| Point Deductions. 10:32 - Jul 16 with 10509 views | ted_hendrix |
What is the score with the point deductions does anybody know or have an inkling?
I was under the impression that Wigan, Sheffield Wednesday and to a lesser extent Derby County were under threat?
Surely they are not going to wait until the end of the season (next Wednesday) before making any announcement. |  |
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| Point Deductions. on 17:54 - Jul 16 with 2627 views | LongsufferingR |
| Point Deductions. on 17:41 - Jul 16 by Hunterhoop |
Wigan surviving with a points deduction: good, fair play, that deduction had teeth but the players and staff overcame it. No issues from me. The chairman is the villain there.
Wednesday have had no punishment at all. A 12 point deduction is an irrelevance and no penalty at all. Either they take the 21 and go down OR hold it for next season. Otherwise there is no point.
Derby: surely will be next year and applicable then.
Villa: based on the logic of us being fined the moment we stepped back into the EFL’s territory, I expect the same of Villa, who got promoted through breaching FFP’s 3 year loss cap in 2 seasons, helping them trouser 120m or whatever grotesque figure it is, AND begin another 3 year set of parachute payments.
Bournemouth: they’ve should also be awaiting a whacking great fine upon their return. Didn’t they lose 39m in their promotion season alone?? Same as Villa please.
Those last 4 should all start on minus 12 next year unless Wednesday get relegated this year. |
Bournemouth already paid a fine agreed with EFL. https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/fo [Post edited 16 Jul 2020 17:55]
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| Point Deductions. on 18:04 - Jul 16 with 2585 views | Hunterhoop |
Bugger! |  | | |
| Point Deductions. on 18:15 - Jul 16 with 2568 views | OldPedro |
| Point Deductions. on 17:50 - Jul 16 by Hunterhoop |
Next season Swansea and Stoke should be battening down the hatches and offloading players as it is the last year of their parachute payments, I think.
Boro would be right in the shit. Their parachute payments will have run out, and given their squad you can only assume their salary costs are way too high to sustain. Their income will drop to our level! And who’s spending big money on their ageing cast of thousands?
Cardiff, Fulham and Huddersfield will all probably press the big gamble button given it’ll be their 2nd year of parachute payments. |
Huddersfield won't be gambling - they owe millions to their former owner Dean Hoyle https://www.examinerlive.co.uk |  |
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| Point Deductions. on 18:21 - Jul 16 with 2549 views | BrianMcCarthy |
| Point Deductions. on 13:15 - Jul 16 by stowmarketrange |
I think we were fined under the old rules of FFP,which basically stands for we will Finally F@ck Paladini.
They laws were changed after they’d got even with us from 2010-11. |
Correct. Funny. Correct.
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| Point Deductions. on 18:46 - Jul 16 with 2509 views | BazzaInTheLoft |
Did Leicester ever settle up in their promotion season or was that pre FFP? |  | | |
| Point Deductions. on 19:04 - Jul 16 with 2471 views | LongsufferingR |
| Point Deductions. on 18:46 - Jul 16 by BazzaInTheLoft |
Did Leicester ever settle up in their promotion season or was that pre FFP? |
Yes, they paid a fine around the same time. We made the basic error of coming straight back down otherwise we would also have agreed a reduced fine. | | | |
| Point Deductions. on 01:32 - Jul 17 with 2308 views | NewBee |
| Point Deductions. on 17:50 - Jul 16 by Hunterhoop |
Next season Swansea and Stoke should be battening down the hatches and offloading players as it is the last year of their parachute payments, I think.
Boro would be right in the shit. Their parachute payments will have run out, and given their squad you can only assume their salary costs are way too high to sustain. Their income will drop to our level! And who’s spending big money on their ageing cast of thousands?
Cardiff, Fulham and Huddersfield will all probably press the big gamble button given it’ll be their 2nd year of parachute payments. |
Dunno about Swansea, but as I understand it, Stoke may not be able to sell players next season, unless they can find a buyer who will pay what they spent on them, or close to it (unlikely, since they paid over-the-odds for a lot of crap.)
This is to do with amortisation of their losses, as follows.
If eg they spend £16m on a player and give him a four year contract, that goes down in the books as £4m a year.
But if they sell him after 2 years for, say, £10m, they've crystalised a £6m loss early. (I think this means they lhave to book a £2m loss in year three, and £4m in year four, though I could have this wrong?)
Anyhow, this is why they loaned out a whole load of players, some of them expensive purchases, at the start of the season, and spent buttons on signing replacements. That way, they at least reduce their wage bill (though even there I expect they had to "help" the borrowing clubs, by continuing to part-pay them while out on loan.) [Post edited 17 Jul 2020 1:35]
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| Point Deductions. on 08:24 - Jul 17 with 2221 views | TheChef |
| Point Deductions. on 17:50 - Jul 16 by Hunterhoop |
Next season Swansea and Stoke should be battening down the hatches and offloading players as it is the last year of their parachute payments, I think.
Boro would be right in the shit. Their parachute payments will have run out, and given their squad you can only assume their salary costs are way too high to sustain. Their income will drop to our level! And who’s spending big money on their ageing cast of thousands?
Cardiff, Fulham and Huddersfield will all probably press the big gamble button given it’ll be their 2nd year of parachute payments. |
Interesting what you say about Boro - I thought Warnock took that job for similar reasons as he went to Cardiff; keep them up, and then with the quality players available make a promotion push the following season. Looked like a good bet. |  |
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| Point Deductions. on 10:01 - Jul 17 with 2158 views | francisbowles |
| Point Deductions. on 17:41 - Jul 16 by Hunterhoop |
Wigan surviving with a points deduction: good, fair play, that deduction had teeth but the players and staff overcame it. No issues from me. The chairman is the villain there.
Wednesday have had no punishment at all. A 12 point deduction is an irrelevance and no penalty at all. Either they take the 21 and go down OR hold it for next season. Otherwise there is no point.
Derby: surely will be next year and applicable then.
Villa: based on the logic of us being fined the moment we stepped back into the EFL’s territory, I expect the same of Villa, who got promoted through breaching FFP’s 3 year loss cap in 2 seasons, helping them trouser 120m or whatever grotesque figure it is, AND begin another 3 year set of parachute payments.
Bournemouth: they’ve should also be awaiting a whacking great fine upon their return. Didn’t they lose 39m in their promotion season alone?? Same as Villa please.
Those last 4 should all start on minus 12 next year unless Wednesday get relegated this year. |
Didn't Bournemouth (and Leicester) come to a settlement with the Football League several years back.? | | | |
| Point Deductions. on 12:28 - Jul 17 with 2069 views | Benny_the_Ball |
| Point Deductions. on 13:15 - Jul 16 by stowmarketrange |
I think we were fined under the old rules of FFP,which basically stands for we will Finally F@ck Paladini.
They laws were changed after they’d got even with us from 2010-11. |
Indeed. QPR breached FFP under the old rules but tried to leverage the new ones in their defence.
It should also be noted that QPR's settlement included no points deduction. A 12 point deduction would have relegated QPR in 2 of the last 3 seasons. [Post edited 17 Jul 2020 12:45]
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| Point Deductions. on 13:22 - Jul 17 with 2019 views | BrianMcCarthy |
| Point Deductions. on 12:28 - Jul 17 by Benny_the_Ball |
Indeed. QPR breached FFP under the old rules but tried to leverage the new ones in their defence.
It should also be noted that QPR's settlement included no points deduction. A 12 point deduction would have relegated QPR in 2 of the last 3 seasons. [Post edited 17 Jul 2020 12:45]
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Yes, another good point.
I get weary sometimes of us as fans bemoaning our bad luck. We voted for FFP, broke the rules on an epic scale, got no points deduction, and weren't relegated to League 1.
Others may have got away lightly under the new rules. But we deserved everything we got after cheating and benefiting from doing so. | |
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| Point Deductions. on 13:46 - Jul 17 with 1966 views | Hunterhoop |
| Point Deductions. on 13:22 - Jul 17 by BrianMcCarthy |
Yes, another good point.
I get weary sometimes of us as fans bemoaning our bad luck. We voted for FFP, broke the rules on an epic scale, got no points deduction, and weren't relegated to League 1.
Others may have got away lightly under the new rules. But we deserved everything we got after cheating and benefiting from doing so. |
All true, Benny and Bri, BUT
That was in 2013/14.
We are paying our fine (well the owners are) and have since obeyed and followed FFP to the letter. We have taken our punishment. And if they’d applied a points deduction and no fine in the season we returned (15/16), when we received the fine, we’d have stayed up still.
Unless other teams receive either a financial penalty or points deduction which actually impacts their club, we will have been unfairly treated, because we’re obeying the rules and have been for 4 straight seasons. | | | |
| Point Deductions. on 13:57 - Jul 17 with 1946 views | R_from_afar |
| Point Deductions. on 13:22 - Jul 17 by BrianMcCarthy |
Yes, another good point.
I get weary sometimes of us as fans bemoaning our bad luck. We voted for FFP, broke the rules on an epic scale, got no points deduction, and weren't relegated to League 1.
Others may have got away lightly under the new rules. But we deserved everything we got after cheating and benefiting from doing so. |
Our legal challenge was based on a long established legal principle, lex mitior*, so it's perhaps not as lame as it may at first sight appear.
*The principle of lex mitior is understood to mean that, if the law relevant to the offence of the accused has been amended, the less severe law should be applied. |  |
| "Things had started becoming increasingly desperate at Loftus Road but QPR have been handed a massive lifeline and the place has absolutely erupted. it's carnage. It's bedlam. It's 1-1." |
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| Point Deductions. on 14:05 - Jul 17 with 1938 views | NewBee |
Regardless of whether points deductions are "fair" or not, experience persuaded the EFL that fines weren't an effective/acceptable punishment for breaching FFP.
This is basically because wealthy owners weren't deterred by having to spend a bit more of their money to pay the fine, and if you hiked the fines to mega levels, you'd never get it past the courts. (Possibly explains why the EFL reduced QPR's fine and allowed payment in installments?)
Meanwhile, owners who can't or won't pay the fine could end up putting the club into administration, which no-one really wants. | | | |
| Point Deductions. on 14:13 - Jul 17 with 1921 views | QPR_John |
| Point Deductions. on 12:28 - Jul 17 by Benny_the_Ball |
Indeed. QPR breached FFP under the old rules but tried to leverage the new ones in their defence.
It should also be noted that QPR's settlement included no points deduction. A 12 point deduction would have relegated QPR in 2 of the last 3 seasons. [Post edited 17 Jul 2020 12:45]
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Was it the case that the rules were materially changed or that the punishment was made more lenient for more or less the same rules | | | |
| Point Deductions. on 14:28 - Jul 17 with 1883 views | francisbowles |
I think the sanctions for breaking the rules at the time we did were only fines. Points deductions came in with the amended rules. However, a one window transfer ban was applied which hadn't been a sanction at that time either.
Our fine was also approximately half of what it could/should have been under the rules. The league allowed a capital investment for the remainder. The owners had initially, in the financial results, tried to make a capital investment to cover the whole loss but that wasn't allowed.
In other words they make it up as they go along! | | | |
| Point Deductions. on 15:57 - Jul 17 with 1818 views | themodfather |
with the "feared" meltdown of many clubs, could there be a deduction amnesty? also leagues can't have an annual scrape enough pts to avoid the drop and then go into "admin" .
the FL slaughtered lootown over 2 seasons....for telling the truth over agents fees ( mike newell) . rules are being manipulated by "the suits". | | | |
| Point Deductions. on 16:09 - Jul 17 with 1805 views | terryb |
| Point Deductions. on 14:13 - Jul 17 by QPR_John |
Was it the case that the rules were materially changed or that the punishment was made more lenient for more or less the same rules |
The rules changed drastically.
Previously FFP only allowed a loss of £x million in a season rather than the £39 million over a rolling three years.
Personally, I think the change was mainly brought about by the actions of Queens Park Rangers. Nobody had ever considered that a club would ingore FFP ro the extent of losing over £60 million in a season! | | | |
| Point Deductions. on 16:50 - Jul 17 with 1766 views | QPR_John |
| Point Deductions. on 16:09 - Jul 17 by terryb |
The rules changed drastically.
Previously FFP only allowed a loss of £x million in a season rather than the £39 million over a rolling three years.
Personally, I think the change was mainly brought about by the actions of Queens Park Rangers. Nobody had ever considered that a club would ingore FFP ro the extent of losing over £60 million in a season! |
Was x less than 13 | | | |
| Point Deductions. on 16:54 - Jul 17 with 1758 views | terryb |
| Point Deductions. on 16:50 - Jul 17 by QPR_John |
Was x less than 13 |
I think it was £8 million but others would know more than me! | | | |
| Point Deductions. on 17:05 - Jul 17 with 1749 views | QPR_John |
| Point Deductions. on 16:54 - Jul 17 by terryb |
I think it was £8 million but others would know more than me! |
So in effect FFP was changed to be less restrictive £39M over three years as oppose to £24M. So you would have thought the one team severely punished under the old rules which the FL themselves concluded were too harsh might have a case to have their punishment reduced. | | | |
| Point Deductions. on 17:12 - Jul 17 with 1740 views | francisbowles |
| Point Deductions. on 17:05 - Jul 17 by QPR_John |
So in effect FFP was changed to be less restrictive £39M over three years as oppose to £24M. So you would have thought the one team severely punished under the old rules which the FL themselves concluded were too harsh might have a case to have their punishment reduced. |
It was. The original fine was approximately halved. | | | |
| Point Deductions. on 19:18 - Jul 17 with 1705 views | QPR_John |
| Point Deductions. on 17:12 - Jul 17 by francisbowles |
It was. The original fine was approximately halved. |
Only because we did not meekly accept the original fine. The FL could have reduced the fine themselves. For one reason or another they wanted their pound of flesh from us. | | | |
| Point Deductions. on 21:23 - Jul 17 with 1639 views | terryb |
| Point Deductions. on 19:18 - Jul 17 by QPR_John |
Only because we did not meekly accept the original fine. The FL could have reduced the fine themselves. For one reason or another they wanted their pound of flesh from us. |
Of course they did. We were not allowed to lose £24 million over three years. We were allowed to lose £8 million in one season & we lost north of £60 million, spending approx £75 million in wages!
No other club has posted a loss of over £50 million more in a season than was allowed!
We wrote the template for others to follow & we dragged the outcome for a further three years knowing we were as guilty as f***!
I find it very amusing that some of our supporters consider us hard done by when followers of all the other Championship clubs consider we were let off lightly. | | | |
| Point Deductions. on 21:58 - Jul 17 with 2717 views | QPR_John |
| Point Deductions. on 21:23 - Jul 17 by terryb |
Of course they did. We were not allowed to lose £24 million over three years. We were allowed to lose £8 million in one season & we lost north of £60 million, spending approx £75 million in wages!
No other club has posted a loss of over £50 million more in a season than was allowed!
We wrote the template for others to follow & we dragged the outcome for a further three years knowing we were as guilty as f***!
I find it very amusing that some of our supporters consider us hard done by when followers of all the other Championship clubs consider we were let off lightly. |
"I find it very amusing that some of our supporters consider us hard done by when followers of all the other Championship clubs consider we were let off lightly."
Who would have thought.
But its not the FL place to "want a pound of flesh". Makes you wonder how impartial they were. [Post edited 17 Jul 2020 22:02]
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