| Scunthorpe 21:14 - Sep 20 with 20710 views | blackdogblue |
Omfg… I thought our “neighbours” chairman says it as is after a beer…
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| Scunthorpe on 22:12 - Sep 20 with 11288 views | Dalenet |
WOW. Doesn't hold back does he. If he has ploughed that much cash in, you can see why he is aggrieved. Interesting that their playing budget is circa £1.2m. If you read the article, it implies it was a similar sum when in the National League - although I am sure there is some selective recollection of the exact sums. But he has done the right thing and savaged the headcount to ensure they can afford to survive |  | | |
| Scunthorpe on 01:29 - Sep 21 with 11141 views | fermin |
It all looks very messy. Both pieces show the expense of keeping a professional club afloat at this level without someone putting their own money in. It makes you wonder why anyone would sink that amount of money in to a club. No wonder we are having issues getting an investor. [Post edited 21 Sep 2023 1:30]
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| Scunthorpe on 17:10 - Sep 21 with 10622 views | NorthernDale |
Sadly there are to many clubs in a similar position, football needs some form of reform to ensure teams at every level survive's. | | | |
| Scunthorpe on 17:34 - Sep 21 with 10578 views | blackdogblue |
Not just football… how can our neighbours justify a league of 8 teams now 🤷♂️ | |
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| Scunthorpe on 23:05 - Sep 21 with 10321 views | EllDale |
I don’t think they can. Apparently they’re toying with the idea of tweaking the fixtures so that you play some teams more than once.
Hard luck if you get Cornwall away twice. The thing is, extra games mean extra costs, and if you’re losing money anyway the problem only gets compounded.
I was talking to a friend who’s on the coaching staff at a Super League club and he says the IMG consultancy is merely a more humane way of culling the dead wood from the professional game over the next 18 months. | | | |
| Scunthorpe on 05:52 - Sep 22 with 10222 views | pioneer |
| Scunthorpe on 17:34 - Sep 21 by blackdogblue |
Not just football… how can our neighbours justify a league of 8 teams now 🤷♂️ |
Its actually 9 teams. But your point stands.
For a sport that has supposedly been on a programme of expansion for many years they now have three more teams than in the 1960s and 70s.
If IMG is a way of getting rid of what they consider deadwood that will leave 24 teams ….80% of the league size in those good old days.
I suspect they wont be happy until they are down to a closed shop of 12 teams only.
This all started when Maurice Lindsay, wearing two hats, led the game into the hands of Murdochs millions.
Interesting that GB/England havent beaten Australia since then. | | | |
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| Scunthorpe on 11:52 - Sep 22 with 10007 views | blackdogblue |
| Scunthorpe on 05:52 - Sep 22 by pioneer |
Its actually 9 teams. But your point stands.
For a sport that has supposedly been on a programme of expansion for many years they now have three more teams than in the 1960s and 70s.
If IMG is a way of getting rid of what they consider deadwood that will leave 24 teams ….80% of the league size in those good old days.
I suspect they wont be happy until they are down to a closed shop of 12 teams only.
This all started when Maurice Lindsay, wearing two hats, led the game into the hands of Murdochs millions.
Interesting that GB/England havent beaten Australia since then. |
True... apologies, I should have said it differently, it was around only 8 home / away fixtures.
I cannot see the Skolars being the last to think what is the point and with the dwindling crowds and reading some of the points on the other neighbours thread, no promotion or relegation??
Where is the sustainability and what is the actual point of the league structure, is it just a pride thing? | |
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| Scunthorpe on 22:21 - Sep 22 with 9638 views | pioneer |
| Scunthorpe on 11:52 - Sep 22 by blackdogblue |
True... apologies, I should have said it differently, it was around only 8 home / away fixtures.
I cannot see the Skolars being the last to think what is the point and with the dwindling crowds and reading some of the points on the other neighbours thread, no promotion or relegation??
Where is the sustainability and what is the actual point of the league structure, is it just a pride thing? |
P&R. continues between league 1 and championship. Its just Super League which is ending P & R (again).
A further nail in the RL coffing in this country | | | |
| Scunthorpe on 08:41 - Sep 23 with 9445 views | James1980 |
EON taking legal action against Southend due to unpaid leccy bill | |
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| Scunthorpe on 19:48 - Sep 25 with 8990 views | 442Dale |
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| Scunthorpe on 04:47 - Sep 26 with 8620 views | TalkingSutty |
| Scunthorpe on 19:48 - Sep 25 by 442Dale |
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Thankfully we don't have a club owner. Who would want to support a club with a owner like that anyway. |  | | |
| Scunthorpe on 08:20 - Sep 26 with 8480 views | D_Alien |
| Scunthorpe on 04:47 - Sep 26 by TalkingSutty |
Thankfully we don't have a club owner. Who would want to support a club with a owner like that anyway. |
That's a significant point that needs highlighting
However well-intentioned a new and vetted owner might appear at first, how would they react to criticism, from a position of authority?
Just look how the present board have changed their tune from when they first took on their roles
If we really are stuck with no option other than a majority shareholder coming in, maybe we'd better start practicing our arse-licking skills?
(We all know, that's just not the Dale way, apart from the usual club hangers-on, and we know who they are) |  |
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| Scunthorpe on 09:30 - Sep 26 with 8373 views | TalkingSutty |
| Scunthorpe on 08:20 - Sep 26 by D_Alien |
That's a significant point that needs highlighting
However well-intentioned a new and vetted owner might appear at first, how would they react to criticism, from a position of authority?
Just look how the present board have changed their tune from when they first took on their roles
If we really are stuck with no option other than a majority shareholder coming in, maybe we'd better start practicing our arse-licking skills?
(We all know, that's just not the Dale way, apart from the usual club hangers-on, and we know who they are) |
Very true that. My worry is that a 'clean skin' is found to pass the appropriate checks but he/she/ they are associated with shysters who are lurking in the shadows...to be introduced into the club further down the line. I think that's a tactic that shysters will now use to circumnavigate scrutinisation, put forward a front man to firstly get the keys to club. My preference was always fan owned and run, probably relocating and operating at a lower level if needs be, the thought of outsiders having control of our club saddens me. | | | |
| Scunthorpe on 10:40 - Sep 26 with 8258 views | D_Alien |
| Scunthorpe on 09:30 - Sep 26 by TalkingSutty |
Very true that. My worry is that a 'clean skin' is found to pass the appropriate checks but he/she/ they are associated with shysters who are lurking in the shadows...to be introduced into the club further down the line. I think that's a tactic that shysters will now use to circumnavigate scrutinisation, put forward a front man to firstly get the keys to club. My preference was always fan owned and run, probably relocating and operating at a lower level if needs be, the thought of outsiders having control of our club saddens me. |
I know that relocation/lower cost base was an idea you put forward back in Spring, before the series of Trust meetings
That would be my preference too, over an outside majority shareholder with potential hidden dangers - better the financial dangers we know
Whilst the Trust meetings were useful in themselves and resulted in great ideas with more togetherness, can we honestly say the club has moved forward from there, off the pitch? Somehow, the beginnings of a recovery of morale on the pitch just highlight the need to get things sorted for the future
We've seen with the 442 thread that initiatives are falling by the wayside. BJ's got a Plan B - what's OUR Plan B?
[Post edited 26 Sep 2023 12:08]
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| Scunthorpe on 11:03 - Sep 26 with 8205 views | dalemark |
I'm beginning to feel the board have been lucky to avoid prolonged criticism - last season frustrations were aimed at on the pitch problems... this season, thanks to McNulty & the squad, it becomes easy to hide behind better performances on the pitch.
The club deserve credit for the McNulty appointment, and also for the retro kit launch (albeit that was in process from last season).
This week looks busy, with expected / promised activities being:
- Chesterfield (H) on Tuesday night
- Planned volunteer army on Thursday (now with less than 72 hrs notice)
- Season Card hospitality draw & winner announcement
- I think I read that the Season Card team photo was to be announced this week too?
Since the EGM & the Fans Forum, I haven't seen any improvements or any drive to sort off the pitch stuff out. People who offered help after the forum haven't had responses and highlighted issues still persist. What has happened on the back of the (really good) Trust focus groups? I think its fair to now say the club are saying one thing and doing another, whilst paying the Trust lip service at best.
The club feels paralysed everywhere apart from on the pitch. We're not bothered about improving things now - as TS has suggested, our eggs are in one basket and the ONLY priority / activity now is to find an investor. |  | | |
| Scunthorpe on 13:16 - Sep 26 with 7972 views | TalkingSutty |
| Scunthorpe on 10:40 - Sep 26 by D_Alien |
I know that relocation/lower cost base was an idea you put forward back in Spring, before the series of Trust meetings
That would be my preference too, over an outside majority shareholder with potential hidden dangers - better the financial dangers we know
Whilst the Trust meetings were useful in themselves and resulted in great ideas with more togetherness, can we honestly say the club has moved forward from there, off the pitch? Somehow, the beginnings of a recovery of morale on the pitch just highlight the need to get things sorted for the future
We've seen with the 442 thread that initiatives are falling by the wayside. BJ's got a Plan B - what's OUR Plan B?
[Post edited 26 Sep 2023 12:08]
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I still dont really understand why unless we get a financial investor, as a club we could be looking at liquidation. We have more resources and a higher support base than many clubs outside the EFL and we own our stadium. How are these other clubs managing and it's wrong to suggest that they all have wealthy financial backers because they don't. Not just clubs in the National League but the ones below. From a outsider looking in I see a club that is just being left to bob along and there is no desire from those in the Boardroom to have a long term plan to improve every aspect of the club. Their only desire is to off load the club and recoup their outlay. I'm not having it that our club is in a worse financial state than other clubs in those league and the the National North..most of those clubs don't even own their grounds for a start and can only dream of averaging home gates around 2500. [Post edited 26 Sep 2023 13:19]
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| Scunthorpe on 16:22 - Sep 26 with 7778 views | fermin |
| Scunthorpe on 13:16 - Sep 26 by TalkingSutty |
I still dont really understand why unless we get a financial investor, as a club we could be looking at liquidation. We have more resources and a higher support base than many clubs outside the EFL and we own our stadium. How are these other clubs managing and it's wrong to suggest that they all have wealthy financial backers because they don't. Not just clubs in the National League but the ones below. From a outsider looking in I see a club that is just being left to bob along and there is no desire from those in the Boardroom to have a long term plan to improve every aspect of the club. Their only desire is to off load the club and recoup their outlay. I'm not having it that our club is in a worse financial state than other clubs in those league and the the National North..most of those clubs don't even own their grounds for a start and can only dream of averaging home gates around 2500. [Post edited 26 Sep 2023 13:19]
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Putting aside the liquidation question I can think of a few differences:
- we have a bigger ground which has more fixed costs and requires more maintenance;
- we are not paying a realistic price for season tickets (Oxford City's are higher for instance) so our contribution towards the costs is not sufficient;
- most of the clubs in the leagues below are part time;
- our fanbase is geared towards a return to the EFL rather than existence in this league or a lower one.
I think the last is an important point. For a lot of clubs in this league and the league below this is either a high point or where they expect to be. On the other hand for us it is the lowest point of our history and we find ourselves going to grounds like Oxford City, Dorking and Borehamwood, all of whom are very successful clubs in their own terms.
For my part, I am not that bothered about being in non-league as long as the club survives and does its best to be successful on and off the pitch. However, I suspect that if the board were to say, for example, that for us to survive financially we have to go part time and maybe stay in the NL or NLN for the foreseeable future then they would get a lot of criticism. How many others would give up the prospect of a return to the EFL? Your vision sounds good to me, but I think it needs a readjustment of expectations and an acceptance of these realities. I wonder if we might be forced into it whether we want it or not.
There is a lot more the club can do off the pitch to engage the fanbase and get them involved in practical ways as that is common in non-league. I have to say I continue to be rather disappointed about this aspect at the same time as being pleasantly surprised at the performances and attitude of the team. I think Jim McNulty is giving the impression of being a very good man-manager which is a very important part of his job. | | | |
| Scunthorpe on 16:43 - Sep 26 with 7738 views | blackdogblue |
Talking of comparisons let’s take FC United….
The person who shall remain nameless as we don’t know who she is actually by all accounts did very well in promoting the club, attracting sponsorships, other financial income and in doing so well got a high job at Gold Trafford…
By comparison, one of the young kids at our place is a First Team player this season and think he has played every game so far… he gets a couple of hundred quid per game & travelling expenses for training etc…. He is not on wage so gets nowt during the summer… | |
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| Scunthorpe on 17:04 - Sep 26 with 7648 views | TalkingSutty |
| Scunthorpe on 16:22 - Sep 26 by fermin |
Putting aside the liquidation question I can think of a few differences:
- we have a bigger ground which has more fixed costs and requires more maintenance;
- we are not paying a realistic price for season tickets (Oxford City's are higher for instance) so our contribution towards the costs is not sufficient;
- most of the clubs in the leagues below are part time;
- our fanbase is geared towards a return to the EFL rather than existence in this league or a lower one.
I think the last is an important point. For a lot of clubs in this league and the league below this is either a high point or where they expect to be. On the other hand for us it is the lowest point of our history and we find ourselves going to grounds like Oxford City, Dorking and Borehamwood, all of whom are very successful clubs in their own terms.
For my part, I am not that bothered about being in non-league as long as the club survives and does its best to be successful on and off the pitch. However, I suspect that if the board were to say, for example, that for us to survive financially we have to go part time and maybe stay in the NL or NLN for the foreseeable future then they would get a lot of criticism. How many others would give up the prospect of a return to the EFL? Your vision sounds good to me, but I think it needs a readjustment of expectations and an acceptance of these realities. I wonder if we might be forced into it whether we want it or not.
There is a lot more the club can do off the pitch to engage the fanbase and get them involved in practical ways as that is common in non-league. I have to say I continue to be rather disappointed about this aspect at the same time as being pleasantly surprised at the performances and attitude of the team. I think Jim McNulty is giving the impression of being a very good man-manager which is a very important part of his job. |
Agree with a lot of that but I'm also making comparison with many clubs in our league, they all seem to be well run despite having much lower crowds than we do and not having a stadium that must be worth in excess of £3 million. Why did our Chairman mention the word liquidation if we don't find a investor, yet you don't hear that doomsday scenario from any other club in our league? ..Southend have a basket case owner so don't count. I might sound cynical and that's because i am. I've never seen those in the Boardroom even try to engage the Town when it comes to supporting the team, no rallying cries, no advertisement campaign regarding season tickets etc . They don't even communicate with the shareholders and supporters never mind the public of Rochdale. So yes, I'm cynical and don't believe the club is being given a chance to run in a sustainable manner, with every financial avenue explored. There has never been the will since the MH shares were bought back. The biggest surprise to me is the lack of concern from shareholders and supporters, this is supposed to be a fan owned club. [Post edited 26 Sep 2023 17:09]
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| Scunthorpe on 17:18 - Sep 26 with 7610 views | Rodingdale |
| Scunthorpe on 16:22 - Sep 26 by fermin |
Putting aside the liquidation question I can think of a few differences:
- we have a bigger ground which has more fixed costs and requires more maintenance;
- we are not paying a realistic price for season tickets (Oxford City's are higher for instance) so our contribution towards the costs is not sufficient;
- most of the clubs in the leagues below are part time;
- our fanbase is geared towards a return to the EFL rather than existence in this league or a lower one.
I think the last is an important point. For a lot of clubs in this league and the league below this is either a high point or where they expect to be. On the other hand for us it is the lowest point of our history and we find ourselves going to grounds like Oxford City, Dorking and Borehamwood, all of whom are very successful clubs in their own terms.
For my part, I am not that bothered about being in non-league as long as the club survives and does its best to be successful on and off the pitch. However, I suspect that if the board were to say, for example, that for us to survive financially we have to go part time and maybe stay in the NL or NLN for the foreseeable future then they would get a lot of criticism. How many others would give up the prospect of a return to the EFL? Your vision sounds good to me, but I think it needs a readjustment of expectations and an acceptance of these realities. I wonder if we might be forced into it whether we want it or not.
There is a lot more the club can do off the pitch to engage the fanbase and get them involved in practical ways as that is common in non-league. I have to say I continue to be rather disappointed about this aspect at the same time as being pleasantly surprised at the performances and attitude of the team. I think Jim McNulty is giving the impression of being a very good man-manager which is a very important part of his job. |
Another reason is the clubs complete lack of interest in maximising off field profitability. A great example being the Borehamwood screening in the Ratcliffe. Why didn’t the club anticipate this opportunity at the start of the season and promote a series of evenings. I understand the evening was profitable as well as engaging with fans positively but only possible because the trust paid the subscription fee. The absolute lack of imagination and acumen is quite stunning. Small beer it may be on its own but the same principle applied to everything would add up to a material income. Just what are the commercial team doing!? | | | |
| Scunthorpe on 17:19 - Sep 26 with 7611 views | dalemark |
| Scunthorpe on 17:04 - Sep 26 by TalkingSutty |
Agree with a lot of that but I'm also making comparison with many clubs in our league, they all seem to be well run despite having much lower crowds than we do and not having a stadium that must be worth in excess of £3 million. Why did our Chairman mention the word liquidation if we don't find a investor, yet you don't hear that doomsday scenario from any other club in our league? ..Southend have a basket case owner so don't count. I might sound cynical and that's because i am. I've never seen those in the Boardroom even try to engage the Town when it comes to supporting the team, no rallying cries, no advertisement campaign regarding season tickets etc . They don't even communicate with the shareholders and supporters never mind the public of Rochdale. So yes, I'm cynical and don't believe the club is being given a chance to run in a sustainable manner, with every financial avenue explored. There has never been the will since the MH shares were bought back. The biggest surprise to me is the lack of concern from shareholders and supporters, this is supposed to be a fan owned club. [Post edited 26 Sep 2023 17:09]
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I believe the motion passed at the EGM was approval of the director loan 'if required', & it will be a board decision / vote (excluding Simon Gauge & Richard Knight) as to if / when it is used?
Questions need to be asked by fans,shareholders, & publicly by the Trust, about why nothing else has been done to improve revenue / cashflow if that loan ends up being drawn down.
If more had been done, would we need the loan? If yes, would we need as much of it?
The article that Judd has shared about Exeter is interesting... I get that their trust membership is bigger than our total matchgoing fanbase, but there is absolutely nothing in there that we couldn't do as fans / volunteers. | | | |
| Scunthorpe on 17:36 - Sep 26 with 7569 views | TalkingSutty |
| Scunthorpe on 17:19 - Sep 26 by dalemark |
I believe the motion passed at the EGM was approval of the director loan 'if required', & it will be a board decision / vote (excluding Simon Gauge & Richard Knight) as to if / when it is used?
Questions need to be asked by fans,shareholders, & publicly by the Trust, about why nothing else has been done to improve revenue / cashflow if that loan ends up being drawn down.
If more had been done, would we need the loan? If yes, would we need as much of it?
The article that Judd has shared about Exeter is interesting... I get that their trust membership is bigger than our total matchgoing fanbase, but there is absolutely nothing in there that we couldn't do as fans / volunteers. |
Tunnel vision, focused on the end goal. The Chairman and the board of Directors are only interested in bringing in a investor and recouping their outlay. They want their money back and probably don't have the time, desire or commitment to look at turning the club around themselves. That's perfectly understandable because what they did in fighting off MH and stumping up their money was brilliant. They should now all be upfront though and state that they've taken the club as far as they can and as shareholders, the Trust, fans let's help with a exit strategy and one that would recoup them a lot of their outlay. There must be a way of refinancing the stadium for example and releasing some money. As a Club we need a boardroom full of people who are hungry to progress the club and have the time and connections to make a difference. Do our current boardroom tick those boxes? I think it's time for some honesty and straight talking, if we can't find a investor we need new people in the boardroom and a new Chairman with a desire to drive the club forward and a personality that people can warm to. [Post edited 26 Sep 2023 17:44]
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| Scunthorpe on 17:50 - Sep 26 with 7506 views | James1980 |
| Scunthorpe on 17:18 - Sep 26 by Rodingdale |
Another reason is the clubs complete lack of interest in maximising off field profitability. A great example being the Borehamwood screening in the Ratcliffe. Why didn’t the club anticipate this opportunity at the start of the season and promote a series of evenings. I understand the evening was profitable as well as engaging with fans positively but only possible because the trust paid the subscription fee. The absolute lack of imagination and acumen is quite stunning. Small beer it may be on its own but the same principle applied to everything would add up to a material income. Just what are the commercial team doing!? |
I'd be interested to know the following. How are plans for an in house lottery progressing?
Have the club looked into the whole dark kitchen thing seriously, consulted someone in the catering trade about what exactly is required and how much it will cost? (From what I've heard £40k very was optimistic if the wanted to install a multi cuisine DK)
Also as has been mentioned recently what about Christmas/Festive Season parties? | |
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