| End of term report 20/21 — Attack on 16:48 - May 26 with 1615 views | PinnerPaul |
Enough of this A or B malarkey, when is he signing?  |  | |  |
| End of term report 20/21 — Attack on 16:48 - May 26 with 1612 views | rsonist |
| End of term report 20/21 — Attack on 16:22 - May 26 by daveB |
I don't get the criticism of his fitness. When he came the worry was he'd be injured all the time but he was available for every match, he wasn't being taken off as he was knackered or blowing out of his arse it was Warburton being protective same as he is with Chair who also gets taken off in most games |
Chair played 85% of all available minutes this season, the most for a non-defender. |  | | |
| End of term report 20/21 — Attack on 17:26 - May 26 with 1555 views | daveB |
| End of term report 20/21 — Attack on 16:48 - May 26 by rsonist |
Chair played 85% of all available minutes this season, the most for a non-defender. |
wouldn't dispute that, had a quick look in case I was going mad but he was taken off in most games.
From when Austin arrived Chair started 21 games and was taken off in 15 of them. It's not really a fitness thing it's how Warburton eases the load as he calls it and keeps players available to start every game |  | | |
| End of term report 20/21 — Attack on 17:37 - May 26 with 1529 views | francisbowles |
| End of term report 20/21 — Attack on 17:26 - May 26 by daveB |
wouldn't dispute that, had a quick look in case I was going mad but he was taken off in most games.
From when Austin arrived Chair started 21 games and was taken off in 15 of them. It's not really a fitness thing it's how Warburton eases the load as he calls it and keeps players available to start every game |
Talking of tactical and injury avoiding substitutes, is the Championship definitely returning to three subs from five (or whatever it was before this season) in August? | | | |
| End of term report 20/21 — Attack on 17:42 - May 26 with 1514 views | robith |
I will happily say I was immensely sceptical about Charlie returning - I recall him playing us for WBA the previous season and he didn't look like he gave a solitary sh!t - though that was hard to gauge in between his poor looking fitness. He'd also had a few barneys with fans on social on the way out of QPR, that I thought had maybe soured the relationship. Yeah I got the tingles when I saw him in the shirt but it was all a bit hmmmm
What I'd massively underestimated was how acutely aware of the standing he is held in here, and how much him coming back was making a statement. He knew what it meant to return, and more importantly, he wanted that pressure.
Genuinely, never been happier to be wrong [Post edited 26 May 2021 18:21]
|  | | |
| End of term report 20/21 — Attack on 18:03 - May 26 with 1485 views | QPR_Jim |
| End of term report 20/21 — Attack on 17:42 - May 26 by robith |
I will happily say I was immensely sceptical about Charlie returning - I recall him playing us for WBA the previous season and he didn't look like he gave a solitary sh!t - though that was hard to gauge in between his poor looking fitness. He'd also had a few barneys with fans on social on the way out of QPR, that I thought had maybe soured the relationship. Yeah I got the tingles when I saw him in the shirt but it was all a bit hmmmm
What I'd massively underestimated was how acutely aware of the standing he is held in here, and how much him coming back was making a statement. He knew what it meant to return, and more importantly, he wanted that pressure.
Genuinely, never been happier to be wrong [Post edited 26 May 2021 18:21]
|
Well put, I was certainly of a similar mindset and happily surprised.
Just to add that the end of term reports have been a great read and I can't wait to see what the summer brings for the club. |  | | |
| End of term report 20/21 — Attack on 19:13 - May 26 with 1445 views | rsonist |
| End of term report 20/21 — Attack on 17:26 - May 26 by daveB |
wouldn't dispute that, had a quick look in case I was going mad but he was taken off in most games.
From when Austin arrived Chair started 21 games and was taken off in 15 of them. It's not really a fitness thing it's how Warburton eases the load as he calls it and keeps players available to start every game |
Like I said to Antti, the load is eased because it needs easing. Just because others get subbed in games too (Chair at least 15 minutes later every time FWIW, with two games off all season) doesn't prove that actually Chaz is fit as a butchers. It's not a narrative, he is often visibly tiring by that point.
I don't have any problem with it really, it actually suits us quite well tactically and development-wise I'd argue, and it's missing the point of him anyway. But arguing that Chaz is par for stamina you'd expect of a 31 yr old player is cobblers, sorry. | | | |
| End of term report 20/21 — Attack on 19:24 - May 26 with 1431 views | rsonist |
Very well said re the dismal hounding of Flo by the way.
You can tell how completely disingenuous and motivated by lib-owning the whole thing is when they kept trying to nail her saying CA was out of shape for "body shaming"... | | | |
Login to get fewer ads
| End of term report 20/21 — Attack on 21:21 - May 26 with 1349 views | daveB |
| End of term report 20/21 — Attack on 19:13 - May 26 by rsonist |
Like I said to Antti, the load is eased because it needs easing. Just because others get subbed in games too (Chair at least 15 minutes later every time FWIW, with two games off all season) doesn't prove that actually Chaz is fit as a butchers. It's not a narrative, he is often visibly tiring by that point.
I don't have any problem with it really, it actually suits us quite well tactically and development-wise I'd argue, and it's missing the point of him anyway. But arguing that Chaz is par for stamina you'd expect of a 31 yr old player is cobblers, sorry. |
not sure i was arguing that, just said his fitness hasn't been an issue since he came back. I'm not sure what par stamina is to be honest, he played in virtually every game when playing 3 days apart for most of his spell with us so he can't be that unfit | | | |
| End of term report 20/21 — Attack on 21:30 - May 26 with 1334 views | Dorse |
| End of term report 20/21 — Attack on 21:21 - May 26 by daveB |
not sure i was arguing that, just said his fitness hasn't been an issue since he came back. I'm not sure what par stamina is to be honest, he played in virtually every game when playing 3 days apart for most of his spell with us so he can't be that unfit |
Wish I was that unfit. |  |
| 'What do we want? We don't know! When do we want it? Now!' |
| |
| End of term report 20/21 — Attack on 21:50 - May 26 with 1300 views | BrianMcCarthy |
| End of term report 20/21 — Attack on 16:34 - May 26 by CliveWilsonSaid |
Well the fitness issues with Charlie Austin could well have been down to a loss of motivation before he came. It's very easy for us to call a player unprofessional but none of us really understand what it's like or what they're going through. Sure they're paid handsomely but being on the first team fringes of a struggling Premier League side during a pandemic might not be as easy as it seems.
I remember Warburton saying in an interview about what a good professional he's been since he's been here. Also Charlie talking about having a 'fire in his belly' again and preferring the week in week out schedule of the Championship.
I'm not sure I remember you being this critical of a player before Brian! I'd grade his season with us as a 7 btw 
Having said that I agree with you it is a risk. |
"I'm not sure I remember you being this critical of a player before Brian! I'd grade his season with us as a 7 btw"
I don't think I'm being critical, Clive, or at least not over-critical.
I'm giving him a B, which sounds like being on a par with your 7. Both are damn good. |  |
| |
| End of term report 20/21 — Attack on 09:04 - May 27 with 1132 views | Blue_Castello |
| End of term report 20/21 — Attack on 14:05 - May 26 by Northernr |
I actually agree with you on your points. (I know we discussed this at the weekend but we'll definitely next season do a podcast for the Patreon with a few of us talking about these marks, because behind the curtain we do this in the crown at the last match and it always turns into a great debate/huge row).
He gets an A because...
Originally, we thought the idea was 'bring him in, he'll score six or seven goals, win us 15 points, keep us up'. That was the brief, and he fulfilled it. If I say stand over there and catch this ball I'm throwing at you 30 times, and you stand there and catch it 30 times, and I give you a B, that's pretty harsh.
In addition, he's contributed a huge amount more. We were talking at Christmas about how quiet and meek the team is, you wouldn't say that now and he's a big part of that. We've seen the development of Dykes, which he's been a big part of, which I personally never expected he would.
While sharing your concerns, and I want him fitter and doing longer minutes next season, I think it's a very different 20/21 without him. |
Exactly he gets an A not just for what he contributed in goals, assists and teamwork but his motivational contributions on and off the pitch.
It seems some people have forgotten about the performances in the months before January, we looked like a relegation team and we're heading for a relegation battle, Dykes was showing promise with his link up play but just couldn't score a goal, then we brought Charlie back home and it transformed Dykes into a striker who can score.
It was obvious in October /November that we needed good loan signings in January to turn our season around and they pulled the rabbit out of the hat getting Charlie back, both Austin and Johansen were top quality, transformed our season and deserve an A grade for that reason. | | | |
| End of term report 20/21 — Attack on 10:18 - May 27 with 1070 views | dannyblue |
| End of term report 20/21 — Attack on 09:04 - May 27 by Blue_Castello |
Exactly he gets an A not just for what he contributed in goals, assists and teamwork but his motivational contributions on and off the pitch.
It seems some people have forgotten about the performances in the months before January, we looked like a relegation team and we're heading for a relegation battle, Dykes was showing promise with his link up play but just couldn't score a goal, then we brought Charlie back home and it transformed Dykes into a striker who can score.
It was obvious in October /November that we needed good loan signings in January to turn our season around and they pulled the rabbit out of the hat getting Charlie back, both Austin and Johansen were top quality, transformed our season and deserve an A grade for that reason. |
Just to add a slightly different point...
Charlie doesn't look like he moves freely at all. He looks like I feel the morning after a game of football followed by a few beers. All stiff and angles and limited range of movement.
That's probably a legacy of his knee and shoulder injuries which have plagued him for years. Remember we only signed him first time around because he failed a medical at Hull.
Pilates or Yoga all summer might do wonders. |  | | |
| End of term report 20/21 — Attack on 10:23 - May 27 with 1064 views | TheChef |
| End of term report 20/21 — Attack on 10:18 - May 27 by dannyblue |
Just to add a slightly different point...
Charlie doesn't look like he moves freely at all. He looks like I feel the morning after a game of football followed by a few beers. All stiff and angles and limited range of movement.
That's probably a legacy of his knee and shoulder injuries which have plagued him for years. Remember we only signed him first time around because he failed a medical at Hull.
Pilates or Yoga all summer might do wonders. |
Hasn't he always moved like that? He has a very recognisable way of running!
I'm sure the injuries haven't helped either. |  |
| |
| End of term report 20/21 — Attack on 10:38 - May 27 with 1053 views | Myke |
Fascinating debate on Charlie Austin, which I have come rather late to, but would like to throw in my tuppence worth. While ostensibly the discussion is about whether Austin merits an A or B in his final grade, the real issue is simply what was his level of contribution since he arrived in January, up until the season's end and what are the risks in giving him a lengthy (2 years is 'lengthy' for a 31 year old in any circumstances) contract, at the top level of our wage structure (if not actually smashing it to pieces)?
I was one of those, while welcoming back from a 'heart' perspective, had serious reservations about his return from a 'head' point of view. He had done nothing since he left for Southampton either in the Prem or in the Championship with WBA, to suggest he would be the kind of saviour we needed or indeed was hyped to the nth degree on here and I'm sure on all other platforms, which I meticulously avoid. His signature smacked of desperation, his age tore our' buy young , develop, sell for profit' project into shreds. Also, the fact that Alladice was prepared to let him go and swallow an enormous portion of his wages, despite the position they were in, with only one recognised striker, spoke volumes of the status Austin had dropped to since banging in 18 Premiership goals (and missed two penalties) in a crap team that was comfortably relegated.
This could easily have gone two ways, he could have been buried under the weight of expectation and limped off against Luton after an anonymous half-an-hour with a hamstring injury, never to be seen again.
Or what actually happened. Clive preview headline for that game v Luton; 'When A Hero Comes Along', was setting us all up for a calamitous fall, but instead became the headline for his match report as well, as Austin nodded us in front with a trademark 'movement to make space' (or shocking defending - take your pick) to set us up for our first win since I was in short trousers. I agree, with Brian, the seeds for our improvement had been evident for a couple of games before that. Norwich away - which was pivotal to Warburton keeping his job - and Fulham in the cup. But we couldn't stick the ball in the bloody net, no matter how well we played. Now we had, and, more importantly, we had the belief that we COULD, whenever we attacked dangerously. 'Dangerous' suddenly became 'potent' and the sense of relief, all the way to my remote abode in the west of Ireland, was palpable, among the fans, management, and most significantly, the players themselves.
Did Austin single-handedly drag us from 20th to 9th? No of course he didn't. he had nothing to do with Wallace's almost miraculous transformation from joke defender to the best left-wing back in the division, for example. He had nothing to do with Jojo's, fitting seamlessly in to mid-field and driving us on with a series of top class performances. What he did do, was become the catalyst for our improvement, not just by scoring that goal against Luton, but by thumping in the equaliser against Watford (a game we would surely have lost before Christmas) when we had got on top, to help keep the momentum building and with the deftest of headers v Millwall (my goal of the season), which turned a game around and affirmed our good form, rather than it grinding to a halt, losing limply to one of our less pleasant neighbours. And who can forget how fired up he was against Brentford?
While he may have nothing to do with Wallace's excellent form, the can be little doubt over his influence on Dykes and, I would contend, Willock. We only see what happens on the pitch. What we hear about what is happening behind the scenes is second hand, and - not withstanding Clive's excellent contacts - is often inaccurate. We know that Austin increase our 'voice' on the pitch and provided vital links between mid-field and attack by dropping deeper. He also probably caused a change in style by demanding the ball be released earlier and longer from the back and while we have praised Warburton's 'pragmatism' in this regard, only a player with as strong a character and high a status as Austin, could have implemented this change, which goes against Warburton's long-held philosophies.
Yes, of course, the have been detriments to his play too. His passing is often woeful and often puts us under unnecessary pressure. Whether through fitness or 'preservation' he rarely completes games and that has to be a concern. I would be less concerned about his brain-fart against Forest that Brian is, but nevertheless, one would expect better leadership and example from a senior and highly respected pro.
As to whether we should 'break the bank' to get him back permanently is a tricky one. We refused to do it for Wells, but the circumstances were different. Wells had a £3M fee attached, which Austin won't have. While well liked, Wells lacks Austin's cult hero status and positive influence around the club. Also, we would have signed Wells to continue to 'tread water' at this level, whereas signing Austin could be a serious statement of intent, that we will have a real go at top six next season.
There has been much debate here about Austin's goal ratio, whether time off the pitch should be factored in or not. To me, such debate- while interesting - is irrelevant. Strikers regularly go on 'purple patches', which skew the stats dramatically. Dykes is a classic example. His goal-per-game ratio before and after Christmas are like night and day. The reality is the if Austin bags 15 goals next season and enables Dykes to do the same, we will be well on our way to a successful season.
I will finish with a caveat, harp back to where I began. IF we sign Austin, two years IS a long contract, with his long history of injuries at his age. So we would have to expect that he would have a diminished influence ON the pitch, as time goes by. However, as we have seen with the likes of Rangel, his influence OFF it, could be equally as significant. | | | |
| End of term report 20/21 — Attack on 12:03 - May 27 with 974 views | rsonist |
"This could easily have gone two ways, he could have been buried under the weight of expectation and limped off against Luton after an anonymous half-an-hour with a hamstring injury, never to be seen again. "
I had much darker imaginings of how CA's return could have gone. Everything we're grateful for at the club today that the had been patiently worked towards was in the balance at the time. Had he gone full Barton and become a figurehead of dissent with all the sentiment behind him, I really think he could have blown the whole thing up. | | | |
| End of term report 20/21 — Attack on 17:55 - May 27 with 788 views | denhamhoop2 |
I hope that we sign Charlie because he is a born goal scorer and they are few and far between to find. The wages is the main sticking point but as for whether he was worth an A or B that's just a figure . What no one can dispute is he gives much needed experience to a very inexperienced front line then throw in his nasty chirpy side which in my opinion all good teams need at least 2 players with that side to them.
He is not a natural born athlete and think he will always lack fitness if he doesn't get enough game time which if signed would probably not be an issue.
In Warbs I have full confidence in terms of sports science having managed QPR brilliantly in terms of injury and time management during this once in a lifetime season | | | |
| End of term report 20/21 — Attack on 22:18 - May 27 with 655 views | Myke |
Well that cystallises things a bit. All down to wages now. There has to be a way of making this attractive without breaking our structure. Significant wages saved on Cameron and Lumley should also help. Interesting times | | | |
| End of term report 20/21 — Attack on 22:30 - May 27 with 646 views | strikerace |
I have always been a fan of Grosicki too. The guy is a really good offensive threat. | | | |
| End of term report 20/21 — Attack on 22:35 - May 27 with 645 views | Myke |
| End of term report 20/21 — Attack on 22:30 - May 27 by strikerace |
I have always been a fan of Grosicki too. The guy is a really good offensive threat. |
Yeah, I thought of him too, very potent at this level.Not sure we need another winger though and don't see him as a WB [Post edited 27 May 2021 22:36]
| | | |
| |
By continuing to use the site, you agree to our use of cookies and to abide by our Terms and Conditions.
