| Pat Nevin biog: a reality check on modern football schedules 10:29 - Dec 5 with 6466 views | stainrods_elbow |
Just finished reading Pat Nevin's charming, counter-cultural and altogether inspiring autobiography (Pat Nevin: The Accidental Footballer, Monoray, 2021). A gem of a winger, a thinker, and a real beating heart to complement a lovely footballing (and non-footballing) brain. Also, he was friends with the greatest British band since, ooh, anyone, viz. Cocteau Twins. Highly recommended.
A propos one of my hobby horses, my eye was caught by this passage on p.190 - Warbs Warbler Warburton and his apologists take note!
'[After a 1-0 away win at Southampton in March 1986] [t]he next day we won the Full Members' Cup Final at Wembley, beating Manchester City 5-4.*
*Yes, it really was the next day. Two games in two days was something the modern footballer wouldn't accept, but it happened on a number of occasions back then. It never seemed to bother me too much. These days on the radio when I am asked about the stress of too many games close together for the current players, I try very hard not to go all Monty Python, with a Yorkshire accent: "Luxury! We played two games in two days, usually on mud heaps or potato fields. At that time I played seven games in fifteen days, GBH wasn't even a yellow card, I played nearly 850 games in my career when the average for a modern player is well under half that and they get paid not far short of Bill Gates's wages, while I had to sofa-surf at the end of every season. And you try telling that to the kids to day and they won't believe you."'
As far as I know, Pat is still walking around normally, so presumably he hasn't suffered any lasting damage from doing his job to such, by contemporary industry standards, extraordinary performance levels. By contrast, the lack of authoritative science, as far as I'm aware, behind what MW has recently been claiming about modern football schedules causing footballers to fall like flies really needs dragging out into the light of day, rather than our perpetuating the modern disease of mistaking assertion for argument. [Post edited 5 Dec 2021 10:35]
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| Pat Nevin biog: a reality check on modern football schedules on 22:33 - Dec 7 with 1468 views | BrianMcCarthy |
| Pat Nevin biog: a reality check on modern football schedules on 22:18 - Dec 7 by stainrods_elbow |
Zowee - footballer embroiled in nightclub fracas! Like that never happens!
Unfortunately for your argument (or rather assertion) - it appears my devils's advocacy seems to be becoming more satanic by the hour - Terry was actually found not guilty.
What a weird thread this is mutating into - I find myself steamrollered/ignored just for suggesting that there might (just might - I don't know, and nor does anyone here) be more to Terry than meets the eye, while Clive censures Nevin (one of a tiny handful, as he acknoweledges, who spoke up for Paul Canoville) for, apparently, not being anti-racist enough while at Chelsea, as though he were complicitously responsible for the likes of Gwyn Williams.
So much for (self-) critical thinking! [Post edited 7 Dec 2021 22:21]
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I'm finding it a very interesting and nuanced conversation.
"Satanic"? - you might be underestimating people a small bit there, to be fair, and you might be overestimating any negative effect of your post. I think it's been positive and started a good conversation.
People are capable of nuance. No-one's steamrollering you at all. Quite the opposite: they've taken your post and turned it into an interesting thread. |  |
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| Pat Nevin biog: a reality check on modern football schedules on 23:01 - Dec 7 with 1435 views | NW5Hoop |
| Pat Nevin biog: a reality check on modern football schedules on 22:18 - Dec 7 by stainrods_elbow |
Zowee - footballer embroiled in nightclub fracas! Like that never happens!
Unfortunately for your argument (or rather assertion) - it appears my devils's advocacy seems to be becoming more satanic by the hour - Terry was actually found not guilty.
What a weird thread this is mutating into - I find myself steamrollered/ignored just for suggesting that there might (just might - I don't know, and nor does anyone here) be more to Terry than meets the eye, while Clive censures Nevin (one of a tiny handful, as he acknoweledges, who spoke up for Paul Canoville) for, apparently, not being anti-racist enough while at Chelsea, as though he were complicitously responsible for the likes of Gwyn Williams.
So much for (self-) critical thinking! [Post edited 7 Dec 2021 22:21]
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I know one of the lawyers who was involved in that case. The reason Terry and Morris got off was that the prosecution's principal witness refused to testify, because he was afraid if he did he would go back to prison himself — he was breaching probation terms by being out at a nightclub in the first place. |  | | |
| Pat Nevin biog: a reality check on modern football schedules (n/t) on 23:48 - Dec 7 with 1403 views | dezzar |
| Pat Nevin biog: a reality check on modern football schedules on 22:12 - Dec 7 by stainrods_elbow |
O dear - that's exactly the kind of black and white thinking (not in the racial/racist sense) into which my post was trying to introduce at least a soupcon of nuance!
Never mind, I guess! |
[Post edited 8 Dec 2021 0:09]
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| Pat Nevin biog: a reality check on modern football schedules on 12:47 - Dec 8 with 1304 views | westberksr |
| Pat Nevin biog: a reality check on modern football schedules on 22:18 - Dec 7 by stainrods_elbow |
Zowee - footballer embroiled in nightclub fracas! Like that never happens!
Unfortunately for your argument (or rather assertion) - it appears my devils's advocacy seems to be becoming more satanic by the hour - Terry was actually found not guilty.
What a weird thread this is mutating into - I find myself steamrollered/ignored just for suggesting that there might (just might - I don't know, and nor does anyone here) be more to Terry than meets the eye, while Clive censures Nevin (one of a tiny handful, as he acknoweledges, who spoke up for Paul Canoville) for, apparently, not being anti-racist enough while at Chelsea, as though he were complicitously responsible for the likes of Gwyn Williams.
So much for (self-) critical thinking! [Post edited 7 Dec 2021 22:21]
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I think it's jolly decent of you to offer the alternative view regarding Mr Terry.
whilst we all are perhaps slightly biased regarding his values as a human being, it can also not be overlooked that being found not guilty isn't always as clear cut a proof of innocence as some might suggest.
He does have something approaching a catalogue of incidents which all give the impression of being a pretty unpleasant chap overall & not just suggesting a hint of racism/stupidity. This also seems to permeate through the rest of the Terry clan with their various misdemeanours over the years which is perhaps indicative of their general attitude and behaviour.
the likes of Nevin and Cundy are the worst of the 'defend Chelshite to the hilt and anyone to do with them' and there are plenty of media who do similar for their preferred club & players.
as to injuries, modern footballers are far more highly tuned and any athlete in that condition is also more likely to get injured as they are almost 'too fit', unless myself who has only pulled a hamstring once in 45 years of playing as i'm a wreck of a human being! |  | | |
| Pat Nevin biog: a reality check on modern football schedules on 14:08 - Dec 8 with 1263 views | BrianMcCarthy |
| Pat Nevin biog: a reality check on modern football schedules on 12:47 - Dec 8 by westberksr |
I think it's jolly decent of you to offer the alternative view regarding Mr Terry.
whilst we all are perhaps slightly biased regarding his values as a human being, it can also not be overlooked that being found not guilty isn't always as clear cut a proof of innocence as some might suggest.
He does have something approaching a catalogue of incidents which all give the impression of being a pretty unpleasant chap overall & not just suggesting a hint of racism/stupidity. This also seems to permeate through the rest of the Terry clan with their various misdemeanours over the years which is perhaps indicative of their general attitude and behaviour.
the likes of Nevin and Cundy are the worst of the 'defend Chelshite to the hilt and anyone to do with them' and there are plenty of media who do similar for their preferred club & players.
as to injuries, modern footballers are far more highly tuned and any athlete in that condition is also more likely to get injured as they are almost 'too fit', unless myself who has only pulled a hamstring once in 45 years of playing as i'm a wreck of a human being! |
"it can also not be overlooked that being found not guilty isn't always as clear cut a proof of innocence as some might suggest"
...and that he was found guilty by the FA. | |
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| Pat Nevin biog: a reality check on modern football schedules on 00:40 - Dec 11 with 1109 views | karl |
With regards to Nevin.
He was brought up in a Celtic supporting family and community but after finishing his football career and assessing things he decided that the baggage and external noise they carry (sectarianism in other words) didn’t sit with how he wanted his family to follow football so ended up being a Hibs season ticket holder along with his kids.
He was low key but vocal about this and don’t underestimate how important this approach is in Scotland, where he was earning most of his broadcast hours at that time, the racism agenda was huge in the 80s but sectarianism in the 90s and now is still the same and relevant. Chris Sutton is getting denied access to Ibrox for ‘security reasons’ in the last few weeks for example.
I was at the Tranmere game mentioned earlier and it was good to see, he got the Chelsea reject and other abuse but motioned with his arms ‘really?’ and then spoke to the front rows for ages while doing his stretches etc.
I can’t reconcile his tolerance of John Terry with the person I’ve followed standing up against sectarianism, I’m assuming he’s made a grave error of judgement because I cannot accept it’s to curry favour with the majority, his actions in Scotland and sectarianism have alienated him from both Celtic and Rangers fans so he is not a popularist by default.
I have never met Pat, this just my opinion of him from public information
Edit. Spelling [Post edited 11 Dec 2021 0:45]
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| Pat Nevin biog: a reality check on modern football schedules on 00:58 - Dec 11 with 1096 views | BrianMcCarthy |
| Pat Nevin biog: a reality check on modern football schedules on 00:40 - Dec 11 by karl |
With regards to Nevin.
He was brought up in a Celtic supporting family and community but after finishing his football career and assessing things he decided that the baggage and external noise they carry (sectarianism in other words) didn’t sit with how he wanted his family to follow football so ended up being a Hibs season ticket holder along with his kids.
He was low key but vocal about this and don’t underestimate how important this approach is in Scotland, where he was earning most of his broadcast hours at that time, the racism agenda was huge in the 80s but sectarianism in the 90s and now is still the same and relevant. Chris Sutton is getting denied access to Ibrox for ‘security reasons’ in the last few weeks for example.
I was at the Tranmere game mentioned earlier and it was good to see, he got the Chelsea reject and other abuse but motioned with his arms ‘really?’ and then spoke to the front rows for ages while doing his stretches etc.
I can’t reconcile his tolerance of John Terry with the person I’ve followed standing up against sectarianism, I’m assuming he’s made a grave error of judgement because I cannot accept it’s to curry favour with the majority, his actions in Scotland and sectarianism have alienated him from both Celtic and Rangers fans so he is not a popularist by default.
I have never met Pat, this just my opinion of him from public information
Edit. Spelling [Post edited 11 Dec 2021 0:45]
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Thought-provoking as ever. Thanks Karl.
Hope all's well with you. You've been quiet of late? | |
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| Pat Nevin biog: a reality check on modern football schedules on 08:20 - Dec 11 with 1049 views | distortR |
| Pat Nevin biog: a reality check on modern football schedules on 00:58 - Dec 11 by BrianMcCarthy |
Thought-provoking as ever. Thanks Karl.
Hope all's well with you. You've been quiet of late? |
Hibs fans are at the moment, tbf
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| Pat Nevin biog: a reality check on modern football schedules on 08:21 - Dec 11 with 1049 views | distortR |
| Pat Nevin biog: a reality check on modern football schedules on 15:04 - Dec 7 by kensalriser |
Weird lot, Chelsea. World beating cognitive dissonance. Had quite an entertaining round of argy bargy with a very vocally left wing, anti racist etc Chelser on another (non football) forum recently and true to form his football club trumped his ideals. Couldn’t see it, wouldn’t have it, was found not guilty in a court of law, all the usual nonsense.
10-12 years ago a young woman who was a colleague at the time told me her friend had met Terry and shortly afterwards received an unsolicited dick pic. Just her word of course, but you know, if the cap fits. [Post edited 7 Dec 2021 15:05]
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You may have got the wrong end of the stick there, Kensal.
Any picture of terry is a dick pic. | | | |
| Pat Nevin biog: a reality check on modern football schedules on 10:11 - Dec 11 with 987 views | Myke |
| Pat Nevin biog: a reality check on modern football schedules on 12:10 - Dec 5 by PinnerPaul |
Not sure about more games than ever.
Top league has always had more teams than now, domestic cups used to have replays and European competition, internationals and friendlies have always been around! |
Plus a 42 match league | | | |
| Pat Nevin biog: a reality check on modern football schedules on 10:21 - Dec 11 with 971 views | Myke |
| Pat Nevin biog: a reality check on modern football schedules on 14:22 - Dec 5 by themodfather |
modern squads are bigger , when liverpool ruled europe, they used around 18 players ! and played 60+ games.
now rotation is almost every game, cup games can be deemed a nuisance and best "out of" ? teams did once play xmas and then boxing day but not that i recall. |
Liverpool players in the 70's +80's regularly played 70+ club games per season and then add in International games (including the Home Nations Cup) on top of that. Typical squads were sub 20 players, 1substitution allowed per game and only used if if somebody had been killed. Also those that didn't play for the first team, played 'proper' reserve games. Modern players, like in most other professions, haven't got a clue what real work is. My nephew (14) enjoys farming, but only as long as his backside is stuck on a tractor. | | | |
| Pat Nevin biog: a reality check on modern football schedules on 12:19 - Dec 11 with 923 views | karl |
| Pat Nevin biog: a reality check on modern football schedules on 00:58 - Dec 11 by BrianMcCarthy |
Thought-provoking as ever. Thanks Karl.
Hope all's well with you. You've been quiet of late? |
All good Brian thanks.
Not been deliberately quiet but yes have drifted off last couple of months!
I think work is the reason, been steady busy and habits changed.
Been watching the games and enjoying the levels we’re reaching, all while grimacing at Hibs falling off a cliff since defeat at Ibrox!
Hope all well👠| | | |
| Pat Nevin biog: a reality check on modern football schedules on 12:25 - Dec 11 with 919 views | Northernr |
| Pat Nevin biog: a reality check on modern football schedules on 00:40 - Dec 11 by karl |
With regards to Nevin.
He was brought up in a Celtic supporting family and community but after finishing his football career and assessing things he decided that the baggage and external noise they carry (sectarianism in other words) didn’t sit with how he wanted his family to follow football so ended up being a Hibs season ticket holder along with his kids.
He was low key but vocal about this and don’t underestimate how important this approach is in Scotland, where he was earning most of his broadcast hours at that time, the racism agenda was huge in the 80s but sectarianism in the 90s and now is still the same and relevant. Chris Sutton is getting denied access to Ibrox for ‘security reasons’ in the last few weeks for example.
I was at the Tranmere game mentioned earlier and it was good to see, he got the Chelsea reject and other abuse but motioned with his arms ‘really?’ and then spoke to the front rows for ages while doing his stretches etc.
I can’t reconcile his tolerance of John Terry with the person I’ve followed standing up against sectarianism, I’m assuming he’s made a grave error of judgement because I cannot accept it’s to curry favour with the majority, his actions in Scotland and sectarianism have alienated him from both Celtic and Rangers fans so he is not a popularist by default.
I have never met Pat, this just my opinion of him from public information
Edit. Spelling [Post edited 11 Dec 2021 0:45]
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I think it's just a Terry/Chelsea thing mate. I played football with a Chelsea fan for a while, really intelligent guy, wonderful young family, the job, the car, the house, all of that, left leaning in political conversations, abhors all the things you're meant to abhor... but when it came to Terry the contortions he would twist himself into and contradictions he would tolerate not to say a word against the man was like Cirque du Soleil. It's like a cult. I think the only Chelsea fan I've seen publicly manage to rise out of it is actually Matthew Syed, who wrote repeatedly about Terry's many failings. But then he's a weirdo in other ways. |  | | |
| Pat Nevin biog: a reality check on modern football schedules on 14:58 - Dec 11 with 846 views | ParkRoyalR |
| Pat Nevin biog: a reality check on modern football schedules on 00:40 - Dec 11 by karl |
With regards to Nevin.
He was brought up in a Celtic supporting family and community but after finishing his football career and assessing things he decided that the baggage and external noise they carry (sectarianism in other words) didn’t sit with how he wanted his family to follow football so ended up being a Hibs season ticket holder along with his kids.
He was low key but vocal about this and don’t underestimate how important this approach is in Scotland, where he was earning most of his broadcast hours at that time, the racism agenda was huge in the 80s but sectarianism in the 90s and now is still the same and relevant. Chris Sutton is getting denied access to Ibrox for ‘security reasons’ in the last few weeks for example.
I was at the Tranmere game mentioned earlier and it was good to see, he got the Chelsea reject and other abuse but motioned with his arms ‘really?’ and then spoke to the front rows for ages while doing his stretches etc.
I can’t reconcile his tolerance of John Terry with the person I’ve followed standing up against sectarianism, I’m assuming he’s made a grave error of judgement because I cannot accept it’s to curry favour with the majority, his actions in Scotland and sectarianism have alienated him from both Celtic and Rangers fans so he is not a popularist by default.
I have never met Pat, this just my opinion of him from public information
Edit. Spelling [Post edited 11 Dec 2021 0:45]
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So Saint Pat of Nevin decides he's so virtuous he's can no longer support his boyhood club as in his virtuous world supporting Celtic condones sectarianism, instead decides to support Hibernian who arguably have some similar history, but..........
Has no problem being fully supportive of a club who throughout his time there abused their own black players (Paul Canonville at Highbury, I was in the Clock End, unbelievable abuse from his own fans, and I mean unbelievable) were the most racist fanbase in London with a large C18 element, who incidentally attacked and seriously injured some of their own fans in The Finborough Tavern, who like St Pat were left-leaning, and has been an apologist for them ever since, JT, Russian oligarchs the lot.
I can completely reconcile his for the media public utterances on Terry with the rest of it, as the bloke is a complete hypocrite. | | | |
| Pat Nevin biog: a reality check on modern football schedules on 18:29 - Dec 11 with 792 views | distortR |
| Pat Nevin biog: a reality check on modern football schedules on 12:19 - Dec 11 by karl |
All good Brian thanks.
Not been deliberately quiet but yes have drifted off last couple of months!
I think work is the reason, been steady busy and habits changed.
Been watching the games and enjoying the levels we’re reaching, all while grimacing at Hibs falling off a cliff since defeat at Ibrox!
Hope all well👠|
'kin hell, get a point and you can't shut him up! | | | |
| Pat Nevin biog: a reality check on modern football schedules on 22:51 - Dec 11 with 720 views | karl |
| Pat Nevin biog: a reality check on modern football schedules on 14:58 - Dec 11 by ParkRoyalR |
So Saint Pat of Nevin decides he's so virtuous he's can no longer support his boyhood club as in his virtuous world supporting Celtic condones sectarianism, instead decides to support Hibernian who arguably have some similar history, but..........
Has no problem being fully supportive of a club who throughout his time there abused their own black players (Paul Canonville at Highbury, I was in the Clock End, unbelievable abuse from his own fans, and I mean unbelievable) were the most racist fanbase in London with a large C18 element, who incidentally attacked and seriously injured some of their own fans in The Finborough Tavern, who like St Pat were left-leaning, and has been an apologist for them ever since, JT, Russian oligarchs the lot.
I can completely reconcile his for the media public utterances on Terry with the rest of it, as the bloke is a complete hypocrite. |
To be fair his decision to be a Hibs season ticket holder was due to the atmosphere and language in the stadium on match day as he wanted to bring his young family with him. To connect to another thread, it was also because Hibs were playing exciting attacking football with young homegrown players under rookie manager Tony Mowbray, they were exciting times!
The history of Hibs is of course an Irish immigrant one but there has been no history of sectarianism attached to the club other than in its founding years I think you had to be an Irish Catholic to get a game, reason being that if you were Irish Catholic you weren’t allowed to play for the established clubs so they gave them a team to play for,
This practice stopped fairly quickly as far as I know, Hibs actively removed all Irish paraphernalia at the stadium in the 70s to ward off any attachment of the troubles and taking sides.
I think this has cost Hibs a lot financially when you see how commercialised Celtic have been towards their Irishness but ultimately I’m glad they didn’t go down that road and instead are proud to be a Scottish club with its Irish roots. | | | |
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