Forum | u23,s match v millwall. by connell10

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u23,s match v millwall. 13:41 - Mar 12 with 5256 views

Being shown live on the rangers offy.

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u23,s match v millwall. on 14:01 - Mar 14 with 1819 views

Antti_Heinola

u23,s match v millwall. on 13:54 - Mar 14 by smegma
It's utterly ridiculous.

But WHY? I'm not having a go, Smegster, I just don't know! Genuinely asking for your reasoning. For me, it seems sensible to test and trial as many players as you want in U23 games. It's not like the results are the most important thing. We're in a situation where we can't afford transfer fees. Looking at as many players as possible at that sort of level seems fair enough? Totally willing to accept I might be 100% wrong, but if I am, I'd like to know why!

[Post edited 14 Mar 2018 14:02]

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u23,s match v millwall. on 14:15 - Mar 14 with 1784 views

1JD

u23,s match v millwall. on 14:01 - Mar 14 by Antti_Heinola

[Post edited 14 Mar 2018 14:02]

The statistics are as follows:

22 Pro Development League South games played
60 players used in total
16 players from first team
5 from u18s
8 trialists
30 u23s, 5 of which have graduated to first team, and 5 of which have since been released.
20 u23s remaining.
Full appearance list below, including subs.

Everything seems in order, I’m still not sure what your issue is here Smegma or what your point is?

–––––––––––––––––––

1. Lumley - 3
2. Kakay - 19
3. Hamalainen - 13
4. Goss - 6
5. Paul - 11
6. Phillips - 15
7. Fox - 11
8. Petrasso - 5
9. Oteh - 13
10. Darbyshire - 12
11. Eze - 3
12. Grego-Cox - 7
13. Rowe - 8
14. Dieng - 12
15. Comley - 1
16. Prohouly - 2
17. Tilt - 15
18. Wallen - 10
19. Owens - 12
20. Akinola - 13
21. Cardoso - 2
22. Alfa - 8
23. Baptiste - 1
24. Chair - 6
25. Smyth - 4
26. Cousins - 2
27. Williams - 10
28. Hill - 1
29. Borysiuk - 5
30. Bowman - 1
31. Stylianides - 7
32. Herdman - 4
33. Genovesi - 2
34. Lua Lua - 3
35. Shodipo - 10
36. Caulker - 3
37. Hall - 3
38. Dalling - 6
39. Eshun - 2
40. Hudnott - 2
41. Chaney - 1
42. Christie - 1
43. Ngbakoto - 2
44. Cooper - 1
45. Eyoma - 2
46. Brzozowski - 1
47. Perch - 2
48. JET - 3
49. Furlong - 1
50. Lynch - 1
51. Manning - 3
52. BOS - 1
53. Christie-Davies - 1
54. Remy - 1
55. Mesias - 2
56. Platt - 1
57. Cherdieu - 1
58. Wells - 1
59. Sylla - 1
60. Mackie - 1

u23,s match v millwall. on 19:04 - Mar 14 with 1719 views

smegma

u23,s match v millwall. on 14:15 - Mar 14 by 1JD

And what's your point, that I'm not telling the truth??

We've also played 11 friendlies , the last being away to Havant and Waterlooville in December.

You missed out

Ali 1 Adebowale 1 Bettache 1 Bansal-McNulty 1 Belinfante 1 Corner 1 Dauti 1 Davies 1 El-Khayati 2 Francis 1 Fanimo 1 Finney 3 Kioso 1 Kaiser 1 Kuffour 1 Mucumbu 1 Miller 1 Marlow 1 Noel-McLeod 1 Omar 1 Rumens 1 Ribeiro 1

That's according our official website .

u23,s match v millwall. on 19:15 - Mar 14 with 1704 views

danehoop

When looked at like that, it is an astonishingly high number of players for a small west London side in the Championship.

Never knowingly understood

u23,s match v millwall. on 20:29 - Mar 14 with 1656 views

1JD

u23,s match v millwall. on 19:04 - Mar 14 by smegma

No, I feel you have quoted several flimsy statistics to support a rather strange argument in my opinion, especially given youth acquisition is a core part of club strategy.

The vast majority of players we have used are in fact our own. A maximum 8 have been trialied in 22 league games. And the bulk of the u23s appearances which you have a problem with is actually a result of senior players and u18s being included on different occasions. Both of which should be celebrated

So I’m still kinda struggling to see where you are coming from that’s all I’m saying

u23,s match v millwall. on 21:57 - Mar 14 with 1588 views

smegma

u23,s match v millwall. on 20:29 - Mar 14 by 1JD

Flimsy stats? They are stats. That's all I'm saying. Having spoken to 2 ex QPR players and a former coach who attend under 23 games they said they've never heard anything like it at a Championship club. We're not a Champions League team. One of them also said it's not fair on the kids. You play well for a month then don't kick a ball in anger for the next month. If you think that's the way to run a football club then we will have to agree to differ.

u23,s match v millwall. on 22:44 - Mar 14 with 1545 views

bob566

u23,s match v millwall. on 21:57 - Mar 14 by smegma

Im with smeggers. He goes to all the youth games and knows the scene better than anybody on here.

u23,s match v millwall. on 22:45 - Mar 14 with 1543 views

PunteR

u23,s match v millwall. on 21:57 - Mar 14 by smegma

I know zilch about the under 23's set up but im with Smegma on this. I dont know how you can properly judge or analyze young or even teach young footballers when you have so many coming through the door like this.
I understand that as a club we're going to be playing catch up with the bigger clubs but there does seem to be a bit of desperation about this, getting youth players in. I could be wrong of course. There is also the danger of missing potential players as well.

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u23,s match v millwall. on 22:48 - Mar 14 with 1542 views

1JD

u23,s match v millwall. on 21:57 - Mar 14 by smegma

Ok here we go.

You called out only 3 senior players who have played for u23s as if it’s some kind of travesty. It’s 16. Actually it’s 17 if you want to do friendlies.
You called out 80+ players who have played, it’s 60. If you include friendlies to bump your number up then recognize several u18s played in those.
You called out a never ending list of trialists. It’s 8. Hardly extensive.
You failed to acknowledge the large number of appearances of u23s (52 players out of 60) is in fact inclusive of u18s and senior players, despite inferring this figure was swayed with non-QPR players.

The facts are we had a squad of circa 25 u23s this season. A rather typical squad number. 5 of which have since been released in Jan to free up u18s promotion for next season, and more will follow end of season. There is no problem. Stop making it out to be.

We should be celebrating talent acquisition, position rotation, and u18 try outs at a higher level, not lamenting it. You only have to take a look at the first team squad to see the results.

u23,s match v millwall. on 08:03 - Mar 15 with 1471 views

Dorse

Is number 54 on the list available for the play-offs?

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u23,s match v millwall. on 11:12 - Mar 15 with 1406 views

smegma

u23,s match v millwall. on 22:48 - Mar 14 by 1JD

And I called out flimsy stats?? Do you work for the clubs Propaganda Dept??

u23,s match v millwall. on 14:26 - Mar 15 with 1329 views

enfieldargh

a friend of mines son was asked to join QPR

Hes a great all round athlete.

QPR really chased him but his first love is Rugby and chose Saracens.

QPR told him he would not get many games as the fixture list is irregular.

I dont follow the games like others or know the players but its apparent n enough games for U23, surely there should be a least one game a week?

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u23,s match v millwall. on 14:31 - Mar 15 with 1322 views

vegasranger

I'm also with Smegma on this. A son of a good friend of mine player for the under 23's against Crystal Palace and scored the only goal of the game. Then Simon Ireland left and that was the end of him. Seems to be a scatter gun approach. The lad from West Ham who played this week for example, on the face of it hasn't been progressing much at the Hammers. Our actual under 23 players are getting very limited playing time, can' be doing much for their progress. Best performance I saw was at Brentford , full of under 23's putting a really great game of pass and move.

u23,s match v millwall. on 15:32 - Mar 15 with 1300 views

1JD

u23,s match v millwall. on 14:31 - Mar 15 by vegasranger

On the face of it? Which means what exactly? You mean you read an article and surmised he can’t be very good.

He is 18 years old, was the West Ham u18 captain, and has been with the club since 6 years old. No doubt he has something about him. What is the big problem in trailing players, seeing if they are any better than what we have got, and ultimately trying to improve our talent poole?

Lest we forget Eze was let go by Millwall. And Chay Tilt, let go by West Brom, is nearing a first team appearance with us. Oteh was let go by Spurs. There are countless examples of players being let go by some clubs, only to be picked up by others and have a great career.

I’ve watched over half of the u23 games this season. There has been a core set of players who have played the vast majority of games. And we have experimented with trialists and u18s here and there. Perhaps just perhaps your friends son wasn’t deemed good enough, despite scoring a goal?

u23,s match v millwall. on 18:52 - Mar 15 with 1262 views

PinnerPaul

u23,s match v millwall. on 18:02 - Mar 13 by 2Thomas2Bowles
Camp was wearing all black in the Sunderland game as was the ref Is that ok then?

Nope & it happens every week in the PL & FL as I've said before.

u23,s match v millwall. on 18:53 - Mar 15 with 1262 views

PinnerPaul

u23,s match v millwall. on 19:38 - Mar 13 by loftboy
When I used to Ref I would make the keeper change if he wore black.

Good man!

u23,s match v millwall. on 18:57 - Mar 15 with 1260 views

PinnerPaul

u23,s match v millwall. on 21:57 - Mar 14 by smegma

but as the 'senior' side below the 1st team, not sure what else we are supposed to do with

a) 'Youth' players who are too old for the U19s
b) Trialists
c) 1st team squad members who need minutes

u23,s match v millwall. on 23:36 - Mar 15 with 1172 views

BrianMcCarthy

Smegma's point is valid.

We would expect some trialists, of course and some first-teamers and Under-18's but the number is incredibly high by any estimation, and he's entitled to say so, and he's using stats to back up his point and has done for some time now.

We are trying to develop and coach players as well as assess their development. We need three teams at the club which are as settled as is possible. Clearly, even though the underage set-up is - in Smegma's own words - as good as it has been since the 90's there is work to be done in settling the U-23 group down.

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u23,s match v millwall. on 00:27 - Mar 16 with 1138 views

PunteR

u23,s match v millwall. on 15:32 - Mar 15 by 1JD

You cant judge a young lad on one game though can you.?
Vegas mates lad was deemed good enough to get a trial in the first place.

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u23,s match v millwall. on 07:48 - Mar 16 with 1089 views

1JD

u23,s match v millwall. on 23:36 - Mar 15 by BrianMcCarthy

That’s the whole point Brian, the stats and why I used the word “flimsy stats” in the first place - they don’t stack up. I should have spelt it out - inaccurate and misleading statistics.

I have watched over half of our games this year and think it is only fair to give an accurate representation of the numbers.

I repeat, 52 players of 60 used in 22 league games are our own. 16 of which are first teamers. 5 of which are u18s. 8 of which are trialists.

Which leaves 31 u23s. And 5 have been promoted to first team. There really is no big issue here.

And I’d advise you and any others to go and check out the appearances of the u23s of other clubs to really see if this number is so wayward.

As for one trial game is not enough PunteR, unfortunately that’s football.

[Post edited 16 Mar 2018 7:49]

u23,s match v millwall. on 09:24 - Mar 16 with 1042 views

BrianMcCarthy

u23,s match v millwall. on 07:48 - Mar 16 by 1JD

[Post edited 16 Mar 2018 7:49]

Smegma's including the friendly matches in his figures, and you aren't. Both valid, but it does explain the difference between your figures. I'm not doubting either of you.

Either way, I don't feel I have to take a side in this one, as there is no argument in my book. Whether it's 60, 70, 80 or more it's far too many and it testifies to the fact that we have too many players at the club.

I wouldn't expect to see a repeat next year as the pruning and good management continues.

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