| Mr Holloway 18:16 - Dec 9 with 40440 views | Jogo |
Thank you for your effort as both player and manager over the years...but will you please now f@ck off. |  | | |  |
| Mr Holloway on 15:23 - Dec 16 with 2503 views | QPR_John |
| Mr Holloway on 12:34 - Dec 16 by Benny_the_Ball |
If you believe that they wrote off £180m then you 're seriously deluded. This was creative accounting designed to sugar coat the books in an attempt to avoid a hefty FFP fine. The FFP panel didn't buy it when they calculated the fine and neither do I.
In any event the figures are largely irrelevant as even your massaged version paints a horrible picture. The point is no matter how you cut it, the club has been poorly run. Community projects, though noble, doesn't change this fact and, as you pointed out, it is impacting our ability to spend money on signings.
I, for one, recognise the constraints that Holloway is under and will continue to support the team. However being a supporter doesn't mean that one should close their eyes to the problems. I care far too passionately about this club to do that. |
The accounts as far as I know are a legal document and should truly reflect the state of the organisation. If the accounts however creatively designed reflect the legal position then how can the FL panel ignore what they say and make up a figure for the debt. Again I am happy to concede I may well be talking nonsense so I am open to it being explain in simple words. |  | | |
| Mr Holloway on 15:57 - Dec 16 with 2483 views | terryb |
| Mr Holloway on 15:23 - Dec 16 by QPR_John |
The accounts as far as I know are a legal document and should truly reflect the state of the organisation. If the accounts however creatively designed reflect the legal position then how can the FL panel ignore what they say and make up a figure for the debt. Again I am happy to concede I may well be talking nonsense so I am open to it being explain in simple words. |
I could well be wrong, but for FFP purposes I believe it would have counted if they had paid the cash into the club.
However, they just issued shares to themselves of that value, thus depreciating the value of each individual share. | | | |
| Mr Holloway on 17:10 - Dec 16 with 2434 views | BazzaInTheLoft |
Does Olly get one of his strikes back for this or not? I'm confused? |  | | |
| Mr Holloway on 18:32 - Dec 16 with 2333 views | Hunterhoop |
| Mr Holloway on 12:34 - Dec 16 by Benny_the_Ball |
If you believe that they wrote off £180m then you 're seriously deluded. This was creative accounting designed to sugar coat the books in an attempt to avoid a hefty FFP fine. The FFP panel didn't buy it when they calculated the fine and neither do I.
In any event the figures are largely irrelevant as even your massaged version paints a horrible picture. The point is no matter how you cut it, the club has been poorly run. Community projects, though noble, doesn't change this fact and, as you pointed out, it is impacting our ability to spend money on signings.
I, for one, recognise the constraints that Holloway is under and will continue to support the team. However being a supporter doesn't mean that one should close their eyes to the problems. I care far too passionately about this club to do that. |
You're confused.
The FFP panel didn't buy the £60m "gift" the Board gave and was accounted for as revenue in the Redknapp promotion season that the FFP fine is related to.
The £180m debt conversion to shares (i.e. worthless unless someone is willing to pay for those shares) happened years later and has nothing to do with FFP fine.
What I said about the debt that QPR Holdings have was spot on. Clearly, the owners could recoup money if people were willing to pay it, but they won't, unless we're in the Prem.
That's why we're on this "spend nothing, do not risk a 2nd FFP fine" approach. The Board have swallowed £250m odd and are unwilling to stomach much more, but they'll recoup absolutely nothing if they try to leave now. So, we're trying to balance the books, rebuild, and, if we look like getting back in the Prem (i.e. in or near the play offs) watch them look to sell then. That's when they'll get something for those shares. |  | | |
| Mr Holloway on 18:35 - Dec 16 with 2323 views | rsonist |
| Mr Holloway on 17:10 - Dec 16 by BazzaInTheLoft |
Does Olly get one of his strikes back for this or not? I'm confused? |
As I said to my missus the other day, one swallow doesn't make a summer.
What it does remind us is that quality of coaching is always more important than how much money we do or don't have to hand. Brum spent £20m on players we'd kill for and they can't get a tune out of them. Our squad hasn't remotely reached its ceiling and FFP isn't the reason why. [Post edited 16 Dec 2017 18:35]
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| Mr Holloway on 19:21 - Dec 16 with 2218 views | BazzaInTheLoft |
| Mr Holloway on 18:35 - Dec 16 by rsonist |
As I said to my missus the other day, one swallow doesn't make a summer.
What it does remind us is that quality of coaching is always more important than how much money we do or don't have to hand. Brum spent £20m on players we'd kill for and they can't get a tune out of them. Our squad hasn't remotely reached its ceiling and FFP isn't the reason why. [Post edited 16 Dec 2017 18:35]
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Of course you are right. We may well lose again next Saturday.
But as Norf said, there is too much change at the moment and 12 out of 14 appointments since Olly was last here have been failures. Do you trust the club to get the call right this time?
Might as well hold on. It’s just as risky as sacking him and a lot less expensive. [Post edited 16 Dec 2017 19:23]
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| Mr Holloway on 21:14 - Dec 16 with 2137 views | isawqpratwcity |
| Mr Holloway on 19:21 - Dec 16 by BazzaInTheLoft |
Of course you are right. We may well lose again next Saturday.
But as Norf said, there is too much change at the moment and 12 out of 14 appointments since Olly was last here have been failures. Do you trust the club to get the call right this time?
Might as well hold on. It’s just as risky as sacking him and a lot less expensive. [Post edited 16 Dec 2017 19:23]
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This win goes a long way to help that. |  |
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| Mr Holloway on 21:28 - Dec 16 with 2105 views | CiderwithRsie |
| Mr Holloway on 19:21 - Dec 16 by BazzaInTheLoft |
Of course you are right. We may well lose again next Saturday.
But as Norf said, there is too much change at the moment and 12 out of 14 appointments since Olly was last here have been failures. Do you trust the club to get the call right this time?
Might as well hold on. It’s just as risky as sacking him and a lot less expensive. [Post edited 16 Dec 2017 19:23]
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As it happens I agree with Rsonist on the importance of coaching and on under-performance. But leaving aside your (valid) point about risk the other thing is that almost any new manager is going to want to change the squad and bring in players. We just can't afford radical change to the squad, it's got to be evolution from the current players.
For me that means Holloway has to be an absolute car-crash before I want him to go this season, and preferably I'd like him here next season too. I wouldn't say no to a bit of succession planning though, especially if it meant getting a good assistant coach in place (lined up to take over in a year or so) in the meantime. | | | |
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| Mr Holloway on 22:20 - Dec 16 with 2058 views | daveB |
A lot made of Bircham and questions asked of him recently so good to see Holloway give him some praise for studying the opposition and noticing a weakness from corners which we managed to exploit and score from |  | | |
| Mr Holloway on 04:13 - Dec 17 with 1960 views | BazzaInTheLoft |
| Mr Holloway on 21:28 - Dec 16 by CiderwithRsie |
As it happens I agree with Rsonist on the importance of coaching and on under-performance. But leaving aside your (valid) point about risk the other thing is that almost any new manager is going to want to change the squad and bring in players. We just can't afford radical change to the squad, it's got to be evolution from the current players.
For me that means Holloway has to be an absolute car-crash before I want him to go this season, and preferably I'd like him here next season too. I wouldn't say no to a bit of succession planning though, especially if it meant getting a good assistant coach in place (lined up to take over in a year or so) in the meantime. |
When West Brom’s stock was high a few years ago I remember their chairman saying that they always had a few managers in mind on a shortlist for when the inevitable happened. | | | |
| Mr Holloway on 07:48 - Dec 17 with 1858 views | PlanetHonneywood |
| Mr Holloway on 21:28 - Dec 16 by CiderwithRsie |
As it happens I agree with Rsonist on the importance of coaching and on under-performance. But leaving aside your (valid) point about risk the other thing is that almost any new manager is going to want to change the squad and bring in players. We just can't afford radical change to the squad, it's got to be evolution from the current players.
For me that means Holloway has to be an absolute car-crash before I want him to go this season, and preferably I'd like him here next season too. I wouldn't say no to a bit of succession planning though, especially if it meant getting a good assistant coach in place (lined up to take over in a year or so) in the meantime. |
A reasonably solid, sensible and erudite assessment of the situation.
All well and good coming from the Rfosi, but the only question I suppose; do we think the boardroom thinks along such lines? |  |
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| Mr Holloway on 07:54 - Dec 17 with 1851 views | Lblock |
I’m sad to say that Ollies race is run
Have you seen his post match from yesterday? He looks bloody awful and reminds me of the last time he departed after the Queens Park Strangers debacle
Let’s face it; we just about beat the current worst team in the division who have so little confidence they look like Bambi in open ground on the first day of the hunting season. We needed a young left back, playing CB, held together with gaffa tape, to pop up with his first two senior goals ever to see us home. We allowed Brum to dictate for large periods and our lack of pace was evident again. Brum fans are amazed they got their 11th goal of the season and also feel we are the worst side they’ve had at St Andrews this year (after their own). It doesn’t bode well.
Very, very sad and worrying; I hope Ollie comes out of this okay on a personal level.
As shouted from the rooftops, what happens next? We are severely limited as to what type of Manager will come in due to constrictions at the club
I do, of course, trace culpability for all this back to Bungles door. The sad fact is we had the Manager we needed at the club back in November last year; it’s just that meant the end of Sir Les IF we’d of appointed him
He’s now leading a squad of limited players on an amazing run and getting 1,000% out of them by playing to their strengths and keeping things simple. He’s added shrewd buys for not a lot of dosh and got a blend of pace, muscle and skill; Christ, he’s even getting a tune out of Junior WC.
And we let him go.......
I still hope Ollie can turn this around but my head screams he’s a broken man and we’re in for more pain and heartache |  |
| Cherish and enjoy life.... this ain't no dress rehearsal |
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| Mr Holloway on 08:14 - Dec 17 with 1829 views | PlanetHonneywood |
| Mr Holloway on 07:54 - Dec 17 by Lblock |
I’m sad to say that Ollies race is run
Have you seen his post match from yesterday? He looks bloody awful and reminds me of the last time he departed after the Queens Park Strangers debacle
Let’s face it; we just about beat the current worst team in the division who have so little confidence they look like Bambi in open ground on the first day of the hunting season. We needed a young left back, playing CB, held together with gaffa tape, to pop up with his first two senior goals ever to see us home. We allowed Brum to dictate for large periods and our lack of pace was evident again. Brum fans are amazed they got their 11th goal of the season and also feel we are the worst side they’ve had at St Andrews this year (after their own). It doesn’t bode well.
Very, very sad and worrying; I hope Ollie comes out of this okay on a personal level.
As shouted from the rooftops, what happens next? We are severely limited as to what type of Manager will come in due to constrictions at the club
I do, of course, trace culpability for all this back to Bungles door. The sad fact is we had the Manager we needed at the club back in November last year; it’s just that meant the end of Sir Les IF we’d of appointed him
He’s now leading a squad of limited players on an amazing run and getting 1,000% out of them by playing to their strengths and keeping things simple. He’s added shrewd buys for not a lot of dosh and got a blend of pace, muscle and skill; Christ, he’s even getting a tune out of Junior WC.
And we let him go.......
I still hope Ollie can turn this around but my head screams he’s a broken man and we’re in for more pain and heartache |
I haven't seen the post-match, but he always exudes the air of a man who could easily lose it, and be seen exiting in a straight jacket with men in white coats saying, 'there, there, we'll have a cup of tea!'
It was always going to be a gamble. I too would love it to work, I think we're all very fond of him. And certainly there were times last year things looked a little more positive. But I thought he'd left managing for a reason and as we debated our 56th manager in 4 years, none of us were seriously thinking he was in the frame.
But you've touched upon an issue here; is all of this affecting Olly's mental health. He of course could be as happy as a badger in mating season, but maybe what you've seen in the post-match, is a man working under great stress and strain. I think we all hope that he is ok.
I'd love it when he leaves us, that it's with head held high and that having taken over when we were in the plop, he does what he ultimately did what he managed us eleven years back; leave us better off than when he was appointed.
But God knows what's going on down there at the Big Top. I am sure if we knew what's really happening, we too would look like we'd seen a ghost.
QPR eh? | |
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| Mr Holloway on 08:51 - Dec 17 with 1787 views | daveB |
I thought Holloway looked fine in the post match interview, he clearly wants to stay and turn this around and yesterday was a good starting point | | | |
| Mr Holloway on 09:06 - Dec 17 with 1770 views | 2Thomas2Bowles |
| Mr Holloway on 08:51 - Dec 17 by daveB |
I thought Holloway looked fine in the post match interview, he clearly wants to stay and turn this around and yesterday was a good starting point |
Yeah did not see a lot wrong with him apart from its winter and he looks cold.
I'm sure he wishes we were playing better and Washington actually knew where the goal is from 7 yards out, maybe the corner flag confused him. [Post edited 17 Dec 2017 9:06]
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| Mr Holloway on 09:08 - Dec 17 with 1762 views | Benny_the_Ball |
| Mr Holloway on 18:32 - Dec 16 by Hunterhoop |
You're confused.
The FFP panel didn't buy the £60m "gift" the Board gave and was accounted for as revenue in the Redknapp promotion season that the FFP fine is related to.
The £180m debt conversion to shares (i.e. worthless unless someone is willing to pay for those shares) happened years later and has nothing to do with FFP fine.
What I said about the debt that QPR Holdings have was spot on. Clearly, the owners could recoup money if people were willing to pay it, but they won't, unless we're in the Prem.
That's why we're on this "spend nothing, do not risk a 2nd FFP fine" approach. The Board have swallowed £250m odd and are unwilling to stomach much more, but they'll recoup absolutely nothing if they try to leave now. So, we're trying to balance the books, rebuild, and, if we look like getting back in the Prem (i.e. in or near the play offs) watch them look to sell then. That's when they'll get something for those shares. |
Thanks for the explanation but it's still rather missing the point. The question was whether the current administration has run the club well. The answer is No because they racked up a quarter of a billion £ of debt with nothing tangible to show for it. Just because these debts were later creatively accounted for doesn't alter their track record.
Having run the club so badly they have moved to the other extreme which is spend nothing. This has hamstrung the transfer budget which is why Olly deserves a bit of slack despite the recent run of poor results. [Post edited 17 Dec 2017 9:32]
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| Mr Holloway on 09:11 - Dec 17 with 1751 views | JamesB1979 |
| Mr Holloway on 18:32 - Dec 16 by Hunterhoop |
You're confused.
The FFP panel didn't buy the £60m "gift" the Board gave and was accounted for as revenue in the Redknapp promotion season that the FFP fine is related to.
The £180m debt conversion to shares (i.e. worthless unless someone is willing to pay for those shares) happened years later and has nothing to do with FFP fine.
What I said about the debt that QPR Holdings have was spot on. Clearly, the owners could recoup money if people were willing to pay it, but they won't, unless we're in the Prem.
That's why we're on this "spend nothing, do not risk a 2nd FFP fine" approach. The Board have swallowed £250m odd and are unwilling to stomach much more, but they'll recoup absolutely nothing if they try to leave now. So, we're trying to balance the books, rebuild, and, if we look like getting back in the Prem (i.e. in or near the play offs) watch them look to sell then. That's when they'll get something for those shares. |
I thought they wrote off some debt and this exceptional gain then improved our profitability? What was the gift revenue and in which year?
In any event, everyone still keeps seeing shareholder loans as debt....it isn’t. Its shareholder money.
We breached FFP because of our profitability not because of any debt issues. | | | |
| Mr Holloway on 09:17 - Dec 17 with 1739 views | Benny_the_Ball |
| Mr Holloway on 14:28 - Dec 16 by BazzaInTheLoft |
When was the last time you were happy with the way things were run out of interest? |
When Briatore was forced to take a back seat and Amit briefly took the reins. If only Tango and Cash had sold to Mittal instead of Fernandes. | | | |
| Mr Holloway on 09:30 - Dec 17 with 1721 views | Benny_the_Ball |
| Mr Holloway on 09:11 - Dec 17 by JamesB1979 |
I thought they wrote off some debt and this exceptional gain then improved our profitability? What was the gift revenue and in which year?
In any event, everyone still keeps seeing shareholder loans as debt....it isn’t. Its shareholder money.
We breached FFP because of our profitability not because of any debt issues. |
QPR recorded a loss but the FFP panel disagreed with the levels recorded in the official accounts. As Hunter explained the £60m "gift" was ignored in FFP calculations. [Post edited 17 Dec 2017 9:34]
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| Mr Holloway on 09:43 - Dec 17 with 1696 views | LythamR |
| Mr Holloway on 09:17 - Dec 17 by Benny_the_Ball |
When Briatore was forced to take a back seat and Amit briefly took the reins. If only Tango and Cash had sold to Mittal instead of Fernandes. |
Are we still doing this "if only" stuff
for the 12 millionth time, Amit and Mittal could easily have bought the club when T @ C sold out
THEY SIMPLY DIDNT WANT IT, or they would have it |  | | |
| Mr Holloway on 09:51 - Dec 17 with 1675 views | Benny_the_Ball |
| Mr Holloway on 09:43 - Dec 17 by LythamR |
Are we still doing this "if only" stuff
for the 12 millionth time, Amit and Mittal could easily have bought the club when T @ C sold out
THEY SIMPLY DIDNT WANT IT, or they would have it |
Incorrect. Mittal made a fair offer which T&C rejected. [Post edited 17 Dec 2017 10:18]
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| Mr Holloway on 09:52 - Dec 17 with 1676 views | JamesB1979 |
| Mr Holloway on 09:30 - Dec 17 by Benny_the_Ball |
QPR recorded a loss but the FFP panel disagreed with the levels recorded in the official accounts. As Hunter explained the £60m "gift" was ignored in FFP calculations. [Post edited 17 Dec 2017 9:34]
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Yes they didn’t accept our write-off of the loan, leading to exceptional profit in the p&l. No revenue though not that I can remember. | | | |
| Mr Holloway on 10:15 - Dec 17 with 1644 views | Benny_the_Ball |
| Mr Holloway on 17:29 - Dec 13 by PinnerPaul |
Yep sod the elderly, sick children and the local community.
As long as we can over pay players to finish 16th in the 2nd tier AND of course that much more important fact, play the correct formation - who cares about helping real life people?  |
Worry yee not; all proceeds from the FFP Fair Play Tax go to charity so QPR are doing more than their fair share. | | | |
| Mr Holloway on 12:39 - Dec 17 with 1536 views | LythamR |
| Mr Holloway on 09:51 - Dec 17 by Benny_the_Ball |
Incorrect. Mittal made a fair offer which T&C rejected. [Post edited 17 Dec 2017 10:18]
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who says it was a fair offer?, i have never seen the specific details, if the mittals had really wanted it they could have upped it a fiver couldnt they? i mean if they really wanted it. | | | |
| Mr Holloway on 12:45 - Dec 17 with 1521 views | PinnerPaul |
| Mr Holloway on 09:43 - Dec 17 by LythamR |
Are we still doing this "if only" stuff
for the 12 millionth time, Amit and Mittal could easily have bought the club when T @ C sold out
THEY SIMPLY DIDNT WANT IT, or they would have it |
Hooray! As you say how many more times - if one of the top 10 richest families in the world want to buy something - anything - they will buy it.
They didn't/don't want to! | | | |
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