| Clarke Carlisle Mental Health WEBEX 18:18 - Oct 13 with 3592 views | davman |
My Company has arranged a session with Clarke to talk about mental health and there is time for a Q&A. Apart from his mental state with the Cruciate, recovering with Langers, the well documented alcohol issues, his scary suicidal bits, the most Intelligent footballer label and his geographical limitations (Watford is NOT up north), any other topics for a Q&A?
I am hoping to come across as a caring, sympathetic fan boy, which is what I am... |  |
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| Clarke Carlisle Mental Health WEBEX on 19:05 - Oct 13 with 3529 views | nix |
Did he shout cross it Tommy along with every single QPR fan in the play off final against Cardiff (I can still see it now!). |  | | |
| Clarke Carlisle Mental Health WEBEX on 19:16 - Oct 13 with 3512 views | Discodroids |
God Bless Clarke. Anyone who has the courage to face the white light void of his own demons and admit they need help should be admired. No one on the face of this salted earth is wired up alike and human beings are not Hal9000 processors.
I'd like to know if he attended AA or Na Meetings and if he did, did other footballers. Did he gain anything from it? [Post edited 13 Oct 2022 19:21]
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| "...The monkey is never dead, Dealer. The monkey never dies. When you kick him off, he just hides in a corner, waiting his turn." |
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| Clarke Carlisle Mental Health WEBEX on 21:41 - Oct 13 with 3401 views | BrianMcCarthy |
I'd just like to know how he's feeling now. |  |
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| Clarke Carlisle Mental Health WEBEX on 22:15 - Oct 13 with 3348 views | rsocks |
Does he get a fee for this? |  | | |
| Clarke Carlisle Mental Health WEBEX on 22:23 - Oct 13 with 3323 views | davman |
It's next Wednesday ; I'll let you know how it goes... | |
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| Clarke Carlisle Mental Health WEBEX on 22:37 - Oct 13 with 3299 views | LythamR |
Just over 19 years since he went into Rehab. I used to be his home shirt sponsor and so when he went into rehab I set up supportclarke.co.uk as a place where people could leave messages for him. The response was fantastic from the QPR community including I am sure some current LFW members and also from the general football community. I dont recall one nasty comment that had to be moderated. or removed.
Internet and email wasnt allowed at the rehab clinic but as I recall Tracy Stent managed to get printouts of all the messages through to Clarke at the Clinic and i understand he was very moved by them at the time.
Its sobering to realise that quite a few of those messages were left by supporters who have since passed away. But many more of us are still here supporting the R's and backing our players. |  | | |
| Clarke Carlisle Mental Health WEBEX on 02:02 - Oct 14 with 3202 views | Benny_the_Ball |
Have Clarke and Ralf Little buried the hatchet?
What has Clarke done to make it up to those poor souls whose lives he ruined? |  | | |
| Clarke Carlisle Mental Health WEBEX on 04:12 - Oct 14 with 3181 views | TheRam |
This is such an interesting topic, and for me in particular, I always played football, 30 odd years I played. I had problems with my mental health and it was only after I finished playing that I was diagnosed with bipolar disorder. for me in the darkest times there was only one place I could escape to and that was the football pitch. I was the life and soul of the dressing room but it was more often than not a front but when I crossed the white line and lined up for or took kick off I had 90 minutes where my problems disappeared and I cared for nothing other than beating the 11 men in front of me. Often I’d be buzzing after games then generally drunk. I imagine though as a professional footballer, in the limelight, and, it’s your job it doesn’t give the same escape as it did me. I’d imagine it had the opposite effect for Clarke as a professional? I’d be interested to hear his views on escaping his demons, I’m guessing that’s where the drinking came in?
Peoples opinions on mental health are getting better, working in the building industry I’ve been pleasantly surprised by the attitude of colleagues when I’ve opened up on bad days. Football is another pseudo-macho world but I do think progress has been made there too with regards to mental health.
It’s interesting that this has come up tonight; I was watching the Manchester United game earlier and noticed that Garry Parker was omonia’s assistant manager. I played against Parker in his latter days and alongside him in midfield was joey beauchamp. I joked to my mate that he was famous for signing for West Ham being homesick and signing for Swindon. It was the first time I actually thought about the reasons for that, I found it relatable and only then remembered that sadly Beauchamp took his own life a few years back. My thoughts then turned to Stephen Caulker and the troubles he’s had and the reaction he got from fans, in the same way Clarke got shit. As a mate of mine used to say “only 10% of the world are arseholes” as football fans we’re very quick to judge, but we were always in the dark about was really going on behind the scenes. I truly believe that openness is the best way forward because instead of slating Clarke as I did at the time 90% would have had his back. I’m really pleased you and Clarke are doing this and look forward to it. People say suicide is a cowards way out but have any of us really got the balls to jump in front of a lorry? 😂. I didn’t, kidney failure from a massive overdose was as close as I got!😂. I really hope he’s well now, and hope what you’re doing helps any other pros/fans who are suffering. Well played xxx | | | |
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| Clarke Carlisle Mental Health WEBEX on 07:54 - Oct 14 with 3108 views | numptydumpty |
It's an ongoing battle.
Hope he is well generally these days.
Not sure when it was, around five years ago perhaps, he spoke at half time and was great speech.
On similar note, has anyone heard how Kenny Sansom getting on these days ??? |  |
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| Clarke Carlisle Mental Health WEBEX on 10:45 - Oct 14 with 2970 views | SheffieldHoop |
For anyone who's not heard it, Clarke's UndrTheCosh episode is fairly intense but a good listen and talks a lot about his time at QPR, division 2 Holloway etc |  |
| "Someone despises me. That's their problem." Marcus Aurelius |
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| Clarke Carlisle Mental Health WEBEX on 16:16 - Oct 14 with 2910 views | terryb |
Thank you for your post TheRam.
Accepting & admitting that I was suffering from depression ranks up there with the best things I've done with my life. Personally, I found accepting was the hardest of the two!
I hope the session with Clarke goes well davman & I'm pleased to see that a company(ies) are taking mental health seriously. | | | |
| Clarke Carlisle Mental Health WEBEX on 16:58 - Oct 14 with 2873 views | numptydumpty |
| Clarke Carlisle Mental Health WEBEX on 16:16 - Oct 14 by terryb |
Thank you for your post TheRam.
Accepting & admitting that I was suffering from depression ranks up there with the best things I've done with my life. Personally, I found accepting was the hardest of the two!
I hope the session with Clarke goes well davman & I'm pleased to see that a company(ies) are taking mental health seriously. |
Totally agree with you Terry
Even today its still the key part in recovery from depression, anxiety, stress, alcoholism or other addictions, the first step is admitting you have a problem and the second one which is the key to recovery is accepting any help thats out there going.
I work for two mental health related charities these days and the highest suicide casualty rate in the UK today is still men aged 25 to 45.
Ie men still massively see admitting weakness as a big problem when always it takes a big man to recognise that where he is heading is not a place he wishes to be and I have never seen anyone at all recover simply completely on their own and totally under their own steam.
Sometimes it can help when celebrities or well known figures admit to their own issues but sometimes people may say that they the latest to jump on the celebrity mental health band wagon.
Often either people have to experience it themselves or to someone very close to them to be aware of the devastating effects poor mental health can have and it even today is still greatly misunderstood.
well done davman for getting Clarke to represent himself in this way and hope the event goes well and many benefit from him being brave enough to open up about his darkest times. | |
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| Clarke Carlisle Mental Health WEBEX on 21:08 - Oct 14 with 2826 views | Toast_R |
Wasn't it Rufus Brevett he collided with when he ruined his knee?
Always liked Clarke, seems a lovely bloke. Glad he got to experience a brief spell in the Premier League and I hope he's getting all the support he needs to try a live a happy life. |  | | |
| Clarke Carlisle Mental Health WEBEX on 23:15 - Oct 14 with 2740 views | CiderwithRsie |
| Clarke Carlisle Mental Health WEBEX on 22:37 - Oct 13 by LythamR |
Just over 19 years since he went into Rehab. I used to be his home shirt sponsor and so when he went into rehab I set up supportclarke.co.uk as a place where people could leave messages for him. The response was fantastic from the QPR community including I am sure some current LFW members and also from the general football community. I dont recall one nasty comment that had to be moderated. or removed.
Internet and email wasnt allowed at the rehab clinic but as I recall Tracy Stent managed to get printouts of all the messages through to Clarke at the Clinic and i understand he was very moved by them at the time.
Its sobering to realise that quite a few of those messages were left by supporters who have since passed away. But many more of us are still here supporting the R's and backing our players. |
You did a good thing, Lytham. | | | |
| Clarke Carlisle Mental Health WEBEX on 03:42 - Oct 16 with 2592 views | TheRam |
| Clarke Carlisle Mental Health WEBEX on 16:58 - Oct 14 by numptydumpty |
Totally agree with you Terry
Even today its still the key part in recovery from depression, anxiety, stress, alcoholism or other addictions, the first step is admitting you have a problem and the second one which is the key to recovery is accepting any help thats out there going.
I work for two mental health related charities these days and the highest suicide casualty rate in the UK today is still men aged 25 to 45.
Ie men still massively see admitting weakness as a big problem when always it takes a big man to recognise that where he is heading is not a place he wishes to be and I have never seen anyone at all recover simply completely on their own and totally under their own steam.
Sometimes it can help when celebrities or well known figures admit to their own issues but sometimes people may say that they the latest to jump on the celebrity mental health band wagon.
Often either people have to experience it themselves or to someone very close to them to be aware of the devastating effects poor mental health can have and it even today is still greatly misunderstood.
well done davman for getting Clarke to represent himself in this way and hope the event goes well and many benefit from him being brave enough to open up about his darkest times. |
Really sorry, not for the first time I’ve hit the down arrow when I meant up, big thumbs, small phone! Good post by the way, and also agree with Terry. I have always struggled with my mental health and I think it was pretty clear to people due to my erratic behaviour. My older brother always seemed much more stable. I’m a very open person and talk about my battles but he’s far more closed. He surprised me one day by telling me he was depressed and taking meds for it. He hadn’t really said anything to anybody, but eventually he opened up to a colleague who said “oh yeah, I take those too, so does so and and so and so and…” if you don’t accept it you can’t get help and when you do accept it you need to know you’re not the odd one out, there’s lots of understanding through experience as sadly it’s all to common. The more open we are the more people will be comfortable talking about it themselves, trying to get through it on your own must be horrible, but I feel the more it’s discussed the easier it will be for people to open up about what’s going on in their lives. It pleases me to see it’s definitely moving in the right direction x | | | |
| Clarke Carlisle Mental Health WEBEX on 03:44 - Oct 16 with 2591 views | TheRam |
| Clarke Carlisle Mental Health WEBEX on 03:42 - Oct 16 by TheRam |
Really sorry, not for the first time I’ve hit the down arrow when I meant up, big thumbs, small phone! Good post by the way, and also agree with Terry. I have always struggled with my mental health and I think it was pretty clear to people due to my erratic behaviour. My older brother always seemed much more stable. I’m a very open person and talk about my battles but he’s far more closed. He surprised me one day by telling me he was depressed and taking meds for it. He hadn’t really said anything to anybody, but eventually he opened up to a colleague who said “oh yeah, I take those too, so does so and and so and so and…” if you don’t accept it you can’t get help and when you do accept it you need to know you’re not the odd one out, there’s lots of understanding through experience as sadly it’s all to common. The more open we are the more people will be comfortable talking about it themselves, trying to get through it on your own must be horrible, but I feel the more it’s discussed the easier it will be for people to open up about what’s going on in their lives. It pleases me to see it’s definitely moving in the right direction x |
By the way, if anyone is struggling, please feel free to drop me a message, I understand through my own experiences and would be happy to talk x | | | |
| Clarke Carlisle Mental Health WEBEX on 20:06 - Oct 25 with 2334 views | davman |
What with everything going on around QPR, I haven't got round to updating this thread after Clarke's talk. Sorry about that. Sorry about the length of the post - so much was said! Also please note that this is my account of what I heard - I may have got some details wrong (and Clarke may have got some wrong too); if so, sorry, honest mistake, just trying to pass the message along...
Firstly, Clarke is an exceptional speaker, on a par with Mark Prince for the sheer enthusiasm and ability to hold an audience. Second, his story is one hell of a story...
The talk wasn't just about Mental Health, but was also linked to the Black History month, so there was an overtone of his experiences from being bought up in the world by an extremely strict West Indian father and an English, white mother. He tells of his up bringing and although he respected his father, his dad was very strict and always expected the very best our of Clarke in every area - school, sport and interactions with people. Clarke was desperate to please his dad and put himself under incredible pressure to do that and to be the best version of himself.
His family moved into a predominately white Preston estate when he was at school age and often "felt like a Chameleon" having to change how he was to fit in with different groups. Sometimes he felt that he did not fit in with black family and friends and other times he didn't fit in with the white ones either. He tells a story where his mum wanted him to speak "the Queens English" to fit in and when he went to a family gathering and his grandad heard him, his grandad replied in a heavy Jamaican accent "why you speak like that?". Then a few months later he approached his grandad addressing him in Jamaican only to be told "speak properly boy" in an English accent!
Did well at school with 5 A* GCSEs and then signed for Blackpool for £27.50 per week at 16 years old. Made his debut at Wrexham, was responsible for both goals causing the team to be 2-0 down at half time. Half time talk, the words of wisdom from the manager were: "Look on the bright side, son, you can't be any worse in the second half. He wasn't, he raised his game to be mediocre (!) and the team won 4-3.
His second game, B'pool won 2-1 and Clarke got the last minute winner. His dad was in the crowd (which was normal as he watched every game Clarke played in), but his mum was also there (she rarely watched) - a v. proud moment.
In the early days of being a professional at Blackpool, he recalled one episode where a senior coach threw a banana at him in the changing room and made some wise crack about Clarke "wearing shoes". There were players around him, white and black, pssing themselves laughing, so Clarke just felt that he had to laugh along - it was the norm and there was no-one to go to for any sort of guidance; it was just a case of "get on with it".
Then he signed for QPR — at this point my ears pricked up. His starting wage, in the second tier back in 2000 before Admin and relegation was… £2,500 per week — WOW!
He told the story of that night game and that collision with Rufus Brevett and the injury. In the early days of his recovery, his consultant told him to expect never to play football again and that he’d probably end up walking with a stick. This, the loneliness of having to train alone, the lack of proper counselling and the isolation of living miles from family by himself in a flat in London started a spiral. He convinced himself that he had failed and that he would never make anything with his life, so took 52 painkillers in his first suicide attempt. He was found by his then girlfriend, who saved his life by getting his stomach pumped. QPR did not want this story to get out. He felt that there was no specific counselling network and although people clearly cared, the outcome was very much a “get on with it” attitude.
After QPR, he went to Leeds, but never really got on with the hierarchy there and ended up going to Watford. He told a great story about Ken Bates, who sent him a bouquet of flowers when he left for Watford with the message “good luck at Watford — you’ll need it”. At the end of his first season Watford played Leeds in the play-off final and won 3-0 after which Clarke sent Ken a bouquet with the message “good luck in the Championship you’ll need it”!
During his playing days, you’ll remember that he became the Players rep for the PFA, a role he is very proud of. At the time, there was a movement from some black players to set up a Black Players PFA. Although Clarke mentioned a name, I won’t (rest assured it was no-one to do with QPR), but when he approached them to say there was already a PFA that could represent all players, he was told “you don’t represent us”. He was distraught and this was another area he struggled with — if he was not considered as “one of their own”, then who was he?
After the playing career, he continued to struggle with not playing, not being around the changing room and general mental issues culminating in a story you would all have heard. He felt that he had “failed” at his suicide attempt earlier in his life and decided that this time he’d do it properly. He stood in front on an on-rushing truck travelling at 60mph on the A64 outside York, determined to end it all. Amazingly, no bones were broken and he survived. This was what he sees as the catalyst for his recovery.
He went into Psychiatric Care following the incident and for the first time received a medical diagnosis and a prescription for treatment that he followed religiously this time (in the past, he had been given pills, but didn’t feel that he needed them). This was his road to recovery. His advice to everyone in such a place is threefold: 1. GET THE DIAGNOSIS — seek out health professionals for help, let them diagnose, then do what they ask; 2. Take any medication they prescribe; 3. Engage with talking therapies. The temptation is to talk things through with a mate or a loved one, but Clarke’s view is that they are not always the best as they have a vested interest in you and may well turn things on to the effect on them, which may not help…
Then we went on to Q&A and I got in there first. First question was around “Square it Tommy”. Clarke laughed and said yes, we were all in that place! But then he “confirmed” a rumour I think we have all heard — he believes that QPR would have had to fall back into Admin if we had won that game for a variety of reasons (presumable promotion bonuses), so maybe it was the best outcome (if so, thanks Tommy!).
I also mentioned the comments LythamR mentioned from QPR fans. His response was slightly different from how Lytham recalls things earlier in this thread. He said “I still have those comments in a shoebox upstairs and I have read all of them and am immensely grateful for each and every one — of course they mean so much BUT at the time, I couldn’t even look at them; I viewed them as pity, which I did not want or need. Since then, I now know and please pass my thanks on” — so here you are!
My final Q was around that subject — if any of us have a loved one going through this, using his experience, what is the best way to approach the subject. His answer was something I had not thought about nor expected. He said that the temptation for everyone is to ask how someone is. In his experience that is not the best thing to say — you would not immediately think of using that line if you found a mate with a broken leg as the answer is probably obvious. Questions more around, “how can I help”, “is there anything you need right now” are useful and do what you say you will do. Ask others for help; encourage the individual to get help from the experts, that sort of thing.
The other thing he said that I have never heard is that there are three conditions that put you to the head of the queue in A&E and one of those is "having suicidal thoughts" - not trying to commit suicide, but simply thinking about it - useful to know if you have concerns over a loved one...
I ended by asking Clarke to keep well, reminding him that he was a popular member of the QPR family and thanking him — it was an awesome spend of an hour and a half at work. [Post edited 25 Oct 2022 20:16]
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| Clarke Carlisle Mental Health WEBEX on 20:59 - Oct 25 with 2272 views | terryb |
Thank you davman. | | | |
| Clarke Carlisle Mental Health WEBEX on 21:25 - Oct 25 with 2243 views | BrianMcCarthy |
Thanks Davman. Great work, and great report.
A friend of a friend died of suicide over the weekend. Good to know that people are working hard on this illness. | |
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| Clarke Carlisle Mental Health WEBEX on 05:01 - Oct 26 with 2096 views | nix |
Thanks Davman. Excellent report. It sounds like a really moving and thought-provoking evening.
It's worrying how little support he received for his mental health from the club. I hope things would be so much better now.
Hopefully the thoughts of someone in one of the most macho professions would give permission to any man who is feeling suicidal to look for help. | | | |
| Clarke Carlisle Mental Health WEBEX on 05:32 - Oct 26 with 2084 views | nix |
| Clarke Carlisle Mental Health WEBEX on 21:25 - Oct 25 by BrianMcCarthy |
Thanks Davman. Great work, and great report.
A friend of a friend died of suicide over the weekend. Good to know that people are working hard on this illness. |
I'm so sorry Brian. I've experienced this, where someone I know has lost a friend or family member to suicide. Tragically a couple of these have been very young. It's a terrible feeling, even if it's not someone directly close to you.
I'll just pass on a couple of organisations (for general info, not just for Brian!) that support people with suicidal thoughts or affected by suicide.
Papyrus: supports young people under 35. Tel 0800 068 41 41 They are available to young people u35 and concerned friends and family for advice and support by phone, text message and chat.
Calm: (campaign against living miserably. Tel: 0800 58 58 58 (5pm to midnight). They are a similar organisation to the Samaritans but I prefer them as they are a bit more proactive in offering conversation and support. Samaritans can tend to be v purist in just listening, which can feel a bit alienating for some people if you're feeling v alone.
Samaritans: Tel: 116 123. (Available round the clock)
Survivors of Bereavement by Suicide (SOBS): 0300 111 5065 Monday, Tuesday 9am to 5pm and by email for support.
Maytree: 020 7263 7070. They offer a helpline but also a respite centre for people with suicidal thoughts. You can stay there on a one off basis for four nights to heal and receive support and care. Obviously there's massive demand for this service.
If someone would like to know about specific organisations for eg. Addiction services, survivors of childhood abuse, domestic abuse etc, please DM me and I may know of a specialist organisation that can help. Websites of the organisations I've cited can offer lots of advice and suggestions, so even if you don't want to call them, go to their websites. | | | |
| Clarke Carlisle Mental Health WEBEX on 07:54 - Oct 26 with 2001 views | TheChef |
| Clarke Carlisle Mental Health WEBEX on 19:05 - Oct 13 by nix |
Did he shout cross it Tommy along with every single QPR fan in the play off final against Cardiff (I can still see it now!). |
Does a replay exist of this?
In my mind it was never as clear-cut a chance as people make out, had he crossed it. |  |
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| Clarke Carlisle Mental Health WEBEX on 09:37 - Oct 26 with 1941 views | BrianMcCarthy |
| Clarke Carlisle Mental Health WEBEX on 05:32 - Oct 26 by nix |
I'm so sorry Brian. I've experienced this, where someone I know has lost a friend or family member to suicide. Tragically a couple of these have been very young. It's a terrible feeling, even if it's not someone directly close to you.
I'll just pass on a couple of organisations (for general info, not just for Brian!) that support people with suicidal thoughts or affected by suicide.
Papyrus: supports young people under 35. Tel 0800 068 41 41 They are available to young people u35 and concerned friends and family for advice and support by phone, text message and chat.
Calm: (campaign against living miserably. Tel: 0800 58 58 58 (5pm to midnight). They are a similar organisation to the Samaritans but I prefer them as they are a bit more proactive in offering conversation and support. Samaritans can tend to be v purist in just listening, which can feel a bit alienating for some people if you're feeling v alone.
Samaritans: Tel: 116 123. (Available round the clock)
Survivors of Bereavement by Suicide (SOBS): 0300 111 5065 Monday, Tuesday 9am to 5pm and by email for support.
Maytree: 020 7263 7070. They offer a helpline but also a respite centre for people with suicidal thoughts. You can stay there on a one off basis for four nights to heal and receive support and care. Obviously there's massive demand for this service.
If someone would like to know about specific organisations for eg. Addiction services, survivors of childhood abuse, domestic abuse etc, please DM me and I may know of a specialist organisation that can help. Websites of the organisations I've cited can offer lots of advice and suggestions, so even if you don't want to call them, go to their websites. |
Great advice, Nix. Thank you.
In this instance I didn't know Padraig, the deceased. But we're obviously chatting about how best to help our mutual friend Martin.
I've experienced this first-hand and our GAA Club have had as our charity partners a Suicide Awareness and Prevention organisation called Breaking the Silence, who are incredible.
If anyone based in Ireland ever feels the need for whatever reason to contact them, like Nix said about the UK-based organisations she mentioned - just DM me. | |
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| Clarke Carlisle Mental Health WEBEX on 11:09 - Oct 26 with 1896 views | nix |
| Clarke Carlisle Mental Health WEBEX on 09:37 - Oct 26 by BrianMcCarthy |
Great advice, Nix. Thank you.
In this instance I didn't know Padraig, the deceased. But we're obviously chatting about how best to help our mutual friend Martin.
I've experienced this first-hand and our GAA Club have had as our charity partners a Suicide Awareness and Prevention organisation called Breaking the Silence, who are incredible.
If anyone based in Ireland ever feels the need for whatever reason to contact them, like Nix said about the UK-based organisations she mentioned - just DM me. |
That sounds like a wonderful charity Brian. Having support can make a fantastic difference. | | | |
| Clarke Carlisle Mental Health WEBEX on 13:24 - Oct 26 with 1817 views | StevenageRanger |
Thansk for sharing this. Really insightful read. | | | |
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