| The view from the Pu - September on 09:44 - Oct 4 with 2094 views | stevec |
Getting a little bit tired of the 'lower league good/higher league bad' mantra that seems to have afflicted a not insignificant section of our support base.
Three years of this and most have either come and gone or languish in the Plan B department of the sub squad. Three years and the only 90 minute player is Luongo (I won't go there).
We need to accept that from that section of football, for every Jamie Vardy, there's 100 Conor Washingtons. You may find a gem if you're lucky but you categorically won't find a team.
I'm fine with youngsters coming through but stop pushing League One and Two as some form of Utopia, it ain't gonna work. |  | |  |
| The view from the Pu - September on 10:33 - Oct 4 with 2031 views | flitwickhoop |
That's not really the point I have made though. My point is just the arrogance of writing a player off purely based on the fact that he plays in the lower leagues. By no means am I saying Leagues 1 and 2 is like some form of reincarnation of the Brazil 1970 squad but surely being a manager and working within that industry McClaren should have some basic knowledge of the league's below the championship. Obviously I'm not privvy to what goes on behind the scenes but by not wanting to sign a player (that has been properly scouted) purely because they play in the lower leagues stinks of arrogance and are you really telling me that a 33 year Geoff Cameron is better than say a 23 year old Alex Mowatt from Barnsley just purely because he has played in the Premier League for Stoke?
At the end of the day it's just my opinion what do I know |  | | |
| The view from the Pu - September on 12:09 - Oct 4 with 1870 views | BrianMcCarthy |
"Whilst we have loaned 33-year-old Geoff for the season from Stoke, to facilitate this we had to ship young Ryan Manning out on loan to division rivals Rotherham."
We don't really know that, to be fair. Like many, I was disappointed with the decision to loan out Manning but we don't really know the thinking behind it. It may well have been done to further the development of a promising young player and not to make way for Cameron per se. |  |
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| The view from the Pu - September on 13:02 - Oct 4 with 1796 views | mikeyc01 |
On the point about potentially getting Arsenal away - I'm sure in the FA cup there is a rule that ticket income has to be split 50/50 and I'd imagine the league cup would have a similar rule.
Surely if we're so broke we'd want to stay in the cups as long as possible to try and get a game like this? 50% of Arsenal's gate receipts would make a massive difference to us. Makes no sense to me. | | | |
| The view from the Pu - September on 13:30 - Oct 4 with 1755 views | Northernr |
| The view from the Pu - September on 12:09 - Oct 4 by BrianMcCarthy |
"Whilst we have loaned 33-year-old Geoff for the season from Stoke, to facilitate this we had to ship young Ryan Manning out on loan to division rivals Rotherham."
We don't really know that, to be fair. Like many, I was disappointed with the decision to loan out Manning but we don't really know the thinking behind it. It may well have been done to further the development of a promising young player and not to make way for Cameron per se. |
I think it was done more because McClaren preferred Cousins but whatever the reasons, we now have Cameron trying and failing to play a position Manning could play with his eyes closed while Manning is going great guns for a direct rival. First job January 1 is to reverse that. It was a bad idea to start with, it's turned out to be a monumentally fcking stupid idea. |  | | |
| The view from the Pu - September on 13:47 - Oct 4 with 1704 views | qprd |
I'm probably the only person who is still ok with the Manning loan move- we should be happy he's playing so well there, its only going to benefit his career, increase his transfer value and make him a better player for us.
I don't view Cameron as a replacement for Manning. He's more of a utility player who can do a job at a number of positions- he mostly was a CDM at stoke, but is used as a CB for the US. He's more of a sitting CDM in the matic mold unlike manning whose more of a midfield rover who covers a lot of ground trying to break up play and makes the occasional late run into the box. Cameron's basically a James Perch type, which I think we needed at the transfer window given the uncertainties around Hall's fitness, Lynch's horrible injury history and Baptistes age.
Having said that, I think its a bit daft to be playing Cameron so much- he's basically riding out his Stoke City contract (where he was definitely on Prem league wages) until he goes back to the MLS on massive money- he's pretty irrelevant out here, but in the US, hes one of the most highly respected players, and some random MLS team will pay him handsomely. No matter how little Cameron plays here or how crap he plays when he does, he's getting paid no matter what in the states. If McLaren is so keen on Cousins, he can have Cousins play the sitting role that Cameron has been playing, which would free up the RW position for someone like Paul Smyth | | | |
| The view from the Pu - September on 14:29 - Oct 4 with 1635 views | SimonJames |
| The view from the Pu - September on 09:44 - Oct 4 by stevec |
Getting a little bit tired of the 'lower league good/higher league bad' mantra that seems to have afflicted a not insignificant section of our support base.
Three years of this and most have either come and gone or languish in the Plan B department of the sub squad. Three years and the only 90 minute player is Luongo (I won't go there).
We need to accept that from that section of football, for every Jamie Vardy, there's 100 Conor Washingtons. You may find a gem if you're lucky but you categorically won't find a team.
I'm fine with youngsters coming through but stop pushing League One and Two as some form of Utopia, it ain't gonna work. |
I think the mantra is more "lower league possible/ higher league impossible" - we are now priced out of buying Premier League players.
So if we want to build a stronger club, with saleable players, we have to look at our academy, lower leagues or abroad. |  |
| 100% of people who drink water will die. |
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| The view from the Pu - September on 15:05 - Oct 4 with 1591 views | BrianMcCarthy |
| The view from the Pu - September on 13:30 - Oct 4 by Northernr |
I think it was done more because McClaren preferred Cousins but whatever the reasons, we now have Cameron trying and failing to play a position Manning could play with his eyes closed while Manning is going great guns for a direct rival. First job January 1 is to reverse that. It was a bad idea to start with, it's turned out to be a monumentally fcking stupid idea. |
Absolutely agree that it was stupid. No arguments. By the way, I've PM'd you. | |
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| The view from the Pu - September on 19:22 - Oct 4 with 1316 views | daveB |
| The view from the Pu - September on 09:44 - Oct 4 by stevec |
Getting a little bit tired of the 'lower league good/higher league bad' mantra that seems to have afflicted a not insignificant section of our support base.
Three years of this and most have either come and gone or languish in the Plan B department of the sub squad. Three years and the only 90 minute player is Luongo (I won't go there).
We need to accept that from that section of football, for every Jamie Vardy, there's 100 Conor Washingtons. You may find a gem if you're lucky but you categorically won't find a team.
I'm fine with youngsters coming through but stop pushing League One and Two as some form of Utopia, it ain't gonna work. |
It's not really a case of lower league good buy from prem bad but the club have spoken a lot about signing prospects and developing them so the best way to do this is to sign players released from academies such as Eze, Chair and Oteh or lower league players as will cost less for potential than prem players with potential will cost. We will have more misses than hits doing it this way but signing Goss for 500k has proven to be a more expensive waste of money than signing Bright Samuel. Both decent prospects but Goss cost a lot more as he was in the prem
What is now happening is that good prospects are leaving academies at 17/18 going to lower league clubs and working their way back up so there is a lot of talent out there to be found. |  | | |
| The view from the Pu - September on 19:54 - Oct 4 with 1267 views | Lblock |
I see you feel the job is 20% done being 25% through the season... statistically yes you're right.
My concern (you may have noticed I usually have a "concern" now and then) is that we are 25% through in terms of games played...BUT!.... I still don't think we've had a hard run of games or played anyone decent yet bar West Brom and look how that ended up.
For the rest of this month we have Derby, Chef Weds and Villa - all either doing well or fancied to do so.
December looks absolutely daunting bar Ipswich & Reading at home but they are both at Christmas time where I feel one or two players may be in Dubai getting fat.
January don't look much better and then from mid February to start of March we play Brizzle City away, Leeds, Boro away, Bentford away and then Sjoke at home -- pick the bones out of that little run of fixtures before we go into the closing straight.
Need to pull a couple more away wins out of the bag to wipe away the Brizzle City and N'arich defeats and we've already played Brum and Reading away
It's going to be tough.
C'mon U R's!! |  |
| Cherish and enjoy life.... this ain't no dress rehearsal |
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| The view from the Pu - September on 21:48 - Oct 4 with 1153 views | VancouverHoop |
| The view from the Pu - September on 19:54 - Oct 4 by Lblock |
I see you feel the job is 20% done being 25% through the season... statistically yes you're right.
My concern (you may have noticed I usually have a "concern" now and then) is that we are 25% through in terms of games played...BUT!.... I still don't think we've had a hard run of games or played anyone decent yet bar West Brom and look how that ended up.
For the rest of this month we have Derby, Chef Weds and Villa - all either doing well or fancied to do so.
December looks absolutely daunting bar Ipswich & Reading at home but they are both at Christmas time where I feel one or two players may be in Dubai getting fat.
January don't look much better and then from mid February to start of March we play Brizzle City away, Leeds, Boro away, Bentford away and then Sjoke at home -- pick the bones out of that little run of fixtures before we go into the closing straight.
Need to pull a couple more away wins out of the bag to wipe away the Brizzle City and N'arich defeats and we've already played Brum and Reading away
It's going to be tough.
C'mon U R's!! |
I think its a bit daft to be playing Cameron so much- he's basically riding out his Stoke City contract (where he was definitely on Prem league wages) until he goes back to the MLS on massive money- he's pretty irrelevant out here, but in the US, hes one of the most highly respected players, and some random MLS team will pay him handsomely.
I'm always amused that people think every player going from England to MLS is going to be on "massive money." Jordon Mutch – briefly of this parish and Crystal Palace, is currently playing for Vancouver Whitecaps and getting paid £2,303 per week. Brek Shea, another US player who's quite comparable to Cameron in terms of international
experience and status, though four years younger. He even played briefly for Stoke, is getting £10,333 per week.
With the exception of a handful of internationally well-known players, MLS is not a wealthy league. It's hard salary capped, and all player contracts are made public. In Europe it'd probably be comparable to Holland, or possibly Portugal. Certainly light-years from the Premier League [Post edited 4 Oct 2018 21:50]
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