| Defenders 08:02 - Jul 12 with 3065 views | PlanetHonneywood |
Like a lot of folks, I've felt three decent defenders were what's needed at the end of last season.
Even if AS leaves, we're still solid betwixt the sticks. Midfield looks decent enough, some options at least, albeit that you'd like to see some more goals from that department. Forwards, do look light, but as we all seem to agree, play them in the right positions would help. But perhaps another, ideally a lucky-arse fox in the box type, if one can be sourced at a reasonable price. Tricky I know!
Its the defence I'm more worried about. Any team that does well, has a solid defence and we don't. I know Caulker is not training with the First XI, but as we've still got him for a year, I'm not so sure I wouldn't have tried to get some game out of him. Looked reasonable before it all went haywire last October time and we'll struggle to offload if he's in the stiffs.
Everything that needs to be said about the rest of them, has been said, but any news on whether reinforcements are coming soon? I read about some Watford loanee and another chap from t'Barnsley, but it would be good to get them in and integrated sharpish!
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| Defenders on 09:03 - Jul 12 with 2220 views | paulparker |
The defence has been an issue but it doesn't help when we keep switching tactics every 5 minutes , if we are to play 3-5-2 we need 2 pacy fullbacks who can get up and down the pitch with ease as well as be good defenders when needed , furlong will be that eventually but he needs back up and some one to ease the burden of a long season
Bidwell isn't a wing back so its unfair on him to play that way I still think he could be the answer as a centre back despite the torrid time he had against Brentford , Robinson is never fit , perch never will be a wing back so long as I have a hole in my ar se and Lynch is slower than milk when he turns
caulker is done so forget him , the sooner he is away from the club the better no more second chances he was terrible last year despite him being a born again charity worker
we need to get rid of perch, Lynch & caulker if we can get a real left wing back than brilliant and back up for furlong is needed I would have Bidwell as a centre back and maybe loan someone in to cover hall & ned
the main problem for us will be scoring goals our midfield wont get 5 between them so that's a big burden for our strikers imho we need a striker but where do you get a 20 goal a season man for anything less than 6 million |  |
| And Bowles is onside, Swinburne has come rushing out of his goal , what can Bowles do here , onto the left foot no, on to the right foot
That’s there that’s two, and that’s Bowles
Brian Moore
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| Defenders on 09:09 - Jul 12 with 2205 views | hoopdog |
And still are |  | | |
| Defenders on 09:30 - Jul 12 with 2163 views | californiahoop |
| Defenders on 09:03 - Jul 12 by paulparker |
The defence has been an issue but it doesn't help when we keep switching tactics every 5 minutes , if we are to play 3-5-2 we need 2 pacy fullbacks who can get up and down the pitch with ease as well as be good defenders when needed , furlong will be that eventually but he needs back up and some one to ease the burden of a long season
Bidwell isn't a wing back so its unfair on him to play that way I still think he could be the answer as a centre back despite the torrid time he had against Brentford , Robinson is never fit , perch never will be a wing back so long as I have a hole in my ar se and Lynch is slower than milk when he turns
caulker is done so forget him , the sooner he is away from the club the better no more second chances he was terrible last year despite him being a born again charity worker
we need to get rid of perch, Lynch & caulker if we can get a real left wing back than brilliant and back up for furlong is needed I would have Bidwell as a centre back and maybe loan someone in to cover hall & ned
the main problem for us will be scoring goals our midfield wont get 5 between them so that's a big burden for our strikers imho we need a striker but where do you get a 20 goal a season man for anything less than 6 million |
Agree, this switching systems bull is the problem, if I asked you to name a team and asked what system they played, you would be able to answer, with us, it's, " I want us to play several systems"
You must first have a base, a system you constantly play then evolve different tactics from there.
Bidwell is a LS CB in a 3 at the back, Perch is a RS CB.
If we are struck with Caulker I would get him fit and play him.
We need a good coach in the first team, players not improving. | | | |
| Defenders on 10:01 - Jul 12 with 2111 views | francisbowles |
| Defenders on 09:03 - Jul 12 by paulparker |
The defence has been an issue but it doesn't help when we keep switching tactics every 5 minutes , if we are to play 3-5-2 we need 2 pacy fullbacks who can get up and down the pitch with ease as well as be good defenders when needed , furlong will be that eventually but he needs back up and some one to ease the burden of a long season
Bidwell isn't a wing back so its unfair on him to play that way I still think he could be the answer as a centre back despite the torrid time he had against Brentford , Robinson is never fit , perch never will be a wing back so long as I have a hole in my ar se and Lynch is slower than milk when he turns
caulker is done so forget him , the sooner he is away from the club the better no more second chances he was terrible last year despite him being a born again charity worker
we need to get rid of perch, Lynch & caulker if we can get a real left wing back than brilliant and back up for furlong is needed I would have Bidwell as a centre back and maybe loan someone in to cover hall & ned
the main problem for us will be scoring goals our midfield wont get 5 between them so that's a big burden for our strikers imho we need a striker but where do you get a 20 goal a season man for anything less than 6 million |
I think Bidwell was at lb when he was given the run a round at Brentford. It was the home game before it where he was at left cb, as I think we only had three fit defenders, and he was very poor in that game.
Bidwell is/seems to be a good honest pro with average ability. He gets forward quite well but the delivery is inconsistent. He had a difficult first season but there isn't anything that I can see that prevents him from improving this time, with hard work and learning, as he adapts to the wing back role.
We need Lynch to improve alongside him, in his second season and Manning to provide the cover for Bidwell when he goes forward.
It is going to take time, as well as unity and strength of character from all of them, to get through few setbacks along the way! | | | |
| Defenders on 10:04 - Jul 12 with 2102 views | Hayesender |
It worried me slightly when Holloway said to the players out in Portugal he wants everyone to be able to play any position he asks.
Square pegs in round holes again |  |
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| Defenders on 10:29 - Jul 12 with 2021 views | PlanetHonneywood |
| Defenders on 09:03 - Jul 12 by paulparker |
The defence has been an issue but it doesn't help when we keep switching tactics every 5 minutes , if we are to play 3-5-2 we need 2 pacy fullbacks who can get up and down the pitch with ease as well as be good defenders when needed , furlong will be that eventually but he needs back up and some one to ease the burden of a long season
Bidwell isn't a wing back so its unfair on him to play that way I still think he could be the answer as a centre back despite the torrid time he had against Brentford , Robinson is never fit , perch never will be a wing back so long as I have a hole in my ar se and Lynch is slower than milk when he turns
caulker is done so forget him , the sooner he is away from the club the better no more second chances he was terrible last year despite him being a born again charity worker
we need to get rid of perch, Lynch & caulker if we can get a real left wing back than brilliant and back up for furlong is needed I would have Bidwell as a centre back and maybe loan someone in to cover hall & ned
the main problem for us will be scoring goals our midfield wont get 5 between them so that's a big burden for our strikers imho we need a striker but where do you get a 20 goal a season man for anything less than 6 million |
Wouldn't disagree with any of that and to be fair, it's pretty much the agreed assessment of the many.
However, unable as I am to respond to two posts at once, much of what is said and broadly agreed, is rendered mute by 'Hayesender's' post: Is Ollie seriously looking at the 'square pegs into round holes option' of players being expected to play anywhere at anytime?
Utter madness if so. This is the type of stuff you do with kids to broaden their football education. Ajax do it so say, a guy who'll play CH plays CF so he gets some insight. Not putting Darnell up top because Ollie has had an egg during the night and woken in the morning with such a stupid idea.
FFS, football is a relatively simple game, why does he insist on making it difficult? I still love him, thought it an odd return, but welcomed it despite the obvious concerns we could envisage from his last time with us. This nonsense however, is beyond rational contemplation and thinking. Please tell me I'm wrong and Hayesender is showing signs of coming out of a massive drink and drugs binge!
I don't mind the odd bit of filling in when it's necessary, but surely even Ollie can see that which we've also been saying after his two disastrous tinkerings last season: when you've got a winning team/formula, stick with it and don't change it for the sake of change.
This could be a long season!!!! | |
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| Defenders on 10:31 - Jul 12 with 2020 views | californiahoop |
| Defenders on 10:04 - Jul 12 by Hayesender |
It worried me slightly when Holloway said to the players out in Portugal he wants everyone to be able to play any position he asks.
Square pegs in round holes again |
Get a formation settled first then experiment! | | | |
| Defenders on 10:46 - Jul 12 with 1984 views | PunteR |
| Defenders on 10:04 - Jul 12 by Hayesender |
It worried me slightly when Holloway said to the players out in Portugal he wants everyone to be able to play any position he asks.
Square pegs in round holes again |
I dont feel like the players we have in defence is the problem. Onouha, Hall, Lynch isnt too shabby in this league.
Ok Lynch didn't tear up trees in his first season but he chipped in with a couple of goals and i thought done ok on occasions. I wouldn't right him off yet.
With the right system in place i think we would be ok in defence. We won the league with Gorkks and Connelly as our CB pairing.!
Chopping and changing the system we play is fine if all our players know it but they dont. The team seems really fragmented in open play and Lynch and Onouha going long all the time doesnt really help.
I just think they need to stick with a team and get on the training pitch and learn how to play as a team.
More than anything we need goal scorers imo. |  |
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| Defenders on 10:53 - Jul 12 with 1969 views | paulparker |
| Defenders on 10:29 - Jul 12 by PlanetHonneywood |
Wouldn't disagree with any of that and to be fair, it's pretty much the agreed assessment of the many.
However, unable as I am to respond to two posts at once, much of what is said and broadly agreed, is rendered mute by 'Hayesender's' post: Is Ollie seriously looking at the 'square pegs into round holes option' of players being expected to play anywhere at anytime?
Utter madness if so. This is the type of stuff you do with kids to broaden their football education. Ajax do it so say, a guy who'll play CH plays CF so he gets some insight. Not putting Darnell up top because Ollie has had an egg during the night and woken in the morning with such a stupid idea.
FFS, football is a relatively simple game, why does he insist on making it difficult? I still love him, thought it an odd return, but welcomed it despite the obvious concerns we could envisage from his last time with us. This nonsense however, is beyond rational contemplation and thinking. Please tell me I'm wrong and Hayesender is showing signs of coming out of a massive drink and drugs binge!
I don't mind the odd bit of filling in when it's necessary, but surely even Ollie can see that which we've also been saying after his two disastrous tinkerings last season: when you've got a winning team/formula, stick with it and don't change it for the sake of change.
This could be a long season!!!! |
on the flip side I don't think Ollie has done to bad with some of the experimentation well on the playing side he hasn't, if you look at Hall as a sweeper Manning, & Freeman as centre midfielders its worked I just think we are all a bit over the shop when it comes to the tactics are we 3-5-2 are we 4-4-2 , 4-5-1 or 4-2-3-1 we need to find a system that fits the players we have got , as settled system makes a whole lot of difference to a defence, at times last year Ned didn't know if he was coming or going as the midfielders & wingbacks didn't know their positions leaving us exposed ,
building from the back is the catalyst of any successful side lets get a system stick to it and buy the players that are going to play it, we are 4 years down the line and apart from Simpson we still haven't bought a recognised right back | |
| And Bowles is onside, Swinburne has come rushing out of his goal , what can Bowles do here , onto the left foot no, on to the right foot
That’s there that’s two, and that’s Bowles
Brian Moore
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| Defenders on 11:26 - Jul 12 with 1865 views | Hayesender |
| Defenders on 10:31 - Jul 12 by californiahoop |
Get a formation settled first then experiment! |
Agree, I just get visions of George Santos playing up front when I hear Holloway say things like that | |
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| Defenders on 11:30 - Jul 12 with 1859 views | TacticalR |
| Defenders on 10:04 - Jul 12 by Hayesender |
It worried me slightly when Holloway said to the players out in Portugal he wants everyone to be able to play any position he asks.
Square pegs in round holes again |
Some prefer the term totaalvoetbal.  |  |
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| Defenders on 12:04 - Jul 12 with 1766 views | Hooparoo |
I wasn't his biggest fan but JFH was trying to make us solid at the back and we all said we were dying of boredom and now 12 months later we all want a defensive platform to build from.
Well, we all got what we wished for with Olly didn't we? Lots of the kind of excitement that I quite frankly could do without.
We really are a bunch of tarts. |  |
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| Defenders on 12:05 - Jul 12 with 1760 views | derbyhoop |
I'll echo the calls for stability. If you want a solid defence you try to pick the same back 4/5 week after week, subject to injuries.
Even so, I'm not convinced what we have is good enough. Onouha's distribution may be cack but he's still the most reliable defender we have. When there are limited options to play alongside him, I don't agree with the idea of playing Hall as a defensive midfielder. The alternatives at CB are Lynch, who's had too many flaky moments and Caulker, who appears to have been written off. After that we are looking at Hammelainen or Perch.
I'm less worried about the full backs. Bidwell, didn't pull up any trees, but is a solid Championship LB. If Robinson can get/stay fit, he offers more going forward. I'd like to see Furlong cemented as first choice, although his positioning, as evidenced by the Reading highlights, needs a lot of work. However much Perch is criticised on here he offers options across the back line and we should accept that - limitations and all.
If we can seal the purported loan deal for Hoban that would go a long way to calming anxieties. |  |
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Find me on twitter @derbyhoop |
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| Defenders on 12:05 - Jul 12 with 1760 views | bob566 |
| Defenders on 12:04 - Jul 12 by Hooparoo |
I wasn't his biggest fan but JFH was trying to make us solid at the back and we all said we were dying of boredom and now 12 months later we all want a defensive platform to build from.
Well, we all got what we wished for with Olly didn't we? Lots of the kind of excitement that I quite frankly could do without.
We really are a bunch of tarts. |
that's a good point. We're getting loads of excitement now and people aren't happy. | | | |
| Defenders on 12:07 - Jul 12 with 1757 views | TacticalR |
| Defenders on 12:05 - Jul 12 by bob566 |
that's a good point. We're getting loads of excitement now and people aren't happy. |
Is it the wrong kind of excitement? | |
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| Defenders on 12:17 - Jul 12 with 1717 views | bob566 |
| Defenders on 12:07 - Jul 12 by TacticalR |
Is it the wrong kind of excitement? |
good excitement tends to cost lots of money. | | | |
| Defenders on 12:19 - Jul 12 with 1710 views | eghamranger |
| Defenders on 12:07 - Jul 12 by TacticalR |
Is it the wrong kind of excitement? |
I'm not getting any excitement!!
Caulker is still getting £50k a week, we have bought an average Barnsley player, we didn't have a linesman at the kids match yesterday, we are 6th favourite to get relegated and Smithies will go.
And it's £30 to watch us play reading next month 😞 |  | | |
| Defenders on 12:39 - Jul 12 with 1661 views | cyprusmel |
| Defenders on 12:19 - Jul 12 by eghamranger |
I'm not getting any excitement!!
Caulker is still getting £50k a week, we have bought an average Barnsley player, we didn't have a linesman at the kids match yesterday, we are 6th favourite to get relegated and Smithies will go.
And it's £30 to watch us play reading next month 😞 |
Yeah but apart from that :  | | | |
| Defenders on 12:45 - Jul 12 with 1645 views | bob566 |
| Defenders on 12:19 - Jul 12 by eghamranger |
I'm not getting any excitement!!
Caulker is still getting £50k a week, we have bought an average Barnsley player, we didn't have a linesman at the kids match yesterday, we are 6th favourite to get relegated and Smithies will go.
And it's £30 to watch us play reading next month 😞 |
how can you comment on the Barnsley lad before a ball has been kicked in earnest. | | | |
| Defenders on 12:56 - Jul 12 with 1623 views | LazyFan |
IMHO
We need 5 players.
2 x CB (if Hall gets injured, we are left with Ned and Lynch with no sub to come on)
1 x CF (if Smith gets injured we need another target man to help Conner)
1 x RB (get rid of Perch)
We have some money from our 3 sales before any Smithies sale. First 3 are top priority.
We get those we shall have hopefully improved our defence and attach to avoid relegation.
This is what we need. |  |
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| Defenders on 13:04 - Jul 12 with 1595 views | eghamranger |
| Defenders on 12:45 - Jul 12 by bob566 |
how can you comment on the Barnsley lad before a ball has been kicked in earnest. |
Ok ok ok.., I can't... but he is a free transfer from Barnsley, he is a local ish lad and got a pay rise coming here (fact). Would love him to be the next Francis and pull up trees but I can't see it. Is meant to be a decent player but if he was better than that he would have gone elsewhere | | | |
| Defenders on 13:15 - Jul 12 with 1547 views | Antti_Heinola |
| Defenders on 13:04 - Jul 12 by eghamranger |
Ok ok ok.., I can't... but he is a free transfer from Barnsley, he is a local ish lad and got a pay rise coming here (fact). Would love him to be the next Francis and pull up trees but I can't see it. Is meant to be a decent player but if he was better than that he would have gone elsewhere |
By that rationale, it's impossible to sign anyone better than him isn't it? Otherwise they'd go elsewhere. Weird logic. |  |
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| Defenders on 13:21 - Jul 12 with 1511 views | MedwayR |
If Holloway wants versatility that's fine but I think he should work within the confines of two banks of 4 which would allow us to play 4-4-2, 4-1-4-1 or 4-4-1-1 which should allow for enough tinkering without confusing players & can closely resemble other formations. In this context id say we need 2 CB's, plus a left winger & CF if we can find any available on a good deal.
GK: Smithies / Ingram / Lumley
RB: Furlong / Perch / Kakay
CB: Onouha / ?
CB: Lynch / ?
LB: Bidwell / Robinson / Hamalainen
SW: Hall / Goss
RW: Wszolek / Petrasso / Mackie
CM: Cousins / Scowen / Comley
CM: Luongo / Manning
LW: Freeman / Shodipo
AM: Ngbakoto / Eze
CF: Smith / ?
ST: Sylla / Washington / Grego-Cox
I don't see the need to over complicate or have a huge turnover of players. |  |
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| Defenders on 13:24 - Jul 12 with 1498 views | simmo |
| Defenders on 13:04 - Jul 12 by eghamranger |
Ok ok ok.., I can't... but he is a free transfer from Barnsley, he is a local ish lad and got a pay rise coming here (fact). Would love him to be the next Francis and pull up trees but I can't see it. Is meant to be a decent player but if he was better than that he would have gone elsewhere |
So much nonsense it's hard to decipher.
Personally I think we need a CB and a Striker. That's it in terms of actual NEED, because we're extremely light in both those areas. We have 2 in every position except those 2 areas (where you need 4).
GK: Smithies, Ingram
RB: Furlong, Perch
CB: Chief, Hall, Lynch
LB: Bidwell, Robinson
RM: Wzsolek, Mackie, (Petrasso)
CM: Cousins, Manning, Luongo, Freeman, Goss, (Eze), Shit lad from Barnsley
LM: Ngbokoto, Shodipo
ST: Wash, Smith, Sylla, (RGC)
The rest we can cover with youth, but another CB and a striker is priority, everything else a bonus, depending on how we're going to set up of course... |  |
| ask Beavis I get nothing Butthead |
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| Defenders on 14:36 - Jul 12 with 1355 views | oldmisery |
| Defenders on 10:01 - Jul 12 by francisbowles |
I think Bidwell was at lb when he was given the run a round at Brentford. It was the home game before it where he was at left cb, as I think we only had three fit defenders, and he was very poor in that game.
Bidwell is/seems to be a good honest pro with average ability. He gets forward quite well but the delivery is inconsistent. He had a difficult first season but there isn't anything that I can see that prevents him from improving this time, with hard work and learning, as he adapts to the wing back role.
We need Lynch to improve alongside him, in his second season and Manning to provide the cover for Bidwell when he goes forward.
It is going to take time, as well as unity and strength of character from all of them, to get through few setbacks along the way! |
I understand where you are going with these comments but have some difficulty with the concept of improvement. Agreed, Bidwell is only 24 but has played some 244 senior games in his career to date. Lynch is almost 30 and has played over 310 senior games.
I don't know whether any player can be deemed 'too old' to make any significant improvements to their game but if there is no age limit to becoming a more effective player at Championship level, is anyone convinced that Ollie and his backroom team have the coaching abilities to induce better performance?
You often hear past players refer to ways in which Dave Sexton or El Tel made them better players but I'm not sure that Ollie or indeed Marc Bircham have those specific skills in their locker. | | | |
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