| Hillsborough 13:10 - Sep 12 with 6987 views | exiled_dictator |
Just been listening to the Prime Ministers speech in Parliament regarding the findings of the latest report.
Absolute tragedy & travesty for the 96 families.
Checking for alcohol levels in children?
Blatantly lying
Ignoring evidence
Kelvin MacKenzie, I hope you can still sleep at night.
A long time coming, but still very difficult to comprehend. [Post edited 1 Jan 1970 1:00]
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| Hillsborough on 13:17 - Sep 12 with 2120 views | 1MoreBrightonR |
its amazing that despite investigations and the original taylor report, how many people including other football fans still believe the stories the police deliberately fed to the Sun. Amazing that football fans believe the police and Sun ahead of other football fans. |  | | |
| Hillsborough on 13:25 - Sep 12 with 2065 views | robith |
From 164 statements, 116 were "significantly" altered.
Defies belief |  | | |
| Hillsborough on 13:26 - Sep 12 with 2061 views | Bedford_R |
Hope those responsible in the police for the cover up get their 'justice'... [Post edited 1 Jan 1970 1:00]
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| Hillsborough on 13:34 - Sep 12 with 2024 views | doogi55 |
taken all this time for what we all knew the police and media and goverment lied.
but we are all just thugs so they could say and do what they like we are football hooligans.thatcher was told the police where lying | | | |
| Hillsborough on 13:34 - Sep 12 with 2023 views | exiled_dictator |
Just a quick question, has anyone been prosecuted for manslaughter charges?
Surely knowing now what we know, there must be enough evidence & information for a serious court case to be had?
Sorry, just read that
'Senior officers responsible for policing the game, David Duckenfield and Bernard Murray, faced disciplinary proceedings and both left the force.
Mr Murray was cleared of two counts of manslaughter and the jury could not reach a verdict on Mr Duckenfield at a private prosecution at Leeds Crown Court in July 2000.'
Well, in light of the new evidence, there must be a new case and these tow must be put on trial. [Post edited 1 Jan 1970 1:00]
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| Hillsborough on 14:17 - Sep 12 with 1918 views | willis1980 |
eeerrrrrrrm a copper walked free a few months ago after killing a man who had his back turned and his hands in his pockets. I cant see 'justice' ever being dished out sadly, its one set of rules for us and a different for them. [Post edited 1 Jan 1970 1:00]
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| Hillsborough on 14:18 - Sep 12 with 1910 views | QPR1506 |
'The panel finds that a total of 41 people out of 96 "had the potential to be saved". |  |
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| Hillsborough on 14:31 - Sep 12 with 1879 views | jamois |
Whilst it is totally appropriate for Cameron to issue an apology, have the police done the same since the files were released today? |  |
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| Hillsborough on 14:35 - Sep 12 with 1864 views | daveB |
although the police and media were a disgrace that wasn't the only time several thousand Liverpool fans turned up at a game without tickets and stormed the gate, they did it in the 2007 champions league final as well and plenty of times before Hillsbrough. Blame on all sides imo but delighted the police have finally been exposed.
I was only as kid in the 80's and went to a few away games a season but they used to treat us like utter dirt, i remeber a trip to Liverpool in 87 when I was 11 and I don't think I've ever been treated as badly at a game since, was incredible like hurding cattle. |  | | |
| Hillsborough on 14:36 - Sep 12 with 1862 views | Bluce_Ree |
| Hillsborough on 14:31 - Sep 12 by jamois |
Whilst it is totally appropriate for Cameron to issue an apology, have the police done the same since the files were released today? |
one step at a time, yo. |  |
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| Hillsborough on 14:45 - Sep 12 with 1836 views | TheChef |
| Hillsborough on 13:34 - Sep 12 by exiled_dictator |
Just a quick question, has anyone been prosecuted for manslaughter charges?
Surely knowing now what we know, there must be enough evidence & information for a serious court case to be had?
Sorry, just read that
'Senior officers responsible for policing the game, David Duckenfield and Bernard Murray, faced disciplinary proceedings and both left the force.
Mr Murray was cleared of two counts of manslaughter and the jury could not reach a verdict on Mr Duckenfield at a private prosecution at Leeds Crown Court in July 2000.'
Well, in light of the new evidence, there must be a new case and these tow must be put on trial. [Post edited 1 Jan 1970 1:00]
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Duckenfield was new in the job in 1989. For me the most ridiculous thing is they had the same match at Hillsborough the previous year and Liverpool were given the Kop end, which is much bigger and would accommodate them a lot better. The match passed off without any problems; it would have been easy to follow the same procedures in 1989, but for whatever reason different decisions were made, Forest were given the Kop end, and the rest sadly is history. |  |
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| Hillsborough on 14:54 - Sep 12 with 1811 views | stowmarketrange |
I have no doubt that the majority of the 96 people who died on that tragic day were innocent victims.I also don't have a lot of sympathy for the police after the way they treated fans in the past,and still treat us like vermin.But the major villans of the day were the people who arrived late at the game without tickets and drunk.
We all did it back then and a lot still do.We all used to be in the pubs till 10 to 3 and still get in to see the game.
How many people on here can say they have never turned up drunk and late for a game.I know I have.There was even a thread on here about "the most drunk you've been at a football match."
Luckily most our games weren't big cup semi-finals, and we got lucky,and didn't have the problems that occurred that day.
I missed the semi-final in 82 as I was on holiday in America at the time,but I did go to our Anfield semi in 86,and stayed in the pub until 7.30,and still managed to see the kick off.When the second equaliser went in,most of us were engaged in a crowd surge that went from top to bottom.If somebody had fallen down then,there would have been crushed.
In the cup final in 86 there were both Liverpool and Everton fans climbing the walls of Wembley to get in because they didn't have tickets.What would have happened if hundreds had managed to get in that way?
A lot of older football fans were lucky that more instances didnt occur in the bad days of the 70s and 80s.As the saying goes "there but for the grace of god."
I'm not just blaming the Liverpool supporters,but they have to take some of the responsibility too. [Post edited 1 Jan 1970 1:00]
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| Hillsborough on 15:02 - Sep 12 with 1777 views | smegma |
| Hillsborough on 14:54 - Sep 12 by stowmarketrange |
I have no doubt that the majority of the 96 people who died on that tragic day were innocent victims.I also don't have a lot of sympathy for the police after the way they treated fans in the past,and still treat us like vermin.But the major villans of the day were the people who arrived late at the game without tickets and drunk.
We all did it back then and a lot still do.We all used to be in the pubs till 10 to 3 and still get in to see the game.
How many people on here can say they have never turned up drunk and late for a game.I know I have.There was even a thread on here about "the most drunk you've been at a football match."
Luckily most our games weren't big cup semi-finals, and we got lucky,and didn't have the problems that occurred that day.
I missed the semi-final in 82 as I was on holiday in America at the time,but I did go to our Anfield semi in 86,and stayed in the pub until 7.30,and still managed to see the kick off.When the second equaliser went in,most of us were engaged in a crowd surge that went from top to bottom.If somebody had fallen down then,there would have been crushed.
In the cup final in 86 there were both Liverpool and Everton fans climbing the walls of Wembley to get in because they didn't have tickets.What would have happened if hundreds had managed to get in that way?
A lot of older football fans were lucky that more instances didnt occur in the bad days of the 70s and 80s.As the saying goes "there but for the grace of god."
I'm not just blaming the Liverpool supporters,but they have to take some of the responsibility too. [Post edited 1 Jan 1970 1:00]
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Have you actually read Camerons statement ?? Or have just based your opinion by reading Kelvin Mackenzie in the Sun. | | | |
| Hillsborough on 15:10 - Sep 12 with 1755 views | stowmarketrange |
| Hillsborough on 15:02 - Sep 12 by smegma |
Have you actually read Camerons statement ?? Or have just based your opinion by reading Kelvin Mackenzie in the Sun. |
No I ,like many on here used to go to football in the dark days and see the behaviour of SOME fans including our own.I don't read the Sun and never have done,but a lot of Liverpool fans didn't arrive at the ground until the last minutes before the game.
I suspect that a few might have been drinking. | | | |
| Hillsborough on 15:21 - Sep 12 with 1716 views | daveB |
i'll be turning up late and pissed on Saturday I imagine but difference is I won't be pushing people out the the way and charging into the ground, I'll just queue like a normal person | | | |
| Hillsborough on 15:26 - Sep 12 with 1692 views | willis1980 |
surely its the responsibility of those that serve and protect to ensure that even if hoards of drunk late comers turn up that the situation is dealt with accordingly, not completely fouled up and covered up.
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| Hillsborough on 15:26 - Sep 12 with 1692 views | runningman75 |
I first started going to matches as a child in the 1980s. Loftus Road was a much better experience compared to most grounds. The government at the time did not like football fans and it was much easier to blame the fans at the time of Hillsborough rather the looking at the root causes of the problem. I know a few Scousers who would never pick up the Sun due to their inaccurate coverage and it is important for people to know the facts before blaming this on drunk Scousers. | | | |
| Hillsborough on 15:31 - Sep 12 with 1681 views | Aunt_Nelly |
| Hillsborough on 15:21 - Sep 12 by daveB |
i'll be turning up late and pissed on Saturday I imagine but difference is I won't be pushing people out the the way and charging into the ground, I'll just queue like a normal person |
No the difference is you'll be entering a ground that has a valid safety certificate, is policed properly and provision in case of medical emergency.
[Post edited 1 Jan 1970 1:00]
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| Hillsborough on 15:39 - Sep 12 with 1650 views | smegma |
| Hillsborough on 15:10 - Sep 12 by stowmarketrange |
No I ,like many on here used to go to football in the dark days and see the behaviour of SOME fans including our own.I don't read the Sun and never have done,but a lot of Liverpool fans didn't arrive at the ground until the last minutes before the game.
I suspect that a few might have been drinking. |
And you are basing this 'evidence' on what ? Your opinion flies in the face of ALL the facts that have come out in the last 23 years. My brother was there that day. He arrived at the Lepping Lane turnstiles at 2.15pm. Thank f*ck he couldn't get in due to the crushes outside the ground. He gave up at about 2.45 and walked to the Kop End where the van was parked. Thankfully all my 12 mates came home safely that night although it was the longest day of my life as without mobile phones back then it was nigh on impossible to find out any news as to their safety.
You can take your blinkers off now. | | | |
| Hillsborough on 15:47 - Sep 12 with 1622 views | Bedford_R |
| Hillsborough on 15:10 - Sep 12 by stowmarketrange |
No I ,like many on here used to go to football in the dark days and see the behaviour of SOME fans including our own.I don't read the Sun and never have done,but a lot of Liverpool fans didn't arrive at the ground until the last minutes before the game.
I suspect that a few might have been drinking. |
Utter bollox., mate. Read the report. Listen to the Prime Minister. Get your head out of your arse... | |
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| Hillsborough on 15:48 - Sep 12 with 1615 views | N12Hoop |
| Hillsborough on 15:39 - Sep 12 by smegma |
And you are basing this 'evidence' on what ? Your opinion flies in the face of ALL the facts that have come out in the last 23 years. My brother was there that day. He arrived at the Lepping Lane turnstiles at 2.15pm. Thank f*ck he couldn't get in due to the crushes outside the ground. He gave up at about 2.45 and walked to the Kop End where the van was parked. Thankfully all my 12 mates came home safely that night although it was the longest day of my life as without mobile phones back then it was nigh on impossible to find out any news as to their safety.
You can take your blinkers off now. |
So what you're saying is that although there were already delays getting in to the ground, this wasn;t exacerbated by hundreds, maybe several thousand fans turning up at the last minute because they queued in a civilised and responsible manner waiting to get in and that none of them had had a drink and that the reason they all arrived close to kick-off was because of traffic and/or they thought they'd enjoy a coke outside the ground beforehand. No one is saying that the police are not culpable, but to say that every fan was behaving like a gentleman beforehand is ridiculous. Every one of us over a certain age has been stuck on terraces when there has been a last minute surge arising from people arriving late and pushing through. The police and organisers are predominantly to blame but crushing arises from fans pushing forward and this was always a problem on terraces, especially small ones, and was an accident waiting to happen, if not at Hillsborough then somewhere else; in fact I'm sure it's happened abroad a few times [Post edited 1 Jan 1970 1:00]
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| Hillsborough on 15:53 - Sep 12 with 1605 views | wombat |
| Hillsborough on 15:47 - Sep 12 by Bedford_R |
Utter bollox., mate. Read the report. Listen to the Prime Minister. Get your head out of your arse... |
I hope that the police officers responsible and anyone else found guilty of changing there statements in there favour are charged , and hopefully found guilty on what ever charges they face. stood on lepping lane many times befor that fatefull day and again during promotion year , it was always the organisers of the games fault and why did the game take place with NO saftey cert in place beggars belief even to this day |  |
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| Hillsborough on 15:56 - Sep 12 with 1592 views | stowmarketrange |
| Hillsborough on 15:39 - Sep 12 by smegma |
And you are basing this 'evidence' on what ? Your opinion flies in the face of ALL the facts that have come out in the last 23 years. My brother was there that day. He arrived at the Lepping Lane turnstiles at 2.15pm. Thank f*ck he couldn't get in due to the crushes outside the ground. He gave up at about 2.45 and walked to the Kop End where the van was parked. Thankfully all my 12 mates came home safely that night although it was the longest day of my life as without mobile phones back then it was nigh on impossible to find out any news as to their safety.
You can take your blinkers off now. |
I wasn't there on the day,so I can't comment on your brother's experience,and I'm glad he didn't get involved,but there is blame on all sides.
What would have lead to the police stupidly opening the gate to let more people in?Would it have been more acceptable if people were crushed outside?
I have no doubt that the police were unprepared for the chaos on that day,but I can't believe the some Liverpool fans behaviour on the day wasn't unacceptable,because without the knowledge of what was going on,a lot of us would have behaved the same way.That doesn't make it right,but if somebody is killed by the actions of others,you can't always blame everybody else.Sometimes the buck has to stop with the people who caused the deaths of the innocent 96 victims. | | | |
| Hillsborough on 15:57 - Sep 12 with 1586 views | daveB |
| Hillsborough on 15:47 - Sep 12 by Bedford_R |
Utter bollox., mate. Read the report. Listen to the Prime Minister. Get your head out of your arse... |
so has this report shown that fans didn't turn up late and charge in causing a crush. Blame on all sides in this sorry incident | | | |
| Hillsborough on 16:05 - Sep 12 with 1564 views | Bedford_R |
| Hillsborough on 15:57 - Sep 12 by daveB |
so has this report shown that fans didn't turn up late and charge in causing a crush. Blame on all sides in this sorry incident |
A tragedy nearly happened the year before at the same fixture. Lessons weren't learned. Sheffield Wednesday apologised as well. The ground was not fit for purpose. No safety certificate. Bad signing, etc.
The report says that. | |
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