| It could be worse 10:41 - Dec 20 with 1209 views | stowmarketrange |
The England cricket team seem to be showing the same fight and spirit we do when it comes to a battle.
We're supposed to be the 2nd best cricket team in the world?Another collapse from the spineless b@stards. |  | | |  |
| It could be worse on 12:58 - Dec 20 with 1184 views | runningman75 |
Amazing that India scored more than 700 runs in an innings and Nair scores 303 not out which was nearly 100 more than the entire English second innings. |  | | |
| It could be worse on 13:10 - Dec 20 with 1168 views | CamberleyR |
The cricket team are finding new ways to embarrass the nation. How many other teams have made 23 short of 500 in their first innings and gone on to lose by an innings? Not many I'd wager. |  |
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| It could be worse on 14:00 - Dec 20 with 1111 views | Clive_Anderson |
I hate them. | | | |
| It could be worse on 14:11 - Dec 20 with 1095 views | ElHoop |
I suspect that they hate cricket themselves after the past 12 months. Just the 5 tests against India following 2 in Bangladesh (behind a security blanket) - the summer saw 3 tests against Pakistan and 2 ahainst Sri Lanka and the year started with 4 tests in South Africa. Those 16 tests exclude the one-dayers and T20s, which some test players also take part in. It's too many in too little time. |  | | |
| It could be worse on 14:31 - Dec 20 with 1076 views | stowmarketrange |
| It could be worse on 14:11 - Dec 20 by ElHoop |
I suspect that they hate cricket themselves after the past 12 months. Just the 5 tests against India following 2 in Bangladesh (behind a security blanket) - the summer saw 3 tests against Pakistan and 2 ahainst Sri Lanka and the year started with 4 tests in South Africa. Those 16 tests exclude the one-dayers and T20s, which some test players also take part in. It's too many in too little time. |
Lucky they mostly only took part in 3 and 4 day tests then isn't it?Otherwise they'd be really knackered.
The only people that can have a case to be tired are the bowlers because the batsmen were never at the wicket for long enough to wear themselves out.
The trouble with England is that we have too many of the top order who resort to playing one day cricket shots when the pressure is on instead of getting their heads down and constructing an innings. [Post edited 20 Dec 2016 14:46]
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| It could be worse on 16:39 - Dec 20 with 1030 views | ElHoop |
| It could be worse on 14:31 - Dec 20 by stowmarketrange |
Lucky they mostly only took part in 3 and 4 day tests then isn't it?Otherwise they'd be really knackered.
The only people that can have a case to be tired are the bowlers because the batsmen were never at the wicket for long enough to wear themselves out.
The trouble with England is that we have too many of the top order who resort to playing one day cricket shots when the pressure is on instead of getting their heads down and constructing an innings. [Post edited 20 Dec 2016 14:46]
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I think that our top order looks a bit more promising in fact, with Jennings and Hameed offering some hope for a world after Cook, which may come sooner than expected, although Cook may stand down both as captain and down the order at 3. I can't see too much wrong with that as a top order.
The main problem is that we don't have a decent spinner or two. If we had matched the Indians in that department then the series may have been a lot different. As it stands they've smashed everyone out there for years now. I think that the last team to even win a single test out there was England, back in the days of Swanny and Monty. | | | |
| It could be worse on 16:48 - Dec 20 with 1023 views | CiderwithRsie |
I don't believe for a minute that the England cricketers are spineless. That is the line sports fans always trot out after any failure and IMO its usually untrue. Broad bowled in an earlier match with a foot injury that kept him out of the following game; a couple of years back Root batted a long innings v WI with a broken bone; Hameed in this series batted with a broken hand.
Its easy to say "they should want it more" they should try harder" but it doesn't stop you nicking off. In this match most of the dismissals weren't due to spinelessness or lack of fight - the worst was probably Ali going after a ball he should have left alone. If anything, he showed too much fight.
England's problem isn't lack of fight its lack of brain. The shot selection is terrible and they don't seem to be able to adapt to situations - to say "right, I know my natural game is to attack but right here, right now, I need to not get out. I'm putting any shot that could get me out back in the locker until next game."
All of them can play, I think everyone in the top 7 has a test hundred, but they aren't living up to it. In that case you have to look at the coaching staff. At test level they're not there to teach technique, they're there to bring it out. Step forward batting coach Mark Ramprakash. If ever you wanted to find someone who had all the talent in the world and completely failed to deliver on it, Ramps was your man. Christ only knows who thought he was qualified to coach test batsmen, but he has to go asap. I'd give Alec Stewart anything he wanted for the job, but I doubt they'd get him away from Surrey. Failing him I'd go for Graham Thorpe or Paul Collingwood. Colly was pretty much the Anti-Ramprakash. | | | |
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| It could be worse on 17:25 - Dec 20 with 1000 views | stowmarketrange |
| It could be worse on 16:39 - Dec 20 by ElHoop |
I think that our top order looks a bit more promising in fact, with Jennings and Hameed offering some hope for a world after Cook, which may come sooner than expected, although Cook may stand down both as captain and down the order at 3. I can't see too much wrong with that as a top order.
The main problem is that we don't have a decent spinner or two. If we had matched the Indians in that department then the series may have been a lot different. As it stands they've smashed everyone out there for years now. I think that the last team to even win a single test out there was England, back in the days of Swanny and Monty. |
Which batting team would you have wanted to bat out the 5th day to save the game?
The Indian one,the South Africans.I think that even the Bangladesh team might have survived for a day in those conditions.What we got was the normal capitulation from good players without the nous to play test cricket.
I certainly don't think that was a pitch where 204 was an acceptable total,and to lose 7 wickets for 15 runs on that pitch was definitely not acceptable.They either lost their heads or their fight when they most needed it. | | | |
| It could be worse on 17:46 - Dec 20 with 991 views | Boston |
Could you be more specific old chap, is it the heat, the food or the Holy Cows? | |
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| It could be worse on 20:03 - Dec 20 with 933 views | ElHoop |
| It could be worse on 17:25 - Dec 20 by stowmarketrange |
Which batting team would you have wanted to bat out the 5th day to save the game?
The Indian one,the South Africans.I think that even the Bangladesh team might have survived for a day in those conditions.What we got was the normal capitulation from good players without the nous to play test cricket.
I certainly don't think that was a pitch where 204 was an acceptable total,and to lose 7 wickets for 15 runs on that pitch was definitely not acceptable.They either lost their heads or their fight when they most needed it. |
It was a bit sad how it finished, but they've been out there for f*cking months and touring sides tend to get a bit travel weary as well as body weary at this stage. I see that some of them are back out there again in January for the one dayers and T20s. Lucky them! Overall I think that we're looking OK for the upcoming series. There's few easy games at test level these days, but we can hold our own. Whether we lost 3-0 or 4-0 wasn't massively important and I doubt that you'll ever see a five match series played quite so quickly again - it didn't work on a number of levels, least of all England's performance. A test match should stand out in the schedule, not become a routine. | | | |
| It could be worse on 20:44 - Dec 20 with 906 views | CamberleyR |
| It could be worse on 20:03 - Dec 20 by ElHoop |
It was a bit sad how it finished, but they've been out there for f*cking months and touring sides tend to get a bit travel weary as well as body weary at this stage. I see that some of them are back out there again in January for the one dayers and T20s. Lucky them! Overall I think that we're looking OK for the upcoming series. There's few easy games at test level these days, but we can hold our own. Whether we lost 3-0 or 4-0 wasn't massively important and I doubt that you'll ever see a five match series played quite so quickly again - it didn't work on a number of levels, least of all England's performance. A test match should stand out in the schedule, not become a routine. |
Agreed. Five tests in six weeks is fcking madness, all down to trying to cram in as many ODIs and T20s into the schedule. Back in the day a touring side over here would play that many tests in eleven weeks and as you say it was an event.
It's the same when we tour Australia, the last test series over in just over six weeks, back in the day the test series would last from mid November to early February and not that far back either, the 94/95 series did just that (98/99 started the trend of three tests before Christmas ). | |
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| It could be worse on 21:30 - Dec 20 with 876 views | ElHoop |
| It could be worse on 20:44 - Dec 20 by CamberleyR |
Agreed. Five tests in six weeks is fcking madness, all down to trying to cram in as many ODIs and T20s into the schedule. Back in the day a touring side over here would play that many tests in eleven weeks and as you say it was an event.
It's the same when we tour Australia, the last test series over in just over six weeks, back in the day the test series would last from mid November to early February and not that far back either, the 94/95 series did just that (98/99 started the trend of three tests before Christmas ). |
Yes the expansion in the schedule is down to TV presumably and there's more money for the top players as a result, but they're not machines and however disappointing it is to get a drubbing we'll no doubt smash up someone else sooner rather than later. Most of the test players don't play much county cricket so the ups and downs are almost wholly derived from test matches. Not really surprising that the lows get lower in that sort of scenario.
Those determined to slag off England should remember that we play more test matches than anyone else and we also contribute relatively more exciting tests and gripping series than anyone else. OK this was disappointing, but overall we are good value and good for the game. | | | |
| It could be worse on 00:11 - Dec 21 with 831 views | stowmarketrange |
| It could be worse on 20:03 - Dec 20 by ElHoop |
It was a bit sad how it finished, but they've been out there for f*cking months and touring sides tend to get a bit travel weary as well as body weary at this stage. I see that some of them are back out there again in January for the one dayers and T20s. Lucky them! Overall I think that we're looking OK for the upcoming series. There's few easy games at test level these days, but we can hold our own. Whether we lost 3-0 or 4-0 wasn't massively important and I doubt that you'll ever see a five match series played quite so quickly again - it didn't work on a number of levels, least of all England's performance. A test match should stand out in the schedule, not become a routine. |
Were they in Bangladesh for f@cking months?How do you explain 10 wickets lost for 64 runs in 1 session to give Bangladesh their first ever victory against a top side,and they could've won the first test too.
Our team has a mental frailty when we are up against it and that usually spells a collapse.The opening pair seem ok,but when a wicket falls there is another one around the corner.
We need to adapt our batting to something other than 1 day mode.The good teams do. | | | |
| It could be worse on 07:25 - Dec 21 with 801 views | ElHoop |
| It could be worse on 00:11 - Dec 21 by stowmarketrange |
Were they in Bangladesh for f@cking months?How do you explain 10 wickets lost for 64 runs in 1 session to give Bangladesh their first ever victory against a top side,and they could've won the first test too.
Our team has a mental frailty when we are up against it and that usually spells a collapse.The opening pair seem ok,but when a wicket falls there is another one around the corner.
We need to adapt our batting to something other than 1 day mode.The good teams do. |
Look I'm not saying that the collapses were good, clearly they weren't, but unlike some i'm not going to bury the England team for losing in India. Everyone loses out there at the moment. We don't have the bowlers to put pressure on teams out in Asia. So the pressure is always on our batters. Yes some of them folded up at time s but it's a lot easier to bat against our somewhat insipid bowlers with everyone back on the boundary than it is to bat against theirs with a 200 run lead giving them attacking field placings. If we put more pressure on their batsmen then they might fold up too - we just don't give them the opportunity. | | | |
| It could be worse on 09:43 - Dec 21 with 767 views | CamberleyR |
Considering most pundits were predicting a 5-0 whitewash (brownwash? like the Windies 1980s blackwash? ), I think we've done well to avoid that. The sub continent has always been tough going for ANY England team. We've only won two series in Pakistan in nearly sixty years, once in the early 60s and the series at the turn of the century when Thorpe and Hussein clinched victory in darkness in Karachi, four series wins in eighty odd years in India and one series win in Sri Lanka. | |
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| It could be worse on 12:51 - Dec 21 with 738 views | stowmarketrange |
| It could be worse on 07:25 - Dec 21 by ElHoop |
Look I'm not saying that the collapses were good, clearly they weren't, but unlike some i'm not going to bury the England team for losing in India. Everyone loses out there at the moment. We don't have the bowlers to put pressure on teams out in Asia. So the pressure is always on our batters. Yes some of them folded up at time s but it's a lot easier to bat against our somewhat insipid bowlers with everyone back on the boundary than it is to bat against theirs with a 200 run lead giving them attacking field placings. If we put more pressure on their batsmen then they might fold up too - we just don't give them the opportunity. |
I didn't mean to have a pop but I just don't think that tiredness played as a big a part in our defeats as some others.I question some of our batting order and whether they have the mental strength to play test cricket in an away series.
We seem to have filled it up with one day batsmen who are fine going out and knocking 60-70 runs in 30 mins,but we won't win many test matches with numbers 3-8 all playing like Messi.
We need a calming boring influence to steady the ship a bit and maybe we should've taken Ian Bell to Bangladesh & India?
The tuffers & Vaugham show on 5live was worth a listen last night as they seemed to hold a similar opinion to myself.
On a separate subject,I thought bottled it by retiring when he did and there's no reason why he couldn't still play now.Or at least go on tour to assist the spinners that are playing now. | | | |
| It could be worse on 18:21 - Dec 21 with 695 views | ElHoop |
| It could be worse on 12:51 - Dec 21 by stowmarketrange |
I didn't mean to have a pop but I just don't think that tiredness played as a big a part in our defeats as some others.I question some of our batting order and whether they have the mental strength to play test cricket in an away series.
We seem to have filled it up with one day batsmen who are fine going out and knocking 60-70 runs in 30 mins,but we won't win many test matches with numbers 3-8 all playing like Messi.
We need a calming boring influence to steady the ship a bit and maybe we should've taken Ian Bell to Bangladesh & India?
The tuffers & Vaugham show on 5live was worth a listen last night as they seemed to hold a similar opinion to myself.
On a separate subject,I thought bottled it by retiring when he did and there's no reason why he couldn't still play now.Or at least go on tour to assist the spinners that are playing now. |
I think tha tthe batting order will settle down if the top 4 are Hameed, Jennings, Cook and Root for a while. The middle order was starting with Ali at 4 but if he plays he should be 7 or 8 in my opinion and be playing as a bowler who bats. The top order should be providing the solidity and the middle order should be opening up, which is what they've been doing without the top order being solid either. I think that it could fit together against slightly easier opposition and given a year or two we might have a very decent side.
As for the tiredness, there's no gaps to do much other than rest, when you play 5 tests like that. There should be some sort of opportunity to regroup and try something different, but it wasn't available. So once we started losing there didn't seem to be much chance of doing very much to change things. That in itself must be difficult. So we kept losing and doing the same things wrong. Hopefully they'll learn some lessons and the ICC will too. | | | |
| It could be worse on 20:20 - Dec 21 with 653 views | CiderwithRsie |
| It could be worse on 07:25 - Dec 21 by ElHoop |
Look I'm not saying that the collapses were good, clearly they weren't, but unlike some i'm not going to bury the England team for losing in India. Everyone loses out there at the moment. We don't have the bowlers to put pressure on teams out in Asia. So the pressure is always on our batters. Yes some of them folded up at time s but it's a lot easier to bat against our somewhat insipid bowlers with everyone back on the boundary than it is to bat against theirs with a 200 run lead giving them attacking field placings. If we put more pressure on their batsmen then they might fold up too - we just don't give them the opportunity. |
A lot in that, but don't go too far the other way. We could have been more competitive; we won the toss most matches and, apart from the 2nd test (which was an utter screw-up) we posted decent 1st innings scores, but in each case we should have scored more - there were stupid thrown away wickets every time.
The impression I got was that we thought we'd done OK to get to 400 ish, but the Indians wren't going to be stressed by a score of 400 - it isn't easy, but they'd back themselves. Those thrown away wickets in the middle order we the difference between OK-ish scores and genuine scoreboard pressure - 550, 600,650. And without scoreboard pressure our attack was going to struggle in those conditions.
I also think we didn't use the seamers properly - it should have been a reverse of the normal, Anderson Broad and Woakes should have been bowling tight, not really trying for wickets, but giving nothing away so that Rashid could attack as much as possible, and Ali spear it in.
The selections were poor too - Hameed should have opened from the 1st test in Bangladesh, Duckett was worth a try but not as an opener (he doesn't open for Northants FFS), Ballance shouldn't have been near the squad. Jennings has been good but was forced on the selectors - probably he should have been in the squad ahead of Ballance (I'd have picked Gubbins personally, but I'm biased in favour of Middx and against South Africans. Too late now, Jennings has earnt his place and good luck to him.) | | | |
| It could be worse on 20:59 - Dec 21 with 643 views | welwynranger |
| It could be worse on 00:11 - Dec 21 by stowmarketrange |
Were they in Bangladesh for f@cking months?How do you explain 10 wickets lost for 64 runs in 1 session to give Bangladesh their first ever victory against a top side,and they could've won the first test too.
Our team has a mental frailty when we are up against it and that usually spells a collapse.The opening pair seem ok,but when a wicket falls there is another one around the corner.
We need to adapt our batting to something other than 1 day mode.The good teams do. |
Our team has a mental frailty when we are up against it and that usually spells a collapse. Which team are you talking about England or QPR | | | |
| It could be worse on 21:50 - Dec 21 with 634 views | ozexile |
Need to find a spinner urgently before the ashes. You can't win an ashes series over here without one. | | | |
| It could be worse on 22:05 - Dec 21 with 633 views | stowmarketrange |
| It could be worse on 20:59 - Dec 21 by welwynranger |
Our team has a mental frailty when we are up against it and that usually spells a collapse. Which team are you talking about England or QPR |
Both.Although at least England have a captain. | | | |
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