| Can someone explain this ref? 18:06 - Apr 2 with 12583 views | Antti_Heinola |
2 mins in Mitro doesnt get a corner. Judging by his reaction, he should have, but there followed a prolonged, loud verbal abuse of the ref, far beyond the importance of the decision. No booking.
Wallace blocked off, no fk, conplains, is not only booked, but ref gives a fk to Fulham? Never seen that. What on earth could Mitro have said that *wasnt* worth a yellow? |  |
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| Can someone explain this ref? on 15:43 - Apr 4 with 1795 views | PinnerPaul |
| Can someone explain this ref? on 15:30 - Apr 4 by QPR_John |
If a player goes down and stays down so the referee stops the game that player should go off for say 10 minutes with his team down to 10 men if the manager wants him to come back. Of course a substitution can be made. [Post edited 4 Apr 2022 15:32]
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That was the idea of a player having to leave the field for treatment, but THAT's ignored as well!
Agree worth trying a more draconian approach, but you would get the clubs bleating that you are penalising an injured player, who was, in genuine cases, injured by the oppo! |  | | |
| Can someone explain this ref? on 15:49 - Apr 4 with 1756 views | stowmarketrange |
| Can someone explain this ref? on 15:43 - Apr 4 by PinnerPaul |
That was the idea of a player having to leave the field for treatment, but THAT's ignored as well!
Agree worth trying a more draconian approach, but you would get the clubs bleating that you are penalising an injured player, who was, in genuine cases, injured by the oppo! |
Certainly 1 or 2 minutes might cut out some of the blatant time wasting that we see most games. |  | | |
| Can someone explain this ref? on 16:11 - Apr 4 with 1710 views | WatfordR |
| Can someone explain this ref? on 13:54 - Apr 4 by PinnerPaul |
See above - sorry its either OK or its not - it can't be OK in certain situations but not in others! & you want referees to clamp down on it - what, when its 'ok' or not?!
First player to get a 2nd yellow for 'timewasting' - lets see who his manager blames?
Even had some on here blaming Ward for Sanderson's sending off and Stroud for Dozzell's - the whole shift of emphasis needs to change - 'football' just won't accept multiple yellow and red cards for non physical offences (timewasting/dissent) - hence why we are where we are. |
I think my last para in the post you're replying to shows fairly clearly where I stand on timewasting.
Again, I'll point to the original poster who said that the lino in the instance on Saturday was having a little giggle with the Fulham player about how funny his method of timewasting was. I said I didn't see that, but if true, that is not OK imo, and certainly wasn't happening when Albert did what he did. Hence not remotely the same issue.
The point was also made by another poster about the incident in the England-Ireland rugby a few weeks back. Red card offence committed after 80 seconds, red card issued. Had the game gone on from there and been a damp squib, whose fault was that? The ref for applying the LOTG, or the player who showed ill discipline? Absolutely no one, players, management, TV commentators or anyone else, blamed the ref. And for what it's worth, it appears to me that, within reasonable tolerance for the human factor (and certainly at international level), games of rugby are being officiated far far more consistently.
There are things in football that need getting rid of, diving, timewasting, harrassing the referee in particular. We've had the discussion before about the standard and consistency of football officiating, and we all acknowledge that you can't have a game of football without officials. So actually saying "football" won't accept this or that is not correct. Referees, as a body, are in a position to say we don't want to be blamed for not applying rules correctly because we're being told manager/players/TV companies or whoever won't accept it. Either change the rules, or allow us to apply them consistently, or find this week's guest celebrity to come and referee a game and reduce the credibility of football as a product even further. Your choice. What are the authorities going to say or do?
At the last world Cup, holding in the area at set pieces went from endemic at the start to non existent by the end of the tournament, simply because, with the aid of VAR, the letter of the law was applied and penalties were given all the time in the first few weeks. I can't see one single fan who wouldn't agree with that, and I can't imagine it would be any different if zero tolerance on timewasting and diving and so on eradicated that nonsense from the game. If the Refs association make a stand on these things, "we're fed up with it and we're not taking it anymore", no one in the game is going to stand up and publicly say they are wrong. Once you're put on the spot and agree with the principle, you've nowhere to go if you or one of your players step out of line. |  | | |
| Can someone explain this ref? on 16:12 - Apr 4 with 1708 views | Northernr |
| Can someone explain this ref? on 15:43 - Apr 4 by PinnerPaul |
That was the idea of a player having to leave the field for treatment, but THAT's ignored as well!
Agree worth trying a more draconian approach, but you would get the clubs bleating that you are penalising an injured player, who was, in genuine cases, injured by the oppo! |
One thing they're working on in the NRL with pleasing effects is if a player goes down "injured" in inverted commas, and then can miraculously carry on after achieving the stoppage he set out for, an independent doctor in the video referee box can call for him to be removed for a 15-minute assessment. It's cleared the play-acting up an absolute treat. |  | | |
| Can someone explain this ref? on 16:14 - Apr 4 with 1698 views | PinnerPaul |
| Can someone explain this ref? on 15:49 - Apr 4 by stowmarketrange |
Certainly 1 or 2 minutes might cut out some of the blatant time wasting that we see most games. |
Worth a try I agree, it has got to ridiculous levels now. | | | |
| Can someone explain this ref? on 16:17 - Apr 4 with 1683 views | PinnerPaul |
| Can someone explain this ref? on 16:12 - Apr 4 by Northernr |
One thing they're working on in the NRL with pleasing effects is if a player goes down "injured" in inverted commas, and then can miraculously carry on after achieving the stoppage he set out for, an independent doctor in the video referee box can call for him to be removed for a 15-minute assessment. It's cleared the play-acting up an absolute treat. |
Another good idea, but the fundamental problem, as we all know, is the clubs have to agree to it to make it work - and they never will.
Repeating myself but if MW thinks the ball juggling is "OK and part of the game" there's not much hope is there? | | | |
| Can someone explain this ref? on 16:20 - Apr 4 with 1675 views | Northernr |
| Can someone explain this ref? on 16:17 - Apr 4 by PinnerPaul |
Another good idea, but the fundamental problem, as we all know, is the clubs have to agree to it to make it work - and they never will.
Repeating myself but if MW thinks the ball juggling is "OK and part of the game" there's not much hope is there? |
Do we think he was being diplomatic? Eustace certainly didn't think it was ok. #teameustace | | | |
| Can someone explain this ref? on 16:24 - Apr 4 with 1657 views | QPR_John |
| Can someone explain this ref? on 15:43 - Apr 4 by PinnerPaul |
That was the idea of a player having to leave the field for treatment, but THAT's ignored as well!
Agree worth trying a more draconian approach, but you would get the clubs bleating that you are penalising an injured player, who was, in genuine cases, injured by the oppo! |
Well I suppose we could make a start by applying it to players that go down nowhere near the ball | | | |
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| Can someone explain this ref? on 16:27 - Apr 4 with 1648 views | PinnerPaul |
| Can someone explain this ref? on 16:20 - Apr 4 by Northernr |
Do we think he was being diplomatic? Eustace certainly didn't think it was ok. #teameustace |
Yes of course he was and about to share a drink with said person no doubt.
BUT the person whose fault it was is absolved completely while the ref gets the blame when he had had no choice - as you said should have booked the ball juggler though - but that isn't what got MW mad.
Yes he was obviously aggrieved at the penalty decision, but it was tantamount to saying ball juggling OK, John E pushing the ball juggler OK, but ref should have accepted John didn't know who the 4th was!!!!!
Getting bored with this all myself now, so sure everyone else is - off to do an U18s line tonight - NOT in the mood for the inevitable "Keep up with play lino" might be a bit of mistaken identity pushing tonight if I hear that!  | | | |
| Can someone explain this ref? on 16:44 - Apr 4 with 1623 views | Harbour |
| Can someone explain this ref? on 13:46 - Apr 4 by PinnerPaul |
I explained why I think there was no flag. MW wouldn't have a clue how they arrived at the decision - nor do I, but looking at body language and actions of both lead me to my theory.
Penalty - same view as Clive - debateable but would have wanted it at the other end.
Someone made the good point that in real time it looked like he moved his arm before the ball hit it, but, looking at replays the movement happened afterwards.
Don't think we will get an apology as MW claims nor do I think VAR would have overturned that as an obvious error, but quite understand the strong views against. |
Thanks Paul for comments can see what your getting at..on to Sheff u whatever the outcome let’s hope no controversy… | | | |
| Can someone explain this ref? on 17:01 - Apr 4 with 1597 views | bermudabob |
| Can someone explain this ref? on 09:47 - Apr 4 by PinnerPaul |
Identical to the Albert Adomah incident earlier in the season - how we all laughed THEN?! - maybe its the players? Just a thought? |
I think you misunderstood my post completely. My frustration is with the Linos reaction. Nothing new or unusual a player running the clock | | | |
| Can someone explain this ref? on 17:09 - Apr 4 with 1587 views | denhamhoop2 |
| Can someone explain this ref? on 10:08 - Apr 4 by PinnerPaul |
Totally agree, just saying you will never see one for dissent that early at this level. |
Then why bother having officials for the opening 10 minutes would he turn a blind eye to a punch that early{Mind he allowed a foul on wrestling grapple headbutt between Williams and Field to carry on for a good 10 seconds in the second half so who knows) | | | |
| Can someone explain this ref? on 17:49 - Apr 4 with 1515 views | PinnerPaul |
| Can someone explain this ref? on 16:44 - Apr 4 by Harbour |
Thanks Paul for comments can see what your getting at..on to Sheff u whatever the outcome let’s hope no controversy… |
Be nice to have endless threads discussing how well we played, can we still make the top 6 etc etc etc ....in our dreams! | | | |
| Can someone explain this ref? on 17:52 - Apr 4 with 1491 views | PinnerPaul |
| Can someone explain this ref? on 17:09 - Apr 4 by denhamhoop2 |
Then why bother having officials for the opening 10 minutes would he turn a blind eye to a punch that early{Mind he allowed a foul on wrestling grapple headbutt between Williams and Field to carry on for a good 10 seconds in the second half so who knows) |
Erm no he wouldn't.
Its not my view that its right, just saying you won't ever see it happen.
When was the last time you saw a GK penalised for holding the ball longer than 6 seconds?
There's loads more - just have to accept it, but of course, anyone is perfectly entitled to disagree with them all! | | | |
| Can someone explain this ref? on 18:21 - Apr 4 with 1449 views | stevenagehoop |
| Can someone explain this ref? on 13:56 - Apr 4 by PinnerPaul |
Yep you're right John, the top referees admit its about 'managing' the event.
Think I mentioned this earlier in the season - its actually seen as a positive to be seen to 'manage' the game and its seen as a good thing if you can do this WITHOUT flashing cards around. |
Not against that style of refereeing but the important word there is manage. You are not managing the game if you continue to allow dissent. If it was being managed properly the players would not think they are able to do it all through the game. |  |
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| Can someone explain this ref? on 18:37 - Apr 4 with 1419 views | stevenagehoop |
| Can someone explain this ref? on 17:52 - Apr 4 by PinnerPaul |
Erm no he wouldn't.
Its not my view that its right, just saying you won't ever see it happen.
When was the last time you saw a GK penalised for holding the ball longer than 6 seconds?
There's loads more - just have to accept it, but of course, anyone is perfectly entitled to disagree with them all! |
The referee is in charge of the game - he has to apply the rules - does he have to treat all breaches the same though - no he doesn’t - it’s about proportionality, what breach can you turn a blind eye to and what do you come down on. In my opinion being called out by a player if left unchecked will cause him far more problems later in the game than letting a goalkeeper waste a few seconds where a little word in the ear will set the tone. | |
| I never lie but I don't always tell the truth |
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| Can someone explain this ref? on 18:43 - Apr 4 with 1397 views | QPR_John |
| Can someone explain this ref? on 18:37 - Apr 4 by stevenagehoop |
The referee is in charge of the game - he has to apply the rules - does he have to treat all breaches the same though - no he doesn’t - it’s about proportionality, what breach can you turn a blind eye to and what do you come down on. In my opinion being called out by a player if left unchecked will cause him far more problems later in the game than letting a goalkeeper waste a few seconds where a little word in the ear will set the tone. |
Problem is booking a player early on may make the referees life less difficult during the game but may cause problems after with the assessor. | | | |
| Can someone explain this ref? on 18:49 - Apr 4 with 1391 views | CLAREMAN1995 |
| Can someone explain this ref? on 18:21 - Apr 4 by stevenagehoop |
Not against that style of refereeing but the important word there is manage. You are not managing the game if you continue to allow dissent. If it was being managed properly the players would not think they are able to do it all through the game. |
Excellent post here and if there is one thing that boils my pi*s (stole that from another poster on here )its the constant aggressive surrounding of the ref after every call .
I am sitting watching begging the refs to flash yellow to every member of the group but know its fantasy .
However I watched the end of the Barcelona game yesterday and the ref went rogue and booked 3 or 4 players who basically abused him I was thrilled.
The Fulham penalty award was just pathetic but the ref HAS to book Mitrovich for abuse on that first exchange .Grow a pair of ba*ls show the players they play and he refs | | | |
| Can someone explain this ref? on 18:53 - Apr 4 with 1388 views | stevenagehoop |
| Can someone explain this ref? on 18:43 - Apr 4 by QPR_John |
Problem is booking a player early on may make the referees life less difficult during the game but may cause problems after with the assessor. |
Depends on the level of dissent - some dissent can be dealt with by a little word in the ear - including that wonderful phrase - sorry player I didn’t quite hear that would you care to repeat it - .Other more serious dissent may well require an early caution. Never caused me a problem with the assessor. | |
| I never lie but I don't always tell the truth |
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| Can someone explain this ref? on 20:34 - Apr 4 with 1298 views | HamptonR |
| Can someone explain this ref? on 09:44 - Apr 4 by Rangers67 |
Watched it from F block South Africa road . Amos was consistently off the pace and second to any 50/50 ball. Not the only one, Dykes had a similar game but had the excuse of not having played for a while. Still it,s a game of opinions and we differ. Did you watch the game ? |
Yes I did, block T Ellerslie Road.
We all have our own opinions and mine was that there was a lot of honest endeavour, from most of the players, Thomas in particular, and Amos was the only midfielder that carried the ball forward, and on more than one occasion, the options in front of him didn't materialise, so he cut back and looked back.
He was shattered and needed to be taken off, but I thought he put in a good shift. | | | |
| Can someone explain this ref? on 11:45 - Apr 5 with 1116 views | francisbowles |
Having read all this thread and considered Pinner's very rational analysis of the points, I have come to the conclusion that the referees, collectively, through their association or whatever, need to GROW A PAIR.
What has it got to do with whether the clubs like it or not? If the LOTG are applied accurately, consistently, equitably and fairly, then they have little to complain about.
The LOTG are the 'rules' that they all sign up to when agreeing to participate in the sport, they should be made to abide by them through correct enforcement.
So what if there is an outcry? There is a far worse outcry, in the stands at practically every match, every week. | | | |
| Can someone explain this ref? on 13:39 - Apr 5 with 1025 views | stowmarketrange |
| Can someone explain this ref? on 11:45 - Apr 5 by francisbowles |
Having read all this thread and considered Pinner's very rational analysis of the points, I have come to the conclusion that the referees, collectively, through their association or whatever, need to GROW A PAIR.
What has it got to do with whether the clubs like it or not? If the LOTG are applied accurately, consistently, equitably and fairly, then they have little to complain about.
The LOTG are the 'rules' that they all sign up to when agreeing to participate in the sport, they should be made to abide by them through correct enforcement.
So what if there is an outcry? There is a far worse outcry, in the stands at practically every match, every week. |
I agree mate.The LOTG should be applied properly at every game.If the game turns into a farce because of it,then so be it.It won’t take long for managers and players to realise that they can’t get away with breaking the laws like they do now.
If the first few games end up 8v8,but the players learn the lessons,then it has to be better than what we have now,where the players referee the game instead of the officials. | | | |
| Can someone explain this ref? on 15:57 - Apr 5 with 944 views | PinnerPaul |
| Can someone explain this ref? on 18:21 - Apr 4 by stevenagehoop |
Not against that style of refereeing but the important word there is manage. You are not managing the game if you continue to allow dissent. If it was being managed properly the players would not think they are able to do it all through the game. |
Fair point well made.
I agree that is a good indicator of 'success', I fear those at the top see 11 v 11 finishing the game as 'success' though. | | | |
| Can someone explain this ref? on 16:05 - Apr 5 with 919 views | PinnerPaul |
| Can someone explain this ref? on 18:37 - Apr 4 by stevenagehoop |
The referee is in charge of the game - he has to apply the rules - does he have to treat all breaches the same though - no he doesn’t - it’s about proportionality, what breach can you turn a blind eye to and what do you come down on. In my opinion being called out by a player if left unchecked will cause him far more problems later in the game than letting a goalkeeper waste a few seconds where a little word in the ear will set the tone. |
Agree to an extent.
But the game isn't the same at every level, naive to think it is.
Two reasons put forward why dissent isn't punished at the top
1) They have been trained not to let it influence them (Debateable if that works I agree)
2) Their personal safety isn't in doubt - unlike on a Sunday morning where dissent can lead to threats that lead to violence.
A foul is a foul is a foul, but what is one is different at different levels and ages of the game. | | | |
| Can someone explain this ref? on 18:26 - Apr 5 with 867 views | stevenagehoop |
| Can someone explain this ref? on 16:05 - Apr 5 by PinnerPaul |
Agree to an extent.
But the game isn't the same at every level, naive to think it is.
Two reasons put forward why dissent isn't punished at the top
1) They have been trained not to let it influence them (Debateable if that works I agree)
2) Their personal safety isn't in doubt - unlike on a Sunday morning where dissent can lead to threats that lead to violence.
A foul is a foul is a foul, but what is one is different at different levels and ages of the game. |
Funny enough when I was on my referees course the point made was that whatever was allowed at the higher levels would influence how grass root officials would be treated and that was why the elite referees actions were particularly relevant to your second reason and probably like your association we had plenty of guest speakers all singing from the same hymn sheet about how dissent should be handled.
My point wasn’t about the game being the same at every level, I don’t think anyone expects that but being called a c**t or worse should be enforced the same no matter what level you officiated at
With regard to the first point we see week in week out that they are influenced by the actions of protesting players even without dissent being involved. | |
| I never lie but I don't always tell the truth |
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