| Russell Brand is guilty 15:54 - Nov 5 with 27359 views | E17hoop |
Good, I hope he really suffers in clinky wink. |  |
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| Russell Brand is guilty on 17:58 - Nov 14 with 0 views | ed_83 |
| Russell Brand is guilty on 15:48 - Nov 14 by Beckenhamhoop |
Journalists should not get a free run at it though. They’ve abused their positions in the past with the phone hacking scandal, the fake Sheikh, entrapment of young stars for newspaper headlines and, as I’ve mentioned several times on this thread, the reporting of cases around Operation Midland and other high profile investigations that turned out to be complete nonsense. Peoples livelihoods and reputations forever damaged as a result. Some people died before being exonerated.
Your post also highlights an inherent risk for journalism; the need for a story to increase circulation. As you say, it’s a money making enterprise and you’ll pay for a good story which may affect the honesty or credibility of an informant or the honesty or integrity of a journalist for that matter.
As with all things in life, their is a balance to be struck. My point, throughout this thread, has been that matters of this type should sit with the Police, not journalists and the media. That way you wouldn’t be in any danger of being sued for libel. Win, win. [Post edited 14 Nov 15:56]
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Except the journalists, editors and publications responsible for hacking phones, running dodgy stings etc are rarely if ever the ones running public interest investigations. The phone hacking scandal only came to light because of Nick Davies at the Guardian, who basically forced the ICO and police to open their own enquiries. If it had been left solely to the authorities, we'd never have known about it.
It's the same with what's happening now. Very little of what Walliams has been accused of publicly is illegal, and Brand was convicted on an entirely separate set of allegations to those in the Times. Does anyone seriously believe that either of them would be in prison / under investigation by now, if victims had gone to the police rather than the press?
If we only ever judge accusations against a criminal burden of proof, then far less of this stuff would ever see the light of day, and far more horrific behaviour would go unpunished. Completely baffling to me that anyone would think that's a good thing, or believe that we owe the journalists working on these stories anything other than a massive debt of gratitude. |  | | |
| Russell Brand is guilty on 18:57 - Nov 14 with 0 views | Beckenhamhoop |
| Russell Brand is guilty on 17:58 - Nov 14 by ed_83 |
Except the journalists, editors and publications responsible for hacking phones, running dodgy stings etc are rarely if ever the ones running public interest investigations. The phone hacking scandal only came to light because of Nick Davies at the Guardian, who basically forced the ICO and police to open their own enquiries. If it had been left solely to the authorities, we'd never have known about it.
It's the same with what's happening now. Very little of what Walliams has been accused of publicly is illegal, and Brand was convicted on an entirely separate set of allegations to those in the Times. Does anyone seriously believe that either of them would be in prison / under investigation by now, if victims had gone to the police rather than the press?
If we only ever judge accusations against a criminal burden of proof, then far less of this stuff would ever see the light of day, and far more horrific behaviour would go unpunished. Completely baffling to me that anyone would think that's a good thing, or believe that we owe the journalists working on these stories anything other than a massive debt of gratitude. |
‘ Does anyone seriously believe that either of them would be in prison / under investigation by now, if victims had gone to the police rather than the press?’
That’s an incredible thing to say. Do you seriously believe that if someone made an allegation of sexual assault against a high profile celebrity that it wouldn’t be investigated properly and a report sent to the CPS?
I guess ultimately it boils down to what kind of society you want to live in. One where allegations of sexual misconduct are played out on the front page of a media organisation with that organisation acting as judge and jury. Or one where those allegations are examined, scrutinized and if appropriate sent before a proper Judge and jury with all the legal safeguards in place to ensure the right result is achieved.
I know which one I’d choose every time. | |
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| Russell Brand is guilty on 20:12 - Nov 14 with 0 views | BlackCrowe |
| Russell Brand is guilty on 17:58 - Nov 14 by ed_83 |
Except the journalists, editors and publications responsible for hacking phones, running dodgy stings etc are rarely if ever the ones running public interest investigations. The phone hacking scandal only came to light because of Nick Davies at the Guardian, who basically forced the ICO and police to open their own enquiries. If it had been left solely to the authorities, we'd never have known about it.
It's the same with what's happening now. Very little of what Walliams has been accused of publicly is illegal, and Brand was convicted on an entirely separate set of allegations to those in the Times. Does anyone seriously believe that either of them would be in prison / under investigation by now, if victims had gone to the police rather than the press?
If we only ever judge accusations against a criminal burden of proof, then far less of this stuff would ever see the light of day, and far more horrific behaviour would go unpunished. Completely baffling to me that anyone would think that's a good thing, or believe that we owe the journalists working on these stories anything other than a massive debt of gratitude. |
This. Brand would still be free I reckon were it not for media investigations, sad as it is to say. Same for most of those wrong uns. On the minus side the media plays a big part in bigging them to a point they feel they have a distorted view of their 'star' that makes them feel they are free to ply their scummy crimes. |  |
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| Russell Brand is guilty on 20:47 - Nov 14 with 0 views | ed_83 |
| Russell Brand is guilty on 18:57 - Nov 14 by Beckenhamhoop |
‘ Does anyone seriously believe that either of them would be in prison / under investigation by now, if victims had gone to the police rather than the press?’
That’s an incredible thing to say. Do you seriously believe that if someone made an allegation of sexual assault against a high profile celebrity that it wouldn’t be investigated properly and a report sent to the CPS?
I guess ultimately it boils down to what kind of society you want to live in. One where allegations of sexual misconduct are played out on the front page of a media organisation with that organisation acting as judge and jury. Or one where those allegations are examined, scrutinized and if appropriate sent before a proper Judge and jury with all the legal safeguards in place to ensure the right result is achieved.
I know which one I’d choose every time. |
"Do you seriously believe that if someone made an allegation of sexual assault against a high profile celebrity that it wouldn’t be investigated properly and a report sent to the CPS?"
Only one of the public accusations against Walliams concerns allegedly illegal behaviour: there's nothing the police could or would have done about any of the others. He's now being investigated, but over a different set of allegation to those which were the subject of the Guardian and ITN's reporting. It's the same with Brand: he was convicted on an entirely separate set of allegations from those made in the Times article in 2023.
I'm not trying to disparage the work of the police, but I genuinely believe that if the women who spoke to the press had gone to the authorities instead, they would have hit a dead end, the story would have been buried, other women wouldn't have had the catalyst they needed to come forward, and the allegations for which Brand has been convicted and Walliams is currently being investigated wouldn't ever have come to light.
Also, this is a broader point but I think if you've followed the various inquiries into historic sexual abuse that have been published over the last few years, it's pretty clear that institutions of all kinds, including the police, are perfect capable of failing to properly investigate these kinds of allegations. | | | |
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