| Chris Ramsey 11:03 - Dec 18 with 8416 views | dmm |
He's had Yaya Toure and now Ji Sung Park come to learn how to coach under his tutelage. He obviously commands a great deal of respect within football. It's been said many times, but I'll say it again, we are so very fortunate to have him at QPR. [Post edited 19 Dec 2021 20:42]
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| Chris Ramsay on 20:27 - Dec 19 with 2869 views | CamberleyR |
Sorry to be the spelling gestapo but can the original post be edited so his surname is spelt correctly? |  |
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| Chris Ramsay on 22:38 - Dec 19 with 2762 views | Loftgirl |
| Chris Ramsay on 20:27 - Dec 19 by CamberleyR |
Sorry to be the spelling gestapo but can the original post be edited so his surname is spelt correctly? |
Careful, Paul Parker might be watching and waiting with his collection of pictures of Jimmy Edwards. |  | | |
| Chris Ramsay on 01:16 - Dec 21 with 2536 views | stainrods_elbow |
| Chris Ramsay on 12:55 - Dec 18 by Myke |
And let's not ignore the elephant in the room - his skin colour. Very, very difficult for black mangers to succeed. Totally wrong but that's the way it was (is). That is why it is really important that the likes of Viera makes a good fist of Crystal Palace regardless of what you think of either the club or the man. I personally am ambiguous to the club and have huge respect for Viera the player - it will be interesting to see how it pans out. |
Just out of interest, why and how are/were the odds stacked against Ramsey purely on the basis of the colour of his skin? Did Chris feel this way himself? Do you mean, as you are surely implying, that QPR are institutionally racist and, if so, what do you base this on?
As for Viera, the same thing applies. Surely he should only succeed at Palace on the basis of his own footballing merits, not to tick some kind of positively discriminated political box? [Post edited 21 Dec 2021 16:28]
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| Chris Ramsay on 01:19 - Dec 21 with 2535 views | stainrods_elbow |
| Chris Ramsay on 17:15 - Dec 18 by kernowhoop |
Perhaps Ji Sung Park could be given a shirt, at least during the AFCON period?  |
After the way he played for us during his time here, I think he should be paying the club for this training course! | |
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| Chris Ramsay on 02:58 - Dec 21 with 2503 views | SydneyRs |
| Chris Ramsay on 01:16 - Dec 21 by stainrods_elbow |
Just out of interest, why and how are/were the odds stacked against Ramsey purely on the basis of the colour of his skin? Did Chris feel this way himself? Do you mean, as you are surely implying, that QPR are institutionally racist and, if so, what do you base this on?
As for Viera, the same thing applies. Surely he should only succeed at Palace on the basis of his own footballing merits, not to tick some kind of positively discriminated political box? [Post edited 21 Dec 2021 16:28]
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I think part of the support turned on him more quickly than they might have done with a white manager. IMHO. Its not the club. If you have had any involvement with QPR related social media/groups, you will realise there are plenty of racists and bigots among our support base. |  | | |
| Chris Ramsey on 08:37 - Dec 21 with 2364 views | PunteR |
I think the colour of his skin was way down the list of reasons why he lost his job as manager.
The No1 reason he lost the job imo was he was well out of his depth and we lost football matches.
The club was hitting the proverbial fan. Ferdinand had come in and started the process of cleaning up Redknap/Hughes/Fernandes mess and get rid of all the mercenaries. The first thing Ferdinand had to do was get rid of Redknap The 2nd thing he had to do was appoint another manager. They wasn't queuing up all the way down Loftus Road and besides we had to stop the hemorrhaging of money given the fact we was still paying Hughes and Redknap their contracts.
Up stepped Ramsey. Who knows what was going on in his mind?. Crazy fool..lol
I backed Ramsey but in hindsight the timing was completely wrong. Fairplay to him though. He certainly wasn't the beginning of the end for the club, far from it. In actual fact he was the start of this new direction we're going in and as it stands, turning out to be pretty successful.
It's taken a while though. ;) [Post edited 21 Dec 2021 10:36]
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| Occasional providers of half decent House music. |
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| Chris Ramsey on 09:12 - Dec 21 with 2329 views | londonscottish |
| Chris Ramsey on 08:37 - Dec 21 by PunteR |
I think the colour of his skin was way down the list of reasons why he lost his job as manager.
The No1 reason he lost the job imo was he was well out of his depth and we lost football matches.
The club was hitting the proverbial fan. Ferdinand had come in and started the process of cleaning up Redknap/Hughes/Fernandes mess and get rid of all the mercenaries. The first thing Ferdinand had to do was get rid of Redknap The 2nd thing he had to do was appoint another manager. They wasn't queuing up all the way down Loftus Road and besides we had to stop the hemorrhaging of money given the fact we was still paying Hughes and Redknap their contracts.
Up stepped Ramsey. Who knows what was going on in his mind?. Crazy fool..lol
I backed Ramsey but in hindsight the timing was completely wrong. Fairplay to him though. He certainly wasn't the beginning of the end for the club, far from it. In actual fact he was the start of this new direction we're going in and as it stands, turning out to be pretty successful.
It's taken a while though. ;) [Post edited 21 Dec 2021 10:36]
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I heard him interviewed fairly recently and he still has aspirations to have another go at a manager's job. It's clearly a box he wants to tick.
What was more interesting was the way he talked about what he did with Les at Spurs and was trying to do here - introduce one way of playing across all squads and have an active and effective route from youth to senior squad.
His view was that getting it right takes a very long time - 5 to 10 years.
That made slight alarm bells go off in my head - he and Les have both been here for 7 years now and the approach is clearly working now.
One day we'll lose CR, Les and Warbs and, collectively, they'll be a hard act to follow. |  |
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| Chris Ramsey on 13:28 - Dec 21 with 2175 views | nix |
| Chris Ramsey on 09:12 - Dec 21 by londonscottish |
I heard him interviewed fairly recently and he still has aspirations to have another go at a manager's job. It's clearly a box he wants to tick.
What was more interesting was the way he talked about what he did with Les at Spurs and was trying to do here - introduce one way of playing across all squads and have an active and effective route from youth to senior squad.
His view was that getting it right takes a very long time - 5 to 10 years.
That made slight alarm bells go off in my head - he and Les have both been here for 7 years now and the approach is clearly working now.
One day we'll lose CR, Les and Warbs and, collectively, they'll be a hard act to follow. |
Agree with all of this.
Just watching the U23s, it's clear that they do play in a similar way to the first team. |  | | |
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| Chris Ramsey on 13:46 - Dec 21 with 2139 views | PunteR |
| Chris Ramsey on 09:12 - Dec 21 by londonscottish |
I heard him interviewed fairly recently and he still has aspirations to have another go at a manager's job. It's clearly a box he wants to tick.
What was more interesting was the way he talked about what he did with Les at Spurs and was trying to do here - introduce one way of playing across all squads and have an active and effective route from youth to senior squad.
His view was that getting it right takes a very long time - 5 to 10 years.
That made slight alarm bells go off in my head - he and Les have both been here for 7 years now and the approach is clearly working now.
One day we'll lose CR, Les and Warbs and, collectively, they'll be a hard act to follow. |
Hopefully when they do inevitably leave, foundations have been properly laid to continue on with their work.
Its hardly rocket science though , it's the right way for a football club to be run, but in todays game and results business, this long term strategy seems to mystify a lot of owners.
Got to give our owners their due. They've pretty much stayed out of it and let football people do the football and the money man (Hoos) do the money thing! | |
| Occasional providers of half decent House music. |
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| Chris Ramsey on 14:04 - Dec 21 with 2102 views | TheChef |
Bob Malcolm up next?? |  |
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| Chris Ramsay on 20:42 - Dec 21 with 1945 views | stainrods_elbow |
| Chris Ramsay on 02:58 - Dec 21 by SydneyRs |
I think part of the support turned on him more quickly than they might have done with a white manager. IMHO. Its not the club. If you have had any involvement with QPR related social media/groups, you will realise there are plenty of racists and bigots among our support base. |
Fine, but that's just your speculation, isn't it? What I was asking about was an evidential base. Personally, I think it's codswallop. WHen JFH was at the helm, we had a black Manager, a black Director of Football, and a black Youth Coach/Technical Director (and former Manager), did we not? If anything, the club has been well ahead of the game when it comes to racial equality of opportunity. [Post edited 21 Dec 2021 20:48]
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| Chris Ramsay on 22:24 - Dec 21 with 1812 views | Myke |
| Chris Ramsay on 01:16 - Dec 21 by stainrods_elbow |
Just out of interest, why and how are/were the odds stacked against Ramsey purely on the basis of the colour of his skin? Did Chris feel this way himself? Do you mean, as you are surely implying, that QPR are institutionally racist and, if so, what do you base this on?
As for Viera, the same thing applies. Surely he should only succeed at Palace on the basis of his own footballing merits, not to tick some kind of positively discriminated political box? [Post edited 21 Dec 2021 16:28]
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What an absurdly naive and inflammatory post Simon. I would expect better for a man of your intelligence. Do your research on the success/employment rates of black versus white managers in Britain over the past twenty years alone, and think before you ink. | | | |
| Chris Ramsey on 22:30 - Dec 21 with 1805 views | kensalriser |
Did Ramsey's lack of success as QPR manager have anything to do with his skin colour? No direct evidence for that.
Are there far fewer black managers in the football league today compared with the percentage of black players in the league 10, 15, 20 years ago? Undoubtedly.
Is that because
a) black people lack the necessary skills to become managers or
b) something else? |  |
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| Chris Ramsey on 23:00 - Dec 21 with 1758 views | MrSheen |
Perhaps the temperament and skills you need to develop young players as the main influence in their emergence don’t help in managing egotistical established players. Gerry struggled to impose his ideas and authority on big earners at Spurs who didn’t know him and felt they didn’t owe him anything, even basic respect. Something similar for Chris Ramsey? |  | | |
| Chris Ramsay on 23:58 - Dec 21 with 1704 views | bob566 |
| Chris Ramsay on 20:42 - Dec 21 by stainrods_elbow |
Fine, but that's just your speculation, isn't it? What I was asking about was an evidential base. Personally, I think it's codswallop. WHen JFH was at the helm, we had a black Manager, a black Director of Football, and a black Youth Coach/Technical Director (and former Manager), did we not? If anything, the club has been well ahead of the game when it comes to racial equality of opportunity. [Post edited 21 Dec 2021 20:48]
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Couldn't agree more. You left out that we renamed our stadium too after a former black player albeit in tragic circumstances. I'm so proud of qpr. I don't think for one minute CR suffered as a manager because of skin colour. I find that absurd | | | |
| Chris Ramsay on 07:36 - Dec 22 with 1577 views | BrianMcCarthy |
| Chris Ramsay on 20:42 - Dec 21 by stainrods_elbow |
Fine, but that's just your speculation, isn't it? What I was asking about was an evidential base. Personally, I think it's codswallop. WHen JFH was at the helm, we had a black Manager, a black Director of Football, and a black Youth Coach/Technical Director (and former Manager), did we not? If anything, the club has been well ahead of the game when it comes to racial equality of opportunity. [Post edited 21 Dec 2021 20:48]
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"When JFH was at the helm, we had a black Manager, a black Director of Football, and a black Youth Coach/Technical Director (and former Manager), did we not? If anything, the club has been well ahead of the game when it comes to racial equality of opportunity."
I agree completely, Stainrod. I think we all do, and I think we're all extremely proud of the club, which is - as you say - ahead of the game when it comes to racial equality of opportunity.
But while that's 100% legitimate, it's an entirely different point from Sydney's point, which was that "part of the support turned on him more quickly than they might have done with a white manager. IMHO. Its not the club." |  |
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| Chris Ramsey on 12:00 - Dec 22 with 1399 views | londonscottish |
| Chris Ramsey on 13:46 - Dec 21 by PunteR |
Hopefully when they do inevitably leave, foundations have been properly laid to continue on with their work.
Its hardly rocket science though , it's the right way for a football club to be run, but in todays game and results business, this long term strategy seems to mystify a lot of owners.
Got to give our owners their due. They've pretty much stayed out of it and let football people do the football and the money man (Hoos) do the money thing! |
I hope so. Ruben was making all the right noises when Clive interviewed him on the podcast recently. Saying that he & Tony gradually realised that a football club needs the correct culture and the correct governance, just like any of the other businesses they're involved in.
He said it took a few seasons for the penny to drop. And, fair play, they brought in Hoos, Ramsey, Les & Warbs. Hoos had tons of experience in football from Burnley & Fulham unlike Beard who know nothing about it at all. Les & Ramsey had done some pretty cool youth stuff at Spurs. Warbs at Brentford where it was all about punching above the wages.
And now they're finally going the training ground which should improve things further.
Hopefully, the legacy of doing things this way will outlast the current staff as I can see tsome of them disappearing in the not too distant future. Especially Hoos who talks openly about retirement and Ramsey who may still have a go at management if someone came in for him. I've no idea how long Warbs wants to go on or how he'd react if he was offered a big money contract somewhere else. | |
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| Chris Ramsey on 14:13 - Dec 22 with 1281 views | gazza1 |
Chris Ramsey job as first team manager was a complete failure....he was absolutely useless for whatever reason and nothing to do with the colour of his skin (Why this has been raised and Viera I will never know - wrong!!). His job was basically to win matches as First Team coach/manager and he failed to do that enough times. So he was moved aside.
Within his current job, Youth Team Manager or whatever you want to call it, his work is completely different and so are his targets what he will be judged on. It is not about winning matches, getting points on the board, trophies, etc - it is solely to the development of the young players in every sense of the word. The young lads need to understand the game from top to bottom. Once this has been achieved over the players early years as, if you like, apprentices doing their apprenticeships they will progress to the next level. If they do not progress then the 'end is nigh'. Progress and development continues until hopefully we see all the hard work that coaches like Ramsey have done and they move into the First Team set-up.
It was never like that years ago but now the FA train coaches to do just that and the coaches must go on FA courses to get their badges which permit them to coach to certain levels of football.
Will he ever become a First Team coach again.....big question if he can become one imho.
Bottom line is that Ramsey's job is to develop our kids. He appears to be doing OK so fair play to him. | | | |
| Chris Ramsey on 14:23 - Dec 22 with 1263 views | BrianMcCarthy |
Thanks for that, dmm.
A good read. | |
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| Chris Ramsey on 14:28 - Dec 22 with 1260 views | PinnerPaul |
The big line from that is "I'd take getting one player in the first team, over winning the FA Youth Cup" - a point well worth keeping in mind. | | | |
| Chris Ramsay on 14:48 - Dec 22 with 1216 views | stainrods_elbow |
| Chris Ramsay on 22:24 - Dec 21 by Myke |
What an absurdly naive and inflammatory post Simon. I would expect better for a man of your intelligence. Do your research on the success/employment rates of black versus white managers in Britain over the past twenty years alone, and think before you ink. |
I didn't (and don't) think I was (am) being either 'naive' or 'inflammatory', Myke. I was (am) asking for people to support their claims with evidence, that's all.
I don't know what the correlation is between black applicants for coaching/management posts and outcomes, but I wouldn't be in favour of positive discrimination either way.
My original point was to another, I feel much inflammatory, post, to counter-claim that, at QPR at least, there's no evidence at all that our black staff have been held back - quite the reverse. | |
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