| saudi golf 21:34 - Jun 6 with 5899 views | digswellhoop |
Any one like golf if European players go to this tour should they be banned from ryder cup |  | | |  |
| saudi golf on 09:27 - Jun 9 with 1836 views | easthertsr |
I think what sticks in the craw of a lot of people is that by any stretch of the imagination these are extremely wealthy individuals already, who are quite happy to take huge sums of money from highly dubious regimes. The fact that others do it doesn't make it right. Their silence when asked who they wouldn't take money from to play spoke volumes. | | | |
| saudi golf on 09:40 - Jun 9 with 1780 views | ted_hendrix |
| saudi golf on 09:08 - Jun 9 by Rangers67 |
FIFA arguing anything on the morals front is quite frankly insulting to any sane person. Do you really think that when the backhanders were going round and all the shady deals were being done that the welfare of the people building the stadia and infrastructure was mentioned even once ? I realise that construction deaths in places like Qatar and Dubai etc have been at high levels for years which is exactly why they should not have been awarded the world cup in the first place. Sadly as we all know money talks across all societies and allows injustice to carry on . Having sadly witnessed first hand a few years ago the virtual slave labour conditions of the workers from both Africa and the Indian sub continent in Dubai I would never go anywhere near this part of the world again. |
Good post. |  |
| My Father had a profound influence on me, he was a lunatic. |
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| saudi golf on 10:00 - Jun 9 with 1737 views | Rs_Holy |
| saudi golf on 09:27 - Jun 9 by easthertsr |
I think what sticks in the craw of a lot of people is that by any stretch of the imagination these are extremely wealthy individuals already, who are quite happy to take huge sums of money from highly dubious regimes. The fact that others do it doesn't make it right. Their silence when asked who they wouldn't take money from to play spoke volumes. |
Dustin Johnson = $74 million in career PGA Tour earnings
Phil Mickleson = estimated $925 million
As mentioned money talks but how much money do these people want?
Reminds me a bit of the footballer Oscar who was playing for that bunch down the road, earning a fortune, winning trophies, playing in a League watched all over the world, playing in the champions League against some of the best players on the planet... but decided to transfer to a club in China. His first tweet when he completed the move was 'I am now the third highest paid player in the world'..... sums it all up! |  | | |
| saudi golf on 10:26 - Jun 9 with 1684 views | essextaxiboy |
| saudi golf on 09:08 - Jun 9 by Rangers67 |
FIFA arguing anything on the morals front is quite frankly insulting to any sane person. Do you really think that when the backhanders were going round and all the shady deals were being done that the welfare of the people building the stadia and infrastructure was mentioned even once ? I realise that construction deaths in places like Qatar and Dubai etc have been at high levels for years which is exactly why they should not have been awarded the world cup in the first place. Sadly as we all know money talks across all societies and allows injustice to carry on . Having sadly witnessed first hand a few years ago the virtual slave labour conditions of the workers from both Africa and the Indian sub continent in Dubai I would never go anywhere near this part of the world again. |
It sort of makes my point that you are highlighting these things on a football forum at this time . |  | | |
| saudi golf on 10:47 - Jun 9 with 1634 views | Rangers67 |
| saudi golf on 10:26 - Jun 9 by essextaxiboy |
It sort of makes my point that you are highlighting these things on a football forum at this time . |
I think I understand the point you are making about shining a light on the situation but surely there are better ways to do it than allowing a regime to effectively enslave poor migrant workers in appalling conditions , thousands of who have died to achieve this end. Anyway I will leave it there as you are right it is a football forum . | | | |
| saudi golf on 16:29 - Jun 9 with 1495 views | WokingR |
All those that hadn't already resigned have now been suspended by the PGA tour. |  | | |
| saudi golf on 16:33 - Jun 9 with 1492 views | Mick_S |
| saudi golf on 10:00 - Jun 9 by Rs_Holy |
Dustin Johnson = $74 million in career PGA Tour earnings
Phil Mickleson = estimated $925 million
As mentioned money talks but how much money do these people want?
Reminds me a bit of the footballer Oscar who was playing for that bunch down the road, earning a fortune, winning trophies, playing in a League watched all over the world, playing in the champions League against some of the best players on the planet... but decided to transfer to a club in China. His first tweet when he completed the move was 'I am now the third highest paid player in the world'..... sums it all up! |
Phil may need another jet. You never know what may happen. |  |
| Did I ever mention that I was in Minder? |
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| saudi golf on 19:05 - Jun 9 with 1419 views | distortR |
My point is,why should we expect sportsman to have higher standards then our government (Selling arms to the bastards) or us (Buying products off them).
I have a problem with those who have made gestures against despotism and inequality being hypocritical, but have these blokes said any thing of the sort?
As I said before, they should just take the knee, seems to absolve you of any moral guilt. As we'll see in Qatar. | | | |
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| saudi golf on 19:19 - Jun 9 with 1410 views | kensalriser |
| saudi golf on 19:05 - Jun 9 by distortR |
My point is,why should we expect sportsman to have higher standards then our government (Selling arms to the bastards) or us (Buying products off them).
I have a problem with those who have made gestures against despotism and inequality being hypocritical, but have these blokes said any thing of the sort?
As I said before, they should just take the knee, seems to absolve you of any moral guilt. As we'll see in Qatar. |
No one is obliged to follow the lead of the government, are they? |  |
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| saudi golf on 20:09 - Jun 9 with 1350 views | distortR |
| saudi golf on 19:19 - Jun 9 by kensalriser |
No one is obliged to follow the lead of the government, are they? |
of course not, my point is we are all complicit in bolstering the saudi government, or the ccp etc. This faux outrage is just window dressing. If you don't like it, don't watch it, don't buy it.
Still don't know where I am with the world cup, but think maybe players loudly insistent on taking the knee shouldn't go, otherwise it is pure virtue signalling.
And yes, I do understand why players are torn on this, it's a once in 4 years chance to play in the world's biggest tournament. | | | |
| saudi golf on 03:27 - Jul 22 with 880 views | PlanetHonneywood |
| saudi golf on 07:27 - Jun 9 by essextaxiboy |
Well the difference is that Quatar have not executed 85 people in one day or murdered a jounalist and dismembered his body .
The deaths in construction in Quatar have been happening for years ,before they were awarded the World Cup and the stadia constructed .
That the Cup is there at all is questionable(Blatter in court shortly) but FIFA would argue that it is shining a light on the issues and if Quatar want to move away from oil and turn to sport and tourism then they have to address them . |
You’ve put it quite fairly, and Q is seeking to position itself as a sporting hub.
The difference with Q and SA, is that Q have made far-reaching reforms. But I caveat that by saying: we’ll know how serious they are after the WC ends and whether they continue or, roll back on those reforms. But given their National Plan of Action (and I think they’ll bid for an Olympics) returning to the old days of Kafala would be a mistake in my view.
I’m no longer there and don’t work on labour law and migrant workers issues. But in relation to the construction sector, the alarming mortality rate has thankfully been receded as Q increased its H&S knowledge. They’ve conducted the largest research on heat stress involving 5,000 workers, resulting in Laws and changes to working times/practices. As a result, their research is probably the global benchmark on the topic. Kafala was repealed; and changes to the labour law complaints system (ETs in the UK) were made to make it easier for workers to complain.
A lot more done besides (and still to do) during Covid and then draining effects/cost of preparing for the WC and a blockade/dispute with SA and other Gulf countries. So some credit is due.
Football has been the catalyst for this. I know for a fact that Infantino has weighed in to encouragie reforms. And while Amnesty - rightly keep the pressure on - I sat in meetings with the government and once highly critical global trade unions, who’ve also heaped praise on Q for their efforts.
All that being said, and on a solely football basis, I’m still puzzled why (well we’ve a good idea how they got it) the WC was awarded to Doha. I/you have played in front of bigger crowds than attend some of the QSL games I went to, and the sight of the desert punctuated by huge stadiums in the middle of nowhere, that won’t ever get filled afterwards, is just odd.
History will decide if Q used football to forge reform or, they beat SA on sportswashing. However, with Covid still lurking; a cost of living crisis looming; the human rights concerns that exist; and right on the doorstep of Xmas, I wouldn’t be surprised if this WC falls short. I know ticket sales are sluggish and with a few months to go, they still haven’t resolved the beer issue! Personally from my time there, not sure how they’ll cope with ‘difficult’ fans.
As for SA: where do you begin with that lot… |  |
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| saudi golf on 07:10 - Jul 22 with 778 views | essextaxiboy |
| saudi golf on 03:27 - Jul 22 by PlanetHonneywood |
You’ve put it quite fairly, and Q is seeking to position itself as a sporting hub.
The difference with Q and SA, is that Q have made far-reaching reforms. But I caveat that by saying: we’ll know how serious they are after the WC ends and whether they continue or, roll back on those reforms. But given their National Plan of Action (and I think they’ll bid for an Olympics) returning to the old days of Kafala would be a mistake in my view.
I’m no longer there and don’t work on labour law and migrant workers issues. But in relation to the construction sector, the alarming mortality rate has thankfully been receded as Q increased its H&S knowledge. They’ve conducted the largest research on heat stress involving 5,000 workers, resulting in Laws and changes to working times/practices. As a result, their research is probably the global benchmark on the topic. Kafala was repealed; and changes to the labour law complaints system (ETs in the UK) were made to make it easier for workers to complain.
A lot more done besides (and still to do) during Covid and then draining effects/cost of preparing for the WC and a blockade/dispute with SA and other Gulf countries. So some credit is due.
Football has been the catalyst for this. I know for a fact that Infantino has weighed in to encouragie reforms. And while Amnesty - rightly keep the pressure on - I sat in meetings with the government and once highly critical global trade unions, who’ve also heaped praise on Q for their efforts.
All that being said, and on a solely football basis, I’m still puzzled why (well we’ve a good idea how they got it) the WC was awarded to Doha. I/you have played in front of bigger crowds than attend some of the QSL games I went to, and the sight of the desert punctuated by huge stadiums in the middle of nowhere, that won’t ever get filled afterwards, is just odd.
History will decide if Q used football to forge reform or, they beat SA on sportswashing. However, with Covid still lurking; a cost of living crisis looming; the human rights concerns that exist; and right on the doorstep of Xmas, I wouldn’t be surprised if this WC falls short. I know ticket sales are sluggish and with a few months to go, they still haven’t resolved the beer issue! Personally from my time there, not sure how they’ll cope with ‘difficult’ fans.
As for SA: where do you begin with that lot… |
I have 2 boys who work for FIFA commercial (both ST holders at Rangers) who will be out there working at the WC .
They tell me that you will be able to get a beer at the Stadiums , Fan Zones and Hotels .
I think its important that we dont lump all of them in with the Saudis , they are the ones who should be outcast ...IMO | | | |
| saudi golf on 07:16 - Jul 22 with 760 views | essextaxiboy |
| saudi golf on 16:33 - Jun 9 by Mick_S |
Phil may need another jet. You never know what may happen. |
I was told that Jack Nicklaus was offered 100 mil just to be an ambassador for LIV | | | |
| saudi golf on 07:25 - Jul 22 with 754 views | distortR |
| saudi golf on 07:10 - Jul 22 by essextaxiboy |
I have 2 boys who work for FIFA commercial (both ST holders at Rangers) who will be out there working at the WC .
They tell me that you will be able to get a beer at the Stadiums , Fan Zones and Hotels .
I think its important that we dont lump all of them in with the Saudis , they are the ones who should be outcast ...IMO |
So Qatar has improved now, after being awarded the world cup in 2010 and fifa starting to exert a miniscule of pressure on them from 2020, and Amnesty's latest report saying progress on stopping exploitation of migrant works has stalled and even gone backwards in some cases.
By your reasoning, surely we should award the next world cup to saudi in the hope they improve on their human rights violations? In 12 years time we may be saying that the golfers decision to take $$$, just like footballers, was instrumental in making saudi a bit less horrible? Maybe if you can get a beer in the club house?
This may appear that I'm having a go at you Essex, and your boys, trust me I'm not. Just trying to make my point. | | | |
| saudi golf on 09:25 - Jul 22 with 660 views | essextaxiboy |
| saudi golf on 07:25 - Jul 22 by distortR |
So Qatar has improved now, after being awarded the world cup in 2010 and fifa starting to exert a miniscule of pressure on them from 2020, and Amnesty's latest report saying progress on stopping exploitation of migrant works has stalled and even gone backwards in some cases.
By your reasoning, surely we should award the next world cup to saudi in the hope they improve on their human rights violations? In 12 years time we may be saying that the golfers decision to take $$$, just like footballers, was instrumental in making saudi a bit less horrible? Maybe if you can get a beer in the club house?
This may appear that I'm having a go at you Essex, and your boys, trust me I'm not. Just trying to make my point. |
Fair do,s. I do get a bit prickly when I read ‘ FIFA? They are all corrupt ‘ . | | | |
| saudi golf on 10:53 - Jul 22 with 599 views | PlanetHonneywood |
| saudi golf on 07:10 - Jul 22 by essextaxiboy |
I have 2 boys who work for FIFA commercial (both ST holders at Rangers) who will be out there working at the WC .
They tell me that you will be able to get a beer at the Stadiums , Fan Zones and Hotels .
I think its important that we dont lump all of them in with the Saudis , they are the ones who should be outcast ...IMO |
I actually drank more in Q than the countries I was in before and now.
So it’s available for sure but the hotels are all top-end brands, expensive and no doubt prices will be hiked accordingly. However, given the numbers that will eventually arrive, not sure they’ll have enough outlets, and you won’t get into the rugby club for the cheapest servings.
Equally, they’re more used to well behaved expats who don’t kick off and unlike every other WC, fans will be in one city, not spread out across a big country to dissipate trouble.
The stadiums, well no matter where in the world I’ve been, they’re often a pain. But glad sorted. We had Gary Neville in our office to interview my boss. I got talking to him and he said he’d been assured: beer would flow. But then, at the time, there was talk Q would write Budweiser a cheque to do one.
I think a lot of folks will hop in, out from Dubai but up until a short while ago, the thinking about fanzones was that ‘all’ fans could go there! Great idea put a load of English, Dutch, German, Italian and other notorious chaps with ancient rivalries in a confined area with booze.
Again, not sure how their policing will cope. I recall they planned to bring in a lot of migrant workers as security guards. But getting them ‘match fit’ will be interesting. I’ve no doubt some of our enlightened chaps will run amok in the Malls. | |
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