| Julien Stéphan, I mean, come on... 22:39 - Oct 4 with 22812 views | bosh67 |
After the Watford and Coventry defeats we were all wondering whether he was already out of his depth?
Six matches further along he's unbeaten, almost nullified the goal difference, got us in the top six and 'generally' making very good in match decisions and proving himself to be a speed learner in this division. Of course we are going to lose matches, possibly a few or so in a row but I actually believe that this guy will work out how to deal with defeats again very quickly. Quicker than his predecessors.
Je pense que nous avons une bonne affaire ici! [Post edited 4 Oct 22:39]
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| Julien Stéphan, I mean, come on... on 18:23 - Oct 10 with 1135 views | Hunterhoop |
| Julien Stéphan, I mean, come on... on 17:41 - Oct 10 by BrianMcCarthy |
The game model by SimplyNico 24 Nov 2024 13:25Nourry set out in this interview with a local rag what his "game model" is - https://londonnewsonline.co.uk/sport/qpr-chief-executive-nourry-we-will-stick-with-game-model-that-led-us-to-cifuentes/.
His words were tbat the game model is:
"some form of 4-3-3, possession-based, mid-block/high press football,”
adding:
"we did that by looking at the last 10 years of the Championship and what won you points and what allowed you sustainability to bring in 16 to 24-year-old players who could play well in the system, develop and be the best players they could possibly be."
In terms of enforcing this he said:
"We have a club game model of how we want to play football. That’s a document that is now under the per view of our head of methodology [Jon De Souza], who’s in charge of policing the game model."
And it was also indicated in relation to the longevity of his game model:
"Nourry is adamant that the club will not move away from the game model approach even if the team struggles to get results on the pitch, and it will guide the process of appointing head coaches in the future."
Any problems with that?
Just a few.
First, "some form of 433".. Please. What does that mean?
Second, why not broadcast to everyone how we are going to play so they can set up for it.
Third, the data set is historic and relates to players who are, in all likelihood, not in this team given the age profile referred to.
Fourth, this flawed, historic data set refers to Championship players. The players we signed are not Championship players. Nourry would doubtless say that there was room for them to progress as Championship players because you look at their data based attributes. That's possibly fine if you look at all of the attributes. However, how do you focus on a subjective quality like stomach for a fight in an objective data set? In short, he is comparing apples with oranges and saying they are the same thing.
Fifth, having now determined that the flawed basis for how the club will play is the game model, we then have a "Director of Methodology" to enforce it. So who is Methodology copper, Jon De Souza? Well looking at other sources rather than the puff and bullshit we get from Nourry, he is a solid, lower league academy coach - https://www.charltonafc.com/news/view/6262720a6c8e8/jon-de-souza-appointed-as-mens-first-team-development-coach. Yet he is enforcing the flawed game model. In other words, in terms of policing the flawed methodology, he outranks what Marti wants to do. In other words, it all comes back to Nourry to decide what will happen because he will report to Nourry.
Finally, in terms of Nourry indicating that the gane model will endure even if results do not go our way, this is blatant stupidity. Quite apart from it saying that reality is wrong because it doesn’t fit the flawed methodology, the definition of insanity is doing the same thing over and over again, and expecting to get a different result.
I am astonished that our owners think that this experiment is worth persevering with. Instead of data and artificial intelligence, why don't we actually apply some analogue, fact based intelligence to the problem and see if Marti can get a tune out of the rabble he has be given with any sort of system.
Nourry quotes here:
"some form of 4-3-3, possession-based, mid-block/high press football,”
"we did that by looking at the last 10 years of the Championship and what won you points and what allowed you sustainability to bring in 16 to 24-year-old players who could play well in the system, develop and be the best players they could possibly be."
"We have a club game model of how we want to play football. That’s a document that is now under the per view of our head of methodology [Jon De Souza], who’s in charge of policing the game model."
"Nourry is adamant that the club will not move away from the game model approach even if the team struggles to get results on the pitch, and it will guide the process of appointing head coaches in the future." |
Thanks, Bri.
And yet, we have now moved away from that Game Model clearly, down to Stephan. We’re playing a type of 442 and getting better results. And the world of football is undoubtedly moving away from technical, possession based play to a more direct, physical style. The data of the last decade is not particularly relevant to the next decade when one era of football comes to an end. That is a risk of being so heavily reliant on data.
It’s a good job Stephan seized control of the first team after the Coventry debacle. We are much better for it. Hopefully Nourry is mature enough to see and accept that
Mart Goblin’s question of what this all means for De Souza is very valid. |  | | |
| Julien Stéphan, I mean, come on... on 18:50 - Oct 10 with 1032 views | BrianMcCarthy |
| Julien Stéphan, I mean, come on... on 18:23 - Oct 10 by Hunterhoop |
Thanks, Bri.
And yet, we have now moved away from that Game Model clearly, down to Stephan. We’re playing a type of 442 and getting better results. And the world of football is undoubtedly moving away from technical, possession based play to a more direct, physical style. The data of the last decade is not particularly relevant to the next decade when one era of football comes to an end. That is a risk of being so heavily reliant on data.
It’s a good job Stephan seized control of the first team after the Coventry debacle. We are much better for it. Hopefully Nourry is mature enough to see and accept that
Mart Goblin’s question of what this all means for De Souza is very valid. |
Other questions that occur:
1. "Nourry is adamant that the club will not move away from the game model approach even if the team struggles to get results on the pitch" - surely we have done, under Cifuentes, and now again under Stéphan?
2. "and it will guide the process of appointing head coaches in the future." - surely it hasn't, as all the previews of Stéphan told us to expect 442?
3. "some form of 4-3-3, possession-based, mid-block/high press football,” - Surely all of this has also been abandoned under both Cifuentes and Stéphan? - @HoopsDreams_QPR has pointed out that we are now far better when we don't play possession football, and pretty poor when we do, and we are now playing with two holding fielders, mid-block would be stretching it, and we are definitely not a high-press team, and
4. Are our underage teams also now playing 442? |  |
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| Julien Stéphan, I mean, come on... on 19:00 - Oct 10 with 987 views | Hunterhoop |
| Julien Stéphan, I mean, come on... on 18:50 - Oct 10 by BrianMcCarthy |
Other questions that occur:
1. "Nourry is adamant that the club will not move away from the game model approach even if the team struggles to get results on the pitch" - surely we have done, under Cifuentes, and now again under Stéphan?
2. "and it will guide the process of appointing head coaches in the future." - surely it hasn't, as all the previews of Stéphan told us to expect 442?
3. "some form of 4-3-3, possession-based, mid-block/high press football,” - Surely all of this has also been abandoned under both Cifuentes and Stéphan? - @HoopsDreams_QPR has pointed out that we are now far better when we don't play possession football, and pretty poor when we do, and we are now playing with two holding fielders, mid-block would be stretching it, and we are definitely not a high-press team, and
4. Are our underage teams also now playing 442? |
Be careful, Bri. Sounds like you’re saying either Nourry lied or hasn’t been able to follow through with what he said because it didn’t work.
We’re 6th, so it’s all going to plan. Even if it was a different plan, or a new plan, or really the plan was just a set of ideals not what Nourry actually said. It’s all going to a plan. Don’t question the leader, even if he’s not leading now. | | | |
| Julien Stéphan, I mean, come on... on 19:10 - Oct 10 with 937 views | BrianMcCarthy |
| Julien Stéphan, I mean, come on... on 19:00 - Oct 10 by Hunterhoop |
Be careful, Bri. Sounds like you’re saying either Nourry lied or hasn’t been able to follow through with what he said because it didn’t work.
We’re 6th, so it’s all going to plan. Even if it was a different plan, or a new plan, or really the plan was just a set of ideals not what Nourry actually said. It’s all going to a plan. Don’t question the leader, even if he’s not leading now. |
Ha Ha!
Well, I'm not saying he lied in this instance. He clearly has said that we had a game model, and he spelt out what it was. As I've said before, I'm not against having one across all teams in a club - Ajax and Barca have long been lauded for it.
And I have no problem with us moving away from it, either.
But I think it'll be interesting when we find out just what has happened behind the scenes that has brought on the changes last season and again so early in this this season. And find out we all will in this collander of a club. | |
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| Julien Stéphan, I mean, come on... on 19:27 - Oct 10 with 882 views | ingeminate |
| Julien Stéphan, I mean, come on... on 19:10 - Oct 10 by BrianMcCarthy |
Ha Ha!
Well, I'm not saying he lied in this instance. He clearly has said that we had a game model, and he spelt out what it was. As I've said before, I'm not against having one across all teams in a club - Ajax and Barca have long been lauded for it.
And I have no problem with us moving away from it, either.
But I think it'll be interesting when we find out just what has happened behind the scenes that has brought on the changes last season and again so early in this this season. And find out we all will in this collander of a club. |
Whoever hired JS deserves credit for bringing in a manager who didn’t tick the yes man box.
Post Coventry he ignored whatever he said in interview and did his own thing.
After that game Nourri will have been pretty powerless, skating thin ice with owners to report into. I’d imagine he calculated that the owners probably cared more about results than game models and anyway when you ship 7 any talk about riding out the storm flies out the window - so one way or another pragmatism took over and all the better for it.
As to what happens to the gameplay henchman I’d guess he’s just tasked with adopting a different game plan throughout the club. More physicality, direct etc. if he’s so ideologically opposed he can’t bring himself to do that he’ll have to leave. |  |
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| Julien Stéphan, I mean, come on... on 20:32 - Oct 10 with 795 views | FDC |
| Julien Stéphan, I mean, come on... on 17:41 - Oct 10 by BrianMcCarthy |
The game model by SimplyNico 24 Nov 2024 13:25Nourry set out in this interview with a local rag what his "game model" is - https://londonnewsonline.co.uk/sport/qpr-chief-executive-nourry-we-will-stick-with-game-model-that-led-us-to-cifuentes/.
His words were tbat the game model is:
"some form of 4-3-3, possession-based, mid-block/high press football,”
adding:
"we did that by looking at the last 10 years of the Championship and what won you points and what allowed you sustainability to bring in 16 to 24-year-old players who could play well in the system, develop and be the best players they could possibly be."
In terms of enforcing this he said:
"We have a club game model of how we want to play football. That’s a document that is now under the per view of our head of methodology [Jon De Souza], who’s in charge of policing the game model."
And it was also indicated in relation to the longevity of his game model:
"Nourry is adamant that the club will not move away from the game model approach even if the team struggles to get results on the pitch, and it will guide the process of appointing head coaches in the future."
Any problems with that?
Just a few.
First, "some form of 433".. Please. What does that mean?
Second, why not broadcast to everyone how we are going to play so they can set up for it.
Third, the data set is historic and relates to players who are, in all likelihood, not in this team given the age profile referred to.
Fourth, this flawed, historic data set refers to Championship players. The players we signed are not Championship players. Nourry would doubtless say that there was room for them to progress as Championship players because you look at their data based attributes. That's possibly fine if you look at all of the attributes. However, how do you focus on a subjective quality like stomach for a fight in an objective data set? In short, he is comparing apples with oranges and saying they are the same thing.
Fifth, having now determined that the flawed basis for how the club will play is the game model, we then have a "Director of Methodology" to enforce it. So who is Methodology copper, Jon De Souza? Well looking at other sources rather than the puff and bullshit we get from Nourry, he is a solid, lower league academy coach - https://www.charltonafc.com/news/view/6262720a6c8e8/jon-de-souza-appointed-as-mens-first-team-development-coach. Yet he is enforcing the flawed game model. In other words, in terms of policing the flawed methodology, he outranks what Marti wants to do. In other words, it all comes back to Nourry to decide what will happen because he will report to Nourry.
Finally, in terms of Nourry indicating that the gane model will endure even if results do not go our way, this is blatant stupidity. Quite apart from it saying that reality is wrong because it doesn’t fit the flawed methodology, the definition of insanity is doing the same thing over and over again, and expecting to get a different result.
I am astonished that our owners think that this experiment is worth persevering with. Instead of data and artificial intelligence, why don't we actually apply some analogue, fact based intelligence to the problem and see if Marti can get a tune out of the rabble he has be given with any sort of system.
Nourry quotes here:
"some form of 4-3-3, possession-based, mid-block/high press football,”
"we did that by looking at the last 10 years of the Championship and what won you points and what allowed you sustainability to bring in 16 to 24-year-old players who could play well in the system, develop and be the best players they could possibly be."
"We have a club game model of how we want to play football. That’s a document that is now under the per view of our head of methodology [Jon De Souza], who’s in charge of policing the game model."
"Nourry is adamant that the club will not move away from the game model approach even if the team struggles to get results on the pitch, and it will guide the process of appointing head coaches in the future." |
Nice one Brian, pretty sure I'd never seen that. Makes the evasion since look quite dodgy, and supports the suggestion by Mart and others that there genuinely has been an explicit departure from a really quite specific and prescriptive model. Blimey. |  | | |
| Julien Stéphan, I mean, come on... on 20:37 - Oct 10 with 778 views | FDC |
| Julien Stéphan, I mean, come on... on 18:50 - Oct 10 by BrianMcCarthy |
Other questions that occur:
1. "Nourry is adamant that the club will not move away from the game model approach even if the team struggles to get results on the pitch" - surely we have done, under Cifuentes, and now again under Stéphan?
2. "and it will guide the process of appointing head coaches in the future." - surely it hasn't, as all the previews of Stéphan told us to expect 442?
3. "some form of 4-3-3, possession-based, mid-block/high press football,” - Surely all of this has also been abandoned under both Cifuentes and Stéphan? - @HoopsDreams_QPR has pointed out that we are now far better when we don't play possession football, and pretty poor when we do, and we are now playing with two holding fielders, mid-block would be stretching it, and we are definitely not a high-press team, and
4. Are our underage teams also now playing 442? |
"4. Are our underage teams also now playing 442?"
Yes now that we are in the glorious new era of Pragmatic Adaptation Ball, poor John De Souza is going to be frantically implementing a new club-wide model every week. | | | |
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