| End of term report 20/21 — Attack on 19:59 - May 25 with 3297 views | terryb |
Thanks Clive.
It's now time for you to put your feet up until the fixtures are released.
Unless we make any more signings prior to the opening of the transfer window! |  | |  |
| End of term report 20/21 — Attack on 20:13 - May 25 with 3258 views | Northernr |
| End of term report 20/21 — Attack on 19:59 - May 25 by terryb |
Thanks Clive.
It's now time for you to put your feet up until the fixtures are released.
Unless we make any more signings prior to the opening of the transfer window! |
One more coming, post play-off final, going to revisit the Pre-season preview see who we called right and wrong. |  | | |
| End of term report 20/21 — Attack on 20:56 - May 25 with 3139 views | aston_hoop |
Thanks for these, really enjoy them and great detail.
One question though that I'll open to everyone, and thats about Chris Willock's lack of senior appearances before coming to us. Benfica B play in the Portuguese second divison which is a senior league. Sure it aint quite the Championship or maybe even League 2, but it is. Plus he was their top scorer in the 18/19 season under the bloke who is about to become Wolves boss. Does that not count as senior football? |  |
| |
| End of term report 20/21 — Attack on 22:08 - May 25 with 2950 views | M40R |
Great read and thoroughly done. Can't wait to next season. | | | |
| End of term report 20/21 — Attack on 08:22 - May 26 with 2534 views | mcqpr10 |
Find it incredible that Shodipo would go on loan- career on a knife edge needing to prove himself and for him to be chronically late. | | | |
| End of term report 20/21 — Attack on 09:11 - May 26 with 2466 views | BrianMcCarthy |
Rarely you and I disagree, Clive, but as you know I'm not as high on Austin's performances as you are.
I would give him a B, for the following reasons:
1) In the 24 games he was available to us (three missed for an incredibly stupid suspension) he scored 8 goals, that's 1 in 3, not 1 in 2.
2) Only 1 assist.
3) Passing often really poor, though occasionally excellent.
4) I think he only finished 2 games, that's terrible. I worry about a 31-yr old who can't/won't get match-fit in four months of training, and looked happy coming off the pitch on the hour mark while leaving his team-mates to secure the three points.
5) Because B is still a very good mark, and for all the other valid reasons you rightly catalogue he does deserve a very good mark. |  |
| |
| End of term report 20/21 — Attack on 11:37 - May 26 with 2298 views | PhilmyRs |
| End of term report 20/21 — Attack on 09:11 - May 26 by BrianMcCarthy |
Rarely you and I disagree, Clive, but as you know I'm not as high on Austin's performances as you are.
I would give him a B, for the following reasons:
1) In the 24 games he was available to us (three missed for an incredibly stupid suspension) he scored 8 goals, that's 1 in 3, not 1 in 2.
2) Only 1 assist.
3) Passing often really poor, though occasionally excellent.
4) I think he only finished 2 games, that's terrible. I worry about a 31-yr old who can't/won't get match-fit in four months of training, and looked happy coming off the pitch on the hour mark while leaving his team-mates to secure the three points.
5) Because B is still a very good mark, and for all the other valid reasons you rightly catalogue he does deserve a very good mark. |
Id agree with a B too and most of the summary.
On point 4, I think it's a bit unfrair to say he "looked happy coming off the pitch on the hour mark while leaving his team-mates to secure the three points". Quite a few times I saw a man that looked a bit peed to be taken off and definitely on one occassion he looked genuinely angry and close to saying something to Warbs. I think the options on the bench, switch in systems/formaitons, also meant Austin was always liable to be subbed later in the game regardless of fitness. I think in other circumstances he would have definitely played more 90 mins.
Given his impact off the field and how he built up Dyke's confidence and just transformed the mood around the place, I can see how a generous A was awarded. But I agree his performances weren't A standard though. In contrast, Johansen's most certaintly were and justified the A rating. | | | |
| End of term report 20/21 — Attack on 12:10 - May 26 with 2242 views | Antti_Heinola |
| End of term report 20/21 — Attack on 09:11 - May 26 by BrianMcCarthy |
Rarely you and I disagree, Clive, but as you know I'm not as high on Austin's performances as you are.
I would give him a B, for the following reasons:
1) In the 24 games he was available to us (three missed for an incredibly stupid suspension) he scored 8 goals, that's 1 in 3, not 1 in 2.
2) Only 1 assist.
3) Passing often really poor, though occasionally excellent.
4) I think he only finished 2 games, that's terrible. I worry about a 31-yr old who can't/won't get match-fit in four months of training, and looked happy coming off the pitch on the hour mark while leaving his team-mates to secure the three points.
5) Because B is still a very good mark, and for all the other valid reasons you rightly catalogue he does deserve a very good mark. |
In agreement with Phil there, Bri.
I don't think he was always being taken off because he needed to come off, it was more because of a weight of games and managing your resources. Keep him on for 90, and risk not being able to start him three days later. Now, obviously that's not ideal, but remember he's not played regularly for a while before coming to us. If he's coming and playing and afecting us positively, you want him firing as close to full tilt as you can as much as you can. That is, of course, about fitness, but also about looking after your resources.
'A' is possibly a bit high, but his impact was so great, it's not a big issue for me. |  |
| |
Login to get fewer ads
| End of term report 20/21 — Attack on 12:19 - May 26 with 2221 views | rsonist |
| End of term report 20/21 — Attack on 12:10 - May 26 by Antti_Heinola |
In agreement with Phil there, Bri.
I don't think he was always being taken off because he needed to come off, it was more because of a weight of games and managing your resources. Keep him on for 90, and risk not being able to start him three days later. Now, obviously that's not ideal, but remember he's not played regularly for a while before coming to us. If he's coming and playing and afecting us positively, you want him firing as close to full tilt as you can as much as you can. That is, of course, about fitness, but also about looking after your resources.
'A' is possibly a bit high, but his impact was so great, it's not a big issue for me. |
Bit chicken and egg isn't it. Clearly he was the most managed resource because he was the resource that needed managing the most. |  | | |
| End of term report 20/21 — Attack on 12:27 - May 26 with 2208 views | daveB |
| End of term report 20/21 — Attack on 09:11 - May 26 by BrianMcCarthy |
Rarely you and I disagree, Clive, but as you know I'm not as high on Austin's performances as you are.
I would give him a B, for the following reasons:
1) In the 24 games he was available to us (three missed for an incredibly stupid suspension) he scored 8 goals, that's 1 in 3, not 1 in 2.
2) Only 1 assist.
3) Passing often really poor, though occasionally excellent.
4) I think he only finished 2 games, that's terrible. I worry about a 31-yr old who can't/won't get match-fit in four months of training, and looked happy coming off the pitch on the hour mark while leaving his team-mates to secure the three points.
5) Because B is still a very good mark, and for all the other valid reasons you rightly catalogue he does deserve a very good mark. |
Austin made such a difference to the team and the club. I'm not so bothered about the number of assists but his presence on the pitch alone made such a difference to the team, we'd have finished bottom 6 without him imo
As for not finishing 90 mins, that was surely to keep him fresh, more likely to pick up muscle injuries late in games so wanted him available every week rather than risk losing him for 4/5 games. |  | | |
| End of term report 20/21 — Attack on 12:28 - May 26 with 2197 views | rsonist |
"looked happy coming off while leaving his team-mates to secure" was a bit toothy of Brian in fairness :)
Would also add his mentor transformation also seemed fanciful at the time because he'd always seemed an awkward, almost disruptive character fit at Southampton, who are more similar to us now than all the other dressing rooms he'd been a part of. [Post edited 26 May 2021 21:35]
| | | |
| End of term report 20/21 — Attack on 13:16 - May 26 with 2123 views | Wegerles_Stairs |
| End of term report 20/21 — Attack on 12:27 - May 26 by daveB |
Austin made such a difference to the team and the club. I'm not so bothered about the number of assists but his presence on the pitch alone made such a difference to the team, we'd have finished bottom 6 without him imo
As for not finishing 90 mins, that was surely to keep him fresh, more likely to pick up muscle injuries late in games so wanted him available every week rather than risk losing him for 4/5 games. |
Yep, deserves an A for completely regenerating our season from that first match and goal against Luton. It's worth remembering just how crap things were going before that match.
Yes, he misplaces the odd pass and he's not as quick as he was when he was with us before but the guy knows how to score goals and will do so again next season, along with helping others with his positive attitude. Can't wait to see him live in a Rangers shirt again. | | | |
| End of term report 20/21 — Attack on 13:28 - May 26 with 2093 views | simmo |
It's a tough decision and there's always some nuance to consider with ratings, so I don't pay too much attention to A's or B's, etc. Overall as a talisman and culture shifter/definer, he's been an absolutely incredible signing and worthy of the highest rating. There was a specific cross near the end of the season from Kakay that wasn't converted by Dykes, but instantly there was a big shout and thumb up from Austin, letting him know that it's appreciated and to try and maintain that kind of contribution. I would imagine that's massive for a player like Ossie coming from a proven pro like Charlie- we shouldn't undervalue those little things
On the pitch he's been very good, not *incredible*, but about as good as you can expect from a January loan signing, fulfilling the very specific need we had to just be in the right place to score whilst giving belief to everybody else around him. Not just that, but being loud, assertive, vocal to teammates and officials, etc.
The fitness and availability is a very valid point though, he's only 31 but is already being managed like he's 35. You would hope that if we do sign him he gets a proper pre-season and the medical team get him on a strict regime that he sticks to, hopefully that helps as not being able to consistently do 90mins is not good enough for whatever contract we will be offering to get him.
B and a half  |  |
| ask Beavis I get nothing Butthead |
| |
| End of term report 20/21 — Attack on 13:51 - May 26 with 2053 views | BrianMcCarthy |
Some very valid points.
Perhaps you're all correct that with a pre-season under his belt and in a non-Covid season he would be able to finish more games. Sounds logical to me.
And perhaps he deserves a slight upgrade for his impact on this particular season. I think we had turned the corner three games before his arrival with the formation change but the arrival of the loan players definitely added hugely to that push up the table.
But put it this way, if we signed Austin and he carried his form into next season it would translate to 15 goals and 2 assists over 46 games, two red cards, six games suspended and four games completed. That's not an A season and perhaps not even a B season. So he would have to improve on both the above points to make such a costly signing a success. | |
| |
| End of term report 20/21 — Attack on 14:00 - May 26 with 2040 views | daveB |
| End of term report 20/21 — Attack on 13:51 - May 26 by BrianMcCarthy |
Some very valid points.
Perhaps you're all correct that with a pre-season under his belt and in a non-Covid season he would be able to finish more games. Sounds logical to me.
And perhaps he deserves a slight upgrade for his impact on this particular season. I think we had turned the corner three games before his arrival with the formation change but the arrival of the loan players definitely added hugely to that push up the table.
But put it this way, if we signed Austin and he carried his form into next season it would translate to 15 goals and 2 assists over 46 games, two red cards, six games suspended and four games completed. That's not an A season and perhaps not even a B season. So he would have to improve on both the above points to make such a costly signing a success. |
If he signs and gets 15 goals thats a very good season imo. When he was at his peak with us he only got 21 in the championship | | | |
| End of term report 20/21 — Attack on 14:05 - May 26 with 2032 views | BrianMcCarthy |
| End of term report 20/21 — Attack on 14:00 - May 26 by daveB |
If he signs and gets 15 goals thats a very good season imo. When he was at his peak with us he only got 21 in the championship |
I agree 15 would be decent, Dave. Just not an A.
A is Adel Taarabt.*
*This is not the start of a Sesame Street song. | |
| |
| End of term report 20/21 — Attack on 14:05 - May 26 with 2027 views | Northernr |
| End of term report 20/21 — Attack on 09:11 - May 26 by BrianMcCarthy |
Rarely you and I disagree, Clive, but as you know I'm not as high on Austin's performances as you are.
I would give him a B, for the following reasons:
1) In the 24 games he was available to us (three missed for an incredibly stupid suspension) he scored 8 goals, that's 1 in 3, not 1 in 2.
2) Only 1 assist.
3) Passing often really poor, though occasionally excellent.
4) I think he only finished 2 games, that's terrible. I worry about a 31-yr old who can't/won't get match-fit in four months of training, and looked happy coming off the pitch on the hour mark while leaving his team-mates to secure the three points.
5) Because B is still a very good mark, and for all the other valid reasons you rightly catalogue he does deserve a very good mark. |
I actually agree with you on your points. (I know we discussed this at the weekend but we'll definitely next season do a podcast for the Patreon with a few of us talking about these marks, because behind the curtain we do this in the crown at the last match and it always turns into a great debate/huge row).
He gets an A because...
Originally, we thought the idea was 'bring him in, he'll score six or seven goals, win us 15 points, keep us up'. That was the brief, and he fulfilled it. If I say stand over there and catch this ball I'm throwing at you 30 times, and you stand there and catch it 30 times, and I give you a B, that's pretty harsh.
In addition, he's contributed a huge amount more. We were talking at Christmas about how quiet and meek the team is, you wouldn't say that now and he's a big part of that. We've seen the development of Dykes, which he's been a big part of, which I personally never expected he would.
While sharing your concerns, and I want him fitter and doing longer minutes next season, I think it's a very different 20/21 without him. | | | |
| End of term report 20/21 — Attack on 14:10 - May 26 with 2004 views | PhilmyRs |
| End of term report 20/21 — Attack on 14:00 - May 26 by daveB |
If he signs and gets 15 goals thats a very good season imo. When he was at his peak with us he only got 21 in the championship |
Yep, I'd be ok with 15 goals.
Also, I'd be interested in what Austin's goals to minutes ratio is for us. If you take the view with a full pre-season under his belt, combined with an enhanced fitness regime, he'll likely finish more games, you have to assume the goals will increase too - see Brentford game and the late winner.
Basically the goals to game ratio with Austin is a bit distored as the Management protected him and he rarely completed a match so you can probably add some goals on the total if (fingers crossed) he starts getting a full 90. | | | |
| End of term report 20/21 — Attack on 14:11 - May 26 with 2002 views | BrianMcCarthy |
| End of term report 20/21 — Attack on 14:05 - May 26 by Northernr |
I actually agree with you on your points. (I know we discussed this at the weekend but we'll definitely next season do a podcast for the Patreon with a few of us talking about these marks, because behind the curtain we do this in the crown at the last match and it always turns into a great debate/huge row).
He gets an A because...
Originally, we thought the idea was 'bring him in, he'll score six or seven goals, win us 15 points, keep us up'. That was the brief, and he fulfilled it. If I say stand over there and catch this ball I'm throwing at you 30 times, and you stand there and catch it 30 times, and I give you a B, that's pretty harsh.
In addition, he's contributed a huge amount more. We were talking at Christmas about how quiet and meek the team is, you wouldn't say that now and he's a big part of that. We've seen the development of Dykes, which he's been a big part of, which I personally never expected he would.
While sharing your concerns, and I want him fitter and doing longer minutes next season, I think it's a very different 20/21 without him. |
Ya, that's all very fair.
Ok, put it this way then: if this was his last season and he was retiring, I'd say "No problem, have an A, and here's a pint of Guinness and here's a hug as well, you ol' dote". But if he's coming back for next season I'd say "Here's a B, Charles, but no Guinness for you, you're not the slimmest as it is and you've already been sent off once". | |
| |
| End of term report 20/21 — Attack on 14:12 - May 26 with 1992 views | TheChef |
| End of term report 20/21 — Attack on 14:05 - May 26 by Northernr |
I actually agree with you on your points. (I know we discussed this at the weekend but we'll definitely next season do a podcast for the Patreon with a few of us talking about these marks, because behind the curtain we do this in the crown at the last match and it always turns into a great debate/huge row).
He gets an A because...
Originally, we thought the idea was 'bring him in, he'll score six or seven goals, win us 15 points, keep us up'. That was the brief, and he fulfilled it. If I say stand over there and catch this ball I'm throwing at you 30 times, and you stand there and catch it 30 times, and I give you a B, that's pretty harsh.
In addition, he's contributed a huge amount more. We were talking at Christmas about how quiet and meek the team is, you wouldn't say that now and he's a big part of that. We've seen the development of Dykes, which he's been a big part of, which I personally never expected he would.
While sharing your concerns, and I want him fitter and doing longer minutes next season, I think it's a very different 20/21 without him. |
Yes it was as much about not taking sh1t from the oppo or the ref and doing something to transform us from a bunch of nice boys, let alone the goals, which made a difference.
Probably another reason why we could use him permanently next season, unless his attitude has rubbed off on the others. Otherwise I'm concerned we'll revert to our usual meek and mild selves. |  |
| |
| End of term report 20/21 — Attack on 14:16 - May 26 with 1970 views | strikerace |
| End of term report 20/21 — Attack on 09:11 - May 26 by BrianMcCarthy |
Rarely you and I disagree, Clive, but as you know I'm not as high on Austin's performances as you are.
I would give him a B, for the following reasons:
1) In the 24 games he was available to us (three missed for an incredibly stupid suspension) he scored 8 goals, that's 1 in 3, not 1 in 2.
2) Only 1 assist.
3) Passing often really poor, though occasionally excellent.
4) I think he only finished 2 games, that's terrible. I worry about a 31-yr old who can't/won't get match-fit in four months of training, and looked happy coming off the pitch on the hour mark while leaving his team-mates to secure the three points.
5) Because B is still a very good mark, and for all the other valid reasons you rightly catalogue he does deserve a very good mark. |
Austin scored 8 goals in 1,430 minutes of play, thats a goal every .5 matches or 1 every 2). Say what you want that was best on QPR, Dykes being 2nd a .35. I think its unfair to lump his games he didn't even play due to a red card, or minutes after he was subbed out. He wasn't on the pitch.
Lets be fair. If he has the same next season he will clear 20 goals for sure, its not likely he gets another red card. Add in he is a great teammate, a great influence on the players, and yes I give him an A too. We needed a force upfront and that is what he brought | | | |
| End of term report 20/21 — Attack on 14:33 - May 26 with 1912 views | BrianMcCarthy |
| End of term report 20/21 — Attack on 14:16 - May 26 by strikerace |
Austin scored 8 goals in 1,430 minutes of play, thats a goal every .5 matches or 1 every 2). Say what you want that was best on QPR, Dykes being 2nd a .35. I think its unfair to lump his games he didn't even play due to a red card, or minutes after he was subbed out. He wasn't on the pitch.
Lets be fair. If he has the same next season he will clear 20 goals for sure, its not likely he gets another red card. Add in he is a great teammate, a great influence on the players, and yes I give him an A too. We needed a force upfront and that is what he brought |
"I think its unfair to lump his games he didn't even play due to a red card, or minutes after he was subbed out. He wasn't on the pitch."
I don't think it is unfair. We have to be accurate about this. The suspension was his fault, and he would also have played far more minutes if his fitness was better, which is a personal responsibility. It hasn't looked great in the last few years, it wasn't great this year and it's surely debatable as to whether it'll be better next year.
Either way, for various reasons, mostly of his own making he didn't score a goal every second game, he scored one every third game. I could see that increasing if he had a solid pre-season, but I can also envisage a scenario where his fitness continues to decline as it has been for some time now. It's a risk. | |
| |
| End of term report 20/21 — Attack on 16:22 - May 26 with 1749 views | daveB |
I don't get the criticism of his fitness. When he came the worry was he'd be injured all the time but he was available for every match, he wasn't being taken off as he was knackered or blowing out of his arse it was Warburton being protective same as he is with Chair who also gets taken off in most games | | | |
| End of term report 20/21 — Attack on 16:34 - May 26 with 1730 views | CliveWilsonSaid |
| End of term report 20/21 — Attack on 14:33 - May 26 by BrianMcCarthy |
"I think its unfair to lump his games he didn't even play due to a red card, or minutes after he was subbed out. He wasn't on the pitch."
I don't think it is unfair. We have to be accurate about this. The suspension was his fault, and he would also have played far more minutes if his fitness was better, which is a personal responsibility. It hasn't looked great in the last few years, it wasn't great this year and it's surely debatable as to whether it'll be better next year.
Either way, for various reasons, mostly of his own making he didn't score a goal every second game, he scored one every third game. I could see that increasing if he had a solid pre-season, but I can also envisage a scenario where his fitness continues to decline as it has been for some time now. It's a risk. |
Well the fitness issues with Charlie Austin could well have been down to a loss of motivation before he came. It's very easy for us to call a player unprofessional but none of us really understand what it's like or what they're going through. Sure they're paid handsomely but being on the first team fringes of a struggling Premier League side during a pandemic might not be as easy as it seems.
I remember Warburton saying in an interview about what a good professional he's been since he's been here. Also Charlie talking about having a 'fire in his belly' again and preferring the week in week out schedule of the Championship.
I'm not sure I remember you being this critical of a player before Brian! I'd grade his season with us as a 7 btw 
Having said that I agree with you it is a risk. |  |
| |
| |
By continuing to use the site, you agree to our use of cookies and to abide by our Terms and Conditions.
. 