| Great thread on twitter regarding QPR financial situation 22:37 - Apr 3 with 9914 views | Bakes |
Found this on the Twitter, I’m sure a lot of you would have seen it already but for those that haven’t have a read.
*Warning* this is a long thread.
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| With Faith And Courage Comes Glory |
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| Great thread on twitter regarding QPR financial situation on 22:40 - Apr 3 with 7171 views | Northernr |
Long thread short - Hoos is doing quite some job here. |  | | |
| Great thread on twitter regarding QPR financial situation on 22:46 - Apr 3 with 7121 views | GloryHunter |
Why is twitter writing so tiny? Is it to stop older people reading it? |  | | |
| Great thread on twitter regarding QPR financial situation on 23:10 - Apr 3 with 6988 views | londonscottish |
F88k me. That is the first intelligent thing I have ever see coming out of Twitter.
And very encouraging.
(was that really from Twitter??) |  |
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| Great thread on twitter regarding QPR financial situation on 23:20 - Apr 3 with 6947 views | Bakes |
| Great thread on twitter regarding QPR financial situation on 23:10 - Apr 3 by londonscottish |
F88k me. That is the first intelligent thing I have ever see coming out of Twitter.
And very encouraging.
(was that really from Twitter??) |
Yes really was from Twitter.
We really do have a very very good CEO. | |
| With Faith And Courage Comes Glory |
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| Great thread on twitter regarding QPR financial situation on 00:04 - Apr 4 with 6802 views | isawqpratwcity |
Great work from Swiss Ramble, thanks. (Can I get some Toblerone duty-free, next time?)
Kudos, too, to Tony and the board for deciding the club couldn't go on the way it was before, and making the all changes they did: obviously Hoos top of the list, but also Ferdinand and then Ramsey, Hasselbaink and Holloway for trying hard on a very tight budget.
Oh, and an extra mention for Ramsey and the others for the way we're getting decent youngsters coming through.
Prospects still look lean for the middle future as parachute payments are currently such a sizeable chunk of our income. It's not going to be easy. |  |
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| Great thread on twitter regarding QPR financial situation on 01:02 - Apr 4 with 6729 views | BrianMcCarthy |
| Great thread on twitter regarding QPR financial situation on 00:04 - Apr 4 by isawqpratwcity |
Great work from Swiss Ramble, thanks. (Can I get some Toblerone duty-free, next time?)
Kudos, too, to Tony and the board for deciding the club couldn't go on the way it was before, and making the all changes they did: obviously Hoos top of the list, but also Ferdinand and then Ramsey, Hasselbaink and Holloway for trying hard on a very tight budget.
Oh, and an extra mention for Ramsey and the others for the way we're getting decent youngsters coming through.
Prospects still look lean for the middle future as parachute payments are currently such a sizeable chunk of our income. It's not going to be easy. |
Yes, agree with all of that. |  |
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| Great thread on twitter regarding QPR financial situation on 02:00 - Apr 4 with 6669 views | rsonist |
Doing very well but it's going to be tight. We've cut more cloth since these figures but there's little left to trim now you'd imagine. Likely to be some pain to come -we already knew we'd have to accept big bids for any players moving forward but it's doubtful whether we'll have the breathing space to resist/negotiate mediocre bids.
Not that we were really misled particularly but £15m for the 16/17 transfers is a sight more than we allowed ourselves to believe at the time. |  | | |
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| Great thread on twitter regarding QPR financial situation on 02:04 - Apr 4 with 6666 views | rsonist |
By the by I was curious about Norwich's impressive £15m commercial revenue, which throws up an interesting tidbit. Over half our total equivalent revenue just from catering...! | | | |
| Great thread on twitter regarding QPR financial situation on 02:30 - Apr 4 with 6642 views | Benny_the_Ball |
Encouraging to see the tanker being slowly turned around although worried that much of this is down to parachute payments that will soon run out. Player sales could be key so we could be waving goodbye to a few gems this summer.
Great to see wages slashed; hopefully this trend will continue given the few remaining big contracts are due to expire this summer. If these players re-sign it must be on significantly reduced terms.
Very disappointed to see how little money went into infrastructure since Tony at al joined; Warren Farm really needs to happen to demonstrate commitment to putting foundations in place.
And whilst we're on the subject let's finally put a hotly debated topic to bed - QPR are in debt. Admittedly it's now £50m after capitalising £193m of debt in 2016 and writing off £60m in 2014; however it's still a significant sum.
One area that caught my eye is the high rates of interest being charged on shareholder loans. Why are their rates so high and how much longer will they accept repayment in equity instead of cash? |  | | |
| Great thread on twitter regarding QPR financial situation on 03:01 - Apr 4 with 6618 views | timcocking |
So long story short, we're fcuked might as well give up now. |  | | |
| Great thread on twitter regarding QPR financial situation on 03:07 - Apr 4 with 6606 views | isawqpratwcity |
| Great thread on twitter regarding QPR financial situation on 01:02 - Apr 4 by BrianMcCarthy |
Yes, agree with all of that. |
I ain't sharing the Toblerone! | |
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| Great thread on twitter regarding QPR financial situation on 04:07 - Apr 4 with 6576 views | smegma |
Why is EVERYTHING repeated on tw@tter ??? |  | | |
| Great thread on twitter regarding QPR financial situation on 07:21 - Apr 4 with 6346 views | distortR |
| Great thread on twitter regarding QPR financial situation on 04:07 - Apr 4 by smegma |
Why is EVERYTHING repeated on tw@tter ??? |
yes, why is EVERYTHING repeated on tw@tter??? | | | |
| Great thread on twitter regarding QPR financial situation on 07:51 - Apr 4 with 6180 views | PlanetHonneywood |
In summary, we had to spunk hundreds of millions to finally get the penny to drop. But we got there in the end!
As mentioned, notwithstanding the FFP, our next hurdle will be the end of the parachute payments. But as wage cutting is continuing, maybe we might just see the full effect lessened a bit.
However we look at it, then aside of a surprise return to the Prem next season, it looks like we're going to develop and sell. In essence, nowt wrong with that, as it's basically what we've done reasonably well over the decades. If we do it right - and there are some positive signs that we are - then it could yet be the 're'-making of us!
With a quarter of a billion lost alongside the waste of the increased revenues we earned, it remains a source of great angst that we've yet again, wasted the bounty of our good fortune, and are a little bit worse off than when we started. Hey-ho, onwards and upwards. |  |
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| Great thread on twitter regarding QPR financial situation on 08:29 - Apr 4 with 6045 views | CroydonCaptJack |
| Great thread on twitter regarding QPR financial situation on 03:01 - Apr 4 by timcocking |
So long story short, we're fcuked might as well give up now. |
That's the spirit. |  | | |
| Great thread on twitter regarding QPR financial situation on 09:08 - Apr 4 with 5966 views | philc |
"One area that caught my eye is the high rates of interest being charged on shareholder loans. Why are their rates so high and how much longer will they accept repayment in equity instead of cash?"
The interest rate charged is high, as there is a very high risk that the money will never be repaid.
We could probably get a loan at a lower interest rate, but both the loan and the interest will have to be repaid and if we missed a repayment there could be repercussions.
The main issue with the high interest rate being charged is that it is changed to the P/L account so will increase our loss, although whether interest is included in the FFP calculation I do not know.
The issue of how much longer the Directors are prepared to put money into the Club could potentially have an effect on the Club, look at Aston Villa, Sunderland etc, where the owners had stopped bank-rolling them. But that would be the same whether interest on the loans was changed or not. At least with the loans being capitalised the only way the owners can get any of their money back is by finding a buyer, they cannot call in the debt the same way as Wright did. | | | |
| Great thread on twitter regarding QPR financial situation on 10:16 - Apr 4 with 5863 views | DylanP |
A very good thread. Thanks for posting it and thanks to SwissRamble for all the information.
I have two questions (excuse my ignorance):
1. Who is SwissRamble and how does he/she have all this information and analysis?
2. Can someone explain to me what player amortization is?
Thanks |  |
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| Great thread on twitter regarding QPR financial situation on 10:31 - Apr 4 with 5819 views | CroydonCaptJack |
| Great thread on twitter regarding QPR financial situation on 10:16 - Apr 4 by DylanP |
A very good thread. Thanks for posting it and thanks to SwissRamble for all the information.
I have two questions (excuse my ignorance):
1. Who is SwissRamble and how does he/she have all this information and analysis?
2. Can someone explain to me what player amortization is?
Thanks |
I cant answer point 1 but player amortisation is basically spreading the cost of a players transfer fee over the life of his contract so as an example
We pay £9m for someone on a three year contract the amortization would be £3m per year. | | | |
| Great thread on twitter regarding QPR financial situation on 10:37 - Apr 4 with 5795 views | Maggsinho |
| Great thread on twitter regarding QPR financial situation on 10:31 - Apr 4 by CroydonCaptJack |
I cant answer point 1 but player amortisation is basically spreading the cost of a players transfer fee over the life of his contract so as an example
We pay £9m for someone on a three year contract the amortization would be £3m per year. |
Swiss Ramble is a guy called Kieron O'Connor, an accountant who blogs and tweets about football economics. All of the information is available via our accounts at Companies House. |  | | |
| Great thread on twitter regarding QPR financial situation on 10:44 - Apr 4 with 5758 views | Northernr |
| Great thread on twitter regarding QPR financial situation on 09:08 - Apr 4 by philc |
"One area that caught my eye is the high rates of interest being charged on shareholder loans. Why are their rates so high and how much longer will they accept repayment in equity instead of cash?"
The interest rate charged is high, as there is a very high risk that the money will never be repaid.
We could probably get a loan at a lower interest rate, but both the loan and the interest will have to be repaid and if we missed a repayment there could be repercussions.
The main issue with the high interest rate being charged is that it is changed to the P/L account so will increase our loss, although whether interest is included in the FFP calculation I do not know.
The issue of how much longer the Directors are prepared to put money into the Club could potentially have an effect on the Club, look at Aston Villa, Sunderland etc, where the owners had stopped bank-rolling them. But that would be the same whether interest on the loans was changed or not. At least with the loans being capitalised the only way the owners can get any of their money back is by finding a buyer, they cannot call in the debt the same way as Wright did. |
Except that, at the moment, the interest isn't being paid, it's just converting into shares, which is why Ruben's shareholding is increasing and Tony's is decreasing. | | | |
| Great thread on twitter regarding QPR financial situation on 10:52 - Apr 4 with 5731 views | hopphoops |
My six knee jerks:
1. What a labour of love by Swiss Ramble.
2. There's only one Lee Hoos.
3. Our 30m wages in 16/17 were only 64% of income, but 140% of income-minus-parachute payment. Does anyone have a guess at player wages for 17/18? For 18/19 a realistic target might be 18m (85% of post-parachute income).
4. Norwich cook the books two ways; their owner is the only person in Norfolk to have discovered fire, there's nowhere else to go for a hot meal; and they haven't yet discovered cotton or colours other than yellow.
5. Reading the tweets in a Swiss Tony voice is impossible.
6. Er that's it; Antti your job is safe. |  |
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| Great thread on twitter regarding QPR financial situation on 11:47 - Apr 4 with 5648 views | isawqpratwcity |
| Great thread on twitter regarding QPR financial situation on 10:44 - Apr 4 by Northernr |
Except that, at the moment, the interest isn't being paid, it's just converting into shares, which is why Ruben's shareholding is increasing and Tony's is decreasing. |
And just to get to the nub of the concern at the heart of philc's post, the conversion of the interest payable to shares means that the rate may seem exorbitant to us, but it's not in that it affects only the shareholders, and at a much lesser rate due to the much lower value of the club compared to the nominal value of the shares and even more accommodating in that no cash for interest charged changes hands until a sale of shares occurs.
As Lee Hoos said at a supporters' meeting, if anybody wants to lend money to the club on more favourable terms, he is willing to talk to them. [Post edited 4 Apr 2018 11:48]
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| Great thread on twitter regarding QPR financial situation on 11:58 - Apr 4 with 5606 views | LythamR |
| Great thread on twitter regarding QPR financial situation on 11:47 - Apr 4 by isawqpratwcity |
And just to get to the nub of the concern at the heart of philc's post, the conversion of the interest payable to shares means that the rate may seem exorbitant to us, but it's not in that it affects only the shareholders, and at a much lesser rate due to the much lower value of the club compared to the nominal value of the shares and even more accommodating in that no cash for interest charged changes hands until a sale of shares occurs.
As Lee Hoos said at a supporters' meeting, if anybody wants to lend money to the club on more favourable terms, he is willing to talk to them. [Post edited 4 Apr 2018 11:48]
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I am assuming that the high rate of interest charged is a mechanism to further reduce the shareholding% of minority shareholders |  | | |
| Great thread on twitter regarding QPR financial situation on 12:16 - Apr 4 with 5562 views | Hunterhoop |
| Great thread on twitter regarding QPR financial situation on 10:52 - Apr 4 by hopphoops |
My six knee jerks:
1. What a labour of love by Swiss Ramble.
2. There's only one Lee Hoos.
3. Our 30m wages in 16/17 were only 64% of income, but 140% of income-minus-parachute payment. Does anyone have a guess at player wages for 17/18? For 18/19 a realistic target might be 18m (85% of post-parachute income).
4. Norwich cook the books two ways; their owner is the only person in Norfolk to have discovered fire, there's nowhere else to go for a hot meal; and they haven't yet discovered cotton or colours other than yellow.
5. Reading the tweets in a Swiss Tony voice is impossible.
6. Er that's it; Antti your job is safe. |
Two things:
1) I assumed Swiss Ramble was Swisscottage who used to post on here about 10 years ago. Part of the Ron, Simon crowd.
2) I reckon Norwich's "commercial earnings" are linked to Delia. I wonder if they have shares somehow in her books, TV, etc earnings, and get to reap a % reward as a way of Delia avoiding some income tax but still being able to "give" the club a ton of cash. If 20% of her earnings went to Norwich, just like a % will go to her agent, she won't have to pay income tax on it. If she gifted the club cash, she'd have paid income tax on it. Not sure how you legally set it up, but I'd wager it's some sort of arrangement like that. |  | | |
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