| Andy Belk video....Is this working? 16:14 - Jan 8 with 11373 views | BillericayR |
Been head of recruitment for 3 years.
Analysing possible signings.
Produced a 36 page dossier for Paal.
With our striker recruitment and loans who mostly are always injured or ill is this working?
Would we ever have bought Stan Bowles using this type of analysis?
Now 8 days in to January and still no movement on any possible signings. Are they waiting again for a panic Hendrick signing? |  | | |  |
| Andy Belk video....Is this working? on 16:42 - Jan 8 with 4794 views | Rangersw12 |
The problem for me seems to be we don't use him enough
We have a mix of Belk signings and signings that the manager knew and wanted prime example of the manger signings are Wallace under Warburton and Balogun under Beale | | | |
| Andy Belk video....Is this working? on 16:53 - Jan 8 with 4736 views | Northernr |
For me, Belk is a good guy.
He's a grown up in the room. At a club that, even four or five years ago, was basing its signings on agents Gary Penrice knows, and paying £500k for Sean Goss, he's trying to bring in and grow structures and recruitment practises that other clubs have been doing for years and years. People like Willock are here because of him - fans really happy to put Neil Banfield together with the Arsenal connection and come up with five on that one, he had fck all to do with it.
When we got beaten by Luton, we all point at their strikers and say 'well they can do it why can't we?', but Luton have been doing it by employing people like Belk, building a recruitment team and analytics, and using that, and they;'ve been doing it a lot longer than we have. Nathan Jones had fck all to do with who Luton were signing, which is why he goes to other clubs and doesn't do as well, while Luton carry on without him without missing a beat. IMO we're much better off doubling down, and doubling down again with Belk, and his team, than we are several other people drawing large salaries at QPR at the moment while producing very little.
From a PR point of view I thought it a bit odd to put out a video interview with him - and he's very reticent to give interviews and very cautious in how he speaks publicly in my experience - at this moment, when the recruitment in the summer was all over the map, and the recruitment this january will be extremely challenging and largely spent mopping up a lot of mess Beale has left here. But, again in my opinion, that's not his fault, it's the club once again letting three or four different people recruit and push players for three or four different reasons and agendas - in this case, in particular, letting Beale bring in loads of his boys and tell tall tales about how he used to read them bed time stories when they were six years old. If they went with Belk and Belk alone, and the manager had to deal with what he got, we'd be in a much better position IMO. But you put that video out, and things continue to go to sht, and people inevitably point fingers at him. I get that, but it's nothing to do with him. He's one of the good guys here atm.
This post has been edited by an administrator |  | | |
| Andy Belk video....Is this working? on 16:58 - Jan 8 with 4696 views | Rangersw12 |
| Andy Belk video....Is this working? on 16:53 - Jan 8 by Northernr |
For me, Belk is a good guy.
He's a grown up in the room. At a club that, even four or five years ago, was basing its signings on agents Gary Penrice knows, and paying £500k for Sean Goss, he's trying to bring in and grow structures and recruitment practises that other clubs have been doing for years and years. People like Willock are here because of him - fans really happy to put Neil Banfield together with the Arsenal connection and come up with five on that one, he had fck all to do with it.
When we got beaten by Luton, we all point at their strikers and say 'well they can do it why can't we?', but Luton have been doing it by employing people like Belk, building a recruitment team and analytics, and using that, and they;'ve been doing it a lot longer than we have. Nathan Jones had fck all to do with who Luton were signing, which is why he goes to other clubs and doesn't do as well, while Luton carry on without him without missing a beat. IMO we're much better off doubling down, and doubling down again with Belk, and his team, than we are several other people drawing large salaries at QPR at the moment while producing very little.
From a PR point of view I thought it a bit odd to put out a video interview with him - and he's very reticent to give interviews and very cautious in how he speaks publicly in my experience - at this moment, when the recruitment in the summer was all over the map, and the recruitment this january will be extremely challenging and largely spent mopping up a lot of mess Beale has left here. But, again in my opinion, that's not his fault, it's the club once again letting three or four different people recruit and push players for three or four different reasons and agendas - in this case, in particular, letting Beale bring in loads of his boys and tell tall tales about how he used to read them bed time stories when they were six years old. If they went with Belk and Belk alone, and the manager had to deal with what he got, we'd be in a much better position IMO. But you put that video out, and things continue to go to sht, and people inevitably point fingers at him. I get that, but it's nothing to do with him. He's one of the good guys here atm.
This post has been edited by an administrator |
So what's the DOF role in all this?
Do you think he's being overruled or is he part of the problem? [Post edited 8 Jan 2023 17:01]
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| Andy Belk video....Is this working? on 16:59 - Jan 8 with 4685 views | Northernr |
| Andy Belk video....Is this working? on 16:58 - Jan 8 by Rangersw12 |
So what's the DOF role in all this?
Do you think he's being overruled or is he part of the problem? [Post edited 8 Jan 2023 17:01]
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Sorry mate, who being overruled by who? | | | |
| Andy Belk video....Is this working? on 17:11 - Jan 8 with 4625 views | Rangersw12 |
| Andy Belk video....Is this working? on 16:59 - Jan 8 by Northernr |
Sorry mate, who being overruled by who? |
For me it seems pretty simple that the DOF should be the one setting our recruitment strategy and that we should be using Belk etc and not allowing the manager to sign who he wants
So does this sit with the DOF for not implementing this or is there still outside influences I. E TF wanting Austin and muddying the waters
Hope that makes sense | | | |
| Andy Belk video....Is this working? on 17:17 - Jan 8 with 4598 views | Dixie_CT |
| Andy Belk video....Is this working? on 16:58 - Jan 8 by Rangersw12 |
So what's the DOF role in all this?
Do you think he's being overruled or is he part of the problem? [Post edited 8 Jan 2023 17:01]
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Good question and I read it as; what is Les’s role in all this? are others I.e Warburton, Beale etc, over ruling Les?
From the video with Belk, it would seem that Belk doesn’t have much say, if any, in the final decision. |  | | |
| Andy Belk video....Is this working? on 17:47 - Jan 8 with 4457 views | DejR_vu |
| Andy Belk video....Is this working? on 16:58 - Jan 8 by Rangersw12 |
So what's the DOF role in all this?
Do you think he's being overruled or is he part of the problem? [Post edited 8 Jan 2023 17:01]
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"several other people drawing large salaries at QPR at the moment while producing very little."
Money we certainly can't afford carrying passengers.
I wonder how much these people have pulled out of the club over the years, whilst we've been battling to get a competitive team out on the pitch, bemoaning FFP / P&S? [Post edited 8 Jan 2023 17:51]
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| Andy Belk video....Is this working? on 17:48 - Jan 8 with 4456 views | Northernr |
| Andy Belk video....Is this working? on 17:11 - Jan 8 by Rangersw12 |
For me it seems pretty simple that the DOF should be the one setting our recruitment strategy and that we should be using Belk etc and not allowing the manager to sign who he wants
So does this sit with the DOF for not implementing this or is there still outside influences I. E TF wanting Austin and muddying the waters
Hope that makes sense |
I agree with your first line, and I don't know the answer to your second.
For me, signings like Odubajo, Balogun, Dom Ball, should not be happening in this system. Renewing Lee Wallace's contract, should not be happening. I should not be doing summer interviews with managers having them talk about bringing players in they've known since they were 8, talking about all the agents they've been on the phone to. | | | |
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| Andy Belk video....Is this working? on 17:55 - Jan 8 with 4407 views | PunteR |
| Andy Belk video....Is this working? on 17:48 - Jan 8 by Northernr |
I agree with your first line, and I don't know the answer to your second.
For me, signings like Odubajo, Balogun, Dom Ball, should not be happening in this system. Renewing Lee Wallace's contract, should not be happening. I should not be doing summer interviews with managers having them talk about bringing players in they've known since they were 8, talking about all the agents they've been on the phone to. |
The problem is are they are bringing in better players than the recruitment team.? |  |
| Occasional providers of half decent House music. |
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| Andy Belk video....Is this working? on 17:56 - Jan 8 with 4400 views | PunteR |
| Andy Belk video....Is this working? on 16:53 - Jan 8 by Northernr |
For me, Belk is a good guy.
He's a grown up in the room. At a club that, even four or five years ago, was basing its signings on agents Gary Penrice knows, and paying £500k for Sean Goss, he's trying to bring in and grow structures and recruitment practises that other clubs have been doing for years and years. People like Willock are here because of him - fans really happy to put Neil Banfield together with the Arsenal connection and come up with five on that one, he had fck all to do with it.
When we got beaten by Luton, we all point at their strikers and say 'well they can do it why can't we?', but Luton have been doing it by employing people like Belk, building a recruitment team and analytics, and using that, and they;'ve been doing it a lot longer than we have. Nathan Jones had fck all to do with who Luton were signing, which is why he goes to other clubs and doesn't do as well, while Luton carry on without him without missing a beat. IMO we're much better off doubling down, and doubling down again with Belk, and his team, than we are several other people drawing large salaries at QPR at the moment while producing very little.
From a PR point of view I thought it a bit odd to put out a video interview with him - and he's very reticent to give interviews and very cautious in how he speaks publicly in my experience - at this moment, when the recruitment in the summer was all over the map, and the recruitment this january will be extremely challenging and largely spent mopping up a lot of mess Beale has left here. But, again in my opinion, that's not his fault, it's the club once again letting three or four different people recruit and push players for three or four different reasons and agendas - in this case, in particular, letting Beale bring in loads of his boys and tell tall tales about how he used to read them bed time stories when they were six years old. If they went with Belk and Belk alone, and the manager had to deal with what he got, we'd be in a much better position IMO. But you put that video out, and things continue to go to sht, and people inevitably point fingers at him. I get that, but it's nothing to do with him. He's one of the good guys here atm.
This post has been edited by an administrator |
yeh i wondered about the timing of that video too.
Kind of throwing him under the bus a bit i thought. | |
| Occasional providers of half decent House music. |
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| Andy Belk video....Is this working? on 17:57 - Jan 8 with 4391 views | Northernr |
| Andy Belk video....Is this working? on 17:55 - Jan 8 by PunteR |
The problem is are they are bringing in better players than the recruitment team.? |
No, not in my view, and when they then leave you have problems like we've now clearly got with Beale's boys, and had in the summer when you've got no budget because it's been spent and no full backs because they're both old and sht. | | | |
| Andy Belk video....Is this working? on 18:06 - Jan 8 with 4345 views | PunteR |
| Andy Belk video....Is this working? on 17:57 - Jan 8 by Northernr |
No, not in my view, and when they then leave you have problems like we've now clearly got with Beale's boys, and had in the summer when you've got no budget because it's been spent and no full backs because they're both old and sht. |
Well Beale left but the rest of the managers were sacked or contracts not renewed. | |
| Occasional providers of half decent House music. |
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| Andy Belk video....Is this working? on 18:07 - Jan 8 with 4345 views | YokelR |
| Andy Belk video....Is this working? on 16:53 - Jan 8 by Northernr |
For me, Belk is a good guy.
He's a grown up in the room. At a club that, even four or five years ago, was basing its signings on agents Gary Penrice knows, and paying £500k for Sean Goss, he's trying to bring in and grow structures and recruitment practises that other clubs have been doing for years and years. People like Willock are here because of him - fans really happy to put Neil Banfield together with the Arsenal connection and come up with five on that one, he had fck all to do with it.
When we got beaten by Luton, we all point at their strikers and say 'well they can do it why can't we?', but Luton have been doing it by employing people like Belk, building a recruitment team and analytics, and using that, and they;'ve been doing it a lot longer than we have. Nathan Jones had fck all to do with who Luton were signing, which is why he goes to other clubs and doesn't do as well, while Luton carry on without him without missing a beat. IMO we're much better off doubling down, and doubling down again with Belk, and his team, than we are several other people drawing large salaries at QPR at the moment while producing very little.
From a PR point of view I thought it a bit odd to put out a video interview with him - and he's very reticent to give interviews and very cautious in how he speaks publicly in my experience - at this moment, when the recruitment in the summer was all over the map, and the recruitment this january will be extremely challenging and largely spent mopping up a lot of mess Beale has left here. But, again in my opinion, that's not his fault, it's the club once again letting three or four different people recruit and push players for three or four different reasons and agendas - in this case, in particular, letting Beale bring in loads of his boys and tell tall tales about how he used to read them bed time stories when they were six years old. If they went with Belk and Belk alone, and the manager had to deal with what he got, we'd be in a much better position IMO. But you put that video out, and things continue to go to sht, and people inevitably point fingers at him. I get that, but it's nothing to do with him. He's one of the good guys here atm.
This post has been edited by an administrator |
Really interesting post, I agree give the man the job and let him do it. Stay the course he won't turn things round in a few months. But also have a long hard look at other people at the club. Not the owners obviously, thank God they've stuck with it but we are carrying some real under performers if we can sack managers we can sack others. | | | |
| Andy Belk video....Is this working? on 18:22 - Jan 8 with 4274 views | PunteR |
I've got a bit of an issue with this manager verses the modern stats /moneyball/recruitment team.
I do get it that a manager is surplus to requirements these days but surely if you have someone managing a team you have to have a level of trust in his judgment of players otherwise whats the point of him being there?
There are things that a stats team cant calculate. One of them being how they respond to a certain manager.
Look at Warnocks time. He knew what made players tick, he got the best out of them.
Anyway, something is clearly not working atm and maybe its the managers fault for putting their own players in front of the recruitment teams . | |
| Occasional providers of half decent House music. |
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| Andy Belk video....Is this working? on 18:33 - Jan 8 with 4201 views | Hooping_Mad |
Les is in charge of all footballing matters, Neil is first Team coach. Who does Andy report to is where the problems start. It started with and finished off Warbs, The Mole wasn't impressed either.
Were they both wrong about the setup? Probably time for a careful rethink. | |
| Chairman of the Junior Hoilett appreciation society |
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| Andy Belk video....Is this working? on 19:54 - Jan 8 with 4020 views | Rangersw12 |
| Andy Belk video....Is this working? on 18:22 - Jan 8 by PunteR |
I've got a bit of an issue with this manager verses the modern stats /moneyball/recruitment team.
I do get it that a manager is surplus to requirements these days but surely if you have someone managing a team you have to have a level of trust in his judgment of players otherwise whats the point of him being there?
There are things that a stats team cant calculate. One of them being how they respond to a certain manager.
Look at Warnocks time. He knew what made players tick, he got the best out of them.
Anyway, something is clearly not working atm and maybe its the managers fault for putting their own players in front of the recruitment teams . |
Warnock is a great example on why it shouldn't be left to the manager
He signed dross Barton, SWP and Luke Young and countless others
Also as we sack managers regularly you get layers and layers of other managers players that are surplus to requirements [Post edited 8 Jan 2023 19:57]
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| Andy Belk video....Is this working? on 20:08 - Jan 8 with 3922 views | Wilkinswatercarrier |
Managers signing players is fine, if you keep him for a long time like Fergie, Clough etc, but that model was 30/40 years ago, when there was less money and more patience in the game.
European teams were using DoF decades ago, we've only really started in the past 10.
I would prefer if the coach coached and let the analytics team sign the players. We're soon going to be in the position where we will have players signed by Warburton, Beale and now Critchley, plus those by Belk. What a mess.
It needs the DoF to say no more bloody loans and no more players who you knew when they were U12s.
I just want to see players who play entertaing football, give a toss and are ours. | | | |
| Andy Belk video....Is this working? on 20:13 - Jan 8 with 3900 views | VancouverHoop |
| Andy Belk video....Is this working? on 19:54 - Jan 8 by Rangersw12 |
Warnock is a great example on why it shouldn't be left to the manager
He signed dross Barton, SWP and Luke Young and countless others
Also as we sack managers regularly you get layers and layers of other managers players that are surplus to requirements [Post edited 8 Jan 2023 19:57]
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There were issues with Warnock I don't doubt, but his signings of the players you mention wasn't one of them.
Don't forget though we'd just got promoted, the club was sold two weeks before the beginning of the Premier League season. We needed a few players with experience at that level. There weren't a lot of options. | | | |
| Andy Belk video....Is this working? on 20:28 - Jan 8 with 3831 views | Monkey_Roots |
If you listened to Beale, he’d have you think he bought Paal to the club?
Smoke and mirrors with that turd. |  | | |
| Andy Belk video....Is this working? on 21:57 - Jan 8 with 3718 views | BklynRanger |
| Andy Belk video....Is this working? on 17:56 - Jan 8 by PunteR |
yeh i wondered about the timing of that video too.
Kind of throwing him under the bus a bit i thought. |
I read/viewed it as Belk wanting to make it clear that Beale (PBBC) shouldn't try to take the credit for, for example, the Paal signing - felt there was a bit of professional pride behind it and wanting to set the record straight.
I'm glad to hear he's a decent sort and he does seem very committed (though I wasn't convinced by that pyramid to be completely honest!) Anyway that role with our finances must be a constantly frustrating one. |  | | |
| Andy Belk video....Is this working? on 22:05 - Jan 8 with 3699 views | Northernr |
| Andy Belk video....Is this working? on 21:57 - Jan 8 by BklynRanger |
I read/viewed it as Belk wanting to make it clear that Beale (PBBC) shouldn't try to take the credit for, for example, the Paal signing - felt there was a bit of professional pride behind it and wanting to set the record straight.
I'm glad to hear he's a decent sort and he does seem very committed (though I wasn't convinced by that pyramid to be completely honest!) Anyway that role with our finances must be a constantly frustrating one. |
But Paal wasn't their first choice, George Cox was. | | | |
| Andy Belk video....Is this working? on 22:19 - Jan 8 with 3639 views | BklynRanger |
| Andy Belk video....Is this working? on 22:05 - Jan 8 by Northernr |
But Paal wasn't their first choice, George Cox was. |
Fair enough but he uses Paal as his example.
What exactly are you driving at Whitteringham? | | | |
| Andy Belk video....Is this working? on 22:30 - Jan 8 with 3582 views | BazzaInTheLoft |
I might have only heard about Belk five minutes ago, but I’m certain he needs to go. |  | | |
| Andy Belk video....Is this working? on 22:35 - Jan 8 with 3566 views | BazzaInTheLoft |
| Andy Belk video....Is this working? on 22:05 - Jan 8 by Northernr |
But Paal wasn't their first choice, George Cox was. |
At least Cox Out on a massive bedsheet would have been amusing. | | | |
| Andy Belk video....Is this working? on 23:01 - Jan 8 with 3486 views | daveB |
| Andy Belk video....Is this working? on 18:22 - Jan 8 by PunteR |
I've got a bit of an issue with this manager verses the modern stats /moneyball/recruitment team.
I do get it that a manager is surplus to requirements these days but surely if you have someone managing a team you have to have a level of trust in his judgment of players otherwise whats the point of him being there?
There are things that a stats team cant calculate. One of them being how they respond to a certain manager.
Look at Warnocks time. He knew what made players tick, he got the best out of them.
Anyway, something is clearly not working atm and maybe its the managers fault for putting their own players in front of the recruitment teams . |
I think the ideal scenario is that all parties work together. You don't sign a player the manager doesn't want as he won't play him but if you are working together what the manager wants and what the recruitment team suggest should be the same thing |  | | |
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