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Charity Park Rangers, Soft under belly on 02:33 - Sep 21 by Benny_the_Ball
"Isn't that what we've seen since he's been managing us?".
No, not exactly. It certainly started that way but with QPR 4th from bottom at Christmas and Warburton facing the sack, he dipped into the loan market and adopted a slightly more pragmatic approach. This resulted in a tighter defence and a complete reversal of fortunes.
Having since secured the loan players on permanent deals, MW appears to have moved back towards a more risky brand of football instead of sticking with what made the team so successful in the second half of last season. For me, the football was no less enjoyable to watch during this period and we were winning football matches to boot. I'd like to see MW strike that balance again.
Don't forget though we had Cameron and then Field to bring on last season. He can't say this, as he's far too respectful, but he just hasn't got the harrying defensive midfielder who's also skilled enough not to get booked in the first five minutes and also bring the ball out of defence. Ball is a utility player for cameos and is a fine back up. But he's not got the ball skills of Field or Amos, and he makes a lot more mistakes in giving the ball away in vital areas.
The other thing is that teams have to some extent found us out. They've been countering our attractive game with the high press and the dark arts. It's easier to defend when you keep possession and we've always been vulnerable to the counter because the way we play, by bringing out the ball from defence with one of the central defenders bringing it out and acting as the additional midfielder. It's been a perfect storm with players being able to pull back or chop down without being booked, thus leaving our best players like Johansen, Chair and Willock more exposed to the cynical midfielder/defender combo.
If we have Amos and/or Field we can use them to bring the ball out of defence, leaving Dickie and Barbet to just do it occasionally rather than as a stock tactic, making it more dangerous.
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Charity Park Rangers, Soft under belly on 07:45 - Sep 21 with 972 views
Charity Park Rangers, Soft under belly on 20:38 - Sep 20 by LazyFan
Here is a previous example of Ball losing the ball and costing us a goal:
At 1.41 Kakay wins the ball gives it to Dom who dallies and costs us a goal.
For ill-discipline on the 2nd, we agree.
[Post edited 20 Sep 2021 20:40]
Yes OK he got caught v Boro, just like Dykes fooked up for the Boro first goal, and the ball was knicked but surely no blame on Ball for any goals against Bristol, as you have stated.
Ball gets the blame far to frequently and criticized but sadly all the team work he does goes very unnoticed.
[Post edited 21 Sep 2021 7:47]
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Charity Park Rangers, Soft under belly on 07:48 - Sep 21 with 958 views
Charity Park Rangers, Soft under belly on 02:33 - Sep 21 by Benny_the_Ball
"Isn't that what we've seen since he's been managing us?".
No, not exactly. It certainly started that way but with QPR 4th from bottom at Christmas and Warburton facing the sack, he dipped into the loan market and adopted a slightly more pragmatic approach. This resulted in a tighter defence and a complete reversal of fortunes.
Having since secured the loan players on permanent deals, MW appears to have moved back towards a more risky brand of football instead of sticking with what made the team so successful in the second half of last season. For me, the football was no less enjoyable to watch during this period and we were winning football matches to boot. I'd like to see MW strike that balance again.
That's quite a nuanced view. I agree with many who feel Field would make a difference but you're talking about tactical differences between this and last season. What have you seen?
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Charity Park Rangers, Soft under belly on 08:29 - Sep 21 with 913 views
Charity Park Rangers, Soft under belly on 13:45 - Sep 19 by ngbqpr
Depressing thread.
When did football become a game where you're only ever one game away from a crisis? Where EVERY SINGLE point dropped / goal conceded / chance missed causes such anger and finger pointing?
Time to take a break from the forum and stick with Northern's previews & reports. Tbh I rarely post anymore 'cos 9 times out of 10, Nix has already said exactly what I was going to say.
UUURRRsss
100%. I stopped posting at the beginning of the year and just have the occasional look in here and am reminded straight away why I stopped. There are a couple of exceptional posters whose views I enjoy reading, nix being one of them, but there are are far too many antagonistic, condescending, spiteful posters who take pleasure in goading and criticising other people who have a different view. Life’s too short.
Edit: I would add, for balance, that there are many decent human beings on here. The windsoR thread was heartwarming. Unfortunately, the rogue element infects far too many threads.
Charity Park Rangers, Soft under belly on 06:50 - Sep 21 by nix
Don't forget though we had Cameron and then Field to bring on last season. He can't say this, as he's far too respectful, but he just hasn't got the harrying defensive midfielder who's also skilled enough not to get booked in the first five minutes and also bring the ball out of defence. Ball is a utility player for cameos and is a fine back up. But he's not got the ball skills of Field or Amos, and he makes a lot more mistakes in giving the ball away in vital areas.
The other thing is that teams have to some extent found us out. They've been countering our attractive game with the high press and the dark arts. It's easier to defend when you keep possession and we've always been vulnerable to the counter because the way we play, by bringing out the ball from defence with one of the central defenders bringing it out and acting as the additional midfielder. It's been a perfect storm with players being able to pull back or chop down without being booked, thus leaving our best players like Johansen, Chair and Willock more exposed to the cynical midfielder/defender combo.
If we have Amos and/or Field we can use them to bring the ball out of defence, leaving Dickie and Barbet to just do it occasionally rather than as a stock tactic, making it more dangerous.
“High presss dark arts “ sounds familiar we have had a soft underbelly for years we would get loads of plaudits from media and opposing fans especially after beating us.The last 2 seasons in the championship we started recruiting bigger more physical players and played a more direct game at times rather than the predictable pass pass pass for 90 minutes.I agree about teams finding you out it was common knowledge that we always struggled against teams like Cardiff,Millwall and Stoke as we would get bullied out of the game.Going back to Warburtons time with us when we reached the play offs Middlesborough over powered us due mainly to their physical advantage which we couldn’t match.We continued this under Dean Smith and we were too nice and moaning about teams who would manage games by slowing the pace by taking ages over dead ball situations and feigning injury sadly it has to be incorporated into your game if you want to succeed. Wolves fans moaned after the game that we were the most cynical cheating side they had seen for years and hope we get relegated when before the game they were saying all the usual “well run club “play good football “ “great to see them in the PL” stuff.Seen some of your games on the box this season and you do play good football and it should get you to the play offs but will it get you promoted.Warburton always says plan B is get plan A right which is spot on but plan A has to have some shithouserey gamesmanship included to get you over the line sadly.
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Charity Park Rangers, Soft under belly on 17:19 - Sep 21 with 727 views
Charity Park Rangers, Soft under belly on 08:40 - Sep 21 by switchingcode
“High presss dark arts “ sounds familiar we have had a soft underbelly for years we would get loads of plaudits from media and opposing fans especially after beating us.The last 2 seasons in the championship we started recruiting bigger more physical players and played a more direct game at times rather than the predictable pass pass pass for 90 minutes.I agree about teams finding you out it was common knowledge that we always struggled against teams like Cardiff,Millwall and Stoke as we would get bullied out of the game.Going back to Warburtons time with us when we reached the play offs Middlesborough over powered us due mainly to their physical advantage which we couldn’t match.We continued this under Dean Smith and we were too nice and moaning about teams who would manage games by slowing the pace by taking ages over dead ball situations and feigning injury sadly it has to be incorporated into your game if you want to succeed. Wolves fans moaned after the game that we were the most cynical cheating side they had seen for years and hope we get relegated when before the game they were saying all the usual “well run club “play good football “ “great to see them in the PL” stuff.Seen some of your games on the box this season and you do play good football and it should get you to the play offs but will it get you promoted.Warburton always says plan B is get plan A right which is spot on but plan A has to have some shithouserey gamesmanship included to get you over the line sadly.
Would say that Brentford turned all the lovely football no cynical side around when Jansson was signed as he is a master of the art then throw in Janelt and Toney and that's a quite cynical spine to the team. Toney does get pulled and dragged but generally has instigated it and reaps the reward when defenders react in the penalty area. Job done
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Charity Park Rangers, Soft under belly on 17:41 - Sep 21 with 698 views
Charity Park Rangers, Soft under belly on 07:45 - Sep 21 by gazza1
Yes OK he got caught v Boro, just like Dykes fooked up for the Boro first goal, and the ball was knicked but surely no blame on Ball for any goals against Bristol, as you have stated.
Ball gets the blame far to frequently and criticized but sadly all the team work he does goes very unnoticed.
[Post edited 21 Sep 2021 7:47]
He gave the ball away for BC 2nd, however as I stated before, it's not the players, but the approach overall that opens us up like this. Sometimes we have to be a bit boring like WBA and grind it out.
zzzzzzzzzz
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Charity Park Rangers, Soft under belly on 17:59 - Sep 21 with 675 views
Charity Park Rangers, Soft under belly on 06:50 - Sep 21 by nix
Don't forget though we had Cameron and then Field to bring on last season. He can't say this, as he's far too respectful, but he just hasn't got the harrying defensive midfielder who's also skilled enough not to get booked in the first five minutes and also bring the ball out of defence. Ball is a utility player for cameos and is a fine back up. But he's not got the ball skills of Field or Amos, and he makes a lot more mistakes in giving the ball away in vital areas.
The other thing is that teams have to some extent found us out. They've been countering our attractive game with the high press and the dark arts. It's easier to defend when you keep possession and we've always been vulnerable to the counter because the way we play, by bringing out the ball from defence with one of the central defenders bringing it out and acting as the additional midfielder. It's been a perfect storm with players being able to pull back or chop down without being booked, thus leaving our best players like Johansen, Chair and Willock more exposed to the cynical midfielder/defender combo.
If we have Amos and/or Field we can use them to bring the ball out of defence, leaving Dickie and Barbet to just do it occasionally rather than as a stock tactic, making it more dangerous.
I agree wholeheartedly on the first point. I've been saying for a while now that the loss of Field is key. There will be a lot of pressure on Amos now to successfully fill the void as there's precious little squad cover at defensive midfield. It's a position that is often underrated and many managers think they can slot any CM into the role but it takes a particular talent to do the job properly.
On the second point, I'm not sure I buy into the whole 'finding us out' theory. QPR successfully deployed the same formations throughout the second half of last season without being 'found out'. Opposition managers would have recognised the threats and tried to nullify them but for the most part they were unsuccessful. I think the key difference this season (aside from the loss of Field) is that we have more defenders bombing forward. Barbet, Dickie, Ball, McCallum, Wallace, etc. all make regular runs into the box, sometimes at the same time. As a result QPR this season have an excellent goal return from their defenders. Unfortunately this tactic leaves the team vulnerable to the counter attack and we often find ourselves needing at least 3 goals to win a match.
This goal return also masks the fact that our strikers are currently off colour. If the aim is to outscore the opposition every match with little regard for clean sheets then we need our strikers to fire. We can't expect Dickie to score 25 yard screamers every week.
On your final point, I agree that the insurance policy that Field provides enables the team to approach the game in a slightly different manner but his absence should not trigger a gung-ho approach from other defenders. Quite the opposite, in fact. QPR would be minded to keep it tight until a bonafide defensive midfielder returns from injury. Once that insurance policy is in place then some colleagues can afford to be more expansive.
Charity Park Rangers, Soft under belly on 07:48 - Sep 21 by dmm
That's quite a nuanced view. I agree with many who feel Field would make a difference but you're talking about tactical differences between this and last season. What have you seen?
Not at all. Formations and selections are one part of the puzzle. Tactical approach is quite another. Please see post above.
P.S. For avoidance of doubt, I personally don't believe that QPR has a soft underbelly. I merely suspect that MW has shifted slightly towards the more aggressive tactics he tried to implement in the first half of last season. Perhaps with his job now secure and an improved squad he feels that he can make a better job of these tactics. Personally I think he should look to trike a balance and employ the same approach that made QPR so successful in the second half of last season.
[Post edited 21 Sep 2021 18:21]
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Charity Park Rangers, Soft under belly on 18:25 - Sep 21 with 654 views
Charity Park Rangers, Soft under belly on 08:29 - Sep 21 by DejR_vu
100%. I stopped posting at the beginning of the year and just have the occasional look in here and am reminded straight away why I stopped. There are a couple of exceptional posters whose views I enjoy reading, nix being one of them, but there are are far too many antagonistic, condescending, spiteful posters who take pleasure in goading and criticising other people who have a different view. Life’s too short.
Edit: I would add, for balance, that there are many decent human beings on here. The windsoR thread was heartwarming. Unfortunately, the rogue element infects far too many threads.
[Post edited 21 Sep 2021 9:22]
I'm genuinely disheartened to read this.
Bear in mind that subconsciously you are more likely to consider those whose ramblings you agree with to be 'exceptional posters' and anyone with an opposite view to be 'antagonistic'. Others may take an opposite view. That's the beauty of message boards; despite our common love for QPR, forums by nature are a reflection of society in that we are a diverse bunch with differing opinions and expectations of our club. Disagreements and constructive criticism are a healthy part of the debate.
Regardless of where you stand in all of this, I would urge you as a fellow R to look past those posts you dislike (or, if you can't manage this, hit the ignore button) and join the debate. We need you!
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Charity Park Rangers, Soft under belly on 19:31 - Sep 21 with 626 views
Charity Park Rangers, Soft under belly on 18:25 - Sep 21 by Benny_the_Ball
I'm genuinely disheartened to read this.
Bear in mind that subconsciously you are more likely to consider those whose ramblings you agree with to be 'exceptional posters' and anyone with an opposite view to be 'antagonistic'. Others may take an opposite view. That's the beauty of message boards; despite our common love for QPR, forums by nature are a reflection of society in that we are a diverse bunch with differing opinions and expectations of our club. Disagreements and constructive criticism are a healthy part of the debate.
Regardless of where you stand in all of this, I would urge you as a fellow R to look past those posts you dislike (or, if you can't manage this, hit the ignore button) and join the debate. We need you!
It’s not the opposing views I have an issue with Benny, I welcome that and enjoy the debate. It’s the way some posters behave towards others. It degenerates from a healthy debate to something unpleasant very quickly with some people. It’s a minority, as I said in my edit there are a lot of genuinely good people on here, but the minority have a disproportionate impact.
Charity Park Rangers, Soft under belly on 19:31 - Sep 21 by DejR_vu
It’s not the opposing views I have an issue with Benny, I welcome that and enjoy the debate. It’s the way some posters behave towards others. It degenerates from a healthy debate to something unpleasant very quickly with some people. It’s a minority, as I said in my edit there are a lot of genuinely good people on here, but the minority have a disproportionate impact.
In any walk of life there are always a minority of knuckleheads. I'm guessing that's what the ignore button is for. Don't allow the minority to ruin your experience.
[Post edited 21 Sep 2021 22:28]
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Charity Park Rangers, Soft under belly on 22:02 - Sep 21 with 559 views
Charity Park Rangers, Soft under belly on 22:02 - Sep 21 by Benny_the_Ball
I've got to say, there was no sign of a soft underbelly in the penalty shootout. Nerves of steel!
Also good to see at 80 mins, we closed up shop. No high press, just 11 behind the ball and see if they could break us down. They couldn't as they had run out of steam and then we could do a few break-aways.
This is what we need to do most games, high press first half and behind the ball second. Grind em down until they break. Great change of tactics by Warbs.
[Post edited 21 Sep 2021 22:08]
zzzzzzzzzz
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Charity Park Rangers, Soft under belly on 22:11 - Sep 21 with 529 views
Charity Park Rangers, Soft under belly on 20:59 - Sep 21 by Benny_the_Ball
In any walk of life there are always a minority of knuckleheads. I'm guessing that's what the ignore button is for. Don't allow the minority to ruin your experience.
[Post edited 21 Sep 2021 22:28]
Agree with this. It's a great message board, made even better by the occasional use of the ignore button.
"The opposite of love, after all, is not hate, but indifference."
Charity Park Rangers, Soft under belly on 22:02 - Sep 21 by Benny_the_Ball
I've got to say, there was no sign of a soft underbelly in the penalty shootout. Nerves of steel!
Just in and the first thing I wanted to do was pull up this thread.
"Like to take your penalties first sir? Certainly. In front of your own fans sir? Certainly"
Not so much nerves of steel. More like great, big, fat, hairy balls of steel for me. Couldn't believe when I saw Duke-McKenna stride up and wallop it home.
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