| Thatcher dead 12:56 - Apr 8 with 82763 views | six_foot_two |
Skynews are are saying Magaret Thatcher has died of a stroke |  | | |  |
| Thatcher dead on 14:47 - Apr 10 with 1910 views | londonscottish |
In no particular order
1 Thatcher freed up a lot of industry from some very old established practices which in many cases turned out to be a good thing. Eg allowing Virgin to challenge BA's monopoly at Heathrow, letting other vendors sell services over BT lines, etc etc. These are good things in my book.
2 Her monetary policy in the early days was sheer lunacy - dropping income tax and raising VAT simultaneously kicking off an immediate inflationary spiral. Trying to damp it down with interest rate as oil kicked in pushing the value of sterling through the roof and wiping out whole areas of industry for good in two short, brutal years. Estimated to have wiped out 15% of our manufacturing base. Stupid, dogmatic destruction which we are all still paying for.
3 Destroying the mining industry in as malicous a way as possible. Wanton destruction that left the area of Fife I grew up in economically bereft to this day. Why do you think so many Scots ended up in London?
Over the years I've mellowed somewhat towards Thatcher and have embraced that she did do a lot of good.
Then I remember how she decimated the part of Scotland I cam from with no plan B and I start to simmer again. Then I hear her voice and I feel nauseous.
She did a lot of good things and a lot of bad things but the way she went about it was abhorrent and she possessed one of the most annoying voices known to mankind |  |
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| Thatcher dead on 15:03 - Apr 10 with 1890 views | A40Bosh |
| Thatcher dead on 14:47 - Apr 10 by londonscottish |
In no particular order
1 Thatcher freed up a lot of industry from some very old established practices which in many cases turned out to be a good thing. Eg allowing Virgin to challenge BA's monopoly at Heathrow, letting other vendors sell services over BT lines, etc etc. These are good things in my book.
2 Her monetary policy in the early days was sheer lunacy - dropping income tax and raising VAT simultaneously kicking off an immediate inflationary spiral. Trying to damp it down with interest rate as oil kicked in pushing the value of sterling through the roof and wiping out whole areas of industry for good in two short, brutal years. Estimated to have wiped out 15% of our manufacturing base. Stupid, dogmatic destruction which we are all still paying for.
3 Destroying the mining industry in as malicous a way as possible. Wanton destruction that left the area of Fife I grew up in economically bereft to this day. Why do you think so many Scots ended up in London?
Over the years I've mellowed somewhat towards Thatcher and have embraced that she did do a lot of good.
Then I remember how she decimated the part of Scotland I cam from with no plan B and I start to simmer again. Then I hear her voice and I feel nauseous.
She did a lot of good things and a lot of bad things but the way she went about it was abhorrent and she possessed one of the most annoying voices known to mankind |
Whilst others will argue, there is a lot of sense in that summary. As I said earlier there is no right or wrong, it is perspective when reflecting back on that period and whether you and yours were not effected, effected in a positive way or your livelihood and mere existence decimated by her government's policies during the three term tenure.
I would also like to congratulate everyone on us getting to page 22 of a thread without a single threat of the thread being closed or removed. Despite polar opposites in terms of political and social backgrounds and viewpoints, it has been an ongoing thread since the news broke that has actually made me think more about my own views on the political and social systems I have lived through more so than in the last 20 years.
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| Thatcher dead on 15:34 - Apr 10 with 1859 views | Stanisgod |
| Thatcher dead on 08:53 - Apr 10 by Gloucs_R |
But surely in this day and age with have HR and solicitors that can sort out most of these issues? I appreciate what the world used to look like but I cant see that we need them anymore. I also despise being held to ransom by striking unions.
My wife is a teacher, she is in a Union - much to my disgust - but its a non striking union. |
You must live in a very different world to me mate, HR is human resources, which took over from personell departments, two very very different animals. The old personell departments were very much 50/50 and on the fence help both sides people ( at least the ones I've been associated with ), who you could talk to about literally ANYTHING, home problems, work issues, union issues, health, anything. And they listened even if they couldn't always help.
I've found since it went to HR they have become cold, uncaring totally employer biased places.
The first two lines are so naive I can't even get my head round it. No offence meant, but I get the impression from previous posts you are not exactly shop-floor orientated, so are completely blinkered as to all the good unions do, which far outway the bad, which is all you hear about. Again, no offence,perhaps just differing experience and a different walk of life involved. |  |
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| Thatcher dead on 15:34 - Apr 10 with 1859 views | londonscottish |
| Thatcher dead on 15:03 - Apr 10 by A40Bosh |
Whilst others will argue, there is a lot of sense in that summary. As I said earlier there is no right or wrong, it is perspective when reflecting back on that period and whether you and yours were not effected, effected in a positive way or your livelihood and mere existence decimated by her government's policies during the three term tenure.
I would also like to congratulate everyone on us getting to page 22 of a thread without a single threat of the thread being closed or removed. Despite polar opposites in terms of political and social backgrounds and viewpoints, it has been an ongoing thread since the news broke that has actually made me think more about my own views on the political and social systems I have lived through more so than in the last 20 years.
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You're right. It is fascinating to look back. And also fascinating to hear all of the different viewpoints. The Guardian ran a really interesting piece with some of her former colleagues being quite critical and former enemies being quite complimentary. Their economics commentators generally felt that the financial benefits (probably) outweighed the negatives overall. A view not shared, of course, in many communities but interesting in that it came from a centre-left broadsheet.
I genuinely don't think there can be one sensible answer.
And I surprised to find how my old emotion rapidly rises to the surface. | |
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| Thatcher dead on 15:41 - Apr 10 with 1851 views | Cliff |
| Thatcher dead on 15:34 - Apr 10 by Stanisgod |
You must live in a very different world to me mate, HR is human resources, which took over from personell departments, two very very different animals. The old personell departments were very much 50/50 and on the fence help both sides people ( at least the ones I've been associated with ), who you could talk to about literally ANYTHING, home problems, work issues, union issues, health, anything. And they listened even if they couldn't always help.
I've found since it went to HR they have become cold, uncaring totally employer biased places.
The first two lines are so naive I can't even get my head round it. No offence meant, but I get the impression from previous posts you are not exactly shop-floor orientated, so are completely blinkered as to all the good unions do, which far outway the bad, which is all you hear about. Again, no offence,perhaps just differing experience and a different walk of life involved. |
I agree with that I hate being under Human Resources. I am a person and I wan't to be considered as personnel, not a resource. Human Resources puts you on the same level as bit of furniture, you know as in lets send someone around to count how many chairs and how many humans we've got!
Of course all of this is the fault of ....... well actually I don't really know who's fault it is but I don't like it. [Post edited 1 Jan 1970 1:00]
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| Thatcher dead on 15:45 - Apr 10 with 1843 views | Cliff |
| Thatcher dead on 14:42 - Apr 10 by Gloucs_R |
A very good friend of mine is someone high up in an energy company. He swears that the yanks have a self generating electricity box that they could share with the world if they want to. But that would kill off the need for oil, therefore putting the us economy in free fall. No reason to doubt him, very senior and very technology savvy. |
Your friend needs to look up the first law of thermodynamics! | | | |
| Thatcher dead on 16:08 - Apr 10 with 1809 views | A40Bosh |
| Thatcher dead on 15:41 - Apr 10 by Cliff |
I agree with that I hate being under Human Resources. I am a person and I wan't to be considered as personnel, not a resource. Human Resources puts you on the same level as bit of furniture, you know as in lets send someone around to count how many chairs and how many humans we've got!
Of course all of this is the fault of ....... well actually I don't really know who's fault it is but I don't like it. [Post edited 1 Jan 1970 1:00]
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My experience with HR is that they are there to protect the company's position and apart from a 10 minute "welcome to the company" chat on day one, the only time you tend to be sat in front of anyone from HR after your first day is when they are telling you along with your line manager that unfortunately your "role" has been made redundant.
However, saying that , my indirect experience of union support through watching my wife go through a redundancy process from her school this time last year, is that unions don't really have any teeth any more when it comes to dealing with redundancy due to budget cuts. In my wife's case, the local rep was a teacher at the school who did not want to rock the boat too much and was probably more worried about losing their own job, so half the time the school staff under threat were bypassing their own local rep and listening to advice from the other union's rep. At the end of the day, the consultancy process is a joke. The consultation is basically them telling you that in 30 days they are going to formally tell you that unfortunately your job HAS been made redundant, but at the moment they are just thinking about it being made redundant and if you have any input then let them know during the 30 days and they will consider it! - Yeah, right, course you will!!!!
However, saying that I think there is a big difference between working in private companies and working in an industry which was previously publicly owned and since privatized. I think the mind set of people working in different industries is probably different because as some have written above, if you have never had a union defending your supposed "rights", then you are more used to fighting (if you are so inclined) individually for your terms of employment.
Someone said above.....
"Thanks to people like Thatcher we still live in a country where the two owners of my firm have just taken a bonus of £1 million each while the people who earned that money haven't had a pay rise for at least the two years I've been here and are too frightened to kick up any fuss in case they lose their jobs."
I kind of take issue with that statement if I am playing devils advocate, because having worked in the private sector and heard the CEO and owner of our company (a Canadian) whilst standing in a meeting room in front of 100+ UK employees say to us that "I am in this business to make money, not create jobs for people".
So that is a capitalist statement that you cannot pin on Thatcher. Was Thatcher a supporter of capitalism, yes of course she was, did she invent it..........er no.
Again, not picking holes in the original posters comments, but putting a view across, the fact that the "owners" of the business took £1m bonus whilst the rest of the company did not get a pay rise for two years, is the upside of being an "owner" and presumably someone who has invested time and personal finance into the business to make it successful. They will probably argue that you signed a contract of employment to earn a certain wage with no guarantee of annual pay rises so where is your problem. If you invest £10mm into the company then perhaps you get your say in how it is run. Until then, if you dont like it, then go find another job.
Now I am not saying that is nice or perhaps even fair, but that is capitalism for you. If you are lucky enough to be able to walk out of one job into a better paid one because you want or need more money then often that is what has to be done.
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| Thatcher dead on 16:09 - Apr 10 with 1806 views | hoopstilidie |
| Thatcher dead on 13:45 - Apr 10 by THEBUSH |
The mines didn't get reopened because North Sea Natural Gas took over from Coal Fired Power Stations.
The problem is, North Sea Natural Gas is running out and we will have to wait and see, as to what form of power, takes over ? |
So she was right to close them then by that reasoning. No? |  |
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| Thatcher dead on 16:14 - Apr 10 with 1795 views | TheBlob |
| Thatcher dead on 14:42 - Apr 10 by Gloucs_R |
A very good friend of mine is someone high up in an energy company. He swears that the yanks have a self generating electricity box that they could share with the world if they want to. But that would kill off the need for oil, therefore putting the us economy in free fall. No reason to doubt him, very senior and very technology savvy. |
Tesla is supposed to be responsible for such a device - taps atmospheric energy.
Anyway,get your picks and shovels out.....
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/earth/environment/9975652/Shale-gas-could-heat-all-ho |  |
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| Thatcher dead on 16:34 - Apr 10 with 1768 views | Snipper |
Another thing that really pissed me off about her, she got Dennis awarded a hereditary knighthood. It's already been passed onto her son.
She really hated her working class roots and ensured the title is passed down the generations.
Bitch. . |  | | |
| Thatcher dead on 16:36 - Apr 10 with 1759 views | TheBlob |
Will be interesting to see the details of the Will. | |
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| Thatcher dead on 17:13 - Apr 10 with 1734 views | Cornish_oooRRRR |
| Thatcher dead on 14:42 - Apr 10 by Gloucs_R |
A very good friend of mine is someone high up in an energy company. He swears that the yanks have a self generating electricity box that they could share with the world if they want to. But that would kill off the need for oil, therefore putting the us economy in free fall. No reason to doubt him, very senior and very technology savvy. |
????
You are joking aren't you? |  |
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| Thatcher dead on 17:30 - Apr 10 with 1700 views | hoopstilidie |
Unless that's his suicide note then I have no interest in reading it.
Will be self-serving wordy pretentious drivel. | |
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| Thatcher dead on 17:57 - Apr 10 with 1655 views | Gloucs_R |
| Thatcher dead on 17:13 - Apr 10 by Cornish_oooRRRR |
????
You are joking aren't you? |
Nope. Just did a google and found something called a bloom box. Don't know if that's what he means but it's not unthinkable. |  |
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| Thatcher dead on 18:01 - Apr 10 with 1650 views | Gloucs_R |
| Thatcher dead on 15:34 - Apr 10 by Stanisgod |
You must live in a very different world to me mate, HR is human resources, which took over from personell departments, two very very different animals. The old personell departments were very much 50/50 and on the fence help both sides people ( at least the ones I've been associated with ), who you could talk to about literally ANYTHING, home problems, work issues, union issues, health, anything. And they listened even if they couldn't always help.
I've found since it went to HR they have become cold, uncaring totally employer biased places.
The first two lines are so naive I can't even get my head round it. No offence meant, but I get the impression from previous posts you are not exactly shop-floor orientated, so are completely blinkered as to all the good unions do, which far outway the bad, which is all you hear about. Again, no offence,perhaps just differing experience and a different walk of life involved. |
No offence taken. Always open to being educated, the basis of every debate.
I work for a manufacturer but nowhere near the shop floor. | |
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| Thatcher dead on 18:03 - Apr 10 with 1649 views | BklynRanger |
| Thatcher dead on 17:57 - Apr 10 by Gloucs_R |
Nope. Just did a google and found something called a bloom box. Don't know if that's what he means but it's not unthinkable. |
What?! I quite frankly fail to see how the planet could be powered by one of these:
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| Thatcher dead on 18:10 - Apr 10 with 1636 views | Cliff |
| Thatcher dead on 17:57 - Apr 10 by Gloucs_R |
Nope. Just did a google and found something called a bloom box. Don't know if that's what he means but it's not unthinkable. |
Just had a quick read of the Bloom Box stuff and it appears that it isn't a new energy source, merely a new means of converting that source into electricity. It's key selling point is that it is somehow greener than conventional generation. I saw somehow because it is still essentially a fossil fuel burner that produces CO2.
Bloom Energy claim an efficiency of ~50%, which is less than the ~60% of a conventional gas turbine power plant. So it's major selling point appears to be it's green credentials. | | | |
| Thatcher dead on 18:13 - Apr 10 with 1629 views | Aunt_Nelly |
| Thatcher dead on 18:03 - Apr 10 by BklynRanger |
What?! I quite frankly fail to see how the planet could be powered by one of these:
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| Thatcher dead on 18:14 - Apr 10 with 1627 views | highlandbill |
| Thatcher dead on 16:34 - Apr 10 by Snipper |
Another thing that really pissed me off about her, she got Dennis awarded a hereditary knighthood. It's already been passed onto her son.
She really hated her working class roots and ensured the title is passed down the generations.
Bitch. . |
Thanks for this. I read the Independent today & could not understand why they referred to Sir Mark Thatcher. I thought Jesus! when did I miss that bit if syncophancy? Now I know its because of the inheritance angle. Our country has a lot of issues to sort out & this is one of them. The reality is that the royal family are top of the tree and need to be got rid of as they are the top of a pyramid of class privilige. |  |
| At my age I should not be doing this! |
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| Thatcher dead on 18:14 - Apr 10 with 1625 views | highlandbill |
Impossible! | |
| At my age I should not be doing this! |
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| Thatcher dead on 18:20 - Apr 10 with 1619 views | Gloucs_R |
| Thatcher dead on 18:10 - Apr 10 by Cliff |
Just had a quick read of the Bloom Box stuff and it appears that it isn't a new energy source, merely a new means of converting that source into electricity. It's key selling point is that it is somehow greener than conventional generation. I saw somehow because it is still essentially a fossil fuel burner that produces CO2.
Bloom Energy claim an efficiency of ~50%, which is less than the ~60% of a conventional gas turbine power plant. So it's major selling point appears to be it's green credentials. |
As I said, it may not be that. My friend couldn't tell me much more than I posted. Let's be honest though, plenty of technology gets held back for various reasons.......and we are talking about the us. I don't think we will know if this technology exists for a very long time but I believe he was telling me what he thought was the truth. | |
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| Thatcher dead on 18:43 - Apr 10 with 1600 views | R_from_afar |
| Thatcher dead on 14:39 - Apr 10 by Metallica_Hoop |
Yeah I got sidetracked sorry. I'd slightly prefer nuclear to coal-fired was my gist hence do we need the coal if we go nuclear?
However both are better than thousands of propellers sitting off the coastline. |
Nuclear power has one of the same failings as wind energy in that it is intermittent; nuclear power plants have to be taken offline for refuelling and maintenance and it takes some time to get them back up, unlike gas and coal plants. They can also end up being out of service for months, like San Onofre in the US (and at the same time that some UK daily rags were poking fun at a wind turbine which broke in a mega gale, a main supply cable to a UK nuclear power station broke, taking the whole plant offline). They are not flexible, you can't just turn up the wick, but then, wind energy on its own is not that flexible either. Another issue with nuclear is the huge lead time and the fact that globally, most projects are well behind schedule. I still think they have a role to play but there are some serious issues which many green bashers have conveniently overlooked (or perhaps are simply unaware of).
What you can do, and Cambridge Uni physics professor David Mackay explains it much better than me, is to pair intermittent renewables like solar and wind with storage technologies. In Spain, solar energy is stored in molten salt, for up to seven hours, so solar can generate energy round the clock. In the Canaries, wind turbines are being paired with pumped storage facilities - a pool above a pool basically - so excess wind power can be used to pump water uphill when the wind is blowing and the water can drive turbines when the wind isn't blowing.
We already have pumped storage in the UK, it's just we need more of it, as part of a mix of techologies (not just gas, gas, gas, George).
RFA
[Post edited 1 Jan 1970 1:00]
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| "Things had started becoming increasingly desperate at Loftus Road but QPR have been handed a massive lifeline and the place has absolutely erupted. it's carnage. It's bedlam. It's 1-1." |
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