| Market Economy 00:16 - Sep 27 with 3024 views | DaiHo0p |
Still Failing.
|  | | |  |
| Market Economy on 01:22 - Sep 27 with 2589 views | SonofNorfolt |
Privatisation has only worked for those who had large investments in it. The proletariat always pay.
Anyway Mr Boyce how are you? Not succumbed to the Red Dragons yet then? |  | | |
| Market Economy on 08:05 - Sep 27 with 2497 views | kropotkin41 |
The market economy does with great success exactly what could be predicted: it extracts and concentrates wealth. Unfortunately for those people who believe that "there is no alternative", it destroys eco-systems (soon enough the Earth as we have known it) and human communities (soon enough all society as we have known it) wherever it goes, and its depredations are evident to all who would take an honest look. |  |
| ‘morbid curiosity about where this is all going’ |
| |
| Market Economy on 08:37 - Sep 27 with 2445 views | ElHoop |
If you've got some alternative ideas then go out and do it - there's nothing to stop people building their own little societies which work differently and which might eventually become predominant.
All I ever hear from opponents of the current system is that it is failing. Why not get up off your arse and build something else then? |  | | |
| Market Economy on 08:40 - Sep 27 with 2436 views | WokingR |
| Market Economy on 08:37 - Sep 27 by ElHoop |
If you've got some alternative ideas then go out and do it - there's nothing to stop people building their own little societies which work differently and which might eventually become predominant.
All I ever hear from opponents of the current system is that it is failing. Why not get up off your arse and build something else then? |
 |  | | |
| Market Economy on 08:58 - Sep 27 with 2401 views | FDC |
| Market Economy on 08:37 - Sep 27 by ElHoop |
If you've got some alternative ideas then go out and do it - there's nothing to stop people building their own little societies which work differently and which might eventually become predominant.
All I ever hear from opponents of the current system is that it is failing. Why not get up off your arse and build something else then? |
There is no "outside" of capitalism.
Anti-squatting laws, partitioning of the land, globalisation, corporate influence on public life, etc etc.
Humour me, if you wanted to go and start a new way of living, where would you go to remove yourself from capitalism?
Drop-out activism is self-indulgent nonsense. |  | | |
| Market Economy on 08:59 - Sep 27 with 2399 views | WestminsteRs |
| Market Economy on 08:37 - Sep 27 by ElHoop |
If you've got some alternative ideas then go out and do it - there's nothing to stop people building their own little societies which work differently and which might eventually become predominant.
All I ever hear from opponents of the current system is that it is failing. Why not get up off your arse and build something else then? |
 |  | | |
| Market Economy on 09:32 - Sep 27 with 2361 views | ElHoop |
| Market Economy on 08:58 - Sep 27 by FDC |
There is no "outside" of capitalism.
Anti-squatting laws, partitioning of the land, globalisation, corporate influence on public life, etc etc.
Humour me, if you wanted to go and start a new way of living, where would you go to remove yourself from capitalism?
Drop-out activism is self-indulgent nonsense. |
Oh give over, if you really wanted a different lifestyle and values you could go out and do it. And anyway, surely it's all Thatcher's fault isn't it? | | | |
Login to get fewer ads
| Market Economy on 10:25 - Sep 27 with 2298 views | HollowayRanger |
my isa went from £8000 2012 to £11,000 2013
so somethings working out there? |  |
| |
| Market Economy on 10:31 - Sep 27 with 2283 views | doogi55 |
it only stops working when people get greedy and take bad risks and break the rules. |  | | |
| Market Economy on 11:29 - Sep 27 with 2240 views | Juzzie |
| Market Economy on 08:37 - Sep 27 by ElHoop |
If you've got some alternative ideas then go out and do it - there's nothing to stop people building their own little societies which work differently and which might eventually become predominant.
All I ever hear from opponents of the current system is that it is failing. Why not get up off your arse and build something else then? |
"Passport To Pimlico" |  | | |
| Market Economy on 11:48 - Sep 27 with 2219 views | Cliff |
| Market Economy on 08:37 - Sep 27 by ElHoop |
If you've got some alternative ideas then go out and do it - there's nothing to stop people building their own little societies which work differently and which might eventually become predominant.
All I ever hear from opponents of the current system is that it is failing. Why not get up off your arse and build something else then? |
 |  | | |
| Market Economy on 12:24 - Sep 27 with 2194 views | DaiHo0p |
The Maths don't work in capitalism though. An invisbile sum of money is systematically taken from the labourer after the costs of the employer have been outlayed. This is repeatadily taken from the labourer as profit for the employer to get wealthly. The science is wrong.
Ok, Mel? Be in the Conningham tomorrow from 12noon. | | | |
| Market Economy on 12:28 - Sep 27 with 2182 views | FDC |
| Market Economy on 09:32 - Sep 27 by ElHoop |
Oh give over, if you really wanted a different lifestyle and values you could go out and do it. And anyway, surely it's all Thatcher's fault isn't it? |
Lifestyle and values, yes. That's hardly the same as living outside of capitalism though is it.
Oh, a Thatcher joke, my reasoning is in tatters.  | | | |
| Market Economy on 13:00 - Sep 27 with 2148 views | TacticalR |
Given the problems of the system, for me the real question is why there is not a significant minority opposed to the system.
This is what one writer had to say on the subject, during a previous depression (the 1930s):
'The difference between the radical organizations and the broad masses appears as a difference of objectives. The former apparently seek to overthrow capitalism; the masses seek only to maintain their living standards within capitalism. The revolutionary groups agitate for the abolition of private property; the people, called the masses, either own bits of private property, or hope some day to own them. The communist-minded struggle for the eradication of the profit system; the masses, capitalist-minded, speak of the bosses' right to a "fair profit." As long as a relatively large majority of the American working class maintain the living conditions to which they are accustomed, and have the leisure to follow their pursuits, such as baseball and movies, they are generally well content, and they are grateful to the system that makes these things possible. The radical, who opposes this system and thereby jeopardizes their position within it, is far more dangerous to them than the bosses who pay them, and they do not hesitate to make a martyr of him. As long as the system satisfies their basic needs in the accustomed manner, they are well satisfied with it and whatever evils they behold in society, they attribute to "unfair bosses," "bad administrators" or other individuals.'
http://www.lettersjournal.org/moss.html
The key point is the last one. It is not that people do not perceive the evils of the system, but rather that there is little attempt to connect them in a systematic way to capitalism itself. |  |
| |
| Market Economy on 13:26 - Sep 27 with 2119 views | Antti_Heinola |
| Market Economy on 08:37 - Sep 27 by ElHoop |
If you've got some alternative ideas then go out and do it - there's nothing to stop people building their own little societies which work differently and which might eventually become predominant.
All I ever hear from opponents of the current system is that it is failing. Why not get up off your arse and build something else then? |
don't we elect politicians to change things for the better? |  |
| |
| Market Economy on 13:27 - Sep 27 with 2117 views | Clive_Anderson |
| Market Economy on 08:58 - Sep 27 by FDC |
There is no "outside" of capitalism.
Anti-squatting laws, partitioning of the land, globalisation, corporate influence on public life, etc etc.
Humour me, if you wanted to go and start a new way of living, where would you go to remove yourself from capitalism?
Drop-out activism is self-indulgent nonsense. |
Sounds like you're confusing state sanctioned corporatism with capitalism.
But yes the state stops people setting up alternatives. | | | |
| Market Economy on 13:31 - Sep 27 with 2107 views | FDC |
| Market Economy on 13:27 - Sep 27 by Clive_Anderson |
Sounds like you're confusing state sanctioned corporatism with capitalism.
But yes the state stops people setting up alternatives. |
How am I confusing state-sanctioned corporatism with capitalism? | | | |
| Market Economy on 13:36 - Sep 27 with 2091 views | Clive_Anderson |
You can have a capitalist system that doesn't have anti-squatting laws or favour global corporations over the average person. | | | |
| Market Economy on 13:38 - Sep 27 with 2088 views | TacticalR |
| Market Economy on 13:26 - Sep 27 by Antti_Heinola |
don't we elect politicians to change things for the better? |
The interesting thing is that politicians have stopped promising to make things better.
Adam Curtis argued in his 2004 series The Power of Nightmares that the most successful politicians are the ones who can create the most fear:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Power_of_Nightmares | |
| |
| Market Economy on 13:43 - Sep 27 with 2080 views | TacticalR |
| Market Economy on 13:31 - Sep 27 by FDC |
How am I confusing state-sanctioned corporatism with capitalism? |
Clive Anderson's logic is always the same:
Capitalism is a good system. Sometimes bad things happen. Therefore they are nothing to do with capitalism.
Maggie Thatcher is a good person. Sometimes bad things happen. Therefore.... | |
| |
| Market Economy on 13:50 - Sep 27 with 2060 views | Clive_Anderson |
| Market Economy on 13:43 - Sep 27 by TacticalR |
Clive Anderson's logic is always the same:
Capitalism is a good system. Sometimes bad things happen. Therefore they are nothing to do with capitalism.
Maggie Thatcher is a good person. Sometimes bad things happen. Therefore.... |
And you resort to insults when you hear something you can't explain away. | | | |
| Market Economy on 13:53 - Sep 27 with 2057 views | FDC |
| Market Economy on 13:36 - Sep 27 by Clive_Anderson |
You can have a capitalist system that doesn't have anti-squatting laws or favour global corporations over the average person. |
Anti-squatting laws are entirely in keeping with the enclosures of the 16th century and onwards. A capitalist system would after all struggle to survive if people were free to use the land as they see fit. Capitalism requires that people are forced to participate. Which is my whole point.
I don't think I said anything about corporations being favoured over the individual, although its not much of a stretch to see how this is characteristic of (but not fundamental to) capitalism. | | | |
| Market Economy on 14:00 - Sep 27 with 2044 views | Clive_Anderson |
| Market Economy on 13:53 - Sep 27 by FDC |
Anti-squatting laws are entirely in keeping with the enclosures of the 16th century and onwards. A capitalist system would after all struggle to survive if people were free to use the land as they see fit. Capitalism requires that people are forced to participate. Which is my whole point.
I don't think I said anything about corporations being favoured over the individual, although its not much of a stretch to see how this is characteristic of (but not fundamental to) capitalism. |
I agree we your views on how the current capitalist system is implemented causes these problems and I think that it is broken. I was just making the point that it isn't the only way it can work.
The government decides what capital can be used for profit and in what way. For example people used to be capital in the form of slaves and aren't any longer.
They could implement a land tax that removes profiting from land ownership, but keep the other aspects of capitalism (such as intellectual property) intact. | | | |
| Market Economy on 14:19 - Sep 27 with 2015 views | tooting_hoop |
| Market Economy on 10:25 - Sep 27 by HollowayRanger |
my isa went from £8000 2012 to £11,000 2013
so somethings working out there? |
Not if you added £4k to achieve that result. |  |
| Follow me on Twitter @tootinghoop |
| |
| |
By continuing to use the site, you agree to our use of cookies and to abide by our Terms and Conditions.
