| Point Deductions. 10:32 - Jul 16 with 9341 views | ted_hendrix |
What is the score with the point deductions does anybody know or have an inkling?
I was under the impression that Wigan, Sheffield Wednesday and to a lesser extent Derby County were under threat?
Surely they are not going to wait until the end of the season (next Wednesday) before making any announcement. |  |
| My Father had a profound influence on me, he was a lunatic. |
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| Point Deductions. on 22:48 - Jul 17 with 2145 views | terryb |
| Point Deductions. on 21:58 - Jul 17 by QPR_John |
"I find it very amusing that some of our supporters consider us hard done by when followers of all the other Championship clubs consider we were let off lightly."
Who would have thought.
But its not the FL place to "want a pound of flesh". Makes you wonder how impartial they were. [Post edited 17 Jul 2020 22:02]
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I won't post another word after this.
Why should they have been impartial? They implemented the penalty that was in the regulations & voted for by the EFL clubs.
From memory, the regulations stated that if you lost over £8 million but less than £18 million you would be fined x amount on a sliding scale.
If you lost more than £18 million you would be fined £1 million for every million you lost. Therefore, own owners traded at an enormoud loss knowing that they would incur the fine they were given.
I would compare it to the saying of "If you can't do the time, don't do the crime".
To be fair, the club never denied their guilt & appealed on the grounds that we should be judged on the regulations in place when judgement was served rather than those in place when we "overspent".
Whether we would have been better off if that had happened is open to debate. A points deduction for season 15/16 wouldn't have relegated us, but a points deduction for the season when the case was finalised would have done.
I would also add that unlike others, I don't think Rangers did vote for the FFP regulation as we were in the Premier League when it was approved. However, we rejoined the EFL with it in place & knowing what the expectations/penalties were. [Post edited 18 Jul 2020 0:13]
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| Point Deductions. on 23:00 - Jul 17 with 2135 views | francisbowles |
| Point Deductions. on 22:48 - Jul 17 by terryb |
I won't post another word after this.
Why should they have been impartial? They implemented the penalty that was in the regulations & voted for by the EFL clubs.
From memory, the regulations stated that if you lost over £8 million but less than £18 million you would be fined x amount on a sliding scale.
If you lost more than £18 million you would be fined £1 million for every million you lost. Therefore, own owners traded at an enormoud loss knowing that they would incur the fine they were given.
I would compare it to the saying of "If you can't do the time, don't do the crime".
To be fair, the club never denied their guilt & appealed on the grounds that we should be judged on the regulations in place when judgement was served rather than those in place when we "overspent".
Whether we would have been better off if that had happened is open to debate. A points deduction for season 15/16 wouldn't have relegated us, but a points deduction for the season when the case was finalised would have done.
I would also add that unlike others, I don't think Rangers did vote for the FFP regulation as we were in the Premier League when it was approved. However, we rejoined the EFL with it in place & knowing what the expectations/penalties were. [Post edited 18 Jul 2020 0:13]
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Agree terryb and some you win, some you lose. We were extremely fortunate only to get a fine for Faurlingate, which we recovered multiple times in the premier league revenue for the two seasons we were up.
Even with the FFP fine, our income from 2014/15, when we had previously cheated to get promotion, was well in excess of the fine and capital injection.
Unfortunately, we still managed to waste all that money and more by overspending on mercenary recruits. | | | |
| Point Deductions. on 11:41 - Jul 18 with 2048 views | QPR_John |
| Point Deductions. on 23:00 - Jul 17 by francisbowles |
Agree terryb and some you win, some you lose. We were extremely fortunate only to get a fine for Faurlingate, which we recovered multiple times in the premier league revenue for the two seasons we were up.
Even with the FFP fine, our income from 2014/15, when we had previously cheated to get promotion, was well in excess of the fine and capital injection.
Unfortunately, we still managed to waste all that money and more by overspending on mercenary recruits. |
"We were extremely fortunate only to get a fine for Faurlingate, which we recovered multiple times in the premier league revenue for the two seasons we were up."
Not fortunate but a case of not guilty. Do you really think the FL would not have docked us points if they had a case. | | | |
| Point Deductions. on 13:03 - Jul 18 with 1983 views | francisbowles |
| Point Deductions. on 11:41 - Jul 18 by QPR_John |
"We were extremely fortunate only to get a fine for Faurlingate, which we recovered multiple times in the premier league revenue for the two seasons we were up."
Not fortunate but a case of not guilty. Do you really think the FL would not have docked us points if they had a case. |
We weren't found not guilty, otherwise why were we fined? | | | |
| Point Deductions. on 14:27 - Jul 18 with 1931 views | QPR_John |
| Point Deductions. on 13:03 - Jul 18 by francisbowles |
We weren't found not guilty, otherwise why were we fined? |
Not guilty of the charge that would have resulted in a points deduction. I repeat do you really think if they had the opportunity the FL would have not have docked us points | | | |
| Point Deductions. on 12:43 - Jul 19 with 1850 views | francisbowles |
| Point Deductions. on 14:27 - Jul 18 by QPR_John |
Not guilty of the charge that would have resulted in a points deduction. I repeat do you really think if they had the opportunity the FL would have not have docked us points |
I don't know QPRJohn but I don't think that Paladini was a saint and his absolute relief that we weren't said it all for me. If we weren't guilty why didn't we hand over the documents?
We could, allegedly, have been guilty of a lot more e.g. fraud!
Btw it wasn't the league on that occasion it was the FA.
Something similar happened earlier with West Ham and Tevez/Macherano.
https://www.theguardian.com/fo [Post edited 19 Jul 2020 12:43]
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| Point Deductions. on 13:09 - Jul 19 with 1807 views | Northernr |
I always thought we were lucky with Faurlin. The timing of the hearing so close to the end of the season, and QPR preparing a big legal fuss over the FA leaks to The Sun the week before, meant a fine suited everybody but if you read the judgement in full it found that QPR had "gained a sporting advantage" over other Championship teams by signing a player in a manner and for a price that other clubs operating within the rules wouldn't have been able to do. Once you're found to have gained a sporting advantage that's usually a good starting place for a sporting sanction - i.e. points deduction. Once they'd reached that conclusion there was some weird and wonderful stuff in the report to justify not taking points off, including some amazing testimony from David Pleat as an independent football expert saying that transfering players in and out doesn't really affect a team one way or another and one player can never make that much difference anyway so don't worry about it. |  | | |
| Point Deductions. on 17:05 - Jul 20 with 1666 views | Northernr |
No outcomes on Wigan, Derby or Sheff Wed before Wednesday's fixtures.
So the bottom three after the final game of the season might not actually be the bottom three come... whenever they pull their fingers out.
https://www.theguardian.com/fo | | | |
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| Point Deductions. on 17:30 - Jul 20 with 1620 views | terryb |
| Point Deductions. on 17:05 - Jul 20 by Northernr |
No outcomes on Wigan, Derby or Sheff Wed before Wednesday's fixtures.
So the bottom three after the final game of the season might not actually be the bottom three come... whenever they pull their fingers out.
https://www.theguardian.com/fo |
That is incredible!
That brings Brum & 'boro back into the list of relegation possibilities. | | | |
| Point Deductions. on 17:31 - Jul 20 with 1610 views | Northernr |
| Point Deductions. on 17:30 - Jul 20 by terryb |
That is incredible!
That brings Brum & 'boro back into the list of relegation possibilities. |
It also means that in a close season already way shorter than usual, 8-10 clubs don't know whether they're planning, budgeting and buying for League One or Championship football. | | | |
| Point Deductions. on 17:40 - Jul 20 with 1587 views | terryb |
| Point Deductions. on 17:31 - Jul 20 by Northernr |
It also means that in a close season already way shorter than usual, 8-10 clubs don't know whether they're planning, budgeting and buying for League One or Championship football. |
Or whether they should consider reducing ticket prices to help sell ST's for a lower division.
I know the Wigan problem is fairly new, but the other two club's should have been dealt with a lot earlier. They didn't have to wait till the end of March to hear the cases & then find Covid has intervened.*
* I've no idea if they were planned for the end of March, but why else have they not been heard? | | | |
| Point Deductions. on 17:42 - Jul 20 with 1575 views | stevec |
| Point Deductions. on 17:05 - Jul 20 by Northernr |
No outcomes on Wigan, Derby or Sheff Wed before Wednesday's fixtures.
So the bottom three after the final game of the season might not actually be the bottom three come... whenever they pull their fingers out.
https://www.theguardian.com/fo |
Farcical.
If it can’t be done before the final games are completed then Derby and Wednesday should start next season on minus points.
As for Wigan, there must be a set of rules and regulations drawn up already, either carry that out before Wednesday or take the 12 points off next season.
EFL is such a mess, clubs should withdraw from competition until a new body is sorted out. 7 weeks or not, I suspect the Premier League would step in. |  | | |
| Point Deductions. on 17:44 - Jul 20 with 1570 views | ted_hendrix |
| Point Deductions. on 17:31 - Jul 20 by Northernr |
It also means that in a close season already way shorter than usual, 8-10 clubs don't know whether they're planning, budgeting and buying for League One or Championship football. |
"The powers that be" eh?
You couldn't script this nonsense it's unnecessary. | |
| My Father had a profound influence on me, he was a lunatic. |
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| Point Deductions. on 17:58 - Jul 20 with 1536 views | NewBee |
| Point Deductions. on 17:42 - Jul 20 by stevec |
Farcical.
If it can’t be done before the final games are completed then Derby and Wednesday should start next season on minus points.
As for Wigan, there must be a set of rules and regulations drawn up already, either carry that out before Wednesday or take the 12 points off next season.
EFL is such a mess, clubs should withdraw from competition until a new body is sorted out. 7 weeks or not, I suspect the Premier League would step in. |
Re your 1st para, I can't agree.
For while Derby and S.Wed should certainly have been sorted before now, nonetheless if they benefited this season from dodgy dealing last season, then with one proviso, the punishment should apply to this season. Which formally ends on 04 August, not Wednesday.
(The proviso is that if either club still escapes relegation even with a deduction, then the deduction should move to next season, otherwise it's a mere gesture, not a proper punishment.) [Post edited 20 Jul 2020 17:59]
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| Point Deductions. on 18:41 - Jul 20 with 1470 views | stevec |
| Point Deductions. on 17:58 - Jul 20 by NewBee |
Re your 1st para, I can't agree.
For while Derby and S.Wed should certainly have been sorted before now, nonetheless if they benefited this season from dodgy dealing last season, then with one proviso, the punishment should apply to this season. Which formally ends on 04 August, not Wednesday.
(The proviso is that if either club still escapes relegation even with a deduction, then the deduction should move to next season, otherwise it's a mere gesture, not a proper punishment.) [Post edited 20 Jul 2020 17:59]
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Well if I thought there’d be a proviso then I’d go along with that.
Fact is, this is Derby and Sheffield Wednesday we are talking about, there’s no chance whatsoever the EFL would have the balls to deduct enough points after the season end to relegate them and I very much doubt they’d have the guts to include that proviso either. | | | |
| Point Deductions. on 20:21 - Jul 20 with 1370 views | connell10 |
| Point Deductions. on 14:53 - Jul 16 by terryb |
I understood that there is a deadline.
My "source" on all things football finance related told me that the deadline had been extended by three months this year & Derby still failed to submit in time!
BTW my source is not employed by any club, but has posted many articles on FFP & finance on this site as well as AKUTR's. |
I deduce it was The reverend Dorset in the library using a length of rope. |  |
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| Point Deductions. on 21:31 - Jul 20 with 1270 views | daveB |
This is getting beyond a joke, how can they not take 12 points off Wigan, that seems pretty straight forward. I know it's harsh but if they can get away with that whats to stop ay other club doing the same and wiping out all debts |  | | |
| Point Deductions. on 09:22 - Jul 21 with 1107 views | francisbowles |
I can't get past a big blue cookie banner across this, what does it say? | | | |
| Point Deductions. on 09:43 - Jul 21 with 1074 views | BazzaInTheLoft |
| Point Deductions. on 21:31 - Jul 20 by daveB |
This is getting beyond a joke, how can they not take 12 points off Wigan, that seems pretty straight forward. I know it's harsh but if they can get away with that whats to stop ay other club doing the same and wiping out all debts |
I don’t think Wigan fans have got away with anything. |  | | |
| Point Deductions. on 09:50 - Jul 21 with 1049 views | DannyPaddox |
| Point Deductions. on 17:05 - Jul 20 by Northernr |
No outcomes on Wigan, Derby or Sheff Wed before Wednesday's fixtures.
So the bottom three after the final game of the season might not actually be the bottom three come... whenever they pull their fingers out.
https://www.theguardian.com/fo |
Wigan, who are 13th, have appealed against a 12-point deduction for entering administration on the grounds of “farce majeure” |  | | |
| Point Deductions. on 10:10 - Jul 21 with 1013 views | lave16 |
| Point Deductions. on 09:50 - Jul 21 by DannyPaddox |
Wigan, who are 13th, have appealed against a 12-point deduction for entering administration on the grounds of “farce majeure” |
Will villa get a pionts deduction if they come down - given the shenanigans when they went up? | |
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| Point Deductions. on 10:20 - Jul 21 with 993 views | QPR_John |
| Point Deductions. on 09:43 - Jul 21 by BazzaInTheLoft |
I don’t think Wigan fans have got away with anything. |
I dont think we, the fans, got away with anything either when the FL made an example of us. | | | |
| Point Deductions. on 10:47 - Jul 21 with 946 views | CroydonCaptJack |
| Point Deductions. on 10:10 - Jul 21 by lave16 |
Will villa get a pionts deduction if they come down - given the shenanigans when they went up? |
Fingers crossed.
Although given Watfords ridiculous sacking of Pearson I wouldn't write off the possibility of them taking that third slot. I bloody hope not. |  |
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| Point Deductions. on 11:51 - Jul 21 with 884 views | BazzaInTheLoft |
| Point Deductions. on 10:20 - Jul 21 by QPR_John |
I dont think we, the fans, got away with anything either when the FL made an example of us. |
Really? How much of that fine did you pay? | | | |
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