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I live near the Arsenal youth academy and it's a nightmare with traffic. Not that there's so much f it, but that you can't see past the top of the range SUVs sitting next to the pavement.
All their kit is top of the range and they're treated like lords. It costs Arsenal a fortune but the opportunity of finding a gem is so worthwhile, they're happy to invest.
Youth team on Recast Tuesday on 10:01 - Dec 21 by BrianMcCarthy
That's the main one. Not that the players have to stay in the accommodation, but there has to be an option for them to. It would also mean higher running costs, additional staff etc.
I hope I'm not one of those fans who just demands extra money from the owners, and I do realise they're funding a monthly loss of 1m+, but Cat 2 means our players get robbed for peanuts, and I fail to see how we can pretend to be so serious about developing youth if we stay at Cat 2 and watch our players get poached for a pittance.
The club have to say something to defend the decision to stay at Cat 2 but so far I've heard lovely soundbites but nothing that convinces me that Cat 2 is better for us than Cat 1.
If we can't afford it, fine. But I'm not sure that's the case either. If it breaks FFP/EPPP, fine. But I think we know that it doesn't.
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Youth team on Recast Tuesday on 18:35 - Dec 21 with 3009 views
Youth team on Recast Tuesday on 08:47 - Dec 21 by StevenageRanger
I went to the game tonight for my first ever watch of the U18s (only round the corner for me!)
Really enjoyed it. Was nice, that unprompted Chris Ramsey came over to us and shook me and boys hands as could see we were Rangers. Him and Les than set right next to us.
My youngest had a photo with Neil and I had a brief chat with the new Assistant at half time. I mentioned Rayan and said he looks quality, he said "he has something about him doesnt he"
Ya Ya Toure sitting a few seats away with Pat Jennings.
We are going to head to Luton away now!
Even with the rail strikes etc, I'd leave it a bit longer.
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Youth team on Recast Tuesday on 19:24 - Dec 21 with 2896 views
How does it work if one of these under 18's played for the first team or was on the bench, does that increase the compensation or makes no difference until he signs the pro contract?
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Youth team on Recast Tuesday on 19:46 - Dec 21 with 2853 views
Youth team on Recast Tuesday on 19:24 - Dec 21 by daveB
How does it work if one of these under 18's played for the first team or was on the bench, does that increase the compensation or makes no difference until he signs the pro contract?
There are two groups of players and the rules seem to be quite different.
Pre-Scholars - ie. 15 and under Scholars - 16-18 (and to 19 if extended).
The first group is where the rules are non-existent and clubs can steal players for virtually nothing. This seems to have happened a lot to QPR - losing players in the under-age groups. See the Luca Gunter example from last night. Spurs took him from QPR aged 12, he is now 17, and an England youth international keeper.
The second group - those under a scholarship is a formal contract of some kind. It’s not a pro contract but it has stronger rules. As per this article on the topic. https://cottagersconfidential.
“Can a player transfer/resign from a scholarship? During your registration period you may only be released if all parties are in agreement (the Club, Academy Player and parents)”
And
"Neither club nor any person shall induce or attempt to induce such a player on a scholarship to leave the club for which the player is registered’’
In other words, it seems a formal transfer fee is required, which can reach whatever heights is deemed agreeable by all parties. It sounds like a relatively normal transfer scenario?
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Youth team on Recast Tuesday on 00:10 - Dec 22 with 2639 views
Interesting (though depressing) discussion about rules on youth team transfers.
It does shed a bit of light on why we develop so few players of our own these days, with our best "home grown" players having started elsewhere, and often having been unwanted at their previous clubs.
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Youth team on Recast Tuesday on 09:16 - Dec 22 with 2465 views
Youth team on Recast Tuesday on 19:46 - Dec 21 by 1JD
There are two groups of players and the rules seem to be quite different.
Pre-Scholars - ie. 15 and under Scholars - 16-18 (and to 19 if extended).
The first group is where the rules are non-existent and clubs can steal players for virtually nothing. This seems to have happened a lot to QPR - losing players in the under-age groups. See the Luca Gunter example from last night. Spurs took him from QPR aged 12, he is now 17, and an England youth international keeper.
The second group - those under a scholarship is a formal contract of some kind. It’s not a pro contract but it has stronger rules. As per this article on the topic. https://cottagersconfidential.
“Can a player transfer/resign from a scholarship? During your registration period you may only be released if all parties are in agreement (the Club, Academy Player and parents)”
And
"Neither club nor any person shall induce or attempt to induce such a player on a scholarship to leave the club for which the player is registered’’
In other words, it seems a formal transfer fee is required, which can reach whatever heights is deemed agreeable by all parties. It sounds like a relatively normal transfer scenario?
But isn't that format transfer fee basically an exact calculation based on time spent in the academy? You wouldn't be able to do what we did with Sterling and get £1m with a 10% sell on.
The formula to work out the fees at our level are staggeringly low. £3,000 for each year spent in the academy aged 9-11, somewhere around £30,000 a year for each year done between 12-16, and then fees for first team appearances made which go up £25,000 every ten appearances in the Championship. So as I read it, Teddy Lawrence, who's been with us since 9, even if we quickly pump 100 Championship appearances into him before he's 18, a category A club could take him for £379,000.
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Youth team on Recast Tuesday on 09:23 - Dec 22 with 2448 views
This is why I'm really hoping the idea about reducing the number of players out on loan goes through. It will reduce the number of players piled up on long contracts having gone through a Prem academy system but only kept on as a revenue raiser. I'm hoping that will slightly reduce the incentive of Prem clubs in having a load of players through their academy that they know will never make their first team.
Youth team on Recast Tuesday on 09:16 - Dec 22 by Northernr
But isn't that format transfer fee basically an exact calculation based on time spent in the academy? You wouldn't be able to do what we did with Sterling and get £1m with a 10% sell on.
The formula to work out the fees at our level are staggeringly low. £3,000 for each year spent in the academy aged 9-11, somewhere around £30,000 a year for each year done between 12-16, and then fees for first team appearances made which go up £25,000 every ten appearances in the Championship. So as I read it, Teddy Lawrence, who's been with us since 9, even if we quickly pump 100 Championship appearances into him before he's 18, a category A club could take him for £379,000.
My understanding is that compensation is due for the first category of players as described above - those who are under 16 / a pre-scholar. That’s why the compensation system only goes up till that age. Which is pitiful as you captured.
Those category of players who are on a scholarship contract (16-18) cannot move without a formal agreement between parties (which is not the case for the first category of players u16, where the move is automatic, the compensation is non-negotiable, and the move cannot be stopped).
However not entirely sure of the finer details for players under scholarship. If someone wants to go, they probably go. And the best protection is clearly under a long-term professional contract.
Might be a good question to get clarification from the club at the next fans forum?
As for Sterling- he would fit into the “pre-scholar” category, he was 15 at the time of the move, and refused to sign a scholarship contract with QPR. The reason we got circa 1m + sell-on, and not the pitiful compensation scale today we would get today, is because the rules significantly changed for the worse in the intervening years. Had he been under a scholarship, we presumably we have got more.
Youth team on Recast Tuesday on 11:09 - Dec 22 by 1JD
My understanding is that compensation is due for the first category of players as described above - those who are under 16 / a pre-scholar. That’s why the compensation system only goes up till that age. Which is pitiful as you captured.
Those category of players who are on a scholarship contract (16-18) cannot move without a formal agreement between parties (which is not the case for the first category of players u16, where the move is automatic, the compensation is non-negotiable, and the move cannot be stopped).
However not entirely sure of the finer details for players under scholarship. If someone wants to go, they probably go. And the best protection is clearly under a long-term professional contract.
Might be a good question to get clarification from the club at the next fans forum?
As for Sterling- he would fit into the “pre-scholar” category, he was 15 at the time of the move, and refused to sign a scholarship contract with QPR. The reason we got circa 1m + sell-on, and not the pitiful compensation scale today we would get today, is because the rules significantly changed for the worse in the intervening years. Had he been under a scholarship, we presumably we have got more.
Alex Carroll would probably be the best person for this. Promise first time I'm within shouting distance of somebody at the club again I'll dig into this a bit more.
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Youth team on Recast Tuesday on 11:19 - Dec 22 with 2338 views
Youth team on Recast Tuesday on 11:11 - Dec 22 by Northernr
Alex Carroll would probably be the best person for this. Promise first time I'm within shouting distance of somebody at the club again I'll dig into this a bit more.
That would be great, thanks Clive.
If there is a good reason to pick Cat 2 rather than Cat 1 (apart from cost) it would be great to know.
"The opposite of love, after all, is not hate, but indifference."
What really upsets me about all this that we don't get to see the player in our first team, even for one game. I was really peed off when Sterling went. We all knew we had a special talent and were looking forward to seeing him play for us but he was whisked off before it could happen.
Now I'm really looking forward to seeing Kolli and others debut in the first team in the next couple of seasons or so.
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Youth team on Recast Tuesday on 12:28 - Dec 22 with 2238 views
Youth team on Recast Tuesday on 14:04 - Dec 21 by aston_hoop
For anyone who hasn't seen them
Nice little roar when the goals went in. You can even make out me shouting "You R's" after the 2nd. Was sitting about 5 yards from Paul Morrissey on the comms!
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Youth team on Recast Tuesday on 16:44 - Dec 28 with 1925 views
Following on from our discussion about our youngsters, here's 19 year old Alfie Lloyd currently on loan at Eastleigh scoring an absolute cracker a couple of days ago. Watch from 2.15 for the goal.
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Youth team on Recast Tuesday on 16:57 - Dec 28 with 1869 views
Youth team on Recast Tuesday on 16:44 - Dec 28 by dmm
Following on from our discussion about our youngsters, here's 19 year old Alfie Lloyd currently on loan at Eastleigh scoring an absolute cracker a couple of days ago. Watch from 2.15 for the goal.
And comms from Arry Redknob
AND WHEN I DREAM , I DREAM ABOUT YOU AND WHEN I SCREAM I SCREAM ABOUT YOU!!!!!
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