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I'll be at 7 of the next 9 games which is the best I can possibly manage. This team is so worth our support. Just look at Seny's face as he makes that penalty save.
What a let down from the excitement of last week its a bit crushing to be honest . So the Ref basically made 2 shocking mistakes against us and we practically gave them their goal yet only lost by 1 that is something at least . Pity the International break is not this weekend we could all do with a reset . Great work again Clive
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A learning experience - Report on 06:27 - Sep 5 with 4465 views
Thanks as ever Clive. One positive out of this performance (and I know it should be tempered by the fact that he’s not ‘one of ours’) was the cameo of Iroegbunam. In that short few minutes, he demonstrated a Patrick Vierra-type mix of abilities and looked a bit special.
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A learning experience - Report on 08:44 - Sep 5 with 4282 views
Much as the timewasting is a continuous bugbear that no one seems prepared to deal with, the more damaging issue is the 'ooh it's a bit early yet' decision making. If a foul is a committed in the penalty area in the first minute or the eighty-ninth minute, it should still be a penalty!
I know nothing of tacticts especially in this day and age but it just felt like they had 15 players on the pitch(should have been 10!), everywhere there was a white wall bewteen us and their goal.
They snuffed out our entire game play although you could see our guys looked like they were running on fumes from the start.
That said Swans have played the same game time as us although I have no idea if their starting 11 was much changed or not?
Interesting debate to be had about the standard of football in the Championship.
For me, it's (mainly) a very good product. The skills on display and the overall "watch" are light years better than the channel ball hoofing of 10-15 years ago.
Not hard to see why- the standard of players in the prem has got better and better and players that once would've made the cut at that level are now plying their trade in the Championship.
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A learning experience - Report on 13:21 - Sep 5 with 3811 views
very true clive re squad rotation and energy levels
Think Beale made his mistake not on Saturday, but on Tuesday against hull. Up 3-0 at halftime and then still at the 60th minute mark, with the game comfortably in hand, there were loads of opportunities to earlier rest some of the players who are bearing a lot of the load....
chair, who played like a man possessed the entire Hull match (and never entering the weird second gear that tyler roberts when brought on as a sub), was only taken off after the 81st. Dykes and Johansen came off in the 71st...notwithstanding the transfer deadline, beale wouldve had decent visibility on who would or wouldnt be available against swansea and shouldve been looking ahead more
the downside of having a rookie manager in his first season in the division... but hopefully he will eventually get this right
[Post edited 5 Sep 2022 13:22]
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A learning experience - Report on 14:27 - Sep 5 with 3672 views
We lost the game through (mostly) a combination of a sub-par performance and shocking refereeing, that's clear, but the identification with Champ clubs' constant whining about the schedule over-working its clubs (Warburton was one of the worst managers for this) is now getting beyond tedious and just won't wash.
The Div Two/Champ set-up hasn't significantly changed for decades - we play four more games than in the past, with an entirely similar week-to-week fixture lists and geographic distribution of games. Players are also, we're told, a lot fitter, athletic and better nourished than in the past. Pitches are of a higher quality. Overall, footballers are far, far better looked after. Unfortunately, the paying public gets their expectations downwardly managed, and far too many fans buy into it. It makes me laugh and weep when I think of how the 1975/76 Rs side played all that lovely football with, what, 15 or 16 players, or Aston Villa won the old Div 1 using 14.
We had a trip tof less than 200 miles five days after a game with a full, fit team, a month into the season, and people are trying to say that was a significant factor in our defeat? Sweet Jesus!
A learning experience - Report on 14:27 - Sep 5 by stainrods_elbow
We lost the game through (mostly) a combination of a sub-par performance and shocking refereeing, that's clear, but the identification with Champ clubs' constant whining about the schedule over-working its clubs (Warburton was one of the worst managers for this) is now getting beyond tedious and just won't wash.
The Div Two/Champ set-up hasn't significantly changed for decades - we play four more games than in the past, with an entirely similar week-to-week fixture lists and geographic distribution of games. Players are also, we're told, a lot fitter, athletic and better nourished than in the past. Pitches are of a higher quality. Overall, footballers are far, far better looked after. Unfortunately, the paying public gets their expectations downwardly managed, and far too many fans buy into it. It makes me laugh and weep when I think of how the 1975/76 Rs side played all that lovely football with, what, 15 or 16 players, or Aston Villa won the old Div 1 using 14.
We had a trip tof less than 200 miles five days after a game with a full, fit team, a month into the season, and people are trying to say that was a significant factor in our defeat? Sweet Jesus!
[Post edited 5 Sep 2022 14:28]
As some us us have repeatedly said this is not 1975-76. The game has changed into a far quicker and more athletic sport. It is well known that elite athletes in other sports peak for major championships and footballers at this level are similar.
The human body can only cope with a level of physical and mental stress and everyone's is different. It is extremely difficult to raise your performance to it's highest level for game after game. It was noticeable how much energy the players had after a free midweek, when they went to Watford and initially against Hull before the efforts started to catch up with a few.
Rest is as important as fitness when trying to get athletes to perform. The championship has changed a little in the last few seasons it has been more compact with more midweeks due to covid and now a mid season world cup.
I'd be surprised if anyone who has had any direct involvement with sport at a reasonable level in the last ten years, has not been encouraged to rest as much as possible between matches or training sessions.
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A learning experience - Report on 16:04 - Sep 5 with 3508 views
A learning experience - Report on 15:39 - Sep 5 by francisbowles
As some us us have repeatedly said this is not 1975-76. The game has changed into a far quicker and more athletic sport. It is well known that elite athletes in other sports peak for major championships and footballers at this level are similar.
The human body can only cope with a level of physical and mental stress and everyone's is different. It is extremely difficult to raise your performance to it's highest level for game after game. It was noticeable how much energy the players had after a free midweek, when they went to Watford and initially against Hull before the efforts started to catch up with a few.
Rest is as important as fitness when trying to get athletes to perform. The championship has changed a little in the last few seasons it has been more compact with more midweeks due to covid and now a mid season world cup.
I'd be surprised if anyone who has had any direct involvement with sport at a reasonable level in the last ten years, has not been encouraged to rest as much as possible between matches or training sessions.
agreed
its pointless to look back to what players did 40 years ago... fullbacks in the 70s werent running up and down the pitch, nor were strikers pressing from the front.... the ball was also in play much less b/c defenders etc werent as skilled on the ball and youd see more clearances
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A learning experience - Report on 16:22 - Sep 5 with 3489 views
A learning experience - Report on 14:27 - Sep 5 by stainrods_elbow
We lost the game through (mostly) a combination of a sub-par performance and shocking refereeing, that's clear, but the identification with Champ clubs' constant whining about the schedule over-working its clubs (Warburton was one of the worst managers for this) is now getting beyond tedious and just won't wash.
The Div Two/Champ set-up hasn't significantly changed for decades - we play four more games than in the past, with an entirely similar week-to-week fixture lists and geographic distribution of games. Players are also, we're told, a lot fitter, athletic and better nourished than in the past. Pitches are of a higher quality. Overall, footballers are far, far better looked after. Unfortunately, the paying public gets their expectations downwardly managed, and far too many fans buy into it. It makes me laugh and weep when I think of how the 1975/76 Rs side played all that lovely football with, what, 15 or 16 players, or Aston Villa won the old Div 1 using 14.
We had a trip tof less than 200 miles five days after a game with a full, fit team, a month into the season, and people are trying to say that was a significant factor in our defeat? Sweet Jesus!
[Post edited 5 Sep 2022 14:28]
See I was so worried by your lack of posts after a couple of good performances and great wins that I had bring out a talking point that I knew you wouldn't able to resist.
Win three in a row and I've got a Lee Hoos tribute piece on file to chum the water with...
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A learning experience - Report on 17:05 - Sep 5 with 3370 views
A learning experience - Report on 16:04 - Sep 5 by qprd
agreed
its pointless to look back to what players did 40 years ago... fullbacks in the 70s werent running up and down the pitch, nor were strikers pressing from the front.... the ball was also in play much less b/c defenders etc werent as skilled on the ball and youd see more clearances
Thank you for that comprehensive and coherent counter-thesis!
It isn't a case of wallowing in 40 years of nostalgia - it's a matter of pointing out, to repeat, a number of fans' uncritical buy-in to the idea that modern players can't manage 3 games in a week and said fans should therefore accept less. The game is a bit faster than it was, I'll concede, but I don't accept it's necessarily incomparably more physically arduous than yesteryear, when you look at the ploughed fields the game was played on, the industrial challenges that went unpunished, and the fact that first teams, blow me down with a blue and white feather, were quaintly used in the league and all competitions, which also often led to large numbers of replays on top in ways that have now been curtailed. As I've also pointed out, highlighting things like the number of games in a season and the necessity of travelling up and down the UK is just strange, as none of this has significantly changed as far as I can remember in nearly a half century of watching the professional game. Only recently, contra another bizarre statement on this thread, it was vehemently observed how much less the ball is in play in 2020s Champ ball, so let's not waste our time with people who want to have their cake and eat it, not to mention how all the shithousery we see in the modern product actually slows the game down far more than in the past.
If anyone wants to counter-argue the topic, fine, that's what this board is for - but do so with me point by point or you'll probably just look young and stupid. Watch a game form the 197os, 80s or even 90s, and you'll see harder tackles, a lot more football being played, far less game-slowing shithousery and timewasting, and overall, in many ways, a much more engaging product.
Controversial here but actually I often think watching footage of football from the 70s that the quality of the game as a whole looks garbage compared to what you see today.
There, I said it. Shoot me
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A learning experience - Report on 17:11 - Sep 5 with 3344 views
A learning experience - Report on 17:09 - Sep 5 by slmrstid
Controversial here but actually I often think watching footage of football from the 70s that the quality of the game as a whole looks garbage compared to what you see today.
There, I said it. Shoot me
You obviously weren't wacthing QPR!
Actually, when I watch games from the 80s and 90s etc., I tend to find them a lot more entertaining and skilful. Those great Liverpool sides of that wera would murder Klopp's high intensity version.
A learning experience - Report on 01:23 - Sep 5 by CLAREMAN1995
What a let down from the excitement of last week its a bit crushing to be honest . So the Ref basically made 2 shocking mistakes against us and we practically gave them their goal yet only lost by 1 that is something at least . Pity the International break is not this weekend we could all do with a reset . Great work again Clive
I think Beale is hoping to post a few more points on the board before the international break.
He, more than anyone, needs to get that defeat at Swansea out of his system.
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A learning experience - Report on 17:45 - Sep 5 with 3312 views
Three games against Russell Martin's Swansea have ended 0-0, 1-0, 0-1 so he has found a way to nullify us and stop any enterprising play. Not many games played yet this season but already we have three one nil defeats to our name.
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A learning experience - Report on 19:24 - Sep 5 with 3149 views
Here are some more comprehensive statistics that show it's a myth how much the (international) game at least has increased in speed, and I'm fairly sure one could produce other competing stats for the domestic leagues. The relative speed of the modern game, which as I'm showing is eminently contestable, is about the only thing the modernists have in their locker, whereas I have also cited several other factors they seem to have no answers to.
In sum, if we're going to Swansea after a five day break and complaining about tiredness eight games into the season, it's a sorry state of affairs. It's more to do with expectation down-management than anything else.
A learning experience - Report on 18:27 - Sep 5 by ManinBlack
Three games against Russell Martin's Swansea have ended 0-0, 1-0, 0-1 so he has found a way to nullify us and stop any enterprising play. Not many games played yet this season but already we have three one nil defeats to our name.
Also had three wins where we have scored three goals for perspective.
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A learning experience - Report on 00:43 - Sep 6 with 2882 views
Here are some more comprehensive statistics that show it's a myth how much the (international) game at least has increased in speed, and I'm fairly sure one could produce other competing stats for the domestic leagues. The relative speed of the modern game, which as I'm showing is eminently contestable, is about the only thing the modernists have in their locker, whereas I have also cited several other factors they seem to have no answers to.
In sum, if we're going to Swansea after a five day break and complaining about tiredness eight games into the season, it's a sorry state of affairs. It's more to do with expectation down-management than anything else.
[Post edited 5 Sep 2022 19:30]
I shudder to think what you googled to find this random post from a 2011 message board
But that aside, did you actually read (or understand) what the guy wrote?
I didn’t read the primary material (which isn’t linked to but let’s take the random words of a 2011 poster as fact) …but if this random posters explanation is correct, this was a study of a handful of random World Cup matches which is hardly comprehensive. The metric they present is distance the BALL cumulatively traveled divided by seconds the ball is in play. In other words, this has very little to do with how much the players ran which is what we’ve been talking about. Longballs from the Center back to the forward would presumably inflate this stat. If the ball is repeatedly kicked out of play, this would not be reflected in the stat since the metric measures seconds the ball is live
Running stats have been going up and up since they’ve been recorded, but to refute that, you’re pointing to stats of the distance the ball has traveled in a match?
It’s ok to use stats- but a bit of elementary understanding of stats and basic reading comprehension would be helpful.
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A learning experience - Report on 00:52 - Sep 6 with 2875 views
A learning experience - Report on 00:43 - Sep 6 by qprd
I shudder to think what you googled to find this random post from a 2011 message board
But that aside, did you actually read (or understand) what the guy wrote?
I didn’t read the primary material (which isn’t linked to but let’s take the random words of a 2011 poster as fact) …but if this random posters explanation is correct, this was a study of a handful of random World Cup matches which is hardly comprehensive. The metric they present is distance the BALL cumulatively traveled divided by seconds the ball is in play. In other words, this has very little to do with how much the players ran which is what we’ve been talking about. Longballs from the Center back to the forward would presumably inflate this stat. If the ball is repeatedly kicked out of play, this would not be reflected in the stat since the metric measures seconds the ball is live
Running stats have been going up and up since they’ve been recorded, but to refute that, you’re pointing to stats of the distance the ball has traveled in a match?
It’s ok to use stats- but a bit of elementary understanding of stats and basic reading comprehension would be helpful.
Come on now...
"If anyone wants to counter-argue the topic, fine, that's what this board is for - but do so with me point by point or you'll probably just look young and stupid."
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(No subject) (n/t) on 01:02 - Sep 6 with 2860 views
A learning experience - Report on 00:43 - Sep 6 by qprd
I shudder to think what you googled to find this random post from a 2011 message board
But that aside, did you actually read (or understand) what the guy wrote?
I didn’t read the primary material (which isn’t linked to but let’s take the random words of a 2011 poster as fact) …but if this random posters explanation is correct, this was a study of a handful of random World Cup matches which is hardly comprehensive. The metric they present is distance the BALL cumulatively traveled divided by seconds the ball is in play. In other words, this has very little to do with how much the players ran which is what we’ve been talking about. Longballs from the Center back to the forward would presumably inflate this stat. If the ball is repeatedly kicked out of play, this would not be reflected in the stat since the metric measures seconds the ball is live
Running stats have been going up and up since they’ve been recorded, but to refute that, you’re pointing to stats of the distance the ball has traveled in a match?
It’s ok to use stats- but a bit of elementary understanding of stats and basic reading comprehension would be helpful.
A learning experience - Report on 00:43 - Sep 6 by qprd
I shudder to think what you googled to find this random post from a 2011 message board
But that aside, did you actually read (or understand) what the guy wrote?
I didn’t read the primary material (which isn’t linked to but let’s take the random words of a 2011 poster as fact) …but if this random posters explanation is correct, this was a study of a handful of random World Cup matches which is hardly comprehensive. The metric they present is distance the BALL cumulatively traveled divided by seconds the ball is in play. In other words, this has very little to do with how much the players ran which is what we’ve been talking about. Longballs from the Center back to the forward would presumably inflate this stat. If the ball is repeatedly kicked out of play, this would not be reflected in the stat since the metric measures seconds the ball is live
Running stats have been going up and up since they’ve been recorded, but to refute that, you’re pointing to stats of the distance the ball has traveled in a match?
It’s ok to use stats- but a bit of elementary understanding of stats and basic reading comprehension would be helpful.
Thanks for the microlecture on the importance of critical thinking, but at least I took the trouble to produce some statistical analysis, which is more than I've seen from other posters here, my intention with which was to talk about the pace of the game as well. I find this data interesting rather than random. My other (mostly unanswered) points about how the game has got easier for modern players stand regardless.
I don't buy into the contemporary tendency to treat modern footballers as snowflakes who can't possibly be expected to string three properly energised performances together in a week, have given several fairly straightforward reasons for that view, and don't see too much reason to revise that view, that's all. It hardly makes me a controversialist, just not a slavish conformist. If others want to identify with the downward direction of 'expectation management' in the modern game, that's up to them, but I won't be joining them. The players should have done better at Swansea, end of story, so bite me!
“I don't buy into the contemporary tendency to treat modern footballers as snowflakes who can't possibly be expected to string three properly energised performances together in a week“
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