give you a price if you emailed a bookie and asked. | | | |
| QPR Bond - thoughts from those with expertise? on 18:24 - Oct 8 with 2127 views | charmr |
As I read this thread can’t help recollect a shares holders meeting with Blackburn and Co when I asked about my options with my shares how glib the concern and reply were.
Invest with your head not your heart.
Learning Gerry F sold his shares the day before (If true) didn’t help | | | |
| QPR Bond - thoughts from those with expertise? on 18:30 - Oct 8 with 2124 views | saxbend |
| QPR Bond - thoughts from those with expertise? on 18:24 - Oct 8 by charmr |
As I read this thread can’t help recollect a shares holders meeting with Blackburn and Co when I asked about my options with my shares how glib the concern and reply were.
Invest with your head not your heart.
Learning Gerry F sold his shares the day before (If true) didn’t help |
Indeed and if it were shares rather than a Bond I wouldn't go near it, and if it were money I am likely to need in the next five years I would definitely not have committed as much as I have. If I don't get it back I'll be depressed, but not as much as I would be about the club going under anyway. | | | |
| QPR Bond - thoughts from those with expertise? on 19:39 - Oct 8 with 2070 views | KatR |
Lots of interest in this which is understandable- I went to the presentation on Wednesday and have spent today reading the documentation etc. The result is that I have bought / applied for a bond.
The presentation was OK and the returns are above CURRENT market rate but as always buyer beware. This offers great returns (currently) and helps the club BUT I can only agree with earlier posts - invest what you can afford to lose…….
The offer is clear and very professional but even the screens at the presentation stated CAPITAL AT RISK
I would have invested more but with the restriction on the QPR cash it did not seem worth it - remember that is taxable as well. Lee Hoos explained the reasoning behind that and it was valid as far as the well being of the club in regard to revenue streams is concerned. | | | |
| QPR Bond - thoughts from those with expertise? on 20:09 - Oct 8 with 2043 views | DavieQPR |
| QPR Bond - thoughts from those with expertise? on 12:58 - Oct 8 by saxbend |
Yes you're quite right. Even ignoring the 3% altogether, the money I'm putting into the Bond would gain 500 times as much interest there than in the savings account it's been sitting in thus far. I had hoped initially for cheap season tickets out of it, or to be able to go to more away games than I usually do. But failing that, at least I can give my wife serious competition when it comes to decorating our home.
I would still say though that I don't see any difference between giving out merchandise or a home ticket and not receiving money for it, and paying another club for an away ticket and not receiving the money for it from the fan in question. The result is the same. An investor receives an in-kind payment in line with the Bond agreement that would otherwise be purchased by a non-investing fan. |
Ticket sales are pure money for the club. If you buy a shirt for £50 it has more than likely cost the club £15. So if you spent £30 club money on it the club broke even after costs. Clothing in general has a very high mark up. |  | | |
| QPR Bond - thoughts from those with expertise? on 20:20 - Oct 8 with 2031 views | KatR |
That’s exactly what they explained hence they still make a profit on the shop purchases and match day tickets etc rather than allowing the cash for season tickets / hospitality packages as well as away games.
For what I have invested I will get “free tickets” as I have travel too much (for work) to get a season ticket, The QPR cash is a great bonus, as is the promotion kicker but have only invested what I can afford to lose …… | | | |
| QPR Bond - thoughts from those with expertise? on 18:33 - Oct 9 with 1828 views | joolsyp |
Apologies if this has already been asked but can you register if you live and work abroad but have UK citizenship and a UK bank account? |  | | |
| QPR Bond - thoughts from those with expertise? on 18:50 - Oct 9 with 1813 views | KatR |
I don’t think it’s a problem as when you pay it gives you an option “if paying from abroad “ | | | |
| QPR Bond - thoughts from those with expertise? on 18:59 - Oct 9 with 1798 views | QPR_Hibs |
| QPR Bond - thoughts from those with expertise? on 18:33 - Oct 9 by joolsyp |
Apologies if this has already been asked but can you register if you live and work abroad but have UK citizenship and a UK bank account? |
Tifosy MAY ask you to provide ID if they cannot find you on UK Voter's roll. This should be straightforward though. | |
| "Remember to listen to me but look at her. Don't get it the wrong way round. That would be hideous." |
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| QPR Bond - thoughts from those with expertise? on 19:00 - Oct 9 with 1791 views | derbyhoop |
| QPR Bond - thoughts from those with expertise? on 18:33 - Oct 9 by joolsyp |
Apologies if this has already been asked but can you register if you live and work abroad but have UK citizenship and a UK bank account? |
My understanding is that as a non-UK resident you cant wrap it into an ISA so will have 20% tax deducted from interest payments. |  |
| Travel is fatal to prejudice, bigotry and narrow-mindedness, and many of our people need it sorely on these accounts. Broad, wholesome, charitable views of men and things cannot be acquired by vegetating in one little corner of the Earth all one’s lifetime. (Mark Twain)
Find me on twitter @derbyhoop |
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| QPR Bond - thoughts from those with expertise? on 22:03 - Oct 9 with 1702 views | gazza1 |
| QPR Bond - thoughts from those with expertise? on 13:59 - Oct 8 by PinnerPaul |
As I said elsewhere, bookies will give you say 7/1 - 9/1 on us getting promoted at start of each season - we're still 9/2 now.
The 25% bonus equates to odds of only 1/4, but of course you have the probability of getting your stake back, plus the interest with the bond.
Even so, can't see many buyers using it as a way of gambling on us going up. |
Not a reasonable comparison whatsoever....which is what i presume you are on about. [Post edited 9 Oct 2021 22:06]
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| QPR Bond - thoughts from those with expertise? on 10:09 - Oct 10 with 1553 views | lightwaterhoop |
| QPR Bond - thoughts from those with expertise? on 18:30 - Oct 8 by saxbend |
Indeed and if it were shares rather than a Bond I wouldn't go near it, and if it were money I am likely to need in the next five years I would definitely not have committed as much as I have. If I don't get it back I'll be depressed, but not as much as I would be about the club going under anyway. |
I agree with that.I'm in it's a great way to support the club and community and feel your money is doing a bit of good. | | | |
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