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2) Spend at least another £2m per season to attempt to reach Cat 1 status. This still doesn't ensure we can keep these kids, we'd just get better compensation for them. We also would need to spend that for at least one, and probably two, seasons before achieving that status (this would be outside of the scope of FFP)
3) Exit the EPPP scheme so the other clubs would have no right to pick off our talent. This, as I understand it, would mean forgoing the £5m+ the Premier League subsidise us by every season.
The options and amounts are all from memory, so if anyone has more up-to-date info I'd be glad to hear it.
2
Why didn’t QPR make more signings in January? podcast on 09:51 - Feb 3 with 1726 views
Why didn’t QPR make more signings in January? podcast on 18:23 - Feb 2 by Dixie_CT
There are alternatives and this video is one thing that the Community Trust is doing that could be something to develop at a lower cost than the Academy.
Alfie and Harrison are fantastic assets for the club, I’m so pleased to see them doing so well. The professionalism and passion they speak with is admirable.
As academy costs aren’t considered in P & S/FFP I suppose it matters little to the finances but could be a distraction that could be detrimental to 1st team and other club business.
I'm not sure running an Under 8s team has much bearing on how rubbish the first team is!
0
Why didn’t QPR make more signings in January? podcast on 11:18 - Feb 3 with 1628 views
Why didn’t QPR make more signings in January? podcast on 09:33 - Feb 3 by SimonD
There are three options here as I see it.
1) Stay as we are.
2) Spend at least another £2m per season to attempt to reach Cat 1 status. This still doesn't ensure we can keep these kids, we'd just get better compensation for them. We also would need to spend that for at least one, and probably two, seasons before achieving that status (this would be outside of the scope of FFP)
3) Exit the EPPP scheme so the other clubs would have no right to pick off our talent. This, as I understand it, would mean forgoing the £5m+ the Premier League subsidise us by every season.
The options and amounts are all from memory, so if anyone has more up-to-date info I'd be glad to hear it.
Cat 2 Academy cost is around 1.5m per season, and 500k subsidy topped up by Prem League..thats from 2018-19 season, unless it’s materially changed since then? I don’t believe 5m is the right figure.
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Why didn’t QPR make more signings in January? podcast on 12:09 - Feb 3 with 1546 views
Why didn’t QPR make more signings in January? podcast on 08:39 - Feb 3 by 1JD
13 players divided by 750k = 57k per lost talent. 13 high-potential players lost is a HUGE talent drain.
Given these are some of the hottest talents in the country, it’s a paltry sum whatever way you flip it from my point of view. Adding them together to get 750k just makes it sound better.
But it’s still a measly 57k per player. Getting 57k on average for someone like the England under age keeper we lost to spurs is a real kick in the teeth. The more we can do to avoid *some* of these leaving, including Cat 1 status, the better. If we only managed to keep 1 player out of the 13, it’s potential worth multi-millions.
100% agree on Cat 1 status, 1JD. 100%.
"The opposite of love, after all, is not hate, but indifference."
Why didn’t QPR make more signings in January? podcast on 11:18 - Feb 3 by 1JD
Cat 2 Academy cost is around 1.5m per season, and 500k subsidy topped up by Prem League..thats from 2018-19 season, unless it’s materially changed since then? I don’t believe 5m is the right figure.
I know that our core solidarity payment was £4.5m in 19/20 with an additional £725k towards the academy.
I also know that the Premier League threatened to withhold solidarity payments until EPPP was signed off.
Maybe the actual position if we dropped out of EPPP would be a decent question for Lee Hoos.
2
Why didn’t QPR make more signings in January? podcast on 13:04 - Feb 3 with 1403 views
Why didn’t QPR make more signings in January? podcast on 12:36 - Feb 3 by SimonD
I know that our core solidarity payment was £4.5m in 19/20 with an additional £725k towards the academy.
I also know that the Premier League threatened to withhold solidarity payments until EPPP was signed off.
Maybe the actual position if we dropped out of EPPP would be a decent question for Lee Hoos.
Are you saying that if we pulled out of the EPPP academy programme, we then lose the entire premier league solidarity payment of 5 million?
The academy payment from EPPP is around 25% of the cost of the academy. It’s likely gone up from when it was around 500k in 2018 to the 700k mark you mention since they mandated a “Head of Coaching” role throughout the academy structure, which EPPP pays for.
(= Chris Ramsay updated job title, from the prior Technical Director job role he held)
1
Why didn’t QPR make more signings in January? podcast on 15:17 - Feb 3 with 1282 views
Why didn’t QPR make more signings in January? podcast on 23:18 - Feb 1 by A40Bosh
Thanks - was going to post this
Loving Jim Frayling. Insider realism but challenges LH approach to putting all money in to playing budget and not marketing to the local community
Just to clarify one thing- it is not Lee Hoos' money to spend. He is basically acting at the direction of the owners and the board. When he says they'd rather spend on playing budget than marketing, that's coming from the owners.
Attendance at games from a financial perspective is very overrated.
Lets say QPR sells out every game (ie, 18,439 seats), plus 2 cup games, at £30/ticket (18,439 x 25 x 30). That is equal to less than £14m in gate revenue. Put another way, selling one Eze would generate 30% more money for the club than selling out every ticket for the entire season
At the end of the day, the only way for clubs to stay sustainable is to develop and sell players through the academy or buy low and sell more expensive.
Discussing the absence of posters and ads on buses and in Westfield is laughably out of touch with modern marketing- does anyone think that brentford is getting fans in the gate b/c they have an ad on a high street in Chiswck, or because they play really good football in a new stadium in the Premier League?
Conversely, if we are led to believe that QPR has no marketing budget, it says a lot that the club is still reporting attendances in excess of 15,000 on weekend fixtures (not sure how reliable this number is). Spending additional money on buses isnt goign to make a difference, not least b/c that kind of advertising is ineffective, but because the delta b/w the tickets we're currently selling and our capacity in a sell-out is pretty small.
Look at our attendances in the last 20 years. Higher attendances correlate with either having a good team or being in the Premier League. People talk about how clubs like Leeds have such great fans, but I can recall many away fixtures at Elland road in front of half empty grounds when Leeds were crap. It wasnt b/c they didnt put up signs at the local Mcdonalds....
[Post edited 3 Feb 2023 15:40]
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Why didn’t QPR make more signings in January? podcast on 15:48 - Feb 3 with 1200 views
Why didn’t QPR make more signings in January? podcast on 15:35 - Feb 3 by qprd
Just to clarify one thing- it is not Lee Hoos' money to spend. He is basically acting at the direction of the owners and the board. When he says they'd rather spend on playing budget than marketing, that's coming from the owners.
Attendance at games from a financial perspective is very overrated.
Lets say QPR sells out every game (ie, 18,439 seats), plus 2 cup games, at £30/ticket (18,439 x 25 x 30). That is equal to less than £14m in gate revenue. Put another way, selling one Eze would generate 30% more money for the club than selling out every ticket for the entire season
At the end of the day, the only way for clubs to stay sustainable is to develop and sell players through the academy or buy low and sell more expensive.
Discussing the absence of posters and ads on buses and in Westfield is laughably out of touch with modern marketing- does anyone think that brentford is getting fans in the gate b/c they have an ad on a high street in Chiswck, or because they play really good football in a new stadium in the Premier League?
Conversely, if we are led to believe that QPR has no marketing budget, it says a lot that the club is still reporting attendances in excess of 15,000 on weekend fixtures (not sure how reliable this number is). Spending additional money on buses isnt goign to make a difference, not least b/c that kind of advertising is ineffective, but because the delta b/w the tickets we're currently selling and our capacity in a sell-out is pretty small.
Look at our attendances in the last 20 years. Higher attendances correlate with either having a good team or being in the Premier League. People talk about how clubs like Leeds have such great fans, but I can recall many away fixtures at Elland road in front of half empty grounds when Leeds were crap. It wasnt b/c they didnt put up signs at the local Mcdonalds....
[Post edited 3 Feb 2023 15:40]
Re home attendances this makes interesting reading.
Clearly Saturday 3pm kick offs are popular - funny that!
Why didn’t QPR make more signings in January? podcast on 15:35 - Feb 3 by qprd
Just to clarify one thing- it is not Lee Hoos' money to spend. He is basically acting at the direction of the owners and the board. When he says they'd rather spend on playing budget than marketing, that's coming from the owners.
Attendance at games from a financial perspective is very overrated.
Lets say QPR sells out every game (ie, 18,439 seats), plus 2 cup games, at £30/ticket (18,439 x 25 x 30). That is equal to less than £14m in gate revenue. Put another way, selling one Eze would generate 30% more money for the club than selling out every ticket for the entire season
At the end of the day, the only way for clubs to stay sustainable is to develop and sell players through the academy or buy low and sell more expensive.
Discussing the absence of posters and ads on buses and in Westfield is laughably out of touch with modern marketing- does anyone think that brentford is getting fans in the gate b/c they have an ad on a high street in Chiswck, or because they play really good football in a new stadium in the Premier League?
Conversely, if we are led to believe that QPR has no marketing budget, it says a lot that the club is still reporting attendances in excess of 15,000 on weekend fixtures (not sure how reliable this number is). Spending additional money on buses isnt goign to make a difference, not least b/c that kind of advertising is ineffective, but because the delta b/w the tickets we're currently selling and our capacity in a sell-out is pretty small.
Look at our attendances in the last 20 years. Higher attendances correlate with either having a good team or being in the Premier League. People talk about how clubs like Leeds have such great fans, but I can recall many away fixtures at Elland road in front of half empty grounds when Leeds were crap. It wasnt b/c they didnt put up signs at the local Mcdonalds....
[Post edited 3 Feb 2023 15:40]
Not saying it would make a difference to attendances but it would at least give us a presence around our local area a bit gimmicky but it would show that Shepherds Bush is a Rangers area and we exist!
Never forget a couple of years ago walking on the green and seeing a massive Chelsea billboard 🤮
Hoos has made no effort to try and get more fans in and just shrugs his shoulders . As I've said many times make lower school end safe standing and make it cheap for young people to create an atmosphere at both ends
0
Why didn’t QPR make more signings in January? podcast on 16:44 - Feb 3 with 1073 views
Why didn’t QPR make more signings in January? podcast on 15:35 - Feb 3 by qprd
Just to clarify one thing- it is not Lee Hoos' money to spend. He is basically acting at the direction of the owners and the board. When he says they'd rather spend on playing budget than marketing, that's coming from the owners.
Attendance at games from a financial perspective is very overrated.
Lets say QPR sells out every game (ie, 18,439 seats), plus 2 cup games, at £30/ticket (18,439 x 25 x 30). That is equal to less than £14m in gate revenue. Put another way, selling one Eze would generate 30% more money for the club than selling out every ticket for the entire season
At the end of the day, the only way for clubs to stay sustainable is to develop and sell players through the academy or buy low and sell more expensive.
Discussing the absence of posters and ads on buses and in Westfield is laughably out of touch with modern marketing- does anyone think that brentford is getting fans in the gate b/c they have an ad on a high street in Chiswck, or because they play really good football in a new stadium in the Premier League?
Conversely, if we are led to believe that QPR has no marketing budget, it says a lot that the club is still reporting attendances in excess of 15,000 on weekend fixtures (not sure how reliable this number is). Spending additional money on buses isnt goign to make a difference, not least b/c that kind of advertising is ineffective, but because the delta b/w the tickets we're currently selling and our capacity in a sell-out is pretty small.
Look at our attendances in the last 20 years. Higher attendances correlate with either having a good team or being in the Premier League. People talk about how clubs like Leeds have such great fans, but I can recall many away fixtures at Elland road in front of half empty grounds when Leeds were crap. It wasnt b/c they didnt put up signs at the local Mcdonalds....
[Post edited 3 Feb 2023 15:40]
"Look at our attendances in the last 20 years. Higher attendances correlate with either having a good team or being in the Premier League."
I did this. QPR were getting a higher average attendance in the third tier, often playing teams with away support in the lower hundreds when Jim Frayling was marketing the club than any of the past five years in the Championship, often playing teams with large away followings in the thousands.
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Why didn’t QPR make more signings in January? podcast on 16:48 - Feb 3 with 1058 views
Why didn’t QPR make more signings in January? podcast on 16:44 - Feb 3 by TK1
"Look at our attendances in the last 20 years. Higher attendances correlate with either having a good team or being in the Premier League."
I did this. QPR were getting a higher average attendance in the third tier, often playing teams with away support in the lower hundreds when Jim Frayling was marketing the club than any of the past five years in the Championship, often playing teams with large away followings in the thousands.
Winning games in the 3rd tier v losing games higher up.
1
Why didn’t QPR make more signings in January? podcast on 17:45 - Feb 3 with 981 views
Why didn’t QPR make more signings in January? podcast on 16:44 - Feb 3 by TK1
"Look at our attendances in the last 20 years. Higher attendances correlate with either having a good team or being in the Premier League."
I did this. QPR were getting a higher average attendance in the third tier, often playing teams with away support in the lower hundreds when Jim Frayling was marketing the club than any of the past five years in the Championship, often playing teams with large away followings in the thousands.
1. your statement isnt true. we're entitled to our opinions, but the numbers dont really lie here. the attendances in each of the last 10 championship seasons is higher than all but one L1 season (im excluding the 19/20 and 20/21 seasons where games were played behind closed doors)
2. the season in L1 where we did have higher attendances was the season QPR got auto promoted- which is exactly my point.... even in the L1 data set, the attendance improves as our position in the table improves
of course, individual seasons may have some variations due to totally external factors (economic, covid, etc)- this season will likely have lower attendances attendance than normal, all other things equal, b/c i presume we are playing more mid-week games to accommodate for the 5 week gap for the world gap.... but the pattern is obvious
its a nice and tidy narrative to say spending more on ads generates more attendance, and even tidier to attribute to one person... but its not borne out by the data
1
Why didn’t QPR make more signings in January? podcast on 18:17 - Feb 3 with 938 views
1. your statement isnt true. we're entitled to our opinions, but the numbers dont really lie here. the attendances in each of the last 10 championship seasons is higher than all but one L1 season (im excluding the 19/20 and 20/21 seasons where games were played behind closed doors)
2. the season in L1 where we did have higher attendances was the season QPR got auto promoted- which is exactly my point.... even in the L1 data set, the attendance improves as our position in the table improves
of course, individual seasons may have some variations due to totally external factors (economic, covid, etc)- this season will likely have lower attendances attendance than normal, all other things equal, b/c i presume we are playing more mid-week games to accommodate for the 5 week gap for the world gap.... but the pattern is obvious
its a nice and tidy narrative to say spending more on ads generates more attendance, and even tidier to attribute to one person... but its not borne out by the data
I think the point they were making is that in league 1 the crowds were predominantly Rangers fans with less away fans
Our average is higher but that's because the championship clubs take more to Loftus road so the attendance of home fans has gone down since our league 1 days
0
Why didn’t QPR make more signings in January? podcast on 20:50 - Feb 3 with 844 views
Why didn’t QPR make more signings in January? podcast on 15:35 - Feb 3 by qprd
Just to clarify one thing- it is not Lee Hoos' money to spend. He is basically acting at the direction of the owners and the board. When he says they'd rather spend on playing budget than marketing, that's coming from the owners.
Attendance at games from a financial perspective is very overrated.
Lets say QPR sells out every game (ie, 18,439 seats), plus 2 cup games, at £30/ticket (18,439 x 25 x 30). That is equal to less than £14m in gate revenue. Put another way, selling one Eze would generate 30% more money for the club than selling out every ticket for the entire season
At the end of the day, the only way for clubs to stay sustainable is to develop and sell players through the academy or buy low and sell more expensive.
Discussing the absence of posters and ads on buses and in Westfield is laughably out of touch with modern marketing- does anyone think that brentford is getting fans in the gate b/c they have an ad on a high street in Chiswck, or because they play really good football in a new stadium in the Premier League?
Conversely, if we are led to believe that QPR has no marketing budget, it says a lot that the club is still reporting attendances in excess of 15,000 on weekend fixtures (not sure how reliable this number is). Spending additional money on buses isnt goign to make a difference, not least b/c that kind of advertising is ineffective, but because the delta b/w the tickets we're currently selling and our capacity in a sell-out is pretty small.
Look at our attendances in the last 20 years. Higher attendances correlate with either having a good team or being in the Premier League. People talk about how clubs like Leeds have such great fans, but I can recall many away fixtures at Elland road in front of half empty grounds when Leeds were crap. It wasnt b/c they didnt put up signs at the local Mcdonalds....
[Post edited 3 Feb 2023 15:40]
Those figures are grossly optimistic. ST holders don't pay £30 per game. Then there are discounts for youngsters and OAPs.
It goes to show that attendances don't come close to covering running costs.
"Travel is fatal to prejudice, bigotry and narrow-mindedness, and many of our people need it sorely on these accounts. Broad, wholesome, charitable views of men and things cannot be acquired by vegetating in one little corner of the Earth all one's lifetime." (Mark Twain)
Find me on twitter @derbyhoop and now on Bluesky
0
Why didn’t QPR make more signings in January? podcast on 22:12 - Feb 3 with 770 views
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