| Welsh clubs having their cake and eating it 20:49 - Jan 13 with 2922 views | loftboy |
Being allowed to compete in the Welsh league cup with entry into Europe for the winners. |  |
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| Welsh clubs having their cake and eating it on 12:21 - Jan 14 with 847 views | Juzzie |
I have no problem with Cardiff, Swansea, Wrexham, Newport etc playing in the EFL/EPL but when in that affiliation, that's it, you play the same competitions as everyone else in the same affiliation.
What next... Shrewsbury, Hereford or even Bristol City/Rovers wanting to join too on the basis that if the Welsh clubs can competing in the EFL/PL they should be able to compete in the Welsh Cup?
Carlisle might ask to participate in the Scottish League & SFA Cup?
Where does it end?
As said, I thought all this was put to bed years ago, not sure who/why it's now deemed a possibility again. |  | | |
| Welsh clubs having their cake and eating it on 12:43 - Jan 14 with 791 views | terryb |
| Welsh clubs having their cake and eating it on 11:52 - Jan 14 by Welsh_Ranger |
OK. I understand your viewpoint.
Yes, it probably will be easier for one of the four to win the Welsh cup than it would be for us to qualify for Europe. Qualifying and competing are two different things though, they would have to give the competition due respect and as we have seen and discussed on other chats the likes of Brentford still prioritize the league over actually winning silverware.
For clubs like Bangor like in the FA Cup its a chance to test themselves against a better standard of teams and in a one off situation such as the magic of the cup you might get a different outcome. TNS have themselves as a Welsh league club been able to qualify and compete in Europe.
As i said in my youth the big four used to play in the Welsh cup but didn't really take it seriously and at that stage their was an opportunity to play in Europe as well.
Going back to my original post, these clubs rightly or wrongly have been competing in the EFL since before I was born and have been accepted into the pyramid. If it gets ratified by the FA then it will be reviewed in four years time by the FAW and the relevant bodies. |
They certainly took it seriously in my youth. Cardiff reached the semi final of the European Cup Winners Cup in the 67-68 season losing to Hamburg. AC Milan won it after a German double, beating the defending champions Bayern in the semi.
Tottenham lost in the second round to Lyon. |  | | |
| Welsh clubs having their cake and eating it on 13:17 - Jan 14 with 765 views | Welsh_Ranger |
| Welsh clubs having their cake and eating it on 12:15 - Jan 14 by PlanetHonneywood |
Remember when we traveled down there for the 2003 POF and were told, that while the Welsh national anthem was necessary, the playing of GSTQ would anger the locals or some such tosh! Not that I give a flying rat's backside about national anthems, it shows their football mentality in a somewhat petulant light in my humble.
Of course, what would stir it up would be if the English FA said: you can play in your country's cup competitions, but either not in ours or, English clubs should be invited as well. Now of course, UEFA would be very irate at Welsh and maybe English clubs getting two goes at having their Welsh cake (delicious as they are) and wanting to eat it, but anyone know what their take is on this?
I'm sure many Welsh teams actually playing in the Welsh football set-up are not too happy either. Maybe it's time to tell Swansea, Cardiff and Wrexham that in the interests of Welsh football, it would be best if they stayed on the other side of Offa's Dyke!! |
The Welsh clubs by and large are supporting this decision, it would bring increased interest, gate receipts and challenges to the existing clubs. The agreement with the 4 is that the monies won't go to them but to be distributed among the league clubs.
I didn't know about the situation with the play off final and if that is the case i don't support that decision.
The four, are forgoing qualification in the league cup and FA Cup so if they were to win they wouldn't qualify.
Finally, without repeating the same stuff those four clubs have been in the EFL for longer than i have been alive as the Welsh league never really existed - similar happened with the MLS and Canadian clubs. Plenty of examples around Europe of teams playing in different leagues to the country they are from. | | | |
| Welsh clubs having their cake and eating it on 13:17 - Jan 14 with 764 views | DannyPaddox |
| Welsh clubs having their cake and eating it on 11:16 - Jan 14 by PlanetHonneywood |
I can handle that more than I can the prospect of being on the wrong end of a shoeing from Llanfairpwllgwyngyllgogerychwyrndrobwllllantysiliogogogoch FC.
Longest town name in the UK and if you ever hear a Welsh lass pronounce that, it sounds similar to the noise she'll make when she's having a nosh! |
Can you imagine two thousand Rs fans singing,
Llanfairpwllgwyngyllgogerychwyrndrobwllllantysiliogogogoch’s a shîthole, I wanna go home?
No I can’t either. |  | | |
| Welsh clubs having their cake and eating it on 13:21 - Jan 14 with 759 views | Welsh_Ranger |
| Welsh clubs having their cake and eating it on 12:43 - Jan 14 by terryb |
They certainly took it seriously in my youth. Cardiff reached the semi final of the European Cup Winners Cup in the 67-68 season losing to Hamburg. AC Milan won it after a German double, beating the defending champions Bayern in the semi.
Tottenham lost in the second round to Lyon. |
AHH Terry,
Different eras, i think i might be a little younger! I just remember in the 90's CCFC etc not really caring!
As much as i'm very much a QPR fan i'm also very invested in the development of football in Wales and hoping to see us thrive as a football nation.
Thank you for the debate so far! | | | |
| Welsh clubs having their cake and eating it on 14:16 - Jan 14 with 689 views | Rangersw12 |
| Welsh clubs having their cake and eating it on 13:17 - Jan 14 by Welsh_Ranger |
The Welsh clubs by and large are supporting this decision, it would bring increased interest, gate receipts and challenges to the existing clubs. The agreement with the 4 is that the monies won't go to them but to be distributed among the league clubs.
I didn't know about the situation with the play off final and if that is the case i don't support that decision.
The four, are forgoing qualification in the league cup and FA Cup so if they were to win they wouldn't qualify.
Finally, without repeating the same stuff those four clubs have been in the EFL for longer than i have been alive as the Welsh league never really existed - similar happened with the MLS and Canadian clubs. Plenty of examples around Europe of teams playing in different leagues to the country they are from. |
Taking the I want an easy route for QPR to Europe aswell opinion out of it then it's great for the Welsh League and if it increases revenue and interest then it's fantastic.
You would have hoped with the success of the national team getting to tournaments nowadays that the Welsh FA would try and get investment into the league and increase the standard as I'm sure football has probably never been more popular in Wales ?
Regarding the Welsh cup why is this being talked about again and where has it come from ? | | | |
| Welsh clubs having their cake and eating it on 14:55 - Jan 14 with 663 views | Lanhoop |
| Welsh clubs having their cake and eating it on 14:16 - Jan 14 by Rangersw12 |
Taking the I want an easy route for QPR to Europe aswell opinion out of it then it's great for the Welsh League and if it increases revenue and interest then it's fantastic.
You would have hoped with the success of the national team getting to tournaments nowadays that the Welsh FA would try and get investment into the league and increase the standard as I'm sure football has probably never been more popular in Wales ?
Regarding the Welsh cup why is this being talked about again and where has it come from ? |
I believe it's being talked about again because Disney channel want something more in their Wrexham/Hollywood documentary thing.
I'm all for Welsh football developing but they are just using that as an excuse. Is that "leek-washing" or something ? | | | |
| Welsh clubs having their cake and eating it on 15:22 - Jan 14 with 635 views | PlanetHonneywood |
| Welsh clubs having their cake and eating it on 14:55 - Jan 14 by Lanhoop |
I believe it's being talked about again because Disney channel want something more in their Wrexham/Hollywood documentary thing.
I'm all for Welsh football developing but they are just using that as an excuse. Is that "leek-washing" or something ? |
Leek polishing more like! But yeah, I could see impetus for this coming from what's left of La-La land. |  |
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| Welsh clubs having their cake and eating it on 15:25 - Jan 14 with 625 views | Juzzie |
Football really is dead if we have companies like Disney wanting to dictate how things are done. The Welsh FA should tell them to fark orf but money talks and has controlled football for the last few decades. | | | |
| Welsh clubs having their cake and eating it on 15:29 - Jan 14 with 611 views | kensalriser |
| Welsh clubs having their cake and eating it on 15:25 - Jan 14 by Juzzie |
Football really is dead if we have companies like Disney wanting to dictate how things are done. The Welsh FA should tell them to fark orf but money talks and has controlled football for the last few decades. |
Is Disney any worse than <autocratic Gulf oil state of your choice> ? |  |
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| Welsh clubs having their cake and eating it on 16:00 - Jan 14 with 575 views | Welsh_Ranger |
| Welsh clubs having their cake and eating it on 14:55 - Jan 14 by Lanhoop |
I believe it's being talked about again because Disney channel want something more in their Wrexham/Hollywood documentary thing.
I'm all for Welsh football developing but they are just using that as an excuse. Is that "leek-washing" or something ? |
So from what I understand, the FAW has conducted a review of the Cymru league, its expanding the format to 16 teams and part of that restructure has been to look at ways of making the league more attractive and increase revenue blah blah blah.
They have been consulting with the four to see if they would be in favour for a while now and trying to work through the varying complications and making sure it is viable with the FA UEFA so as to not have a detrimental effect on the four.
The FAW are already pumping millions back into the Welsh game courtesy of our relative success over the last decade that has increased its popularity as a sport and the revenue from qualifications to major tournaments.
Naturally the next step is to make the league a more attractive proposition, increase footfall and grow the domestic game.
I don't personally know if Disney have an angle but trust that the FAW are looking at the best interests of the game in Wales | | | |
| Welsh clubs having their cake and eating it on 16:44 - Jan 14 with 544 views | hantssi |
| Welsh clubs having their cake and eating it on 12:21 - Jan 14 by Juzzie |
I have no problem with Cardiff, Swansea, Wrexham, Newport etc playing in the EFL/EPL but when in that affiliation, that's it, you play the same competitions as everyone else in the same affiliation.
What next... Shrewsbury, Hereford or even Bristol City/Rovers wanting to join too on the basis that if the Welsh clubs can competing in the EFL/PL they should be able to compete in the Welsh Cup?
Carlisle might ask to participate in the Scottish League & SFA Cup?
Where does it end?
As said, I thought all this was put to bed years ago, not sure who/why it's now deemed a possibility again. |
Berwick Rangers play in the Scottish league!! | | | |
| Welsh clubs having their cake and eating it on 16:48 - Jan 14 with 539 views | NewBee |
Irrespective of the technicalities, and the reasoned arguments from WelshRanger, somehow this doesn't "smell right" to me.
Imo these four clubs should just have to choose to be fully Welsh (and leave the EFL), or continue with the hybrid whose benefits they've enjoyed for over 100 years now (i.e. no Welsh League Cup-to-Europe backdoor).
And speaking about being "fully Welsh" reminds me of 25-odd years ago(?) at Griffin Park, when Bees were up against a lot of clubs like Hereford, Shrewsbury and Bristol Rovers etc.
When they came to town, their fans were inevitably subjected to "You're Welsh and you know you are" - childishly amusing, if hardly original. This was then extended when Swindon, then Oxford arrived. It reached its peak for the visit of Reading, which must have baffled a few Biscuitmen! [Post edited 14 Jan 17:02]
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| Welsh clubs having their cake and eating it on 17:01 - Jan 14 with 528 views | GaryHaddock |
| Welsh clubs having their cake and eating it on 16:44 - Jan 14 by hantssi |
Berwick Rangers play in the Scottish league!! |
Only just.
They are in a bit of a pickle. |  | | |
| Welsh clubs having their cake and eating it on 17:28 - Jan 14 with 489 views | Juzzie |
| Welsh clubs having their cake and eating it on 16:44 - Jan 14 by hantssi |
Berwick Rangers play in the Scottish league!! |
they don't participate in the English League Cup or English FA Cup, they participate in the competitions of the body they are affiliated to. | | | |
| Welsh clubs having their cake and eating it on 18:40 - Jan 14 with 421 views | terryb |
| Welsh clubs having their cake and eating it on 16:00 - Jan 14 by Welsh_Ranger |
So from what I understand, the FAW has conducted a review of the Cymru league, its expanding the format to 16 teams and part of that restructure has been to look at ways of making the league more attractive and increase revenue blah blah blah.
They have been consulting with the four to see if they would be in favour for a while now and trying to work through the varying complications and making sure it is viable with the FA UEFA so as to not have a detrimental effect on the four.
The FAW are already pumping millions back into the Welsh game courtesy of our relative success over the last decade that has increased its popularity as a sport and the revenue from qualifications to major tournaments.
Naturally the next step is to make the league a more attractive proposition, increase footfall and grow the domestic game.
I don't personally know if Disney have an angle but trust that the FAW are looking at the best interests of the game in Wales |
As a matter of interest, please could you let me know if the standard in the Welsh League now is an improvement/different to the standard of it's predecessor? Other than Bangor leaving the English pyramid system & joining has anything changed?
Any knowledge I have of Welsh non-league football comes from an interest in Bridgend in the 60's due to a Welsh amateur international, Alwyn Morse, moving from Wales & joining Chesham. Then in the early 90's, Andy Yorke, Lee Costa, Ian Mitchell & Chris (Turbo) Townsend travelled from Wales every game to Chesham to win the Isthmian League. | | | |
| Welsh clubs having their cake and eating it on 19:02 - Jan 14 with 399 views | kropotkin41 |
My feeling is that the teams of Cymru (Our national football team is quite rightly called Cymru now) should and eventually will play exclusively in Cymru. The anomalies of the United Kingdom aren't just present in football, but they'll be sorted out when we all realise that it's perfectly normal for countries, all countries, to be independent. A Cymru league with Cardiff, Swansea, Newport and Wrexham wouldn't be the most amazing league in the world, obviously, the best players from this side of the border would go to play in England, but I think it could be competitive and fun... we might even persuade the mighty Merthyr to start playing their football exclusively in Cymru again.
There's an interesting parallel here with cricket. I was reading quite recently that the main reason Cymru doesn't have a national cricket set-up like Scotland and Ireland, with test ambitions, is because of Glamorgan CC... they'd obviously lose out if they couldn't play in England. I don't know how true this is, but it would explain why Cymru, which has quite a good cricket heritage doesn't have a relatively high profile national cricket team. [Post edited 14 Jan 19:03]
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| ‘morbid curiosity about where this is all going’ |
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| Welsh clubs having their cake and eating it on 22:06 - Jan 14 with 326 views | CiderwithRsie |
| Welsh clubs having their cake and eating it on 10:57 - Jan 14 by DannyPaddox |
We can relocate, dig down, build a new ground in Monmouthshire, and rebrand ourselves as Cwmbran Park Rangers but we’d still rest players and
bomb out of the Welsh Cup Round 1 to Blaenau Ffestiniog FC or whoever. |
Loftus Road is only 7.5 miles from the Welsh Harp Reservoir, how much more Welsh can you get? | | | |
| Welsh clubs having their cake and eating it on 22:15 - Jan 14 with 310 views | GaryHaddock |
| Welsh clubs having their cake and eating it on 19:02 - Jan 14 by kropotkin41 |
My feeling is that the teams of Cymru (Our national football team is quite rightly called Cymru now) should and eventually will play exclusively in Cymru. The anomalies of the United Kingdom aren't just present in football, but they'll be sorted out when we all realise that it's perfectly normal for countries, all countries, to be independent. A Cymru league with Cardiff, Swansea, Newport and Wrexham wouldn't be the most amazing league in the world, obviously, the best players from this side of the border would go to play in England, but I think it could be competitive and fun... we might even persuade the mighty Merthyr to start playing their football exclusively in Cymru again.
There's an interesting parallel here with cricket. I was reading quite recently that the main reason Cymru doesn't have a national cricket set-up like Scotland and Ireland, with test ambitions, is because of Glamorgan CC... they'd obviously lose out if they couldn't play in England. I don't know how true this is, but it would explain why Cymru, which has quite a good cricket heritage doesn't have a relatively high profile national cricket team. [Post edited 14 Jan 19:03]
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It’s a lovely league, but I went to Barry v TNS last year, arguably the two biggest sides.
400 people turned up.
After Wrexham / Newport there is a huge drop in size. More people attend a full house at Cardiff or Swansea match than the whole Cymru premiership in a season i’d imagine.
Would be a very lopsided 10-12 team league unless attendances and quality improved below the existing sides playing in the EFL. [Post edited 14 Jan 22:32]
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| Welsh clubs having their cake and eating it on 08:28 - Jan 15 with 174 views | Welsh_Ranger |
| Welsh clubs having their cake and eating it on 19:02 - Jan 14 by kropotkin41 |
My feeling is that the teams of Cymru (Our national football team is quite rightly called Cymru now) should and eventually will play exclusively in Cymru. The anomalies of the United Kingdom aren't just present in football, but they'll be sorted out when we all realise that it's perfectly normal for countries, all countries, to be independent. A Cymru league with Cardiff, Swansea, Newport and Wrexham wouldn't be the most amazing league in the world, obviously, the best players from this side of the border would go to play in England, but I think it could be competitive and fun... we might even persuade the mighty Merthyr to start playing their football exclusively in Cymru again.
There's an interesting parallel here with cricket. I was reading quite recently that the main reason Cymru doesn't have a national cricket set-up like Scotland and Ireland, with test ambitions, is because of Glamorgan CC... they'd obviously lose out if they couldn't play in England. I don't know how true this is, but it would explain why Cymru, which has quite a good cricket heritage doesn't have a relatively high profile national cricket team. [Post edited 14 Jan 19:03]
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Hey Mate,
So baby steps, I think the first is the league Cup, then the expansion to 16 teams for the JD Premier. I think it might happen in my lifetime but as i've said previously the 4 teams have played in the EFL for decades and cynically its going to be about revenues and finances for it to be attractive enough to join full time. | | | |
| Welsh clubs having their cake and eating it on 08:35 - Jan 15 with 156 views | Welsh_Ranger |
| Welsh clubs having their cake and eating it on 18:40 - Jan 14 by terryb |
As a matter of interest, please could you let me know if the standard in the Welsh League now is an improvement/different to the standard of it's predecessor? Other than Bangor leaving the English pyramid system & joining has anything changed?
Any knowledge I have of Welsh non-league football comes from an interest in Bridgend in the 60's due to a Welsh amateur international, Alwyn Morse, moving from Wales & joining Chesham. Then in the early 90's, Andy Yorke, Lee Costa, Ian Mitchell & Chris (Turbo) Townsend travelled from Wales every game to Chesham to win the Isthmian League. |
So, for me its on a level with L2/conference its maybe on a par with the league of Ireland but I've never watched that particular league. The strides that the FAW will have to go to to make it a respected league will take decades, in my opinion.
I personally, think their are plenty of examples of ways to grow it commercially and from a spectacle to hopefully make it a viable league. Maybe looking at leagues like the MLS for inspiration. We are a small nation but that shouldn't stop us being competitive. | | | |
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