| Called to account - Preview on 22:39 - Mar 3 with 3591 views | BrianMcCarthy |
Thanks Clive. |  |
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| Called to account - Preview on 23:13 - Mar 3 with 3507 views | Lblock |
I remember posting my “Caterham Concerns” what seems like a decade ago…… every chance that relegation could lead to that.
Oh well…… what a bedwetter
What I’ll never get head around is figures like 139 football staff on the books and a club that owns its stadium losing £2mill a month. Something schtinkz.
Tomorrow? Well it’s been a while…… must win!  |  |
| Cherish and enjoy life.... this ain't no dress rehearsal |
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| Called to account - Preview on 23:30 - Mar 3 with 3476 views | PunteR |
| Called to account - Preview on 23:13 - Mar 3 by Lblock |
I remember posting my “Caterham Concerns” what seems like a decade ago…… every chance that relegation could lead to that.
Oh well…… what a bedwetter
What I’ll never get head around is figures like 139 football staff on the books and a club that owns its stadium losing £2mill a month. Something schtinkz.
Tomorrow? Well it’s been a while…… must win! |
Yep loads of posters called it years ago. Loads have been calling out Les and Hoos too , but some people know better.
You'll have someone come along in a minute telling us that it could be worse , we could be trying to merge with Fulham or handing round buckets or we could have the Allams family running our club or something.
Ive tried being pragmatic or a happy clapper on here but i really cant be arsed anymore. |  |
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| Called to account - Preview on 23:50 - Mar 3 with 3456 views | KerryE |
Great analysis as ever, thank you.
As for the prediction, on paper we do not have much of a chance. Fingers crossed though. |  | | |
| Called to account - Preview on 05:54 - Mar 4 with 3242 views | BushRanger82 |
The days when clubs like ours could exist perpetually by the seat of their pants, are slowly, but most assuredly, coming to an end.
The premier league is way beyond our capabilities, and the championship is developing into a mirror image of the PL, one in which we are increasingly taking on the look of a very small fish, in an exceedingly large pond.
The wheel is almost turning full circle.
We are almost back to being the club formed in 1886, that took almost all of 60 years to reach the giddy heights of Div 2.
In this increasingly materialistic modern world we live in, the end won't be that long in coming.
Sad, because I love this club, but she could have been so much better, so much greater, but for the terminable lack of vision almost from day 1.
She simply exists, to exist. |  | | |
| Called to account - Preview on 06:53 - Mar 4 with 3188 views | DWQPR |
The accounts have certainly highlighted the major errors made by the board. We can blame Hoos and Ferdinand for the change of strategy in 2021-22 for the promotion push but I would imagine that they only went for this after a) being pressured by Warburton and b) getting the green light from the board. If this was so in my view if you are going to go for promotion then the big mistake was going for the quality of player we did sign rather then doing a ‘Forest’, at least then we would have some proper sellable assets. Players like Toffalo and O’Brien at `Huddersfield should have been identified who would have cost a lot less than what Forest paid for at the start of this season, instead we still depended on journeymen, the crocked and the discarded with maybe on Sam Field worth anything now from the list of signings. If ever their was a half-arsed promotion push that was it. But we can’t sack the board but the decisions to allow the staff grow to the extent it has must lay at the feet of Hoos and for Ferdinand to continue to remain as DofF whilst for eight years all the academy has genuinely produced from scratch is Ossis Kakay speaks volumes. The whole academy coaching staff have also failed. I appreciate that they are hamstrung to a degree by EPPP which when lined up against FFP is an absolute contradiction if not sick joke, but other clubs still manage to bring kids through. Maybe once again being a London club hampers us given the locality of other clubs to us for which I also include Arsenal, Spurs and Watford. For me it’s time to start looking at the Brentford B model in ernest and scrap the kids teams. The academy hasn’t not not worked for 8 years it hasn’t worked for two decades, before EPPP, before Kakay there was Richard Langley. And only when we start seeing kids loaned out to the league below us and not the lower reaches of non-league should we have any confidence that a player might be on the horizon. | |
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| Called to account - Preview on 08:18 - Mar 4 with 3079 views | ThGrimRanger |
there’s a lot of scrutiny and over analysis going on currently and understandably so. but it all boils down to the fact that we need to be well run, better run than our competitors. And we’re not, in fact quite the opposite. we’re spending above our means and have nothing to show for it because we continually make bad football decisions, be it in the academy or in our recruitment. |  |
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| Called to account - Preview on 09:18 - Mar 4 with 2928 views | Lblock |
| Called to account - Preview on 06:53 - Mar 4 by DWQPR |
The accounts have certainly highlighted the major errors made by the board. We can blame Hoos and Ferdinand for the change of strategy in 2021-22 for the promotion push but I would imagine that they only went for this after a) being pressured by Warburton and b) getting the green light from the board. If this was so in my view if you are going to go for promotion then the big mistake was going for the quality of player we did sign rather then doing a ‘Forest’, at least then we would have some proper sellable assets. Players like Toffalo and O’Brien at `Huddersfield should have been identified who would have cost a lot less than what Forest paid for at the start of this season, instead we still depended on journeymen, the crocked and the discarded with maybe on Sam Field worth anything now from the list of signings. If ever their was a half-arsed promotion push that was it. But we can’t sack the board but the decisions to allow the staff grow to the extent it has must lay at the feet of Hoos and for Ferdinand to continue to remain as DofF whilst for eight years all the academy has genuinely produced from scratch is Ossis Kakay speaks volumes. The whole academy coaching staff have also failed. I appreciate that they are hamstrung to a degree by EPPP which when lined up against FFP is an absolute contradiction if not sick joke, but other clubs still manage to bring kids through. Maybe once again being a London club hampers us given the locality of other clubs to us for which I also include Arsenal, Spurs and Watford. For me it’s time to start looking at the Brentford B model in ernest and scrap the kids teams. The academy hasn’t not not worked for 8 years it hasn’t worked for two decades, before EPPP, before Kakay there was Richard Langley. And only when we start seeing kids loaned out to the league below us and not the lower reaches of non-league should we have any confidence that a player might be on the horizon. |
Excellently put.
Top post | |
| Cherish and enjoy life.... this ain't no dress rehearsal |
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| Called to account - Preview on 09:37 - Mar 4 with 2878 views | enfieldargh |
| Called to account - Preview on 09:18 - Mar 4 by Lblock |
Excellently put.
Top post |
Clive has mentioned that Brentford's B team model is not viable any longer due to brexit disqualifying the ability to bring in overseas youngsters at low costs to play friendlys across Europe.
Said they are ready to reform an Academy system, no doubt fishing in the same West London/Middx pond as we do.
As for todays game we only really have Chris Martin as a goal scorer.
I'm hoing that GA manages to spark into life the likes of Lowe, Richards, Roberts as these guys are all we have to replace Illy & Willy.
You only had to be organised with a game plan and a couple of stand out forwrads to beat our team. Agbona scares the wotsits out of me which is pretty damming as he probably isnt on the radar of any other team.
Hugill, Washington, Clives already written the match report. :(
Would lke to be positive but that word cant be associated with QPR ATM even though 1,100 souls will travel to get behind the team.
2-0 millers |  |
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| Called to account - Preview on 10:08 - Mar 4 with 2810 views | Blue_Castello |
| Called to account - Preview on 06:53 - Mar 4 by DWQPR |
The accounts have certainly highlighted the major errors made by the board. We can blame Hoos and Ferdinand for the change of strategy in 2021-22 for the promotion push but I would imagine that they only went for this after a) being pressured by Warburton and b) getting the green light from the board. If this was so in my view if you are going to go for promotion then the big mistake was going for the quality of player we did sign rather then doing a ‘Forest’, at least then we would have some proper sellable assets. Players like Toffalo and O’Brien at `Huddersfield should have been identified who would have cost a lot less than what Forest paid for at the start of this season, instead we still depended on journeymen, the crocked and the discarded with maybe on Sam Field worth anything now from the list of signings. If ever their was a half-arsed promotion push that was it. But we can’t sack the board but the decisions to allow the staff grow to the extent it has must lay at the feet of Hoos and for Ferdinand to continue to remain as DofF whilst for eight years all the academy has genuinely produced from scratch is Ossis Kakay speaks volumes. The whole academy coaching staff have also failed. I appreciate that they are hamstrung to a degree by EPPP which when lined up against FFP is an absolute contradiction if not sick joke, but other clubs still manage to bring kids through. Maybe once again being a London club hampers us given the locality of other clubs to us for which I also include Arsenal, Spurs and Watford. For me it’s time to start looking at the Brentford B model in ernest and scrap the kids teams. The academy hasn’t not not worked for 8 years it hasn’t worked for two decades, before EPPP, before Kakay there was Richard Langley. And only when we start seeing kids loaned out to the league below us and not the lower reaches of non-league should we have any confidence that a player might be on the horizon. |
Exactly been reading all the information and the nightmare spending revolves around the promotion push, Hoos is on record saying that he does 3 year projections for the finances so none of this will come as a shock to the board, Warburton must have been pushing for more players for the promotion push knowing what this would do to our finances, that's definitely on Warburtons CV.
Let's not forget that the season before we were spiralling toward relegation until Austin, Johansen, Field and De wijs were signed, that Summer everybody was clamouring for us to make the loans permanent signings and add a few more, very few people upset at the time that we we were building what looked like a promtion contending team, we all know the story after that, the word hindsight springs to mind.
There's so many what ifs out there because if we hadn't had the injuries in the second half of the season it may just have worked and we would have made the play offs. If we make the decision to just buy players that fit within an acceptable wage structure then we're looking at League 1.
A lot of cost cutting coming up in the Summer, with plenty of players to offload and release who are not on contract, plus some questions about the numbers of back room staff, fingers and toes crossed its in the Championship. [Post edited 4 Mar 2023 10:26]
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| Called to account - Preview on 11:05 - Mar 4 with 2700 views | Noelmc |
Thanks Clive.
Very clear analysis of our financial predicament with regard to FFP/Profit & Sustainability rules.
On the football side a double on Hugill & Washington to score looks a tempting bet. |  | | |
| Called to account - Preview on 14:21 - Mar 4 with 2372 views | stainrods_elbow |
A fiscal analysis as committed as it is concerning - though I would really like to now see the club/owners/Hoos responding in detail to it. Are Ruben and Amit amenable to being interviewed, Clive, and/or have you tried, so they can validate or repudiate your commentary and that of others? The fans deserve that much at least, which of course probably means we won't get it.
It's a depressingly dichotomous view, however, to say we either go 'shit or bust' or pay less and drop. If things were that simple, football would be played on balance sheets, coaches would be pointless, and they're not and it isn't. Austin, de Wiijs and Johansen turned out to be injury-prone, disinterested and/or poor investments, and the likes of Bonne and Gray rarely delivered, so that proves that you can recruit at a 'higher' end of the market, and still fail for footballing and/or medical reasons.
Re the Academy, the differences between Cat 1 and Cat 2 seem chicken feed to me in terms of compensation. As a 'smaller' club, whatever our set-up, we're always going to be vulnerable to having our assets kidnapped, as the cases of Bowler and Sterling dispiritingly show. Meanwhile the more we sell to keep 'afloat' , the more expectations are driven downwards andthe more likely we are to fail to build a stable and competitive side that can take us higher. Personally, I long for the days of the Football Combination and South Eastern Counties League when we had the joys of bringing through the likes of Goddard and Allen, watching them ripping it up (as I did) before the first team took the field on a Saturday at 3pm (remember them?), and really having a truly joined-up footballing culture in the club.
As a fan, though I am often close to despair with QPR and modern football these days, my main concerns are with what happens on the field - how we are coached, organised, and inspired. As has been happily pointed out, after the bad taste in the mouth left by Beale and the limp legacy of Critchley's reign, we have a committed, coaching team in place, a new training ground, and a sprinkling of quality players (when fit, motivated and playing to their potential) - Dieng, Chair, and Willock are among the best in their positions in the whole division. There is no reason at all, as far as I can see, why we can't compete, however precariously, with just about everyone, with the possible exception of the likes of parachute-perverted Burnley.
Meanwhile, my hope is that FFP will eventually transform from FFS into another more realistic and sustainable form, unless the EFL want to punish more and more clubs for 'malpractice'. Unfortunately, however, I suspect their management structure isn't fit for purpose either. [Post edited 4 Mar 2023 21:05]
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| Called to account - Preview on 19:39 - Mar 4 with 1967 views | themodfather |
hi clive, anyone. qpr reportedly bought land around old oak, we saw images of the plots around the cargiant site and crossrail/hs1 route.
do we still own that land? did we sell it? did we earn or lose on the deals?
then there is the ongoing mess of warren farm, all these plans, hearings etc add up and cost.
2 huge white elephants around our necks , would these be "write offs"?
my knowledge of big finance is limited but if i earn £100 a week i can't go down footy, the pub, buy the powder and not be able to pay the rent, food, heat etc and be £50 short each week, crazy budgeting. | | | |
| Called to account - Preview on 23:41 - Mar 4 with 1707 views | nadera78 |
| Called to account - Preview on 19:39 - Mar 4 by themodfather |
hi clive, anyone. qpr reportedly bought land around old oak, we saw images of the plots around the cargiant site and crossrail/hs1 route.
do we still own that land? did we sell it? did we earn or lose on the deals?
then there is the ongoing mess of warren farm, all these plans, hearings etc add up and cost.
2 huge white elephants around our necks , would these be "write offs"?
my knowledge of big finance is limited but if i earn £100 a week i can't go down footy, the pub, buy the powder and not be able to pay the rent, food, heat etc and be £50 short each week, crazy budgeting. |
There were a couple of plots of land bought back when the owners were pursuing the Old Oak development. One plot, Oaklands Rise at the top of Old Oak Common Lane, is being developed with a housing association - some of the flats will be sold and some kept as rental units.
Whether QPR makes anything on them depends on whether or not the club owns the land. I'm not sure it was ever made clear if it was the club or the owners (or some of them) that owned it. | | | |
| Called to account - Preview on 23:42 - Mar 4 with 1707 views | SimonD |
| Called to account - Preview on 19:39 - Mar 4 by themodfather |
hi clive, anyone. qpr reportedly bought land around old oak, we saw images of the plots around the cargiant site and crossrail/hs1 route.
do we still own that land? did we sell it? did we earn or lose on the deals?
then there is the ongoing mess of warren farm, all these plans, hearings etc add up and cost.
2 huge white elephants around our necks , would these be "write offs"?
my knowledge of big finance is limited but if i earn £100 a week i can't go down footy, the pub, buy the powder and not be able to pay the rent, food, heat etc and be £50 short each week, crazy budgeting. |
The 2019/20 accounts contained a write off of approximately £4.5m costs accrued against Warren Farm. As an infrastructure project this was outside of the scope of FFP.
I've not recall anything regarding land purchases in Old Oak Common. Either the land was purchased by another entity, or the club only ever had options to buy. | | | |
| Called to account - Preview on 06:34 - Mar 5 with 1572 views | DWQPR |
| Called to account - Preview on 23:42 - Mar 4 by SimonD |
The 2019/20 accounts contained a write off of approximately £4.5m costs accrued against Warren Farm. As an infrastructure project this was outside of the scope of FFP.
I've not recall anything regarding land purchases in Old Oak Common. Either the land was purchased by another entity, or the club only ever had options to buy. |
The land which is now known as Oakland Rise was a joint development between QPR Holdings (there was even a picture of the club badge on the hoardings by the site) and Genesis Homes. The site is no complete and if memory serves me right there was even press coverage of praise that the development opened up the whole site for the OODC. The site is on the corner as you come over the bridge on Old Oak Common Lane from Victoria Road.
https://www.qpr.co.uk/news/club-news/qpr-genesis-housing-get-go-ahead-for-oaklan [Post edited 5 Mar 2023 6:36]
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| Called to account - Preview on 17:05 - Mar 5 with 1292 views | themodfather |
cheers for replies about "land" i was hoping we had a secret wealth there to cash in! it's always the hope that gets you! | | | |
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