| Immigration. Labour seem more active than the Tories were. 13:16 - Nov 9 with 5259 views | ReslovenSwan1 |
https://news.sky.com/story/denmark-has-a-cosy-international-reputation-but-warmt
To be fair to Starmer and his government they seem too c be coming up with more and better ideas than Starmer May And Johnson were.
Asleep at the wheel. UK had the good life 2013-2018 with no boat as the EU took the migration hit.
Once immigration is under control as in Denmark the Welsh "Nation of Scantuary" looks a lot better. |  |
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| Immigration. Labour seem more active than the Tories were. on 00:35 - Nov 11 with 1406 views | ReslovenSwan1 |
| Immigration. Labour seem more active than the Tories were. on 19:54 - Nov 10 by Joesus_Of_Narbereth |
Brexit happened in 2020, not 2016. The boats started because the authorities in Calais dismantled the ‘jungle camps’ and put infrastructure in place that made it very difficult to break in to Britain by jumping on a lorry/train.
The mass immigration to Europe by Asian/african economic migrants with the intention to smuggle themselves to Britain is an issue that long predates Brexit. Even Only fools and horses did an episode of it and that started in 1981.
The economy has been stagnating for twenty years. We’ve had a financial crash, a global pandemic and Putin’s warmongering to deal with since then as well as a succession of abjectly incompetent nincompoops walking our corridors of power.
How anyone can pin all these pre existing problems solely on Brexit is beyond me. Some people would clean up the medals if there were an Olympic event for mental gymnastics. |
European goodwill and lack of cooperation started on 2016.
Given that millions entered Europe in 2013 it is strange that without European intervention that it was not at all an issue for political parties until 2018.
I believe the European s could stop it very easily but have Farage's words ringing in their ears. What goes around comes around. | |
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| Immigration. Labour seem more active than the Tories were. on 17:48 - Nov 12 with 1278 views | Joesus_Of_Narbereth |
| Immigration. Labour seem more active than the Tories were. on 00:35 - Nov 11 by ReslovenSwan1 |
European goodwill and lack of cooperation started on 2016.
Given that millions entered Europe in 2013 it is strange that without European intervention that it was not at all an issue for political parties until 2018.
I believe the European s could stop it very easily but have Farage's words ringing in their ears. What goes around comes around. |
Goodwill and cooperation were in short shrift when we were in the EU. The French alone liked nothing more than shafting the British farmers and fishermen, or threatening to cut the power off to the Channel Islands, banning British beef long after they were ordered to lift the ban after the small risk had expired. It’s a union in name but not in reality. |  |
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| Immigration. Labour seem more active than the Tories were. on 20:48 - Nov 12 with 1228 views | Gwyn737 |
| Immigration. Labour seem more active than the Tories were. on 17:48 - Nov 12 by Joesus_Of_Narbereth |
Goodwill and cooperation were in short shrift when we were in the EU. The French alone liked nothing more than shafting the British farmers and fishermen, or threatening to cut the power off to the Channel Islands, banning British beef long after they were ordered to lift the ban after the small risk had expired. It’s a union in name but not in reality. |
Do you think farming and fishing has been positively effected by Brexit? |  | | |
| Immigration. Labour seem more active than the Tories were. on 00:58 - Nov 13 with 1185 views | Robbie |
Starmers manifesto if in Office was to scrap the Rwanda plan , Income Tax rises were not part of the way ahead in his promises if elected . yer right there .
Fast Forward , he has his sunk the Bibby Stockholm idea , elf and safety innit so cannot put the illegal immigrants there , their Human Rights are being abused .
Chuck them all in Hotels and the Taxpayer will foot the bill anyway , lets chuck some more money at France and say please stop can you stop the now larger dingies , nope .
Appreciate the last lot were useless too in controlling the small boats just to add .
This guy at No.10 is a Human Rights lawyer with the charisma and personality of a wet lettuce . | | | |
| Immigration. Labour seem more active than the Tories were. on 16:16 - Nov 13 with 1122 views | felixstowe_jack |
| Immigration. Labour seem more active than the Tories were. on 20:48 - Nov 12 by Gwyn737 |
Do you think farming and fishing has been positively effected by Brexit? |
Yes the UK fishing quota has increased since Brexit and we no longer have to pay huge sums to support French Farmers. | |
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| Immigration. Labour seem more active than the Tories were. on 20:25 - Nov 13 with 1059 views | Gwyn737 |
| Immigration. Labour seem more active than the Tories were. on 16:16 - Nov 13 by felixstowe_jack |
Yes the UK fishing quota has increased since Brexit and we no longer have to pay huge sums to support French Farmers. |
Yet exports of fish to the EU has dropped by about 30% since 2019. And there’s increased bureaucracy and delays. And any uplift in quotas has gone to the big corporations who’ve managed to find ways around issues.
Similar issues for farmers. They’ve lost their EU subsides but you only remembered to mention what went in. | | | |
| Immigration. Labour seem more active than the Tories were. on 20:52 - Nov 13 with 1034 views | Boundy |
| Immigration. Labour seem more active than the Tories were. on 20:25 - Nov 13 by Gwyn737 |
Yet exports of fish to the EU has dropped by about 30% since 2019. And there’s increased bureaucracy and delays. And any uplift in quotas has gone to the big corporations who’ve managed to find ways around issues.
Similar issues for farmers. They’ve lost their EU subsides but you only remembered to mention what went in. |
Gwyn if there is blame to be apportioned regarding the supposed failure of Brexit who in your opinion should that blame be given to, the people who voted for it, the politician who, on all sides , did everything they could to disrupt the process, the politicians who promised success or the EU for making it as difficult as they can to ensure it wouldn't work. | |
| "In a free society, the State is the servant of the people—not the master." |
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| Immigration. Labour seem more active than the Tories were. on 21:37 - Nov 13 with 1003 views | majorraglan |
| Immigration. Labour seem more active than the Tories were. on 16:16 - Nov 13 by felixstowe_jack |
Yes the UK fishing quota has increased since Brexit and we no longer have to pay huge sums to support French Farmers. |
The quota may have increased, but the number of fishermen/women working in the U.K. fishing industry post Brexit has decreased by 17% so that’s 2000 less jobs. Fish stocks are lower while red tape has increased. As a result U.K. seafood exports are down 26% compared to 2019 (pre Brexit)
Less exports, less jobs, less fish is hardly a success story. [Post edited 13 Nov 21:38]
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| Immigration. Labour seem more active than the Tories were. on 21:46 - Nov 13 with 991 views | Gwyn737 |
| Immigration. Labour seem more active than the Tories were. on 20:52 - Nov 13 by Boundy |
Gwyn if there is blame to be apportioned regarding the supposed failure of Brexit who in your opinion should that blame be given to, the people who voted for it, the politician who, on all sides , did everything they could to disrupt the process, the politicians who promised success or the EU for making it as difficult as they can to ensure it wouldn't work. |
That’s a big question as unfortunately there was hyperbole on both sides.
You had some remainers saying it would be the end of the world and leavers promising things that were never going to be reality.
I actually don’t blame the EU as as a bloc it was in its interest to make it difficult- that’s their job.
Remainers made a huge mistake dismissing reasonable fears of leavers as racist and/or thick which backfired spectacularly.
On the other hand, leavers now saying ‘this isn’t what we were promised’ I find frustrating as it was obvious IMO that there was going to be serious pain for quite some time - many of the benefits (if they come) were always going to be a long way down the road.
I supposed for me the most accountable ironically are the unaccountable online masters who monetised hate. | | | |
| Immigration. Labour seem more active than the Tories were. on 22:04 - Nov 13 with 965 views | majorraglan |
| Immigration. Labour seem more active than the Tories were. on 20:52 - Nov 13 by Boundy |
Gwyn if there is blame to be apportioned regarding the supposed failure of Brexit who in your opinion should that blame be given to, the people who voted for it, the politician who, on all sides , did everything they could to disrupt the process, the politicians who promised success or the EU for making it as difficult as they can to ensure it wouldn't work. |
I agree with most of Gwyn’s comments. In reality nobody really knew what Brexit would look like when we voted on it. I believe some of the more hardened ERG types deliberately kept it vague.
I think a lot of our politicians thought it would be easy to strike a deal, but that wasn’t the case and the EU drove a hard bargain. I don’t blame the EU, they held the cards, had to protect their markets and producers and put their own interests first just as our politicians did.
I think Boris could have done better. Sunak came in after Boris and had to renegotiate aspects of the contract original deal, Starmer has also renegotiated some of it to reduce the red tape I,parting business. | | | |
| Immigration. Labour seem more active than the Tories were. on 22:09 - Nov 13 with 961 views | JACKMANANDBOY |
In terms of trade and our economic position in the World order, the only real contextual data, only India has overtaken our overall economic position and our position in terms of trade remains unchanged. Improvements in services has covered a decline in goods.
Unfortunately, the war of words continues. [Post edited 13 Nov 22:19]
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| Immigration. Labour seem more active than the Tories were. on 08:39 - Nov 14 with 856 views | AnotherJohn |
| Immigration. Labour seem more active than the Tories were. on 22:04 - Nov 13 by majorraglan |
I agree with most of Gwyn’s comments. In reality nobody really knew what Brexit would look like when we voted on it. I believe some of the more hardened ERG types deliberately kept it vague.
I think a lot of our politicians thought it would be easy to strike a deal, but that wasn’t the case and the EU drove a hard bargain. I don’t blame the EU, they held the cards, had to protect their markets and producers and put their own interests first just as our politicians did.
I think Boris could have done better. Sunak came in after Boris and had to renegotiate aspects of the contract original deal, Starmer has also renegotiated some of it to reduce the red tape I,parting business. |
The only thing I would question about this is the idea that EU member states did what was best for them. The truth or falsity of that depends on how "put their own interests first" is defined. In fact, Germany and other members countries such as Belgium, the Netherlands, Sweden, Denmark and Spain suffered significant loses in trading volumes that could have been mitigated by a more balanced leaving agreement. That is on top of other negative Brexit effects on EU internal dynamics and the direction of economic policy.
https://www.ifo.de/en/publications/2022/monograph-authorship/economic-effects-br
https://www.eurointelligence.com/column/what-brexit-did-to-the-eu
I'd say that EU leaders decided that it was better to suffer some collateral damage than to see the UK in an improved position that might encourage other nations to leave. There was a determination to punish the UK, even if that led to some additional pain for the EU. This would continue to be a big problem if the UK should ever seek to rejoin. [Post edited 14 Nov 9:18]
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| Immigration. Labour seem more active than the Tories were. on 10:45 - Nov 14 with 799 views | Gwyn737 |
| Immigration. Labour seem more active than the Tories were. on 08:39 - Nov 14 by AnotherJohn |
The only thing I would question about this is the idea that EU member states did what was best for them. The truth or falsity of that depends on how "put their own interests first" is defined. In fact, Germany and other members countries such as Belgium, the Netherlands, Sweden, Denmark and Spain suffered significant loses in trading volumes that could have been mitigated by a more balanced leaving agreement. That is on top of other negative Brexit effects on EU internal dynamics and the direction of economic policy.
https://www.ifo.de/en/publications/2022/monograph-authorship/economic-effects-br
https://www.eurointelligence.com/column/what-brexit-did-to-the-eu
I'd say that EU leaders decided that it was better to suffer some collateral damage than to see the UK in an improved position that might encourage other nations to leave. There was a determination to punish the UK, even if that led to some additional pain for the EU. This would continue to be a big problem if the UK should ever seek to rejoin. [Post edited 14 Nov 9:18]
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Hard agree with that last paragraph.
One of the things that irks me is it was completely forseeable but buried under the we hold all the cards/oven ready deal/easiest deal ever rhetoric. | | | |
| Immigration. Labour seem more active than the Tories were. on 11:14 - Nov 14 with 787 views | Boundy |
| Immigration. Labour seem more active than the Tories were. on 21:46 - Nov 13 by Gwyn737 |
That’s a big question as unfortunately there was hyperbole on both sides.
You had some remainers saying it would be the end of the world and leavers promising things that were never going to be reality.
I actually don’t blame the EU as as a bloc it was in its interest to make it difficult- that’s their job.
Remainers made a huge mistake dismissing reasonable fears of leavers as racist and/or thick which backfired spectacularly.
On the other hand, leavers now saying ‘this isn’t what we were promised’ I find frustrating as it was obvious IMO that there was going to be serious pain for quite some time - many of the benefits (if they come) were always going to be a long way down the road.
I supposed for me the most accountable ironically are the unaccountable online masters who monetised hate. |
Thanks Gwyn, I have to agree , promises on both sides seem to have been broken and us the people have to suffer the fall out. The pain could have and should have been much reduced if we had the right politicians in position to ensure the best deals instead of too many who were half hearted at best and incompetent at worst. | |
| "In a free society, the State is the servant of the people—not the master." |
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| Immigration. Labour seem more active than the Tories were. on 11:56 - Nov 14 with 763 views | Joesus_Of_Narbereth |
| Immigration. Labour seem more active than the Tories were. on 20:25 - Nov 13 by Gwyn737 |
Yet exports of fish to the EU has dropped by about 30% since 2019. And there’s increased bureaucracy and delays. And any uplift in quotas has gone to the big corporations who’ve managed to find ways around issues.
Similar issues for farmers. They’ve lost their EU subsides but you only remembered to mention what went in. |
The cost inputs have gone through the roof in that time though due to issues not related to Brexit. Fuel, fertiliser, mooring costs have gone through the roof so productivity and profit margins have been squeezed massively. The big companies are still doing very well it’s the small businesses that have suffered and the government seem to want to hammer them at any given opportunity. | |
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| Immigration. Labour seem more active than the Tories were. on 12:39 - Nov 14 with 744 views | Gwyn737 |
| Immigration. Labour seem more active than the Tories were. on 11:56 - Nov 14 by Joesus_Of_Narbereth |
The cost inputs have gone through the roof in that time though due to issues not related to Brexit. Fuel, fertiliser, mooring costs have gone through the roof so productivity and profit margins have been squeezed massively. The big companies are still doing very well it’s the small businesses that have suffered and the government seem to want to hammer them at any given opportunity. |
Without the increased trade barriers and red tape, the decline in EU exports, issues with new quotas, and the associated labour shortages, the small fishermen would have a a degree of mitigation towards those things beyond our control.
I agree though that fishermen (and farmers) were shafted by the deal. Both industries on the whole are unhappy with what they've ended up with, despite some insisting that it's better for them. | | | |
| Immigration. Labour seem more active than the Tories were. on 15:26 - Nov 14 with 699 views | Joesus_Of_Narbereth |
| Immigration. Labour seem more active than the Tories were. on 12:39 - Nov 14 by Gwyn737 |
Without the increased trade barriers and red tape, the decline in EU exports, issues with new quotas, and the associated labour shortages, the small fishermen would have a a degree of mitigation towards those things beyond our control.
I agree though that fishermen (and farmers) were shafted by the deal. Both industries on the whole are unhappy with what they've ended up with, despite some insisting that it's better for them. |
Would the smaller businesses be trading that much with Europe anyway? Most of it would go to local markets I’d imagine. | |
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| Immigration. Labour seem more active than the Tories were. on 15:41 - Nov 14 with 681 views | Gwyn737 |
| Immigration. Labour seem more active than the Tories were. on 15:26 - Nov 14 by Joesus_Of_Narbereth |
Would the smaller businesses be trading that much with Europe anyway? Most of it would go to local markets I’d imagine. |
Prior to Brexit, the Welsh fishing fleet (mostly small boats) sent 90% of its catch to the EU. | | | |
| Immigration. Labour seem more active than the Tories were. on 18:38 - Nov 17 with 520 views | raynor94 |
Here we go again Labours proposal on tougher refugee rules are already being criticised by the left wing of the party so what chance of getting these reforms through
Labour are making sure they will never be trusted by the electorate again |  |
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| Immigration. Labour seem more active than the Tories were. on 19:18 - Nov 17 with 504 views | AnotherJohn |
| Immigration. Labour seem more active than the Tories were. on 18:38 - Nov 17 by raynor94 |
Here we go again Labours proposal on tougher refugee rules are already being criticised by the left wing of the party so what chance of getting these reforms through
Labour are making sure they will never be trusted by the electorate again |
They have had to include "safe and legal routes" as a sop to the Left, but even that is unlikely to stop the policy being watered down. | | | |
| Immigration. Labour seem more active than the Tories were. on 19:18 - Nov 17 with 504 views | max936 |
| Immigration. Labour seem more active than the Tories were. on 18:38 - Nov 17 by raynor94 |
Here we go again Labours proposal on tougher refugee rules are already being criticised by the left wing of the party so what chance of getting these reforms through
Labour are making sure they will never be trusted by the electorate again |
Plenty of left wingers in the Senedd. |  |
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| Immigration. Labour seem more active than the Tories were. on 21:41 - Nov 17 with 441 views | majorraglan |
| Immigration. Labour seem more active than the Tories were. on 18:38 - Nov 17 by raynor94 |
Here we go again Labours proposal on tougher refugee rules are already being criticised by the left wing of the party so what chance of getting these reforms through
Labour are making sure they will never be trusted by the electorate again |
At least they’re having a go. We’ve seen more from Labour action on this subject than we saw under the last government. The Conservatives could have scoped out the feasibility of introducing this kind of legislation but they didn’t. All we had was Rwanda and the potential for up to 1,000 returns over 4 years.
The spectrum of views in the Labour Party is quite wide as was the Conservative Party re Boris’s purge and a party will never keep everyone happy.
Starmer needs to grip the agitators on the left and tell them this is the main concern for a significant proportion of the UK’s electorate and that if Labour don’t deliver on this Reform will and his whinging MPs are likely to find themselves picking up a P45 at the next GE. It’s that simple. | | | |
| Immigration. Labour seem more active than the Tories were. on 21:51 - Nov 17 with 422 views | Dr_Winston |
It's all just theatre.
Mahmood is on record as voting against previous attempts at tightening up the system. That she's positioning herself now as some sort of "hard nut" is risible, especially considering the left of her own party will do their level best to water down these measures anyway.
This whole situation is a massive failure of the so called "Tories" in power between 2015 and 2024 (prior to that they had to contend with the Lib Dems).
The UK population has officially grown by nearly 8m since 2010, and I very much doubt if even half of those are working and contributing. Realistically those numbers are probably a lot higher. That puts pressure on everything. Healthcare. Services. Housing. Cultural cohesion.
Because of the inability of the mainstream parties to deal with this it's opened the doors to the extremists. |  |
| Pain or damage don't end the world. Or despair, or f*cking beatings. The world ends when you're dead. Until then, you got more punishment in store. Stand it like a man... and give some back. |
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| Immigration. Labour seem more active than the Tories were. on 00:06 - Nov 18 with 361 views | howenjack |
I was talking to a German fella in Broad St. Birmingham the day of Ozzys funeral parade through the streets. It was a table with a spare seat so I asked him if it was free and sat down . We got talking about the size of the crowds who had turned - out the pub was packed and after a while I asked him what he was doing in Brum [ obviously by this time discerning he was from Germany]
He told me he was employed by the British Govt. I asked him what his job was and he replied to analyse and research ways in which Britain could benefit from the European Union !
I responded that We had left the E. U 10 years ago. He assured me that despite that he and many others [fellow nationals and other europeans] were employed at no small cost
all over the country to further explore ways in which Britain could profit from The E.U.
I realized then my suspicions had been confirmed Britain has never really been allowed to leave. Brexit in its purest form has never been delivered to the masses . Starmer only recently having meetings with Van der Lyen leading to closer co operation and more billions of payments to an organisation that never publishes accounts
In short we have not been allowed to leave .
Are these "jobs" advertised in the national press ? Or online ? Or through a secret Govt. Cabal which puts the feelers out ?
The mind boggles. | | | |
| Immigration. Labour seem more active than the Tories were. on 01:38 - Nov 18 with 338 views | Robbie |
Maybe a Home Secertary with a decent plan to stop illegal immigrants draining UK funds .
Human Rights lawyer Sir Kier maybe is struggling to hold onto his very wobbly Throne and accepted his promised manifesto pledge , I will smash the small gangs asap .
The lefties and do gooders are already challenging a Goverment decision announcement .
Get this action through Parliament and maybe I will look at my voting choices as to the hot seat Starmer and his awful Cabinet have U turned more than a bendy bus on the Kingsway .
Senned Elections next May will be interesting for the Red Seats for now at least . | | | |
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