| FFP decision in - not good 14:01 - Oct 24 with 50735 views | Northernr |
Arbitration found in favour of the league, basically protecting its role as a lawmaker that can set the rules for its competition as it sees fit. It leaves QPR liable to paying the fine in full, £40m-£60m
https://www.qpr.co.uk/news/club-news/qpr-financial-fair-play-dispute/
The club will be launching an appeal against this which will basically drag the whole thing on for another two years or so. They've a good chance in that, on the grounds of proptionality - you can fine HSBC £1.4bn but you can't fine the local Spar Shop the same amount for the same offence. Basically leaves the whole club, everybody that works there, the training ground development and us supporters in limbo for another two years. But yeh, at least Harry won us a promotion right?
Hopefully critics of Ferdinand, Hoos, Holloway, even Hasselbaink, and basically everybody that's been left to clear up the mess left by Hughes, Redknapp, Beard and most of all Fernandes previously now appreciate what a fcking tight spot they're all in.
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| FFP decision in - not good on 19:01 - Oct 24 with 3202 views | QPR_John |
| FFP decision in - not good on 18:27 - Oct 24 by daveB |
trouble is the rule was you can lose 18million a season then every pound lost after that would be matched as a fine. We signed up to that and lost over 70million that year so really QPR have no one to blame but themself. No other club will get a fine like that because no other club will be managed so badly from the top that they fail FFP so badly |
There is a post in this thread saying Bournemouth were fined under FFP £7.6M for a loss of £38.3M. By the rules you state the fine should have been £20.3M |  | | |
| FFP decision in - not good on 19:02 - Oct 24 with 3201 views | daveB |
| FFP decision in - not good on 18:44 - Oct 24 by bosh67 |
After a deep breath the truth is that nothing much changes for now. We carry on under our normal cloud of potential disaster and we'll know how bad it is in 2 years. Meantime, almost certainly some deal will be cut.
The club is virtually operating under a self imposed embargo and a program to promote from within, so I don't really think much will change. The club seems to have been preparing for the worst.
It may level out our expectations as fans. Who knows, it may actually galvanise the club. backs to the wall, that has traditionally been when we have been at our best. |
you'd hope this would bring fans together and get behind current regime but already on facebook i'm reading that Ferdinand has been asset stripping in recent years so people will still see what they want to and nothing will change |  | | |
| FFP decision in - not good on 19:08 - Oct 24 with 3174 views | terryb |
| FFP decision in - not good on 18:27 - Oct 24 by daveB |
trouble is the rule was you can lose 18million a season then every pound lost after that would be matched as a fine. We signed up to that and lost over 70million that year so really QPR have no one to blame but themself. No other club will get a fine like that because no other club will be managed so badly from the top that they fail FFP so badly |
That sums it up perfectly Dave.
As much as I would like to place the blame for this on Hughes, Redknapp, Beard & the agents, I can't.
That we are now in this mess is because our senior management & owners took the decision to ignore FFP for that season. We rejoined the Football League in the summer of 2013 & by doing so we accepted the rules that were in place. This included the FFP rules & what our liability would be if we failed to pass the threshold.
Of course, we may have failed FFP due to the cost of honouring players contracts that were already in existance, but that loss would have been nowhere near the £70 million that we ended up with.
Instead we signed further players on wages that were far too high for the Championship & would alone, vastly exceed our total income for the season. If we had tried to reduce our losses to a minimum, the chances are that we wouldn't have been promoted. However, our punishment would have been far less & possibly just transfer embargos.
Our club, through our board, took the gamble that we would gain promotion & never be relegated, so that the FL wouldn't be able tyo enforce our punishment. | | | |
| FFP decision in - not on 19:08 - Oct 24 with 3171 views | stevec |
The truth out at last.
Curious whether the fine is levied on the club or the Directors. If the club personally I'd rather we refused to pay and took demotion to non league. I'm somewhat stunned at the moment but the thought of this dragging on any longer an absolute no no.
Needs the FA to spell out now exactly what they intend. I'd be in favour of direct action/disruption if this is confirmed as a serious threat to the clubs supporters. If Rich men decide to run roughshod over the rules, we should not be the ones footing the bill. |  | | |
| FFP decision in - not good on 19:12 - Oct 24 with 3155 views | terryb |
| FFP decision in - not good on 19:01 - Oct 24 by QPR_John |
There is a post in this thread saying Bournemouth were fined under FFP £7.6M for a loss of £38.3M. By the rules you state the fine should have been £20.3M |
I believe that the rule and punishments had been changed by the time Bournemouth received their fine. That is why the fines are incomparable. | | | |
| FFP decision in - not good on 19:17 - Oct 24 with 3115 views | Brightonhoop |
| FFP decision in - not good on 19:01 - Oct 24 by QPR_John |
There is a post in this thread saying Bournemouth were fined under FFP £7.6M for a loss of £38.3M. By the rules you state the fine should have been £20.3M |
I think Bournemouth came after us, and the £ to £ rule for fines had been diluted by then and accepted as perverse. And harshly damaging. As it was applied to Blackburn EFL now have little wriggle room unless Blackburn and others come after them if they apply the newer rules to us. And not them.
FFP has been a disaster since it's inception. What's the point of harnessing Club spending in the EFL whilst over spending is rife in the Prem which actively encourages over spending in the EFL? Two completely different cultures, two different Authorities, conspiring with Sky to ruin the bloody game. There's no logic in it's thought or application. Whole thing needs to be killed off and re-thought. [Post edited 24 Oct 2017 19:21]
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| FFP decision in - not good on 19:20 - Oct 24 with 3094 views | terryb |
| FFP decision in - not good on 18:25 - Oct 24 by daveB |
Most of them were given out pre that season but we still paid wages for SWP, Remy, Granero, Cesar, Mbia and others along with the bulk of that promotion team on prem money like Barton, Green, Traore, Ned, Zamora etc
Add to that we signed the following during that season all on good wages and big fees for a few of them plus loan fees for some
Danny Simpson,
Richard Dunne,
Karl Henry
Charlie Austin
Gary O'Neil
Matt Phillips
Javier Cheverton
Oguchi Onyewu
Yossi Benayoun
Niko Kranjcar
Aaron Hughes
Kevin Doyle
Ravel Morrison
Tom Carroll
Will keane
That West ham Donkey
I've probably forgotten a few as well |
Having looked it up, there are three names to add to your list.
Donaldson as a full transfer & two on loan, Delatore & Assou-Ekoto.
So that was eleven players fully signed & eight loaned in. | | | |
| FFP decision in - not good on 19:24 - Oct 24 with 3072 views | tommytanker |
Simple answer to this - sign Austin on loan. | | | |
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| FFP decision in - not good on 19:35 - Oct 24 with 3012 views | Brightonhoop |
| FFP decision in - not good on 19:24 - Oct 24 by tommytanker |
Simple answer to this - sign Austin on loan. |
The fine is equivilent to 15 Charie Austins. In old money. And 6 Sandros.
If Rednap drops down dead in the days ahead TF better have himself a good alibi lol. | | | |
| FFP decision in - not on 19:59 - Oct 24 with 2898 views | daveB |
| FFP decision in - not on 19:08 - Oct 24 by stevec |
The truth out at last.
Curious whether the fine is levied on the club or the Directors. If the club personally I'd rather we refused to pay and took demotion to non league. I'm somewhat stunned at the moment but the thought of this dragging on any longer an absolute no no.
Needs the FA to spell out now exactly what they intend. I'd be in favour of direct action/disruption if this is confirmed as a serious threat to the clubs supporters. If Rich men decide to run roughshod over the rules, we should not be the ones footing the bill. |
fine will be to the club. I don't think throwing our toys out of the pram and dropping down to non league is a serious option though | | | |
| FFP decision in - not good on 20:05 - Oct 24 with 2864 views | BasingstokeR |
Don't understand the "not disproportionate" part. Especially if the rules were then changed.
If the panel had found the proposed fine "disproportionate" (which I can't see how it isn't) would that have given other clubs an immediate angle for litigation maybe?
In theory is any fine levied factored into future FFP calculations? |  | | |
| FFP decision in - not good on 20:06 - Oct 24 with 2858 views | QPR_John |
| FFP decision in - not good on 19:12 - Oct 24 by terryb |
I believe that the rule and punishments had been changed by the time Bournemouth received their fine. That is why the fines are incomparable. |
Exactly the FL must have been aware of the perverse nature of how they calculated the fine and hence changed it which makes it odd they are calculating the fine under rules which they themselves found excessive. | | | |
| FFP decision in - not good on 20:06 - Oct 24 with 2862 views | kropotkin41 |
It seems to me that, with the exception of a day out at Wembley (for most of which game we were clearly second best), since 2011 the gods of football have conspired to entirely ruin football for me...... all it would take now would be Ollie to get sacked and that'd be it..... What a drag following football has become: a world full of plastic premiership "fans" and Rangers seemingly holed below the waterline. |  |
| ‘morbid curiosity about where this is all going’ |
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| FFP decision in - not good on 20:10 - Oct 24 with 2822 views | Hunterhoop |
As Bosh and DaveB alluded to, I really hopes this galvanised support behind the club. It certainly makes me want to cheer the club, Hoos, Les, Holloway, Ramsey, Hall, Furlong, etc, and the team itself on more vociferously. It's not their fault. They are having to lead our dear club and clear up others' mess.
I still think we have been royally fcuked by the FL (thanks, Clive), and this abitration panel of unempathatic QCs. This fine is simply not proportionate given what's happened since, to us, other clubs, and with the rule change on fines. The club are showing that we're complying with the principles now. That must count for something. Good behaviour and all. They're punishing a club now behaving exactly as they wanted! Christ, this fine is disproportionate! Utter vvankers.
Hopefully EVERY fan can get behind was Lee and Les are doing. It's our best defence in reducing the fine.
I'm sure we'll appeal the severity, and we'll negotiate them down in fine and possibly be able to pay in instalments.
What it will mean is the club will be operating on a shoestring, as per now, made up is misfits. Beggars can't be choosers and all that! It'll be a phenomenal feat to stay up each season.
If you can't get behind the club now, us against them, whenever will you?! You're simply no fan if you don't. |  | | |
| FFP decision in - not good on 20:11 - Oct 24 with 2822 views | QPR_John |
| FFP decision in - not good on 20:05 - Oct 24 by BasingstokeR |
Don't understand the "not disproportionate" part. Especially if the rules were then changed.
If the panel had found the proposed fine "disproportionate" (which I can't see how it isn't) would that have given other clubs an immediate angle for litigation maybe?
In theory is any fine levied factored into future FFP calculations? |
I wondered this myself it would seem strange but knowing the FL anything is possible. We get fined £58M and then fail FFP because we lost £58M and then fail FFP because of a loss due to the second fine and so on and so on | | | |
| FFP decision in - not on 20:20 - Oct 24 with 2775 views | stevec |
| FFP decision in - not on 19:59 - Oct 24 by daveB |
fine will be to the club. I don't think throwing our toys out of the pram and dropping down to non league is a serious option though |
Well if the owners decide there's no chance of recovering a huge fine there's every chance they'll walk anyway.
At that point, we may get a new owner which may be a solution or be a club sitting on a huge debt it cannot finance. If that were to be the case might be better to take the non league hit sooner rather than later.
I'd guess the owners will decide to convert the cash injection that covered the cumulative losses of £200m, or at least the amount of any fine, back into debt for the club to pay the fine. That said, given there's virtually no hope for a new stadium, the new training ground never materialising I am struggling to understand what the hell they are hanging round for. | | | |
| FFP decision in - not good on 20:30 - Oct 24 with 2721 views | CliveWilsonSaid |
| FFP decision in - not good on 20:11 - Oct 24 by QPR_John |
I wondered this myself it would seem strange but knowing the FL anything is possible. We get fined £58M and then fail FFP because we lost £58M and then fail FFP because of a loss due to the second fine and so on and so on |
That would be utterly ludicrous. |  |
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| FFP decision in - not good on 20:45 - Oct 24 with 2621 views | CliveWilsonSaid |
It's like Brexit.
Somebody needs to clarify what the fck is going on. Has anyone got a good address at the football league to write to? If they're going to take my football club to the cleaners I want to know about it. | |
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| FFP decision in - not good on 20:50 - Oct 24 with 2586 views | Hunterhoop |
| FFP decision in - not good on 20:45 - Oct 24 by CliveWilsonSaid |
It's like Brexit.
Somebody needs to clarify what the fck is going on. Has anyone got a good address at the football league to write to? If they're going to take my football club to the cleaners I want to know about it. |
I was thinking about that. How do we protest? Or at the very least egg them and let their car tyres down? | | | |
| FFP decision in - not good on 20:50 - Oct 24 with 2588 views | WrightUp5hit___ |
An actual quote from ar5emangle Shaun Harvey
“This decision vindicates the approach of the EFL board in defending this challenge,” said EFL chief executive officer Shaun Harvey. “The board will continue to enforce our rules on clubs to protect the interests of those that do comply.
“The board understand the challenges that this decision could create for our valued, member club and will work with them, as and when the matter formally concludes.
“It has taken a long time to get to this outcome and I'd like to publicly thank all those individuals who have supported our approach.” |  | | |
| FFP decision in - not good on 20:51 - Oct 24 with 2582 views | Hunterhoop |
That's positive. That's 30% reduction in just a few hours. They'll be owing us by this time tomorrow.
Back to reality....BASTARDS! | | | |
| FFP decision in - not on 20:51 - Oct 24 with 2586 views | daveB |
| FFP decision in - not on 20:20 - Oct 24 by stevec |
Well if the owners decide there's no chance of recovering a huge fine there's every chance they'll walk anyway.
At that point, we may get a new owner which may be a solution or be a club sitting on a huge debt it cannot finance. If that were to be the case might be better to take the non league hit sooner rather than later.
I'd guess the owners will decide to convert the cash injection that covered the cumulative losses of £200m, or at least the amount of any fine, back into debt for the club to pay the fine. That said, given there's virtually no hope for a new stadium, the new training ground never materialising I am struggling to understand what the hell they are hanging round for. |
If Fernandes walked tomorrow and sold up then we'd still have this hanging over us | | | |
| FFP decision in - not good on 20:51 - Oct 24 with 2583 views | stevec |
| FFP decision in - not good on 20:45 - Oct 24 by CliveWilsonSaid |
It's like Brexit.
Somebody needs to clarify what the fck is going on. Has anyone got a good address at the football league to write to? If they're going to take my football club to the cleaners I want to know about it. |
Well said.
It's only the fans who can force some rationality here, the fckin owners are beyond incompetent. | | | |
| FFP decision in - not on 20:52 - Oct 24 with 2576 views | stevec |
| FFP decision in - not on 20:51 - Oct 24 by daveB |
If Fernandes walked tomorrow and sold up then we'd still have this hanging over us |
I know, that's what I said | | | |
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