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I believe it’s two years this month since Christian Nourry took over the helm at QPR. I thought it would make an interesting midweek thread on what the thoughts were of progress so far. Personally I am in the cup is half full camp and believe we have turned the ship and are now heading in the right direction below are some main pointers from me:
Positives
Squad - Recruitment has improved and we now have the best squad we have had for years and it seems a good blend of youth and experience and looks a much happier dressing room. For the first time in years we have players who are now worth looking at for teams higher up the food chain. We are not (yet) in a relegation battle and still with an outside chance of the play offs.
Manager - Maybe divides opinion but I’m still happy with the progress we are making under Julien Stephan who was a thoughtful choice and the same profile to continue the work done by Marti.
Academy - Plans to upgrade to Cat 1. Seems to be a positive move although only time will tell on this one.
School End - Removal of away fans from lower tier and having our own fans there seems to have certainly helped improve our home form.
Negatives
Better communication with fans. Good to see we are now communicating better with injuries but maybe more sessions with fan groups.
Performance team - This does need to improve the overall condition of our players compared to other clubs does by the naked eye seems very poor not just the injuries but the overall fitness of the team.
Pitch - God knows what happened there, it would be good if the club could let us know what the problem was and what is being done to fix it.
Finally a big shout out to our owners who continue to write the cheques to keep the lights on. Not only that but then converting the debt to shares so it is not shown on the balance sheet as club debt.
So for me this is still very much work in progress but we are in a much better position now than we were two years ago.
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Christian Nourry - Two Year Anniversary on 09:18 - Jan 29 with 686 views
I thought I'd look up where QPR were a decade ago.
In 2016, 18 months after LF took over as DOF, QPR finished 12th. Exactly where we are now. Our squad was still far too old and laden down with the last of the PL refugees, but it had a lot of promising youth knocking on the door - Eze, Manning, Lumley, Shopido, Furlong, with Chair about to join: they'd beat a five-a-side of our current hopefuls - instead of Madsen, we had Luongo, a talented 8 who didn't score enough, two new players, Cherry and Polter, hit double figures, and so on...
So, a decade later, we're pretty much exactly where we were. The high water point of the Ferdinand years was five years ago, coming 9th. After those five years, he should've gone. The concrete achievements of the Ferdinand/Hoos years are the training ground, the safe standing which has reinvigorated the ground, and riding out the FFP fine without being relegated. Plus the developing of a youth product that produced the money Eze generated. All those pale next to a play-off season in the stats books, but are probably bigger for the soul of the club.
All of which is a long-winded way of saying, we can't judge Nourry for a couple of years, as he's achieved nothing out of the ordinary yet. He is par for the course. See how the club and books look in January 2028.
4
Christian Nourry - Two Year Anniversary on 09:47 - Jan 29 with 568 views
Christian Nourry - Two Year Anniversary on 09:33 - Jan 29 by TK1
I thought I'd look up where QPR were a decade ago.
In 2016, 18 months after LF took over as DOF, QPR finished 12th. Exactly where we are now. Our squad was still far too old and laden down with the last of the PL refugees, but it had a lot of promising youth knocking on the door - Eze, Manning, Lumley, Shopido, Furlong, with Chair about to join: they'd beat a five-a-side of our current hopefuls - instead of Madsen, we had Luongo, a talented 8 who didn't score enough, two new players, Cherry and Polter, hit double figures, and so on...
So, a decade later, we're pretty much exactly where we were. The high water point of the Ferdinand years was five years ago, coming 9th. After those five years, he should've gone. The concrete achievements of the Ferdinand/Hoos years are the training ground, the safe standing which has reinvigorated the ground, and riding out the FFP fine without being relegated. Plus the developing of a youth product that produced the money Eze generated. All those pale next to a play-off season in the stats books, but are probably bigger for the soul of the club.
All of which is a long-winded way of saying, we can't judge Nourry for a couple of years, as he's achieved nothing out of the ordinary yet. He is par for the course. See how the club and books look in January 2028.
Yep ten years of mediocrity.
Only high point was under Warburton where the play offs looked a possibility - but then we pushed the boat out on players and it all went downhill. Losing umpteen goalkeepers to injury didn't help either.
Christian Nourry - Two Year Anniversary on 09:33 - Jan 29 by TK1
I thought I'd look up where QPR were a decade ago.
In 2016, 18 months after LF took over as DOF, QPR finished 12th. Exactly where we are now. Our squad was still far too old and laden down with the last of the PL refugees, but it had a lot of promising youth knocking on the door - Eze, Manning, Lumley, Shopido, Furlong, with Chair about to join: they'd beat a five-a-side of our current hopefuls - instead of Madsen, we had Luongo, a talented 8 who didn't score enough, two new players, Cherry and Polter, hit double figures, and so on...
So, a decade later, we're pretty much exactly where we were. The high water point of the Ferdinand years was five years ago, coming 9th. After those five years, he should've gone. The concrete achievements of the Ferdinand/Hoos years are the training ground, the safe standing which has reinvigorated the ground, and riding out the FFP fine without being relegated. Plus the developing of a youth product that produced the money Eze generated. All those pale next to a play-off season in the stats books, but are probably bigger for the soul of the club.
All of which is a long-winded way of saying, we can't judge Nourry for a couple of years, as he's achieved nothing out of the ordinary yet. He is par for the course. See how the club and books look in January 2028.
Important context though. Those first 4 years of Les and Hoos involved them taking an annual wage bill from £70m to £17m in order to meet FFP, which was a necessary to avoid a relegation determining points deduction after the previous FFP breach (Redknapp) which landed us that £40m fine (most in sports’ history, etc, etc).
They spent some money on transfer fees here and there (Conor Washington was a £4m flop). But they never spent £25m over 18 months! And they didn’t have Eze money coming in, in those first 4 years, like they did later and the club has had more recently. Eze was sold in the summer of 2020. We’d had 5 years back in the Champ before Eze was sold.
My point is, I’m not sure it’s a fair like for like comparison. I think we *should* be doing better than we achieved in those first few years.
A fairer comparison IMO is the Warburton gamble year (we actually finished 11th on 66 points having been top in Jan) and the year before (20-21 - COVID disrupted year) when we finished 9th on 68 points. In the 21-22 season we lost £20+m on FFP that year through splashing the cash on salaries without selling anyone (making permanent those loans). In the 20-21 season we invested some of the money we made from the Eze sale on players (Dykes, Bonne). So, in those two seasons we spent money. We invested into the squad, and we had forwards we’d spent money on.
That, for me, is the best comparison to make.
2015-16 through to 2017-18 was effectively managed decline of the first team in order to meet FFP and not get a points deduction through to League One. Our squad was poor in that 2017-18 season (JFH then Holloway). 2018-19 was that weird McClaren year when we had decent young players coming through but he alienated them (BOS, Manning). We started terribly (7-1 loss to WBA), then went on a great run to the edge of the play offs, then fell away to finish 19th with only 51 points. The 2019-20 season was Warburton’s first, the year Eze was at his best, and actually that said was decent without us having spent loads of money. You had Hugill and Wells up top (on loans) and Eze, BOS, Chair behind them. The squad depth wasn’t really there but the first team was decent. The we sold Eze invested in the squad and had those two Warburton season’s I mentioned above.
Personally, I think the Nourry years are most similar to those two Warburton years, not the early Ferdinand years when the goals, challenges, and ability to spend were all very different.
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Christian Nourry - Two Year Anniversary on 10:48 - Jan 29 with 455 views
Christian Nourry - Two Year Anniversary on 09:33 - Jan 29 by TK1
I thought I'd look up where QPR were a decade ago.
In 2016, 18 months after LF took over as DOF, QPR finished 12th. Exactly where we are now. Our squad was still far too old and laden down with the last of the PL refugees, but it had a lot of promising youth knocking on the door - Eze, Manning, Lumley, Shopido, Furlong, with Chair about to join: they'd beat a five-a-side of our current hopefuls - instead of Madsen, we had Luongo, a talented 8 who didn't score enough, two new players, Cherry and Polter, hit double figures, and so on...
So, a decade later, we're pretty much exactly where we were. The high water point of the Ferdinand years was five years ago, coming 9th. After those five years, he should've gone. The concrete achievements of the Ferdinand/Hoos years are the training ground, the safe standing which has reinvigorated the ground, and riding out the FFP fine without being relegated. Plus the developing of a youth product that produced the money Eze generated. All those pale next to a play-off season in the stats books, but are probably bigger for the soul of the club.
All of which is a long-winded way of saying, we can't judge Nourry for a couple of years, as he's achieved nothing out of the ordinary yet. He is par for the course. See how the club and books look in January 2028.
I think the key difference between the end of that season when we finished 9th and today is the age of the squad. The squad today is much younger and under longer contracts. We lost BOS mid season. But as you say we can’t judge him yet because we could end up bottom half and the likely first team below for next season, could be rubbish. End of 2026/27 season is time to judge.
New GK Mbengue, Dunne, Edwards, New Left back Madsen, Varane Poku/Dembele, Burrell, Saito/Chair Kone
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Christian Nourry - Two Year Anniversary on 10:57 - Jan 29 with 441 views
Christian Nourry - Two Year Anniversary on 10:48 - Jan 29 by JamesB1979
I think the key difference between the end of that season when we finished 9th and today is the age of the squad. The squad today is much younger and under longer contracts. We lost BOS mid season. But as you say we can’t judge him yet because we could end up bottom half and the likely first team below for next season, could be rubbish. End of 2026/27 season is time to judge.
New GK Mbengue, Dunne, Edwards, New Left back Madsen, Varane Poku/Dembele, Burrell, Saito/Chair Kone
thing is with the project being buying cheap and selling big out of that group of players a few should be off in the summer
Varanne for sure
possibles Madsen Burrell Dunne
probables dembele
then its back to buidling again for next season and hoping to find some rough diamonds , this is the future for us obv , not seen enough of th players broight in for dev swaud to say would any of them be ready for the step up next season
Christian Nourry - Two Year Anniversary on 10:57 - Jan 29 by wombat
thing is with the project being buying cheap and selling big out of that group of players a few should be off in the summer
Varanne for sure
possibles Madsen Burrell Dunne
probables dembele
then its back to buidling again for next season and hoping to find some rough diamonds , this is the future for us obv , not seen enough of th players broight in for dev swaud to say would any of them be ready for the step up next season
If we sell Varane and co for a few quid, then that’s a good summer. Unfortunately that’s where we are as a club. But the amount we can spend should increase, so we should get better (or more ready) players in, like Edwards.
Also if we sell Varane, we still have Madsen, Hayden, Field, Morgan If we sell Burrell, we have Kone, Kolli and Obikwu.
The squad should gradually improve.
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Christian Nourry - Two Year Anniversary on 11:13 - Jan 29 with 403 views
Christian Nourry - Two Year Anniversary on 10:18 - Jan 29 by Hunterhoop
Important context though. Those first 4 years of Les and Hoos involved them taking an annual wage bill from £70m to £17m in order to meet FFP, which was a necessary to avoid a relegation determining points deduction after the previous FFP breach (Redknapp) which landed us that £40m fine (most in sports’ history, etc, etc).
They spent some money on transfer fees here and there (Conor Washington was a £4m flop). But they never spent £25m over 18 months! And they didn’t have Eze money coming in, in those first 4 years, like they did later and the club has had more recently. Eze was sold in the summer of 2020. We’d had 5 years back in the Champ before Eze was sold.
My point is, I’m not sure it’s a fair like for like comparison. I think we *should* be doing better than we achieved in those first few years.
A fairer comparison IMO is the Warburton gamble year (we actually finished 11th on 66 points having been top in Jan) and the year before (20-21 - COVID disrupted year) when we finished 9th on 68 points. In the 21-22 season we lost £20+m on FFP that year through splashing the cash on salaries without selling anyone (making permanent those loans). In the 20-21 season we invested some of the money we made from the Eze sale on players (Dykes, Bonne). So, in those two seasons we spent money. We invested into the squad, and we had forwards we’d spent money on.
That, for me, is the best comparison to make.
2015-16 through to 2017-18 was effectively managed decline of the first team in order to meet FFP and not get a points deduction through to League One. Our squad was poor in that 2017-18 season (JFH then Holloway). 2018-19 was that weird McClaren year when we had decent young players coming through but he alienated them (BOS, Manning). We started terribly (7-1 loss to WBA), then went on a great run to the edge of the play offs, then fell away to finish 19th with only 51 points. The 2019-20 season was Warburton’s first, the year Eze was at his best, and actually that said was decent without us having spent loads of money. You had Hugill and Wells up top (on loans) and Eze, BOS, Chair behind them. The squad depth wasn’t really there but the first team was decent. The we sold Eze invested in the squad and had those two Warburton season’s I mentioned above.
Personally, I think the Nourry years are most similar to those two Warburton years, not the early Ferdinand years when the goals, challenges, and ability to spend were all very different.
I agree with all of that about the context of the time (I was trying to be brief!). I think those first four, five LF years are massively undervalued, especially on social media where he's routinely characterised as a buffoon and Nourry as a league-on-strings genius. Neither remotely true.
To have left the club in the Championship, debt down to manageable level, new training ground and having produced Eze, Chair, Dieng etc is a decent legacy he should be proud of. Stayed a year too long, I think.
I don't think we can really compare or judge Nourry until he's done four or five years. We may be in ruins then, of course, but as you say he's spent a lot on young players so will take a few seasons to come out in the wash. It's in the balance. Has to sell one or two this year, though.
I do think it's amusing that in 2016 we were 12th and in 2026 we are 12th. After all the comings and goings, all the turmoil, the spin and so forth QPR are essentially a club that lives somewhere between 17th and 10th in England's second tier. That's alright with me, which I know is not a universal view.
Although I am well aware as an alleged grown-up that the model of flogging players as soon as they come into some sort of form is a wise one, it isn't half a depressing thought that as soon as say Burrell becomes a top Championship striker we would be gleefully cashing in. I don't trust us to keep replacing with better, to be honest, which makes me think our chances of ever doing anything in the long-run just diminish.
Can someone reassure me that this model which presumably Brentford / Brighton did to get promoted - is that what they actually did on their way up? Genuinely? Or was it more that they had one bonanza gem (eg Watkins) that they cashed in to such a huge extent?
Just seems such a long and precarious road, but then again every other road we have tried has failed dismally so I guess it has to be the approach.
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Christian Nourry - Two Year Anniversary on 11:35 - Jan 29 with 347 views
Christian Nourry - Two Year Anniversary on 11:29 - Jan 29 by GaryBannister86
Although I am well aware as an alleged grown-up that the model of flogging players as soon as they come into some sort of form is a wise one, it isn't half a depressing thought that as soon as say Burrell becomes a top Championship striker we would be gleefully cashing in. I don't trust us to keep replacing with better, to be honest, which makes me think our chances of ever doing anything in the long-run just diminish.
Can someone reassure me that this model which presumably Brentford / Brighton did to get promoted - is that what they actually did on their way up? Genuinely? Or was it more that they had one bonanza gem (eg Watkins) that they cashed in to such a huge extent?
Just seems such a long and precarious road, but then again every other road we have tried has failed dismally so I guess it has to be the approach.
Well I think the idea is that you buy players for 1m and sell them for 5m+. So, if you do that you should have more money to spend which means you can buy better (and more ready) players and more of them. And so, your squad should still continue to improve. Obviously you sell an Eze, your 1st team will go down in levels but we have no one like that currently.
1
Christian Nourry - Two Year Anniversary on 11:37 - Jan 29 with 343 views
Christian Nourry - Two Year Anniversary on 11:13 - Jan 29 by TK1
I agree with all of that about the context of the time (I was trying to be brief!). I think those first four, five LF years are massively undervalued, especially on social media where he's routinely characterised as a buffoon and Nourry as a league-on-strings genius. Neither remotely true.
To have left the club in the Championship, debt down to manageable level, new training ground and having produced Eze, Chair, Dieng etc is a decent legacy he should be proud of. Stayed a year too long, I think.
I don't think we can really compare or judge Nourry until he's done four or five years. We may be in ruins then, of course, but as you say he's spent a lot on young players so will take a few seasons to come out in the wash. It's in the balance. Has to sell one or two this year, though.
I do think it's amusing that in 2016 we were 12th and in 2026 we are 12th. After all the comings and goings, all the turmoil, the spin and so forth QPR are essentially a club that lives somewhere between 17th and 10th in England's second tier. That's alright with me, which I know is not a universal view.
Yeah, agree with you on all of that.
A decade on and in the same position, although we should be looking up not down now, whereas ten years ago due to the challenges discussed, it did feel like we had to look down.
I also think it’s interesting going back to the 19-20, 20-21, and 21-22 seasons, under Warburton (with Les as DOF and Hoos as CEO), when we finished 13th, 9th and 11th. Again, are we any further on, on the pitch? I don’t think we should be doing worse this year and next. Personally think we should be around that level this year as a minimum, and actually pushing higher next year. Let’s see.
1
Christian Nourry - Two Year Anniversary on 11:43 - Jan 29 with 324 views
Christian Nourry - Two Year Anniversary on 11:29 - Jan 29 by GaryBannister86
Although I am well aware as an alleged grown-up that the model of flogging players as soon as they come into some sort of form is a wise one, it isn't half a depressing thought that as soon as say Burrell becomes a top Championship striker we would be gleefully cashing in. I don't trust us to keep replacing with better, to be honest, which makes me think our chances of ever doing anything in the long-run just diminish.
Can someone reassure me that this model which presumably Brentford / Brighton did to get promoted - is that what they actually did on their way up? Genuinely? Or was it more that they had one bonanza gem (eg Watkins) that they cashed in to such a huge extent?
Just seems such a long and precarious road, but then again every other road we have tried has failed dismally so I guess it has to be the approach.
It is what Brentford did. Think it was Maupay they sold for big money, replaced with Watkins, replaced with Toney (and promotion). Might have the order wrong. And there might have been someone before Maupay. They also did similar with centre haves, I believe.
Their access to data, and especially Brighton’s through Tony Bloom’s betting set up, is miles ahead of anyone else’s, including us. That’s where the risk comes in.
And, as I keep saying, whether it’s right or depressing, by taking an amortisation approach to transfer fees spent, it is a MUST that you sell players for decent money every year. No other options.
2
Christian Nourry - Two Year Anniversary on 11:47 - Jan 29 with 312 views
Christian Nourry - Two Year Anniversary on 11:43 - Jan 29 by Hunterhoop
It is what Brentford did. Think it was Maupay they sold for big money, replaced with Watkins, replaced with Toney (and promotion). Might have the order wrong. And there might have been someone before Maupay. They also did similar with centre haves, I believe.
Their access to data, and especially Brighton’s through Tony Bloom’s betting set up, is miles ahead of anyone else’s, including us. That’s where the risk comes in.
And, as I keep saying, whether it’s right or depressing, by taking an amortisation approach to transfer fees spent, it is a MUST that you sell players for decent money every year. No other options.
Gotcha - thanks all.
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Christian Nourry - Two Year Anniversary on 12:06 - Jan 29 with 270 views
Christian Nourry - Two Year Anniversary on 11:43 - Jan 29 by Hunterhoop
It is what Brentford did. Think it was Maupay they sold for big money, replaced with Watkins, replaced with Toney (and promotion). Might have the order wrong. And there might have been someone before Maupay. They also did similar with centre haves, I believe.
Their access to data, and especially Brighton’s through Tony Bloom’s betting set up, is miles ahead of anyone else’s, including us. That’s where the risk comes in.
And, as I keep saying, whether it’s right or depressing, by taking an amortisation approach to transfer fees spent, it is a MUST that you sell players for decent money every year. No other options.
Scott Hogan as well in the striker good chain.
0
Christian Nourry - Two Year Anniversary on 12:07 - Jan 29 with 270 views
Christian Nourry - Two Year Anniversary on 11:29 - Jan 29 by GaryBannister86
Although I am well aware as an alleged grown-up that the model of flogging players as soon as they come into some sort of form is a wise one, it isn't half a depressing thought that as soon as say Burrell becomes a top Championship striker we would be gleefully cashing in. I don't trust us to keep replacing with better, to be honest, which makes me think our chances of ever doing anything in the long-run just diminish.
Can someone reassure me that this model which presumably Brentford / Brighton did to get promoted - is that what they actually did on their way up? Genuinely? Or was it more that they had one bonanza gem (eg Watkins) that they cashed in to such a huge extent?
Just seems such a long and precarious road, but then again every other road we have tried has failed dismally so I guess it has to be the approach.
Ten years ago, 2015-16, Brentford sold:
Will Grigg £1m Stuart Dallas £1.3m Moses Odubajo £3.5m Andre Gray £9m James Tarkowski £3m
Came 9th, about £15m up.
next summer, signed Bentley, Egan, Romaine Sawyers on frees, small fee for Canos, £1.5 Rico Henry. All future mainstays,
Sold Scott Hogan to Villa for £10 million.
Replaced Hogan with Maupay for £1.8m and Watkins for £1.8 million. Two better players and £6m profit.
2018:
Sold Chris Mepham for £12 million Ryan Woods for £7m John Egan for £4m
Signed Josh Dasilva on a free (and Odujabo back on a free!) Ensra Konsa for £2.5m Benhrama for £3m
These last two will go soon after around £35m...
Let's not forget replacing Watkins at huge profit with Toney then Toney with Thiago...each time making huge profits while also climbing the leagues.
This is how you do it. You have to rip out the core of your team every year for big money and replace with better but cheaper. Have to constantly sell and recycle, sell and recycle and and then, after maybe four seasons of this, you are cooking.
We are cavemen trying to make sparks with stones compared with Thomas Edison down the road at the moment.
4
Christian Nourry - Two Year Anniversary on 12:36 - Jan 29 with 175 views
Christian Nourry - Two Year Anniversary on 11:43 - Jan 29 by Hunterhoop
It is what Brentford did. Think it was Maupay they sold for big money, replaced with Watkins, replaced with Toney (and promotion). Might have the order wrong. And there might have been someone before Maupay. They also did similar with centre haves, I believe.
Their access to data, and especially Brighton’s through Tony Bloom’s betting set up, is miles ahead of anyone else’s, including us. That’s where the risk comes in.
And, as I keep saying, whether it’s right or depressing, by taking an amortisation approach to transfer fees spent, it is a MUST that you sell players for decent money every year. No other options.
They also sold Konsa, Tarkowski, Benhrama and a few others. They were very good at it, still are. Everyone tries to do this and paints it as an original idea.
[Post edited 29 Jan 12:43]
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Christian Nourry - Two Year Anniversary on 12:45 - Jan 29 with 158 views
Christian Nourry - Two Year Anniversary on 12:36 - Jan 29 by daveB
They also sold Konsa, Tarkowski, Benhrama and a few others. They were very good at it, still are. Everyone tries to do this and paints it as an original idea.
[Post edited 29 Jan 12:43]
Read a while back Brighton gave ipswich there system to use for a year or so , it was the season before they got promoted thats why they went out and bought a huge bunch of decent young players got promoted and then obv came back down as quikcly. brighton asked for system back last season i think .
not sure which version we are using but im guessing its something which is. way way less complicated than the ones brighton and brentford use .
Christian Nourry - Two Year Anniversary on 12:36 - Jan 29 by daveB
They also sold Konsa, Tarkowski, Benhrama and a few others. They were very good at it, still are. Everyone tries to do this and paints it as an original idea.
[Post edited 29 Jan 12:43]
They are incredibly good at identifying big talent at value, obviously. But having the confidence to keep selling their best performers and replacing with better, but cheaper unknowns is not really something many fanbases would put up with.
I just can't imagine the reaction if this summer we sold Burrell, Madsen, Varane, maybe Mbengue, a keeper all in one window...but that's what they were doing ten years ago. Having a half decent season and selling all the best performers. Replacing then with relative unknowns.
Also, not just selling Watkins or Konsa who go on to have even better success elsewhere, but getting the very best they can out of some players and then selling Mepham for £12m (!!) or Hogan for £10m, Ryan Woods for £7m, players who they massively inflated the true value of and who will never play as well again.
We're so far off that, it's infuriating. Let's start by selling Madsen this summer.
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