| Evil Les... 08:51 - Nov 7 with 5009 views | Hunterhoop |
Does Evil Les' evil rating come down a bit now he's sacked his mate (again)? Or is dependent on if we hire Sherwood?
In all seriousness, I just cannot comprehend the vitriol towards him. Someone actually said on social media "we need to get more of our own into the club", whilst also saying Les had to go. Err....Les IS our own. He's a club legend and about as qualified as you can get in football to be a DoF. Most are sodding ex-agents or mates of CEOs, and most have absolutely no business management qualifications, fewer still have UEFA Coaching Licences and almost none actually were a top class player. He's can see the running of a club from all angles. Doesn't mean he'll succeed (or is even a nice fella) but he is qualified. Oh, and what exactly has this 'Forever Rs' campaign been about exactly,! Oh yeah, getting our own back involved in the club.
Someone else also said, seriously from what I could gather, that our scouting network had been reduced to nothing under Les. Err...you what?? Hughes Redknapp canned the scoutin network in favour of the agent network. Les has reversed this. We actually now have scouts. He's increased the number from what I've heard and we've signed players from League 1, the German, Dutch, Polish and French leagues. Either he's personally clocked up a lot of mileage or we've got a much improved scouting network.
Whoever he appoints, even if it is Cpt Bellend, can we just get behind the club and support Les and Hoos. The constant sniping and criticism of him/the club is so counter productive and almost completely unreasonable. "Support" the club. |  | | |  |
| Evil Les... on 14:40 - Nov 7 with 1738 views | ElHoop |
| Evil Les... on 14:04 - Nov 7 by Hunterhoop |
Yeah...
Ask qn, get detailed answer, ignore answer. Great work.
And Elhoop, all due respect, but a) Les' interaction with the manager is just one small aspect of "what he does", and b) why do you, Elhoop, need to know exactly how this interaction happens to know what the DoF role entails?? It's just one small aspect.
The Head Coach is fully responsible for the first team's performance. The DoF and CEO set parameters in which he can work (transfer approach, scouting network, wage caps, etc) amongst many other things as the post with "an awful lot of words" explained.
And to make out it's working at Readibg differently...?! They were below is until a few games ago! We're 16 games into a season! Bit early to be making judgements about it working sonewhere and not here. Besides which, a football club has a myriad of influencing factors affecting it other than just the DoF and Head Coach interaction. |
Your usual standard of smugness there Hunter.
I said that i didn't know what he did, that's all. I didn't say that i didn't know anything that he did. I was interested in how he interacted with JFH in terms of how we set ourselves up, what sort of style of play we aspire to, that sort of thing. But you just get out the old SmugalonwithHunter Volume 14 why don't you old chap?
If JFH had a style of play which worked in Division 1, but which wasn't working so well in the Championship, then that's probably down to experience, just like a player might have trouble in adapting to the championship if he came up a level. To what extent should/does Les 'interfere' in that type of strategy. I didn't know the answer, I still don't know and probably won't ever know.
As for Reading, the individuals involved bear some similarities to ours in terms of background and experience, so I thought that it was worth a mention. It wasn't a smug comment. They were below us but they're now above us and they are all still there. They may end up below us and not all still there, who knows? |  | | |
| Evil Les... on 15:16 - Nov 7 with 1699 views | Hunterhoop |
| Evil Les... on 14:40 - Nov 7 by ElHoop |
Your usual standard of smugness there Hunter.
I said that i didn't know what he did, that's all. I didn't say that i didn't know anything that he did. I was interested in how he interacted with JFH in terms of how we set ourselves up, what sort of style of play we aspire to, that sort of thing. But you just get out the old SmugalonwithHunter Volume 14 why don't you old chap?
If JFH had a style of play which worked in Division 1, but which wasn't working so well in the Championship, then that's probably down to experience, just like a player might have trouble in adapting to the championship if he came up a level. To what extent should/does Les 'interfere' in that type of strategy. I didn't know the answer, I still don't know and probably won't ever know.
As for Reading, the individuals involved bear some similarities to ours in terms of background and experience, so I thought that it was worth a mention. It wasn't a smug comment. They were below us but they're now above us and they are all still there. They may end up below us and not all still there, who knows? |
Smugness? What was "smug" about that post? Appreciate you may not like me (absolutely your prerogative), but we're all just giving our opinions and debating things on a football forum.
In this instance, you asked a question and Bobby Hazell took the time out to give you a fairly thorough answer. You then dismissed his answer because there were "an awful lots of words there". C'mon, man! You opened yourself up for a little light hearted ridicule there.
As Basingstoke said, I don't know exactly how Les and JFH engaged "in terms of how we set ourselves up", etc. None of us really do, I imagine. Why should we? I'd hope the DoF actually has little involvement in that. It's what you pay the Head Coach for. Yes, an inexperienced head coach may make mistakes and need longer to get it right, but the DoF isn't there to be a mentor. The Head Coach is there to do a job - get the best from the first team - and he's got to be accountable for that. But that wasn't your original question (you asked what he did), to which Bobby Hazell replied.
Even if Les does get involved in some way, first team performance is something the head coach should be accountable for. Les' remit is much much wider and more long term in perspective/
p.s. wondered for a while, your avatar of Stuart Broad, what's the reason for it? You into cricket? Notts fan? | | | |
| Evil Les... on 15:39 - Nov 7 with 1671 views | ElHoop |
| Evil Les... on 15:16 - Nov 7 by Hunterhoop |
Smugness? What was "smug" about that post? Appreciate you may not like me (absolutely your prerogative), but we're all just giving our opinions and debating things on a football forum.
In this instance, you asked a question and Bobby Hazell took the time out to give you a fairly thorough answer. You then dismissed his answer because there were "an awful lots of words there". C'mon, man! You opened yourself up for a little light hearted ridicule there.
As Basingstoke said, I don't know exactly how Les and JFH engaged "in terms of how we set ourselves up", etc. None of us really do, I imagine. Why should we? I'd hope the DoF actually has little involvement in that. It's what you pay the Head Coach for. Yes, an inexperienced head coach may make mistakes and need longer to get it right, but the DoF isn't there to be a mentor. The Head Coach is there to do a job - get the best from the first team - and he's got to be accountable for that. But that wasn't your original question (you asked what he did), to which Bobby Hazell replied.
Even if Les does get involved in some way, first team performance is something the head coach should be accountable for. Les' remit is much much wider and more long term in perspective/
p.s. wondered for a while, your avatar of Stuart Broad, what's the reason for it? You into cricket? Notts fan? |
I don't know you at all other than your words on here, so i can't possibly dislike you in the normal sense of the word. Quite a few people on here seem to want to feel a bit better about themselves on some subjects, when it's just about views at the end of the day. Some people just shoot from the hip and others try to come from somewhere when they make a comment, although their sentiments may have plenty of similarities. I sometimes feel as if being on one side of a discussion gets you shoved into the same basket as everyone else on that side, regardless of where you are coming from, and it's only words on a screen and it's hard to explain exactly what you mean without boring everyone to death or spending hours in making posts. So you have to put up with it as it works both ways, but I felt somewhat provoked there as i do like Les Ferdinand but I'm not wholly convinced that he has enough experience himself to help out someone like JFH or whether it's even his job. So when you say he's been hard done by or whatever or treated unreasonably by some people, I guess that I'm agreeing with you but at the same time I'm not sure what he was supposed to do in terms of looking over JFH's shoulder and offering advice or even giving directions. Holloway got a load of stick when he managed us in the Championship after being a legend in Div 1, because he was perceived as not being good enough for the Championship and his style of play was all hoofball and primitive. I've got a feeling that there's a decent manager in JFH if he learns his lessons and maybe he could have leatrned them here, but I don't know whether he could or should have done as nobody knows what happened.
Yes Les has done some great stuff, it's been a breath of fresh air, but should he have done a bit more here? I repeat, who knows?
I'm sorry if I was a bit OTT - it's just me getting the hump.
I don't really like avatars but I like Broady and that came out of the Ashes series when Stokes made that catch I think. I don't support any county in particular although i guess i should support Middlesex because I was born around the corner for some reason. Maybe I should find a new avatar. | | | |
| Evil Les... on 16:23 - Nov 7 with 1638 views | PhilmyRs |
Les Ferdinand the player, Les Ferdinand the Director (or whatever his job title is), has only ever showed our club total, 100% respect. The way people treat someone that on his own pretty much kept us in the top flight, a player that could have left on numerous occasions but stayed longer than he should puts him at legend status in my book.
Now he's learning a new role (you have to start somewhere), and is charged with effectively cleaning up the sh*t of other people's makings and trying to restore a bit of respect (that word again) into the team. Dare I say it, he's trying to make QPR a bit more like it used to be many years ago. To lay into him like some have makes no sense.
Although I don't agree with it, I've understood how some people can lay into recent managers with quite over the top abuse. They have no connection to QPR and have done pretty ordinary to poor jobs. But surely Les Ferdinand should be cut a bit more slack.
He's cutting the wage bill (£20k cap), he's trying to bring in young, hungrier players and he's working towards promoting youth, none of which will be done in 12 months, it will take years.
Neil Warnock's the only Manager that's been successful for us over the last few years and it seems to have built him more loyalty, respect and admiration that Les will ever have. People have short memories. Neil Warnock had a chairman that finally sat back and left him to it, he was able to bring in one of the best players the Championship has ever seen and after suffering 2 injuries (Orr and Mackie) could bring in the most promising right back in the country (on loan) and a premier league quality winger (Routledge). Our left back got injured earlier this season and we had to bring in an 18 year that had never kicked a ball. Times are changing and people need to judge Ferdinand accordingly. |  | | |
| Evil Les... on 16:45 - Nov 7 with 1597 views | Hunterhoop |
| Evil Les... on 16:23 - Nov 7 by PhilmyRs |
Les Ferdinand the player, Les Ferdinand the Director (or whatever his job title is), has only ever showed our club total, 100% respect. The way people treat someone that on his own pretty much kept us in the top flight, a player that could have left on numerous occasions but stayed longer than he should puts him at legend status in my book.
Now he's learning a new role (you have to start somewhere), and is charged with effectively cleaning up the sh*t of other people's makings and trying to restore a bit of respect (that word again) into the team. Dare I say it, he's trying to make QPR a bit more like it used to be many years ago. To lay into him like some have makes no sense.
Although I don't agree with it, I've understood how some people can lay into recent managers with quite over the top abuse. They have no connection to QPR and have done pretty ordinary to poor jobs. But surely Les Ferdinand should be cut a bit more slack.
He's cutting the wage bill (£20k cap), he's trying to bring in young, hungrier players and he's working towards promoting youth, none of which will be done in 12 months, it will take years.
Neil Warnock's the only Manager that's been successful for us over the last few years and it seems to have built him more loyalty, respect and admiration that Les will ever have. People have short memories. Neil Warnock had a chairman that finally sat back and left him to it, he was able to bring in one of the best players the Championship has ever seen and after suffering 2 injuries (Orr and Mackie) could bring in the most promising right back in the country (on loan) and a premier league quality winger (Routledge). Our left back got injured earlier this season and we had to bring in an 18 year that had never kicked a ball. Times are changing and people need to judge Ferdinand accordingly. |
Spot on.
Salary cap is £12k per week too, with only a couple of the ex-Prem signings still on the £20k money, I think. £12k per week is still a lot of money to most of us, don't get me wrong, but it's bottom end of the market in the Championship.
But that's because, in size and revenue and history, we're a bottom half second tier club. Some fans can't grasp that. We all aspire to more and better, but within our means, to some degree, is important for the long term future (and success) of the club we love. | | | |
| Evil Les... on 16:51 - Nov 7 with 1575 views | Hunterhoop |
| Evil Les... on 15:39 - Nov 7 by ElHoop |
I don't know you at all other than your words on here, so i can't possibly dislike you in the normal sense of the word. Quite a few people on here seem to want to feel a bit better about themselves on some subjects, when it's just about views at the end of the day. Some people just shoot from the hip and others try to come from somewhere when they make a comment, although their sentiments may have plenty of similarities. I sometimes feel as if being on one side of a discussion gets you shoved into the same basket as everyone else on that side, regardless of where you are coming from, and it's only words on a screen and it's hard to explain exactly what you mean without boring everyone to death or spending hours in making posts. So you have to put up with it as it works both ways, but I felt somewhat provoked there as i do like Les Ferdinand but I'm not wholly convinced that he has enough experience himself to help out someone like JFH or whether it's even his job. So when you say he's been hard done by or whatever or treated unreasonably by some people, I guess that I'm agreeing with you but at the same time I'm not sure what he was supposed to do in terms of looking over JFH's shoulder and offering advice or even giving directions. Holloway got a load of stick when he managed us in the Championship after being a legend in Div 1, because he was perceived as not being good enough for the Championship and his style of play was all hoofball and primitive. I've got a feeling that there's a decent manager in JFH if he learns his lessons and maybe he could have leatrned them here, but I don't know whether he could or should have done as nobody knows what happened.
Yes Les has done some great stuff, it's been a breath of fresh air, but should he have done a bit more here? I repeat, who knows?
I'm sorry if I was a bit OTT - it's just me getting the hump.
I don't really like avatars but I like Broady and that came out of the Ashes series when Stokes made that catch I think. I don't support any county in particular although i guess i should support Middlesex because I was born around the corner for some reason. Maybe I should find a new avatar. |
No worries. I know what you mean about being shovelled into one bucket if you're on one side of a debate. Happens to everyone. It's easier for people to argue against hyperbole, black and white positions, rather than grey considered and balanced positions. I just genuinely don't understand the vitriol towards Les or even doubts about his motivation or how qualified he is. So much evidence to the contrary on all fronts, as has been discussed.
Anyway, you should definitely support the mighty Middlesex too, btw!! Champions of England! | | | |
| Evil Les... on 17:06 - Nov 7 with 1541 views | kingshill |
| Evil Les... on 14:36 - Nov 7 by brad |
i like les...i think he is doin his best for our club....i hope the next appointment is the right one.....i think les is learning everyday and will get better..... true fans would not want to see him go....cos he is a local lad..... i say he has QPR best interest for the best...i hope he stays. |
Sums it up for me.
Yes he may have been a Spurs fan but arguably his best career times were at Loftus Rd and like messrs Bowles, Bardsley etc he thinks very fondly of us. Because of this and because he seems like a good bloke he'll do his very best to do the best possible job for us, unlike some other high profile figures over the last few years.
He'll get some things wrong but with Hoos alongside we'll get smarter & smarter as a club | | | |
| Evil Les... on 17:19 - Nov 7 with 1519 views | ElHoop |
| Evil Les... on 16:51 - Nov 7 by Hunterhoop |
No worries. I know what you mean about being shovelled into one bucket if you're on one side of a debate. Happens to everyone. It's easier for people to argue against hyperbole, black and white positions, rather than grey considered and balanced positions. I just genuinely don't understand the vitriol towards Les or even doubts about his motivation or how qualified he is. So much evidence to the contrary on all fronts, as has been discussed.
Anyway, you should definitely support the mighty Middlesex too, btw!! Champions of England! |
I don't understand why anyone would be abusive towards Les either, and to the bloke who went to great trouble to explain it all to me - I wasn't doubting Les's achievements. But I think that if you employ anyone at all who is moving up a level, then you need to consider whether he needs help. Anyhow that's enough i think.
Middlesex - yeah I should be Middlesex for sure. Looking forward to the India series. | | | |
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| Evil Les... on 21:36 - Nov 7 with 1386 views | kensalriser |
According to reports from earlier in the year average Championship wages are £325,000 per year, or £6250 per week. It sounds about right that our cap would be around double that. Undoubtedly there's a huge disparity between the top and bottom clubs, but my guess would be that long standing champ clubs like Ipswich are between £6k-8k pw. |  |
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| Evil Les... on 21:55 - Nov 7 with 1359 views | QPR1882 |
| Evil Les... on 09:51 - Nov 7 by ingeminate |
Detest some of the bollocks I've heard. Esp this Tottenham Les BS. People like that have no place at QPR and can fck off.
He's done a sterling Job on the transfer front, miles ahead of where we were before.
I thought Ramsey and Jimmy were both reasonable appointments. Neither worked out, but most managers don't.
If it is Sherwood then the sad thing is that if he flounders then Les may well end up going too - and it will be an ignominious exit.
My hope is that the club have pr'd it. Suggesting it would be sherwood so that anyone else is greeted with extra enthusiasm. |
I thought Ramsey and Jimmy were both reasonable appointments............Am i missing something here ? Did Ramsey not put the final nail in the relegation coffin before given the job full time. How is that a reasonable appointment ? |  | | |
| Evil Les... on 22:02 - Nov 7 with 1348 views | FredManRave |
Tim Sherwood as Manager with Chris Ramsey as his assistant.
MWAHAHAHAHA! |  |
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| Evil Les... on 22:38 - Nov 7 with 1296 views | HendonHoop |
Maybe I have got this wrong but I seem to remember reading in his Autobiography that he always supported Spurs from an early age. | | | |
| Evil Les... on 07:42 - Nov 8 with 1202 views | ingeminate |
| Evil Les... on 21:55 - Nov 7 by QPR1882 |
I thought Ramsey and Jimmy were both reasonable appointments............Am i missing something here ? Did Ramsey not put the final nail in the relegation coffin before given the job full time. How is that a reasonable appointment ? |
It was a reasonable appointment because he looked like someone who had earned a shot. He had a small amount of managerial experience including a promotion abroad. Had been picked by the FA to work with the England under 16s and also as head coach for the under 20's.
He spoke well in interviews, composed, intelligent -, took accountability. He was all about the training, spoke about developing youth players, stressed the importance of in game tactics in many ways everything that Redknapp wasn't by that stage.
He was also popular with the team when he first took charge. I knew someone who was working for the club with lower age groups and thought he would be great and the players would really get behind him - he said they pretty much hated Redknapp.
So I think it was a reasonable appointment. Did it work out? No. Does that mean it was a bad appointment - in your book maybe, in my book no.
Paul Hart was a bad appointment, dreadful track record, dull football. Head in the sand. You could look at this track record and know what to expect. Then we hired him and hey presto got what we all knew we would. |  |
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| Evil Les... on 10:37 - Nov 8 with 1116 views | Antti_Heinola |
| Evil Les... on 22:38 - Nov 7 by HendonHoop |
Maybe I have got this wrong but I seem to remember reading in his Autobiography that he always supported Spurs from an early age. |
He did.
But fans need to get over this. It's not the same for players as it is for us. They can have big affinities for more than one team.
Birch is as QPR as you can get, but he still loves Millwall.
People constantly said on here years ago that Rowly was a Liverpool fan, but even if he was, he loves the Rs.
Ray Wilkins sees QPR as his team, but the fact is, so are Chelsea, weird as it is.
I think Langers might have been a Liverpool fan too, but he loves QPR.
I'm sure Clint Hill wasn't an R growing up, but he loves us now.
And so on.
Les loves the club - and Spurs too. So what? |  |
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| Evil Les... on 10:43 - Nov 8 with 1103 views | DannytheR |
| Evil Les... on 10:37 - Nov 8 by Antti_Heinola |
He did.
But fans need to get over this. It's not the same for players as it is for us. They can have big affinities for more than one team.
Birch is as QPR as you can get, but he still loves Millwall.
People constantly said on here years ago that Rowly was a Liverpool fan, but even if he was, he loves the Rs.
Ray Wilkins sees QPR as his team, but the fact is, so are Chelsea, weird as it is.
I think Langers might have been a Liverpool fan too, but he loves QPR.
I'm sure Clint Hill wasn't an R growing up, but he loves us now.
And so on.
Les loves the club - and Spurs too. So what? |
Be interesting to find out the overlap between people who slate Les for having been a Tottenham fan as a schoolboy and people who think the sun shines out of Charlie Austin.
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| Evil Les... on 10:45 - Nov 8 with 935 views | californiahoop |
| Evil Les... on 09:51 - Nov 7 by ingeminate |
Detest some of the bollocks I've heard. Esp this Tottenham Les BS. People like that have no place at QPR and can fck off.
He's done a sterling Job on the transfer front, miles ahead of where we were before.
I thought Ramsey and Jimmy were both reasonable appointments. Neither worked out, but most managers don't.
If it is Sherwood then the sad thing is that if he flounders then Les may well end up going too - and it will be an ignominious exit.
My hope is that the club have pr'd it. Suggesting it would be sherwood so that anyone else is greeted with extra enthusiasm. |
Spot on! | | | |
| Evil Les... on 21:35 - Nov 8 with 846 views | HendonHoop |
| Evil Les... on 10:37 - Nov 8 by Antti_Heinola |
He did.
But fans need to get over this. It's not the same for players as it is for us. They can have big affinities for more than one team.
Birch is as QPR as you can get, but he still loves Millwall.
People constantly said on here years ago that Rowly was a Liverpool fan, but even if he was, he loves the Rs.
Ray Wilkins sees QPR as his team, but the fact is, so are Chelsea, weird as it is.
I think Langers might have been a Liverpool fan too, but he loves QPR.
I'm sure Clint Hill wasn't an R growing up, but he loves us now.
And so on.
Les loves the club - and Spurs too. So what? |
Yes, fair point. | | | |
| Evil Les... on 23:17 - Nov 8 with 786 views | connell10 |
I think les is a totally great geezer and im really glad he is our DOF. Simple as that! |  |
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