| National League contracts on 11:55 - Mar 30 with 4941 views | SuddenLad |
As someone says in the article: "Welcome to the real world". |  |
| “It is easier to fool people, than to convince them that they have been fooled†|
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| National League contracts on 13:01 - Mar 30 with 4782 views | D_Alien |
Just a couple of thoughts, from a neutral perspective:
Would the change in contract terms possibly lead to a change in the way players challenge each other on the pitch, thus changing the fundamental nature of the game?
With players on protected salaries, so far we've not seen any (or very few) cases of one player taking another to court for ABH/GBH. That could change, if someone's income is going to be under threat due to a particular type of challenge. This is also relates to the first point |  |
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| National League contracts on 13:23 - Mar 30 with 4738 views | 442Dale |
| National League contracts on 11:55 - Mar 30 by SuddenLad |
As someone says in the article: "Welcome to the real world". |
And the full paragraph has it spot on:
“Some players who have highlighted their frustrations at the changes on social media have received responses along the lines of “welcome to the real world”. Well, let’s have that conversation. There shouldn’t be a race to the bottom on workers’ rights. We should want to push forward standards and conditions for everyone — whatever they do for a living.”
Would football then have to become stricter on health and safety to protect injuries and loss of earnings? Players saying they won’t defend corners unless risk assessed for increased risk of concussions?
It’s ridiculous, no matter what anyone thinks of players’ wages. |  |
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| National League contracts on 15:19 - Mar 30 with 4531 views | foreverhopefulDale |
| National League contracts on 11:55 - Mar 30 by SuddenLad |
As someone says in the article: "Welcome to the real world". |
But it's not the real world. Very few of us go to work with a real threat of being injured every time we go to work. Those that do, like the police, nurses etc have got proper sick pay schemes in place for occasions that they do receive injuries at work. Every single time a player goes to work, they are in danger of getting injured. I accept footballers earn very good money, but I am not sure that National League players can afford to be unpaid for injuries that are a common part of the job they do. |  |
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| National League contracts on 16:12 - Mar 30 with 4379 views | Yorkshire_Dale |
They are paid well enough to take out insurance cover on themselves....many workers on zero hours contracts aint so lucky,I suspect? |  | | |
| National League contracts on 16:15 - Mar 30 with 4368 views | SuddenLad |
| National League contracts on 15:19 - Mar 30 by foreverhopefulDale |
But it's not the real world. Very few of us go to work with a real threat of being injured every time we go to work. Those that do, like the police, nurses etc have got proper sick pay schemes in place for occasions that they do receive injuries at work. Every single time a player goes to work, they are in danger of getting injured. I accept footballers earn very good money, but I am not sure that National League players can afford to be unpaid for injuries that are a common part of the job they do. |
Police officers who are on sick leave are subjected to a reduction in wages when they have been absent from duty. My mate was absent from his Police duties following a heart attack and his salary was reduced by 50% , though he could claim DWP payments like any other worker.
Receiving payouts from the criminal injuries compensation board is a completely different scenario, relating to injuries sustained as a result of a criminal act. | |
| “It is easier to fool people, than to convince them that they have been fooled†|
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| National League contracts on 16:21 - Mar 30 with 4361 views | KenBoon |
| National League contracts on 16:12 - Mar 30 by Yorkshire_Dale |
They are paid well enough to take out insurance cover on themselves....many workers on zero hours contracts aint so lucky,I suspect? |
Maybe Wrexham and a couple of other teams pay big but this affects other teams too. I personally would be ashamed if we ever failed to look after a player who got injured whilst representing Rochdale AFC. |  | | |
| National League contracts on 16:48 - Mar 30 with 4281 views | D_Alien |
| National League contracts on 16:21 - Mar 30 by KenBoon |
Maybe Wrexham and a couple of other teams pay big but this affects other teams too. I personally would be ashamed if we ever failed to look after a player who got injured whilst representing Rochdale AFC. |
Well-meaning words, but there are circumstances i couldn't agree with that
For instance, one of ours making a reckless, limb-threatening challenge resulting in a red card as well as injuring himself
[Post edited 30 Mar 2023 16:49]
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| National League contracts on 16:56 - Mar 30 with 4253 views | nordenblue |
| National League contracts on 16:12 - Mar 30 by Yorkshire_Dale |
They are paid well enough to take out insurance cover on themselves....many workers on zero hours contracts aint so lucky,I suspect? |
Like lots of rugby league players do, pay a relatively tiny premium for their own insurance. | | | |
| National League contracts on 17:47 - Mar 30 with 4135 views | foreverhopefulDale |
| National League contracts on 16:56 - Mar 30 by nordenblue |
Like lots of rugby league players do, pay a relatively tiny premium for their own insurance. |
I never realised such insurance existed at a low price. Maybe the Clubs could get it at lower rate for all their players. | |
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| National League contracts on 17:50 - Mar 30 with 4128 views | 442Dale |
| National League contracts on 16:12 - Mar 30 by Yorkshire_Dale |
They are paid well enough to take out insurance cover on themselves....many workers on zero hours contracts aint so lucky,I suspect? |
What is the average wage of a non-league player and how much is the insurance?
Yet to hear explanations on how the contracts will impact club’s health and safety risk assessments, thus increasing their own cost.
What if a player is told by his manager to play with an injury, then is out for months as a result? | |
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| National League contracts on 17:53 - Mar 30 with 4121 views | SuddenLad |
| National League contracts on 17:50 - Mar 30 by 442Dale |
What is the average wage of a non-league player and how much is the insurance?
Yet to hear explanations on how the contracts will impact club’s health and safety risk assessments, thus increasing their own cost.
What if a player is told by his manager to play with an injury, then is out for months as a result? |
Surely, the club doctor would be crucial to any of these decisions. He can declare the player fit or unfit to play. The decision ultimately lies with the player. As do the consequences if he plays against medical advice. | |
| “It is easier to fool people, than to convince them that they have been fooled†|
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| National League contracts on 18:14 - Mar 30 with 4072 views | 442Dale |
| National League contracts on 17:53 - Mar 30 by SuddenLad |
Surely, the club doctor would be crucial to any of these decisions. He can declare the player fit or unfit to play. The decision ultimately lies with the player. As do the consequences if he plays against medical advice. |
So a player plays as they do now with a minor injury after a doctor says it’s ok, but doesn’t put 100% in because he doesn’t want to fall victim of such a ridiculous idea where they end up losing money. I’m sure fans will be fine with that.
It really isn’t the real world unless there are real world procedures brought into the risk assessments and subsequent mention of these in contracts.
Using examples of other sectors is fine, but only when considering they are specifically trained to avoid injury. Using the example above, will players be trained to defend corners in a safe manner, or will the club offer to pay for insurance should they become injured and look to take action against their employer for not doing so?
Yes, I’m aware insurance exists at lower levels/grassroots for those who work in other jobs as well, and that is indeed the player’s choice to sign up to it.
But for those where football is their only job, will the infrastructure be in place to protect them when injuries occur? Until there are specific answers to the above, the idea remains a nonsense. | |
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| National League contracts on 18:38 - Mar 30 with 4020 views | nordenblue |
| National League contracts on 18:14 - Mar 30 by 442Dale |
So a player plays as they do now with a minor injury after a doctor says it’s ok, but doesn’t put 100% in because he doesn’t want to fall victim of such a ridiculous idea where they end up losing money. I’m sure fans will be fine with that.
It really isn’t the real world unless there are real world procedures brought into the risk assessments and subsequent mention of these in contracts.
Using examples of other sectors is fine, but only when considering they are specifically trained to avoid injury. Using the example above, will players be trained to defend corners in a safe manner, or will the club offer to pay for insurance should they become injured and look to take action against their employer for not doing so?
Yes, I’m aware insurance exists at lower levels/grassroots for those who work in other jobs as well, and that is indeed the player’s choice to sign up to it.
But for those where football is their only job, will the infrastructure be in place to protect them when injuries occur? Until there are specific answers to the above, the idea remains a nonsense. |
Not sure they ask rugby players to be "specifically trained to avoid injury" many also have other jobs as well as playing rugby so it's an even bigger risk attached to getting injured playing for them.
As said it doesn't stop rugby league players in a much physically harder sport giving 110% commitment.
Many footballers have their own cover now either way I'm lead to believe., for pennies compared to what they earn [Post edited 30 Mar 2023 18:43]
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| National League contracts on 19:03 - Mar 30 with 3965 views | 442Dale |
| National League contracts on 18:38 - Mar 30 by nordenblue |
Not sure they ask rugby players to be "specifically trained to avoid injury" many also have other jobs as well as playing rugby so it's an even bigger risk attached to getting injured playing for them.
As said it doesn't stop rugby league players in a much physically harder sport giving 110% commitment.
Many footballers have their own cover now either way I'm lead to believe., for pennies compared to what they earn [Post edited 30 Mar 2023 18:43]
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That’s why I said about those players who don’t have other jobs.
Do professional rugby players on full time contracts face a reduction in wages when injured and, if so, what is the insurance they have against this? Is it built into their contracts and paid by the club? | |
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| National League contracts on 20:21 - Mar 30 with 3848 views | 49thseason |
Apparently the PFA only has some sort of insurance scheme for non -league players who joined whilst in the Prem or EFL but does not cover Non-League players who have never played at a higher level. All of which seems a bit odd for a Trade Union...
However when you see the state of 80 -90% of football club finances outside the Premiership its easy to see that clubs might not want to fully support injured players, a scandalous state of affairs. Financially , vast tracts of football are held together by rich individuals propping up loss making entities, I can't bring myself to call them businesses.
Man U Borrowings now stand at £742M- £50m loss in the last 6 months
Aston Villa Shares issue for another £20m
Fleetwood 1.65m loss last season, owner now in for over £25m
Morecambe, no players paid this month, winding up order pending against their owners
Darlington lost £183K last season
And these are just a few of the recent annual returns
To be fair, Cambridge United have made a profit and have £5m in the bank and Brentford made £30m last season but they are rare examples. Until football clubs fix the roof , before winter and start to run sustainably, players and supporters will get a worse and worse deal. [Post edited 30 Mar 2023 20:23]
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| National League contracts on 20:24 - Mar 30 with 3821 views | 49thseason |
Kieran Maguire
@KieranMaguire
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38m
Hull City lost almost £8m in 21/22 but player sales and a £20m loan write off by the former owners turned this into a £14m profit | | | |
| National League contracts on 21:15 - Mar 30 with 3691 views | Plattyswrinklynuts |
Perhaps the EFL & national league could introduce a compulsory insurance scheme where the club & insurer could go 50 / 50 on injury payments? Players wouldn’t lose out & clubs would save 50% on salaries. |  | | |
| National League contracts on 00:06 - Mar 31 with 3487 views | nordenblue |
| National League contracts on 19:03 - Mar 30 by 442Dale |
That’s why I said about those players who don’t have other jobs.
Do professional rugby players on full time contracts face a reduction in wages when injured and, if so, what is the insurance they have against this? Is it built into their contracts and paid by the club? |
Football clubs can/do also take out insurance policies in relation to potential player injuries too.
I can't answer specifics, it's been around a long time so guessing they've got pretty every eventuality covered by now.
From my understanding the clubs take out insurance and the price for players to take out their own policy I'm reliably informed "for what it costs it's not worth not having it" | | | |
| National League contracts on 00:49 - Mar 31 with 3452 views | fermin |
| National League contracts on 20:21 - Mar 30 by 49thseason |
Apparently the PFA only has some sort of insurance scheme for non -league players who joined whilst in the Prem or EFL but does not cover Non-League players who have never played at a higher level. All of which seems a bit odd for a Trade Union...
However when you see the state of 80 -90% of football club finances outside the Premiership its easy to see that clubs might not want to fully support injured players, a scandalous state of affairs. Financially , vast tracts of football are held together by rich individuals propping up loss making entities, I can't bring myself to call them businesses.
Man U Borrowings now stand at £742M- £50m loss in the last 6 months
Aston Villa Shares issue for another £20m
Fleetwood 1.65m loss last season, owner now in for over £25m
Morecambe, no players paid this month, winding up order pending against their owners
Darlington lost £183K last season
And these are just a few of the recent annual returns
To be fair, Cambridge United have made a profit and have £5m in the bank and Brentford made £30m last season but they are rare examples. Until football clubs fix the roof , before winter and start to run sustainably, players and supporters will get a worse and worse deal. [Post edited 30 Mar 2023 20:23]
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A quick look at Cambridge suggests they are also propped up by a rich individual, so not sure they are a good example.
Kidderminster in NLN are professional on crowds of about 2,000. What are their finances like? I do not know what their ownership structure is.
Cheltenham seem to be doing well based on this https://www.gloucestershirelive.co.uk/sport/football/football-news/cheltenham-to |  | | |
| National League contracts on 08:18 - Mar 31 with 3328 views | electricblue |
| National League contracts on 00:49 - Mar 31 by fermin |
A quick look at Cambridge suggests they are also propped up by a rich individual, so not sure they are a good example.
Kidderminster in NLN are professional on crowds of about 2,000. What are their finances like? I do not know what their ownership structure is.
Cheltenham seem to be doing well based on this https://www.gloucestershirelive.co.uk/sport/football/football-news/cheltenham-to |
Cheltenham only made a profit due to player sales according to the article...... |  |
| My all time favourite Dale player Mr Lyndon Symmonds |
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| National League contracts on 10:38 - Mar 31 with 3256 views | Thacks_Rabbits |
Getting insurance for professional footballers is extremely difficult, most insurers will not take them on and even if you can get cover it’s limited to 2/3 of salary (although that’s tax free, but you can’t exceed normal earnings). So for example if you are a architect on 60k a year (low risk profession) to cover £40 k a year (statutory sick not included as that’s on top) might cost you £60 a month which would say cover you to 65. The same cover for a mechanic might be £300 a month. Most insurers have professional sportsman as an exclusion due to risk. I’m sure the PFA will have specialist advice available as they deal with player pensions so I’m reality it’s no different for them than it is for everyone else.
There is no obligation for the club to do this though, we could offer full pay while injured if we want and use this as a selling point. It’s a storm in a tea cup really and will have no real beating on anything. It’s just another thing to consider for players to consider. |  |
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| National League contracts on 14:59 - Mar 31 with 3073 views | 49thseason |
Kieran Maguire
@KieranMaguire
Oxford United lost over £4 million in 21/22 despite a return from lockdown â¬†ï¸ income. Wages were £108 for every £100 of revenue
Oxford had some cash in the bank but total losses over the years now exceed £25 million
Oxford bought players for £383k and had sales of £1.8m. Without those player sales annual losses would have been £6 million.
Oxford owe the owners over £20 million and that’s despite the owners effectively writing off £1.5m in the year by converting into shares. | | | |
| National League contracts on 15:58 - Mar 31 with 3016 views | watford_dale |
| National League contracts on 20:21 - Mar 30 by 49thseason |
Apparently the PFA only has some sort of insurance scheme for non -league players who joined whilst in the Prem or EFL but does not cover Non-League players who have never played at a higher level. All of which seems a bit odd for a Trade Union...
However when you see the state of 80 -90% of football club finances outside the Premiership its easy to see that clubs might not want to fully support injured players, a scandalous state of affairs. Financially , vast tracts of football are held together by rich individuals propping up loss making entities, I can't bring myself to call them businesses.
Man U Borrowings now stand at £742M- £50m loss in the last 6 months
Aston Villa Shares issue for another £20m
Fleetwood 1.65m loss last season, owner now in for over £25m
Morecambe, no players paid this month, winding up order pending against their owners
Darlington lost £183K last season
And these are just a few of the recent annual returns
To be fair, Cambridge United have made a profit and have £5m in the bank and Brentford made £30m last season but they are rare examples. Until football clubs fix the roof , before winter and start to run sustainably, players and supporters will get a worse and worse deal. [Post edited 30 Mar 2023 20:23]
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Man U debt currently stands at £968m, comprising:
Initial debt $650m but the exchange rate whacked another £60m on top, they have drawn down £206m of a £300m credit agreement and owe £277m in transfer fees.
All serviceable and disappears when new ownership walks through the door. | | | |
| National League contracts on 16:02 - Mar 31 with 3008 views | 49thseason |
Kieran Maguire
@KieranMaguire
Wrexham lost £56,000 a week in 2021/22, but had cash in the bank at end of season due to share issues and owner loans from
@VancityReynolds
and
@RMcElhenney
Wrexham bought players for £1.175m in 21/22, a record for the National League
Wrexham revenue just short of £6m in 21/22, highest in NL and 90% of League Two (and some clubs in L1)
Wrexham owed the owners £3.7m at end of 21/22. Interest at 3% over base rate, so currently 7.25%, is being charged | | | |
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