| Port Talbot Tata 08:50 - Jan 19 with 6127 views | Boundy |
Big announcement today on the future of 3 thousand directly employed and god knows how many service jobs will disappear .All for chasing the impossible dream of net zero , the biggest con in this generations history |  |
| "In a free society, the State is the servant of the people—not the master." |
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| Port Talbot Tata on 09:11 - Jan 19 with 3242 views | Whiterockin |
The workers sold down the river chasing politicians unattainable dreams. |  | | |
| Port Talbot Tata on 09:21 - Jan 19 with 3226 views | JACKMANANDBOY |
Some big questions here which are being ignored, including;
The need for quality and volume steel production for national security, try defending your country without a supply of quality steel. How much capacity do we have?
How much coal produced steel are we importing? What is the quality of imported steel?
What is the cost of producing steel in India and the UK and the fully absorbed environmental impact in each case?
What would the business case for a UK on steel business be? What are the full impacts of reducing capacity at Port Talbot?
Green technology requires steel how much will we need?
Before we close parts of Port Talbot what industry can we introduce to the area to utilise the workforce and what would the transition look like? |  |
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| Port Talbot Tata on 09:28 - Jan 19 with 3217 views | JACKMANANDBOY |
Just heard a BBC journalist saying closures is good for the environment, the idiot did not make any reference to the environmental impact of producing steel in India and China using coal and importing it here which we do and will probably do in greater volumes after the closures. | |
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| Port Talbot Tata on 09:47 - Jan 19 with 3198 views | Boundy |
| Port Talbot Tata on 09:21 - Jan 19 by JACKMANANDBOY |
Some big questions here which are being ignored, including;
The need for quality and volume steel production for national security, try defending your country without a supply of quality steel. How much capacity do we have?
How much coal produced steel are we importing? What is the quality of imported steel?
What is the cost of producing steel in India and the UK and the fully absorbed environmental impact in each case?
What would the business case for a UK on steel business be? What are the full impacts of reducing capacity at Port Talbot?
Green technology requires steel how much will we need?
Before we close parts of Port Talbot what industry can we introduce to the area to utilise the workforce and what would the transition look like? |
The lack of forward or joined up thinking is astonishing , we're being warned by NATO of a high risk of a war against Russia within 20 years , we're constantly being told renewables are the way forward , the National Grid needs to be expanded to maintain security of supply ,
and the push to EV vehicles , these are small examples of our infrastructure which needs steel and lots of it . We have no real manufacturing base and with it the skill set if we did have one. Loss the ability to be as self sustaining as possible and the whole society is in danger of collapse. | |
| "In a free society, the State is the servant of the people—not the master." |
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| Port Talbot Tata on 09:53 - Jan 19 with 3197 views | AnotherJohn |
| Port Talbot Tata on 09:28 - Jan 19 by JACKMANANDBOY |
Just heard a BBC journalist saying closures is good for the environment, the idiot did not make any reference to the environmental impact of producing steel in India and China using coal and importing it here which we do and will probably do in greater volumes after the closures. |
I was disappointed with the BBC presentation of the issues on "Wake up to Money" (Radio 5) today, when the change was said to be about modernisation and reduced greenhouse gas emissions rather than the ending of primary steel production in favour of a technology that can only reprocess scrap steel. Like you, I think the strategic dimension is crucial and feel nervous about what is likely to be the end of primary steel production in the UK (especially in a scenario where so much public money went into the deal). I'd have been tempted to keep at least one blast furnace, even if just moth-balled (assuming that is possible). | | | |
| Port Talbot Tata on 10:03 - Jan 19 with 3180 views | controversial_jack |
Here is the consequence of the climate change con | | | |
| Port Talbot Tata on 13:30 - Jan 19 with 3090 views | BryanSwan |
This is going to be catastrophic for Port Talbot and the surrounding areas.
3000 jobs just in Tata with all the supporting jobs that will go soon on top, could easily be pushing 5000 jobs lost.
All to remove our ability to produce steel which is required. It is genuinely utterly ludicrous.
We will now import the steel at an even greater polluting cost for what you can almost guarentee will be an increased price now that we are unable to produce here.
Yet Sunak et al remain silent.
This country doesn't need change, it needs to be torn down and started again. The corruption and greed has gone too far and is most likely irreversible. | |
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| Port Talbot Tata on 13:50 - Jan 19 with 3078 views | Flashberryjack |
| Port Talbot Tata on 10:03 - Jan 19 by controversial_jack |
Here is the consequence of the climate change con |
Exactly. |  |
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| Port Talbot Tata on 14:37 - Jan 19 with 3029 views | controversial_jack |
| Port Talbot Tata on 13:30 - Jan 19 by BryanSwan |
This is going to be catastrophic for Port Talbot and the surrounding areas.
3000 jobs just in Tata with all the supporting jobs that will go soon on top, could easily be pushing 5000 jobs lost.
All to remove our ability to produce steel which is required. It is genuinely utterly ludicrous.
We will now import the steel at an even greater polluting cost for what you can almost guarentee will be an increased price now that we are unable to produce here.
Yet Sunak et al remain silent.
This country doesn't need change, it needs to be torn down and started again. The corruption and greed has gone too far and is most likely irreversible. |
Tata is a private foreign company, not sure what any PM or politician can do about this. It's the free market that may see as Utopia [Post edited 19 Jan 14:39]
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| Port Talbot Tata on 16:20 - Jan 19 with 3008 views | Kilkennyjack |
It should never have been privatised by the Tories. |  |
| Beware of the Risen People
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| Port Talbot Tata on 16:23 - Jan 19 with 3004 views | Kilkennyjack |
| Port Talbot Tata on 09:47 - Jan 19 by Boundy |
The lack of forward or joined up thinking is astonishing , we're being warned by NATO of a high risk of a war against Russia within 20 years , we're constantly being told renewables are the way forward , the National Grid needs to be expanded to maintain security of supply ,
and the push to EV vehicles , these are small examples of our infrastructure which needs steel and lots of it . We have no real manufacturing base and with it the skill set if we did have one. Loss the ability to be as self sustaining as possible and the whole society is in danger of collapse. |
If it was a nationalised industry we could invest in the new steel technologies in Port Talbot.
You should stop voting Tory. | |
| Beware of the Risen People
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| Port Talbot Tata on 16:45 - Jan 19 with 2995 views | Gwyn737 |
Obviously the loss of jobs is devastating for the area,
But from a steel production point of view, does the change of furnaces reduce our capability? | | | |
| Port Talbot Tata on 17:56 - Jan 19 with 2957 views | AnotherJohn |
| Port Talbot Tata on 16:45 - Jan 19 by Gwyn737 |
Obviously the loss of jobs is devastating for the area,
But from a steel production point of view, does the change of furnaces reduce our capability? |
As I understand things the modernisation will reduce our capability. The electric arc furnaces are only suitable for secondary steel production meaning that they reprocess scrap steel to make new steel products.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Electric_arc_furnace
The coal-fired furnaces presently operating at Port Talbot are capable of primary steel production meaning that they can convert pig iron to liquid steel. The raw ingredients are iron ore, limestone and coal/coke.
https://www.servicesteel.org/resources/electric-arc-furnace-vs-blast-furnace#:~:
Relying on scrap steel would not be enough to meet all the UK's steel production needs so we would still need to import steel from overseas producers capable of primary steel production.
No doubt somebody who actually works in Port Talbot will correct me if I have got anything wrong. [Post edited 19 Jan 17:57]
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| Port Talbot Tata on 18:01 - Jan 19 with 2943 views | Boundy |
| Port Talbot Tata on 16:23 - Jan 19 by Kilkennyjack |
If it was a nationalised industry we could invest in the new steel technologies in Port Talbot.
You should stop voting Tory. |
You must have terrible trouble sleeping , I'm always in your head , now stay on topic or have you some sort of mental deficiency which causes you to distracts your attention . If so then maybe social discourse is not for you . | |
| "In a free society, the State is the servant of the people—not the master." |
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| Port Talbot Tata on 18:03 - Jan 19 with 2930 views | onehunglow |
| Port Talbot Tata on 18:01 - Jan 19 by Boundy |
You must have terrible trouble sleeping , I'm always in your head , now stay on topic or have you some sort of mental deficiency which causes you to distracts your attention . If so then maybe social discourse is not for you . |
Nationalised by honest Harold Harold in 67.
I worked there myself then
SCoW vanished | |
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| Port Talbot Tata on 18:10 - Jan 19 with 2888 views | bennytheblue |
| Port Talbot Tata on 17:56 - Jan 19 by AnotherJohn |
As I understand things the modernisation will reduce our capability. The electric arc furnaces are only suitable for secondary steel production meaning that they reprocess scrap steel to make new steel products.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Electric_arc_furnace
The coal-fired furnaces presently operating at Port Talbot are capable of primary steel production meaning that they can convert pig iron to liquid steel. The raw ingredients are iron ore, limestone and coal/coke.
https://www.servicesteel.org/resources/electric-arc-furnace-vs-blast-furnace#:~:
Relying on scrap steel would not be enough to meet all the UK's steel production needs so we would still need to import steel from overseas producers capable of primary steel production.
No doubt somebody who actually works in Port Talbot will correct me if I have got anything wrong. [Post edited 19 Jan 17:57]
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Will the UK produce anything at all in 30 years? We will have to import everything and in such an unstable world it can’t be good….why did uk gov put in half a billion last year to it? Let them pull out and take it over for nothing…..the joke that is net zero will never exist in China, India, Mexico or the USA so why even bother? If you go to those countries you will see it, walking around Mexico City is like smoking 20 fags a day… Sea levels have been far higher than they are now, the planet has been hotter and had an ice age….its always going to change ffs. |  | | |
| Port Talbot Tata on 18:16 - Jan 19 with 2876 views | raynor94 |
| Port Talbot Tata on 16:45 - Jan 19 by Gwyn737 |
Obviously the loss of jobs is devastating for the area,
But from a steel production point of view, does the change of furnaces reduce our capability? |
Electric arc is second rate, no comparison to Virgin steel |  |
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| Port Talbot Tata on 18:27 - Jan 19 with 2865 views | Kilkennyjack |
| Port Talbot Tata on 18:01 - Jan 19 by Boundy |
You must have terrible trouble sleeping , I'm always in your head , now stay on topic or have you some sort of mental deficiency which causes you to distracts your attention . If so then maybe social discourse is not for you . |
Its only when i read your numpty posts that i ever think of you.
You overrate yourself again.
Pity mun. | |
| Beware of the Risen People
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| Port Talbot Tata on 18:36 - Jan 19 with 2857 views | Gwyn737 |
| Port Talbot Tata on 18:16 - Jan 19 by raynor94 |
Electric arc is second rate, no comparison to Virgin steel |
Not something I know much about - do you mean quality? | | | |
| Port Talbot Tata on 18:44 - Jan 19 with 2845 views | AnotherJohn |
| Port Talbot Tata on 18:36 - Jan 19 by Gwyn737 |
Not something I know much about - do you mean quality? |
Not sure if this article paints an over-rosy picture because of PC considerations:
https://buildingrenewable.com/recycled-steel-vs-virgin-steel-which-better/#What_
It sounds as though Raynor has first hand experience, so I'd be interested to know the advantages of virgin steel . Is it perhaps better for some specialist applications? [Post edited 20 Jan 6:53]
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| Port Talbot Tata on 18:49 - Jan 19 with 2840 views | Gwyn737 |
That’s interesting.
Taking away the emotion of the redundancies for a moment, it does look like a business decision, net zero or not. | | | |
| Port Talbot Tata on 18:56 - Jan 19 with 2834 views | raynor94 |
| Port Talbot Tata on 18:36 - Jan 19 by Gwyn737 |
Not something I know much about - do you mean quality? |
100% electric arc use strap metal, Blast Furnaces produce Virgin Steel.
They are now going to import Virgin Steel and roll it in our Hot Mill.
I can't see any of the Car manufacturers wanting electric arc steel. | |
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| Port Talbot Tata on 18:56 - Jan 19 with 2833 views | AnotherJohn |
| Port Talbot Tata on 18:49 - Jan 19 by Gwyn737 |
That’s interesting.
Taking away the emotion of the redundancies for a moment, it does look like a business decision, net zero or not. |
That link related to quality, but even if that isn't a problem, there is still the point that electric arc furnaces can only process scrap steel and there wouldn't be enough of that for all our needs, | | | |
| Port Talbot Tata on 19:11 - Jan 19 with 2814 views | Luther27 |
| Port Talbot Tata on 18:56 - Jan 19 by AnotherJohn |
That link related to quality, but even if that isn't a problem, there is still the point that electric arc furnaces can only process scrap steel and there wouldn't be enough of that for all our needs, |
I’ve not heard it mentioned the power required for the Arc Furnace. Some whimsical mention about solar and windmills….which have yet to be built. I can’t see the grid being able to support the power demand for it when we are being asked not to switch on a kettle or washing machine during Winter peak times. | | | |
| Port Talbot Tata on 19:15 - Jan 19 with 2799 views | ReslovenSwan1 |
I do not know for sure but there seems some symmetry in the ending of coal mining in Merthyr and the closing of the Tata steel furnaces at Port Talbot. Coal from the valleys were running down hill to PT and mined without planing permission.
I feel sorry for the inhabitants of PT with all the horrible pollution lowering the average life expectancy. I remember talking to a man from the coking plant at work 20 years ago. He could hardly breathe.
This plant has been on a death wish for a few decades now, The clock has been ticking.
The performance of Russian tanks in Ukraine does not support the idea that steel making would be a strategic military loss. If UK upgrade now the Boxer tanks and IFV will still be in action in 2060.
No one seemed too concerned about the massive job losses in Bridgend with Ford and Ineos.
Port Talbot Children now and yet to be born will not see net zero as an con. Nice beach down there once it is all clean and tidy. [Post edited 19 Jan 22:21]
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| Wise sage since Toshack era |
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