| Andy Burnham 09:46 - Jul 20 with 18101 views | SaintNick |
Nice guy, everyone says that, but he seems to be called that because he tells people what they want to hear all the time.
Can he make big decisions ? But more to the point, here we are an hour before he is going to be Prime minister and we don't actually know what he is going to do when he takes charge, will he continue with the Labour party manifesto that got them elected or will he change course, in which case many say he should go to the polls.
If that happens I don't think any of the other parties are in any better condition.
We really are in a mess at the moment |  |
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| Andy Burnham on 19:10 - Jul 20 with 2272 views | Chesham_Saint |
| Andy Burnham on 18:14 - Jul 20 by kernow |
Yep I remember Chesh. Just like then, no referendum required. [Post edited 20 Jul 18:15]
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Seriously, it would be fascinating to have a truly objective assessment of the pros and cons. |  |
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| Andy Burnham on 21:22 - Jul 20 with 2146 views | Bridders2 |
| Andy Burnham on 11:28 - Jul 20 by Ifonly |
Burnham will make things worse. His big speech said that he wanted to return to the economic policies of the 1970s: more government, more taxes, more public spending, more nationalisation. The 1970s were an economic disaster for the UK. In the end we had to be bailed out by the IMF. The same basic rules of economics still apply. Kill the private sector and you kill the goose that lays the golden eggs.
Starmer and Reeves promised policies that would deliver economic growth and talked about its importance. But the policies they actually implemented were the opposite, because they had to work with the approval of the majority of Labour MPs, who are very left wing. Burnham will now pander to those MPs and make things worse. |
Nail on head. Let's keep our fingers crossed he doesn't give the unions more powers, or we might return to 70's style strikes every day and flying pickets.
He's definately going for pin-up PM and spending a lot of time looking in the mirror to get his smile right. |  |
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| Andy Burnham on 23:06 - Jul 20 with 2068 views | Gennaro_Contaldo |
Already decided, he's a cock. |  |
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| Andy Burnham on 07:02 - Jul 21 with 1952 views | City_boy |
Burnham's cabinet picks and sacking were interesting. I am pleased that Reeves and Lammy have gone.
John Healy as Chancellor will be interesting. 2 weeks ago he resigns in protest over Defence budget, now he finds himself in charge of the Government purse. Let's see how he finds the money for Defence now. The proposed 'Land Tax' will probably come in.
The 'City' Markets were not impressed,10 year Gilt prices rise (rates at which Government borrows). but they are probably still assessing Healey's appointment as everyone (especially bookies) were expecting Mahmoud.
Also notable, that nearly all Cabinet picks were from the North, and even in Burnham's call with Trump, he invited trump to visit Manchester.
I really don't see it getting better any time soon, although he is cutting tax on Electricity bills.
I would like to see a massive over haul of benefits. The system is broken and just being abused, especially Disability / PIP. Start by scrapping the Motorbility allowance, other than those who have a physical disability. [Post edited 21 Jul 7:04]
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| Andy Burnham on 08:21 - Jul 21 with 1906 views | SalisburySaint |
Liz Truss went well away from the Tory manifesto when she f*cked up the economy
Didn’t see any calls for an Election from anyone on here then |  | | |
| Andy Burnham on 08:32 - Jul 21 with 1887 views | Heisenberg |
| Andy Burnham on 18:43 - Jul 20 by Ifonly |
Truss was the same as Burnham: promising radical change with no mandate. She deserved to go. If Burnham means what he says about radical change, then he deserves to go for the same reason.
If he called a general election, told us what he was going to do and was elected after a robust debate, then fair enough and good luck to him. If he doesn't do that then he has no legitimacy. |
There is one big difference between Liz Truss and Andy Burnham. Whatever your views on him Burnham is a serious politician. Truss is clinically insane now reduced to hanging around with far right conspiracy theorists in America . How she ever became PM is astonishing. And before her we had a lying buffoon who when addressing big business decided to ramble on about Peppa Pig rather than talk about jobs and the economy. |  |
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| Andy Burnham on 09:55 - Jul 21 with 1807 views | Chesham_Saint |
| Andy Burnham on 08:21 - Jul 21 by SalisburySaint |
Liz Truss went well away from the Tory manifesto when she f*cked up the economy
Didn’t see any calls for an Election from anyone on here then |
As I said above, hypocrites all. Burnham is just another prime example. | |
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| Andy Burnham on 09:56 - Jul 21 with 1807 views | franniesTache |
| Andy Burnham on 08:21 - Jul 21 by SalisburySaint |
Liz Truss went well away from the Tory manifesto when she f*cked up the economy
Didn’t see any calls for an Election from anyone on here then |
Vast majority of the PM's in my lifetime have come in without an election, but that's because we don't vote for a PM in this country, we vote for an MP/Party who then form a government from those people elected.
The idea of an election every time a party changes leaders is an amercianisation of our politics, it's expensive and not needed, plus frankly it would hamstring the country if we keep changing leaders like we have done since 2016, as nothing would actually get done because the parties would be on a constant cycle of winning elections rather than implementing policy.
By the way does anyone know if Burnham is northern? He never seems to mention where he's from and it'd be really good to know... |  | | |
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| Andy Burnham on 10:00 - Jul 21 with 1802 views | Bridders2 |
| Andy Burnham on 08:32 - Jul 21 by Heisenberg |
There is one big difference between Liz Truss and Andy Burnham. Whatever your views on him Burnham is a serious politician. Truss is clinically insane now reduced to hanging around with far right conspiracy theorists in America . How she ever became PM is astonishing. And before her we had a lying buffoon who when addressing big business decided to ramble on about Peppa Pig rather than talk about jobs and the economy. |
Boris was an idiot, but Sunak started turning the economy after the massive inflation hike caused by the Ukraine war, getting it down to 2% under Labour we've been almost double that. He also achieved 2 quarters of .6% and .7% growth equivalent to 2.5% for the year, a brilliant figure given the circumstances.
Labour get in and the economy dives again. | |
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| Andy Burnham on 10:52 - Jul 21 with 1775 views | Ifonly |
| Andy Burnham on 09:56 - Jul 21 by franniesTache |
Vast majority of the PM's in my lifetime have come in without an election, but that's because we don't vote for a PM in this country, we vote for an MP/Party who then form a government from those people elected.
The idea of an election every time a party changes leaders is an amercianisation of our politics, it's expensive and not needed, plus frankly it would hamstring the country if we keep changing leaders like we have done since 2016, as nothing would actually get done because the parties would be on a constant cycle of winning elections rather than implementing policy.
By the way does anyone know if Burnham is northern? He never seems to mention where he's from and it'd be really good to know... |
We elect parties to government based on a promise of how they will govern. Most unelected PMs attempt to deliver on that promise. The government tries to do what we were told they'd do, so they retain legitimacy. Only Truss and Burnham have said they will do something radically different to the promise their parties were elected on. Only they are illegitimate. | | | |
| Andy Burnham on 11:17 - Jul 21 with 1749 views | dirk_doone |
As we've seen in both the USA and UK in recent years, the pie in the sky people vote for is the root cause of most of our countries' problems. As for referendums, the timing of them, rather than the merits of the case, will determine whether people vote yes or no. In the case of the Brexit one, the timing and the pie in the sky on offer both turned out for the worse.
It would be better for everybody, apart from a few politicians, if our country were just governed by professional administrators, who are not hamstrung by being part of some ideological faction, especially not the most dangerous ones of the extreme left or right. [Post edited 21 Jul 13:02]
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| Andy Burnham on 11:44 - Jul 21 with 1719 views | franniesTache |
| Andy Burnham on 11:17 - Jul 21 by dirk_doone |
As we've seen in both the USA and UK in recent years, the pie in the sky people vote for is the root cause of most of our countries' problems. As for referendums, the timing of them, rather than the merits of the case, will determine whether people vote yes or no. In the case of the Brexit one, the timing and the pie in the sky on offer both turned out for the worse.
It would be better for everybody, apart from a few politicians, if our country were just governed by professional administrators, who are not hamstrung by being part of some ideological faction, especially not the most dangerous ones of the extreme left or right. [Post edited 21 Jul 13:02]
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The problem with direct democracy/referendums is that it needs a highly educated population.
In countries like Switzerland it works because they are a small country, and their level of general education is extremely high, plus they're taught constitutional politics and political philosophy in school (as well as social policy and media literacy).
In the UK we are shamefully not taught any of those things, in fact i quite regularly see people not understand how our constitutional democracy works, how the separation of concerns - such as our legal systems etc. - work.
Brexit was a great example of that, the constitutional and economic fallout were actually pretty obvious from the start, almost nothing that's happened since, from the reduced economy and GDP, to small boats and ability protect against tariffs, are a surprise, but the case was won on emotion not facts as the vast majority of the country (on both sides) are simply not informed, nor interested, enough to learn the boring stuff | | | |
| Andy Burnham on 12:39 - Jul 21 with 1676 views | Jellybaby |
| Andy Burnham on 12:00 - Jul 20 by 1885_SFC |
Meet the new boss - same as the old boss. |
This is all that needs to be said about the latest scene change at the political theatre, quoting JRR Tolkein;
"The main mark of modern governments is that we do not know who governs, de facto any more than de jure. We see the politician and not his backer; still less the backer of the backer; or, what is most important of all, the banker of the backer." | |
| I wholly disapprove of what you say and will defend to the death your right to say it. |
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| Andy Burnham on 13:04 - Jul 21 with 1644 views | Ifonly |
| Andy Burnham on 12:39 - Jul 21 by Jellybaby |
This is all that needs to be said about the latest scene change at the political theatre, quoting JRR Tolkein;
"The main mark of modern governments is that we do not know who governs, de facto any more than de jure. We see the politician and not his backer; still less the backer of the backer; or, what is most important of all, the banker of the backer." |
Tolkein didn't believe there should be any central government, or police at all. He was an anarchist who believed that the best society would come from "the abolition of control". Unfortunately, that's about as realistic as Hobbits. | | | |
| Andy Burnham on 13:17 - Jul 21 with 1633 views | Butty101 |
| Andy Burnham on 08:21 - Jul 21 by SalisburySaint |
Liz Truss went well away from the Tory manifesto when she f*cked up the economy
Didn’t see any calls for an Election from anyone on here then |
Its a common misconception that Liz Truss crashed the economy!
Dont get me wrong she is as mad as a box of frogs, but she is not guilty. |  |
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| Andy Burnham on 13:23 - Jul 21 with 1623 views | Jellybaby |
| Andy Burnham on 13:04 - Jul 21 by Ifonly |
Tolkein didn't believe there should be any central government, or police at all. He was an anarchist who believed that the best society would come from "the abolition of control". Unfortunately, that's about as realistic as Hobbits. |
That should not detract from the point that he makes, that politicians are mere stooges doing the bidding of billionaire oligarchs. Until the populace understand this, we will continually waste our time getting excited about the "new boss" | |
| I wholly disapprove of what you say and will defend to the death your right to say it. |
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| Andy Burnham on 13:25 - Jul 21 with 1620 views | franniesTache |
| Andy Burnham on 13:17 - Jul 21 by Butty101 |
Its a common misconception that Liz Truss crashed the economy!
Dont get me wrong she is as mad as a box of frogs, but she is not guilty. |
Why do you think that? It's commonly held that her budget crashed the economy and most of the evidence would point to that.
Unless you mean it was her failure to cost it, or it was Kwarteng that did it?
She effectively crashed the bonds market by not going through the OBR and showing how she'd cost it, and once bonds and yields tanked the economy was done for.
Unless i'm missing something that seems very much on her leadership | | | |
| Andy Burnham on 14:15 - Jul 21 with 1563 views | SaintNick |
| Andy Burnham on 13:25 - Jul 21 by franniesTache |
Why do you think that? It's commonly held that her budget crashed the economy and most of the evidence would point to that.
Unless you mean it was her failure to cost it, or it was Kwarteng that did it?
She effectively crashed the bonds market by not going through the OBR and showing how she'd cost it, and once bonds and yields tanked the economy was done for.
Unless i'm missing something that seems very much on her leadership |
The economy did crash under Truss, but she was soon gone and it recovered quite quickly in a matter of weeks, so it didn't have the longer term effect that some would have you believe. | |
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| Andy Burnham on 14:19 - Jul 21 with 1557 views | franniesTache |
| Andy Burnham on 14:15 - Jul 21 by SaintNick |
The economy did crash under Truss, but she was soon gone and it recovered quite quickly in a matter of weeks, so it didn't have the longer term effect that some would have you believe. |
Yup not disagreeing there, but she - or her government - were absolutely responsible for the crash | | | |
| Andy Burnham on 14:22 - Jul 21 with 1554 views | Ifonly |
| Andy Burnham on 13:25 - Jul 21 by franniesTache |
Why do you think that? It's commonly held that her budget crashed the economy and most of the evidence would point to that.
Unless you mean it was her failure to cost it, or it was Kwarteng that did it?
She effectively crashed the bonds market by not going through the OBR and showing how she'd cost it, and once bonds and yields tanked the economy was done for.
Unless i'm missing something that seems very much on her leadership |
What Truss and Kamikaze Kwarteng did was illegitimate, should never have been attempted and did have a negative impact on the economy.
But they were unlucky. The main problem was that gilt yields, i.e. long term interest rates, rose (because gilts were sold) and a key reason that happened was due to an automatic selling mechanism in pension funds (who are the main owners of gilts) called LDI. This was relatively untested in the real world at that time. Selling caused automatic selling in a self reinforcing cycle with no off-switch. This caused rates to rise much higher than they otherwise would have done. Aa a direct result of that episode, the rules around LDI were changed by the regulators so that the same thing could never happen again.
Truss got what she deserved, but if there is an equivalent episode today, the spike in gilt yields/interest rates would be nothing like as severe. The main beneficiary of that may turn out to be Andy Burnham. | | | |
| Andy Burnham on 14:55 - Jul 21 with 1523 views | SaintNick |
| Andy Burnham on 14:19 - Jul 21 by franniesTache |
Yup not disagreeing there, but she - or her government - were absolutely responsible for the crash |
I dont think anyone is arguing with the fact that Truss was responsible, but drastic action was taken to put it right, it's effect was for a month, not the fatal blow to the economy that was claimed.
So far the markets have remained stable, but they don't like what they are hearing, they don't hear how some very good sounding ideas are going to be funded and they don't see that anything is actually changing when the likes of Angela Rayner, Ed Milliband, Wes Streeting etc are in the cabinet.
They just see it as a reshuffle of the pack and they didn't like what wasbeing said before.
Perhaps the old adage that the Labour part has all the good ideas, but doesn't have those with business acumen to implement them, whilst the Conservatives have the business acumen but no good ideas will once again come true | |
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| Andy Burnham on 23:04 - Jul 21 with 1382 views | SalisburySaint |
| Andy Burnham on 14:15 - Jul 21 by SaintNick |
The economy did crash under Truss, but she was soon gone and it recovered quite quickly in a matter of weeks, so it didn't have the longer term effect that some would have you believe. |
Didn’t help thousands of people who had to renew their mortgages during that period, had a long term effect for them | | | |
| Andy Burnham on 23:32 - Jul 21 with 1359 views | SaintNick |
| Andy Burnham on 23:04 - Jul 21 by SalisburySaint |
Didn’t help thousands of people who had to renew their mortgages during that period, had a long term effect for them |
It is a bit of a myth that Truss was responsible for the interest rate rise, the truth was that the economy needed rates to rise, Mortgage lenders could not afford to lend money at such a low rate and savers were getting nothing from their money in building societies etc.
The BOE Base rate had dropped due to covid to 0.1% in March 2020 after the previous 2 years at 0.75%.
It had steadily risen to 1.75% by August 2022, Truss's budget put it up to 2.25% and it has risen since.
But in September the mortgage rates were driven up by the lenders who needed to increase them to maintain profitability after covid.
Historically from the mid 1990's to around 2012 ish the BOE base rate was around 3.75 where it has been for the last 7 months or so.
So Mortgage rates were nothing to do with Truss, Mortgage Lenders are free to set their own fixed and variable rates, the only rates affected were tracker rates whic track the BOE base rates.
Rates have continued to be high and rose this week as lenders speculated about who would be the new chancellor, I was in a meeting with Mortgage Lender this morning who admitted that this week was not a good week to sign up for a mortgage, rates have been pulled last week and new higher rates put out, just because lenders can.
They expect them to drop again in the next week or so.
So it is easy to blame Truss, who it cannot be denied was a catastophic failure, but it was all quickly remedied and the markets recovered.
As for mortgage rates that was nothing to do with her, blame the mortgage lenders who have continued to keep fixed and variable rates high
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| Andy Burnham on 06:42 - Jul 22 with 1296 views | cocklebreath |
| Andy Burnham on 14:15 - Jul 21 by SaintNick |
The economy did crash under Truss, but she was soon gone and it recovered quite quickly in a matter of weeks, so it didn't have the longer term effect that some would have you believe. |
So the £350 a month that goes on my mortgage was nothing to do with her? Pull the other one Nick |  |
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| Andy Burnham on 08:48 - Jul 22 with 1224 views | SaintNick |
| Andy Burnham on 06:42 - Jul 22 by cocklebreath |
So the £350 a month that goes on my mortgage was nothing to do with her? Pull the other one Nick |
As I said Mortgage lenders can charge what they want to loan you the money, the BOE base rate is a guidance to them and did affect you if you had a tracker mortgage, they tend to follow the trend in that.
But when it comes down to it a mortgage lender sets it's own rate
How Mortgage Rates Are Determined
The Lender: Your specific bank or building society (such as Halifax or HSBC) decides the exact interest rate on your fixed or variable deal based on their running costs, business goals, profit margins, and risk assessments.
The Base Rate: The Bank of England sets the official Bank Rate, which acts as a foundational benchmark for the cost of borrowing in the wider economy.
As I also said the low mortgage rate was not sustainable, it had been rising for a couple of years before Truss's debacle.
Since Truss lenders have reacted to any issue by putting up their interest rates, the BOE base rate is currently 3.7% which is 1.5% less than it was in mid 2024 when Labour took over, yet mortgage rates have increased not dropped.
Lets blame politicians on both sides for things they do, but let's not listen to propaganda from either side telling us false information about their opposition and that "everything" bad that happens is down to the other side. | |
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