| One Simple Change for Last 20 Minutes - Chair for Carroll 12:09 - Dec 30 with 1902 views | ParkRoyalR |
I think taking off Carroll on our standard 70 minute substitution and dropping Chair back into his position would bring the team a number of benefits in both creating in the last 20 and seeing games out better. Benefits for me:
1) Chair has much better pace over 5 to 10 yards, crucial pressing teams and stopping them playing triangles through us in the last 20 as Norwich threatened last night
2) Chair has a better engine and immense desire, he will run till he falls, whereas Carroll has never been that type of player
3) Chair is better travelling with the ball which we've missed since Eze, Luongo and Freeman and stops us coughing up possession cheaply when there are no easy passes on as we did last night
4) Chair has a better long pass on him which is crucial when trying to hit Bonne's early runs and / or Adomah , Willock and BOS on the flanks, it will stretch teams and stop them coming on to us
There are a few risks in this option, but I think the benefits far outweigh these, and recall Chery having one of his best games away to Forest when dropping back into this CDM type role, also how Swansea mastered with Leon Britton and maybe Joe Allen in this role.
Our No 1 priority I think is we need to close the space in front of the Centre Halves in the last 20 when Cameron and Ball tire, and I think this would a better option (if we are not going to bring on Bettache) that see Carroll struggle through last 20. |  | | |  |
| One Simple Change for Last 20 Minutes - Chair for Carroll on 12:16 - Dec 30 with 1868 views | daveB |
I thought the subs worked quite well last night, Adomah did well |  | | |
| One Simple Change for Last 20 Minutes - Chair for Carroll on 12:35 - Dec 30 with 1825 views | gazza1 |
The jury is out on a few of this seasons signings.....Carroll included.
One success is Dickie and he has made a couple of errors but a 7/10 signing. The others range from 3/10 - 5/10 but there is still time. Have they improved the team is questionable, have they improved the squad, probably. | | | |
| One Simple Change for Last 20 Minutes - Chair for Carroll on 12:43 - Dec 30 with 1797 views | ParkRoyalR |
| One Simple Change for Last 20 Minutes - Chair for Carroll on 12:16 - Dec 30 by daveB |
I thought the subs worked quite well last night, Adomah did well |
Agree, but with the subs typically being Bonne and Adomah, and us defending fairly deep in last 20 and relying on pressing space and counter-attacking, think Chair could tick both boxes better than Carroll, who works well when we are playing possession football, less so when we have'nt got the ball, which has been the case of late in the last 20 minutes of recent games. | | | |
| One Simple Change for Last 20 Minutes - Chair for Carroll on 12:59 - Dec 30 with 1748 views | Benny_the_Ball |
Some merit to your argument but not without its drawbacks.
- Carroll's set pieces are better than Chair's (brought into sharp focus yesterday)
- Though Carroll is hardly a midfield heavyweight, Chair would almost certainly be bullied in central midfield
- If you drop Chair to CDM you reduce what little creativity we have going forward
- Chair sometimes loses possession by holding on to the ball for longer than necessary. This would be more damaging in the defensive third. |  | | |
| One Simple Change for Last 20 Minutes - Chair for Carroll on 13:12 - Dec 30 with 1705 views | ParkRoyalR |
| One Simple Change for Last 20 Minutes - Chair for Carroll on 12:59 - Dec 30 by Benny_the_Ball |
Some merit to your argument but not without its drawbacks.
- Carroll's set pieces are better than Chair's (brought into sharp focus yesterday)
- Though Carroll is hardly a midfield heavyweight, Chair would almost certainly be bullied in central midfield
- If you drop Chair to CDM you reduce what little creativity we have going forward
- Chair sometimes loses possession by holding on to the ball for longer than necessary. This would be more damaging in the defensive third. |
Agree, particularly with your last point which I think is the biggest risk, but Chair is strong on the ball so hopefully can draw fouls the way Eze did so well in relieving pressure and allowing the defence to re-group and move 20 yards up the pitch. | | | |
| One Simple Change for Last 20 Minutes - Chair for Carroll on 14:38 - Dec 30 with 1587 views | essextaxiboy |
IMO taking off the best passer of the ball at the club at a time in the game when ball retention is crucial is a bad idea . |  | | |
| One Simple Change for Last 20 Minutes - Chair for Carroll on 14:53 - Dec 30 with 1558 views | Myke |
For me, Carroll has comfortably been the second best signing we have made this season and would be pushing Dickie as our best. He is the creative link between our defence and forwards. Didn't see last night, but by all accounts he worked very hard off the ball too.
Some of your plusses are valid, but for me, why not drop Chair a little deeper to assist Carroll rather than replacing him. Therefore you retain your creativity allied to the extra combative style of Chair.
Instead, freshen up the wingers/strikers to give these two lads something to aim at. I also think the team would benefit from having someone as energetic as Smyth coming on for the last 20, so really think we should recall him. | | | |
| One Simple Change for Last 20 Minutes - Chair for Carroll on 14:59 - Dec 30 with 1537 views | stainrods_elbow |
For me, Chair definitely needs to play in the hole/as a 10 in a 3-4-1-2 or 4-3-1-2 or something similar. Not slung out wide, not too deep, but as a central playmaker who can pick the ball up on the counterattack, drive at the oppo's defence and pull them out of position.
Watching him last night, for me one thing he needs to do better is get his feckin' head up to pick a pass and/or maximise the intelligence of his dribbling runs - he spurned that 1-1 chance partly because he was charging forward like a bull bearing its horns, which is more likely to drive a player into cul-de-sacs. Not a great look when you're playing top-level football. An inspiring counter-example would be Cantona - collar up, high head, playing the game as regally as a king, not scurrying about (however skilfully) like a ratman. Chair is well-sprung (see what I did there?), improving excitingly, but he needs to be coached to look up and really use his vision. |  |
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| One Simple Change for Last 20 Minutes - Chair for Carroll on 15:17 - Dec 30 with 1497 views | Boston |
| One Simple Change for Last 20 Minutes - Chair for Carroll on 12:35 - Dec 30 by gazza1 |
The jury is out on a few of this seasons signings.....Carroll included.
One success is Dickie and he has made a couple of errors but a 7/10 signing. The others range from 3/10 - 5/10 but there is still time. Have they improved the team is questionable, have they improved the squad, probably. |
This jury member has Carroll as not guilty. | |
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| One Simple Change for Last 20 Minutes - Chair for Carroll on 15:28 - Dec 30 with 1477 views | Benny_the_Ball |
| One Simple Change for Last 20 Minutes - Chair for Carroll on 13:12 - Dec 30 by ParkRoyalR |
Agree, particularly with your last point which I think is the biggest risk, but Chair is strong on the ball so hopefully can draw fouls the way Eze did so well in relieving pressure and allowing the defence to re-group and move 20 yards up the pitch. |
Perhaps but Eze did that mainly on the flanks or in the pocket. He was neither a central midfield general nor a CDM.
That being said, size certainly didn't hold back the likes of Claude Makélélé and N'Golo Kanté, so it could possibly work with Chair. The issue then would be whether the lad would enjoy swapping a 10 role for CDM. For me, the best defenders and CDMs enjoy defending; you can't force it (Manning being a case in point - great going forward but poor defensively). [Post edited 30 Dec 2020 15:36]
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| One Simple Change for Last 20 Minutes - Chair for Carroll on 16:18 - Dec 30 with 1423 views | ParkRoyalR |
| One Simple Change for Last 20 Minutes - Chair for Carroll on 15:28 - Dec 30 by Benny_the_Ball |
Perhaps but Eze did that mainly on the flanks or in the pocket. He was neither a central midfield general nor a CDM.
That being said, size certainly didn't hold back the likes of Claude Makélélé and N'Golo Kanté, so it could possibly work with Chair. The issue then would be whether the lad would enjoy swapping a 10 role for CDM. For me, the best defenders and CDMs enjoy defending; you can't force it (Manning being a case in point - great going forward but poor defensively). [Post edited 30 Dec 2020 15:36]
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Agree, but I'm thinking just about the last 20 minutes in games when we make our substitutions, as on the whole I don't think our substitutions have worked, where we throw on 2 or 3 attackers who are reliant on quick ball and not the slower possession based play Carroll gives (and this is not a criticism of Carroll just my thoughts on the type of play that does and does n't suit his style)
We seem to have a large gap in the last 20 between a tiring defence which stops bringing the ball out, coupled with a midfield that struggles to carry the ball or go long accurately (hence losing possession so often last night - Kane aside), or press the space in front of the Center Halves,
Chair's head-down weakness does make this a risk as you say, but in the absence of Amos, and if we are not going to play Bettache, we need to do something imo to bring pace and energy into the CDM area in the last 20, as we cannot play 'the alamo backs to the wall' card every week and hope to get away with it. | | | |
| One Simple Change for Last 20 Minutes - Chair for Carroll on 20:03 - Dec 30 with 1278 views | Benny_the_Ball |
| One Simple Change for Last 20 Minutes - Chair for Carroll on 16:18 - Dec 30 by ParkRoyalR |
Agree, but I'm thinking just about the last 20 minutes in games when we make our substitutions, as on the whole I don't think our substitutions have worked, where we throw on 2 or 3 attackers who are reliant on quick ball and not the slower possession based play Carroll gives (and this is not a criticism of Carroll just my thoughts on the type of play that does and does n't suit his style)
We seem to have a large gap in the last 20 between a tiring defence which stops bringing the ball out, coupled with a midfield that struggles to carry the ball or go long accurately (hence losing possession so often last night - Kane aside), or press the space in front of the Center Halves,
Chair's head-down weakness does make this a risk as you say, but in the absence of Amos, and if we are not going to play Bettache, we need to do something imo to bring pace and energy into the CDM area in the last 20, as we cannot play 'the alamo backs to the wall' card every week and hope to get away with it. |
Yep I'd agree that perhaps a different approach is needed. MW has thrown away a few points this season with poor subs, often hauling Chair off even when he's playing well. | | | |
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