| Welsh Education Performance on 23:38 - Sep 10 with 1639 views | max936 |
| Welsh Education Performance on 09:30 - Sep 10 by union_jack |
So Welsh Labour doesn’t count as Welsh people running Wales? |
You couldn't make this crap up could you lets be fair, pity mun! [Post edited 15 Sep 20:01]
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| Welsh Education Performance on 23:56 - Sep 10 with 1636 views | max936 |
| Welsh Education Performance on 20:39 - Sep 10 by Dr_Winston |
The first and most vital thing any education system needs to accept is that some kids simply aren't academic.
There could be many reasons for that. They may be bright but find it hard to concentrate on purely intellectual matters. They may be practically minded instead of book focused. They may just be a bit thick. That's OK. Plenty of stupid people have gone on to lead rich and fulfilling lives. Some even make it into the Senedd.
We need to stop pretending that a one size fits all education system will work. Identify and move the brightest into classes, maybe even entire schools containing the best and smartest. Identify those who would benefit more from practical education. That's not necessarily the trade route. Just work out what they enjoy doing and build their education towards that.
There is going to be a massive shortage of skilled trades in this country in about 10-15 years time. We really need to start focusing on preventing it. [Post edited 10 Sep 20:53]
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"There is going to be a massive shortage of skilled trades in this country in about 10-15 years time. We really need to start focusing on preventing it."
Its worryingly short now, you got more people changing direction in their working careers and learning new skills than youngsters coming through sadly. | | | |
| Welsh Education Performance on 21:06 - Sep 11 with 1463 views | SullutaCreturned |
| Welsh Education Performance on 23:56 - Sep 10 by max936 |
"There is going to be a massive shortage of skilled trades in this country in about 10-15 years time. We really need to start focusing on preventing it."
Its worryingly short now, you got more people changing direction in their working careers and learning new skills than youngsters coming through sadly. |
I would say the shortage is massive now. My company cannot employ trades, they just struggle to find them, they've started doing more apprenticeships. That's what we need in schools for non academic kids, start apprenticeships whilst in school. Maybe some older, time served people would prefer to teach others for a reasonable salary than still be slogging away on the tools at 60 plus? |  | | |
| Welsh Education Performance on 19:28 - Sep 12 with 1318 views | jack_lord |
One of the crazy things about what people talk about education standards is that those who "fall short" are mainly more than capable in adult life and may go on to excel in chosen careers. Unfortunately the new model sees kids almost having to go to university just to get a job on minimum wage. The kids are constrained in an education system that doesn't suit them in an environment that doesn't support them and then end up with lower results because of a failing system that could be due to the curriculum or the teachers just aren't good enough. Then they end up with the lower results that everyone criticizes and ultimately in universities that just make up the numbers from graduate prospects.
2% of Welsh kids go to private school and 7% of English kids go to private school - does that affect the results? We live in Bishopston where the school has an excellent record but most kids have tuition after school because the standard isn't as good as people may think it is. All these things add up in the grand scheme of things.
This country has been robbed of it's language over years and I, like many have relatives who only spoke Welsh and I can not accept the language disappearing in spite of the above disparity in results. If there was no Welsh language our results would not be any different.
I understand that welsh speaking schools actually perform worse than their counterparts despite a higher socio economic group but then again, the teaching pool is a smaller group for these school.
Overall we have been performing poorly because it is Wales and we suffer because of that and not because we are inherently stupid |  |
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| Welsh Education Performance on 21:18 - Sep 12 with 1283 views | SullutaCreturned |
| Welsh Education Performance on 19:28 - Sep 12 by jack_lord |
One of the crazy things about what people talk about education standards is that those who "fall short" are mainly more than capable in adult life and may go on to excel in chosen careers. Unfortunately the new model sees kids almost having to go to university just to get a job on minimum wage. The kids are constrained in an education system that doesn't suit them in an environment that doesn't support them and then end up with lower results because of a failing system that could be due to the curriculum or the teachers just aren't good enough. Then they end up with the lower results that everyone criticizes and ultimately in universities that just make up the numbers from graduate prospects.
2% of Welsh kids go to private school and 7% of English kids go to private school - does that affect the results? We live in Bishopston where the school has an excellent record but most kids have tuition after school because the standard isn't as good as people may think it is. All these things add up in the grand scheme of things.
This country has been robbed of it's language over years and I, like many have relatives who only spoke Welsh and I can not accept the language disappearing in spite of the above disparity in results. If there was no Welsh language our results would not be any different.
I understand that welsh speaking schools actually perform worse than their counterparts despite a higher socio economic group but then again, the teaching pool is a smaller group for these school.
Overall we have been performing poorly because it is Wales and we suffer because of that and not because we are inherently stupid |
In which case stop worrying about teaching kids things they don't need and teach them what they do need.
I learned about oxbow lakes, Logarithms, the 3 field system and how relevant or useful was that to my life going forward?
Learning to budget or basic skills in mechanics or construction would have been much more useful.
I also wasn't allowed to learn Welsh in my first year in comp, I was allegedly clever and had to take Latin which was stopped a year later when I was too far behind to be allowed in Welsh classes.
We need to stop fooling around with the curriculum and get it right, finally. The last changes have made things worse and the polticians still seem to think getting kids into University is the best outcome but the none academic kids get left behind and even those good academically may fancy a different path. There is no one size fits all answer. | | | |
| Welsh Education Performance on 12:48 - Sep 13 with 1167 views | trampie |
The problem is in most cases the teachers are hopeless . |  |
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| Welsh Education Performance on 13:05 - Sep 13 with 1164 views | Whiterockin |
| Welsh Education Performance on 12:48 - Sep 13 by trampie |
The problem is in most cases the teachers are hopeless . |
I will leave that to you Gwyn, personally I don't think a stupid post like that deserves a response. To me it smacks as a response by someone uneducated, regretting it and blaming everyone except for themselves. [Post edited 13 Sep 13:06]
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| Welsh Education Performance on 10:56 - Sep 14 with 1034 views | ReslovenSwan1 |
| Welsh Education Performance on 13:05 - Sep 13 by Whiterockin |
I will leave that to you Gwyn, personally I don't think a stupid post like that deserves a response. To me it smacks as a response by someone uneducated, regretting it and blaming everyone except for themselves. [Post edited 13 Sep 13:06]
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Wales has been bottom of the pile for decades and it is cultural. A lack of self respect and dependency thinking.
Blame the Government bane the teachers blame the parents.
Welsh people need a reset. More self respect more national pride more fight
Sadly our brightest and best migrate. It is not easy. Before we could blame England. Now it is down to us. No one else to blame. We are on our own and must improve.
Running to Mama in London will fix nothing. It has to be Welsh self driven.
I recall David Cameron mentioning the " sharp elbowed mothers of Surrey " demanding improvements.. |  |
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| Welsh Education Performance on 11:13 - Sep 14 with 1010 views | Whiterockin |
| Welsh Education Performance on 10:56 - Sep 14 by ReslovenSwan1 |
Wales has been bottom of the pile for decades and it is cultural. A lack of self respect and dependency thinking.
Blame the Government bane the teachers blame the parents.
Welsh people need a reset. More self respect more national pride more fight
Sadly our brightest and best migrate. It is not easy. Before we could blame England. Now it is down to us. No one else to blame. We are on our own and must improve.
Running to Mama in London will fix nothing. It has to be Welsh self driven.
I recall David Cameron mentioning the " sharp elbowed mothers of Surrey " demanding improvements.. |
Do they migrate before they take examinations affecting the Welsh Education Results, the topic of this thread. | | | |
| Welsh Education Performance on 19:15 - Sep 15 with 881 views | ReslovenSwan1 |
| Welsh Education Performance on 11:13 - Sep 14 by Whiterockin |
Do they migrate before they take examinations affecting the Welsh Education Results, the topic of this thread. |
It is not removing the best potential students. It is removing the best most driven parents. This is not excuse. The Senedd and Teacher Unions must improve. | |
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| Welsh Education Performance on 19:40 - Sep 15 with 876 views | Whiterockin |
| Welsh Education Performance on 19:15 - Sep 15 by ReslovenSwan1 |
It is not removing the best potential students. It is removing the best most driven parents. This is not excuse. The Senedd and Teacher Unions must improve. |
At last you are accepting it is down to failure by the Senedd absolutely nothing to do with teachers unions. Teachers in Wales are regulated, overseen, and managed through a combination of the Welsh Government, the Education Workforce Council (EWC), local authorities, and individual school governing bodies. [Post edited 15 Sep 20:24]
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| Welsh Education Performance on 20:16 - Sep 15 with 854 views | max936 |
| Welsh Education Performance on 21:06 - Sep 11 by SullutaCreturned |
I would say the shortage is massive now. My company cannot employ trades, they just struggle to find them, they've started doing more apprenticeships. That's what we need in schools for non academic kids, start apprenticeships whilst in school. Maybe some older, time served people would prefer to teach others for a reasonable salary than still be slogging away on the tools at 60 plus? |
I'm 65 and still on the tools most of the time, I'm not practising my trade as such as I've somewhat diversified away from most of it.
To be honest its starting to get harder, but its the wage that it brings that is keeping me going, had the chance to come off the tools, but I had a taste of the alternative a few times and that can be harder to be able to mentally switch off and it makes me irritable. | | | |
| Welsh Education Performance on 20:22 - Sep 15 with 844 views | max936 |
| Welsh Education Performance on 19:28 - Sep 12 by jack_lord |
One of the crazy things about what people talk about education standards is that those who "fall short" are mainly more than capable in adult life and may go on to excel in chosen careers. Unfortunately the new model sees kids almost having to go to university just to get a job on minimum wage. The kids are constrained in an education system that doesn't suit them in an environment that doesn't support them and then end up with lower results because of a failing system that could be due to the curriculum or the teachers just aren't good enough. Then they end up with the lower results that everyone criticizes and ultimately in universities that just make up the numbers from graduate prospects.
2% of Welsh kids go to private school and 7% of English kids go to private school - does that affect the results? We live in Bishopston where the school has an excellent record but most kids have tuition after school because the standard isn't as good as people may think it is. All these things add up in the grand scheme of things.
This country has been robbed of it's language over years and I, like many have relatives who only spoke Welsh and I can not accept the language disappearing in spite of the above disparity in results. If there was no Welsh language our results would not be any different.
I understand that welsh speaking schools actually perform worse than their counterparts despite a higher socio economic group but then again, the teaching pool is a smaller group for these school.
Overall we have been performing poorly because it is Wales and we suffer because of that and not because we are inherently stupid |
We are really proud of our eldest, he was born with nerve damage to his ear's and has had earing aids since he was 4, but did fantastic at school studied and worked hard and got his degrees, he spent nearly 4yrs up near London then got asked to work at government offices in Cardiff been there now since 2021, he's still studying at 33. | | | |
| Welsh Education Performance on 20:23 - Sep 15 with 842 views | max936 |
| Welsh Education Performance on 21:18 - Sep 12 by SullutaCreturned |
In which case stop worrying about teaching kids things they don't need and teach them what they do need.
I learned about oxbow lakes, Logarithms, the 3 field system and how relevant or useful was that to my life going forward?
Learning to budget or basic skills in mechanics or construction would have been much more useful.
I also wasn't allowed to learn Welsh in my first year in comp, I was allegedly clever and had to take Latin which was stopped a year later when I was too far behind to be allowed in Welsh classes.
We need to stop fooling around with the curriculum and get it right, finally. The last changes have made things worse and the polticians still seem to think getting kids into University is the best outcome but the none academic kids get left behind and even those good academically may fancy a different path. There is no one size fits all answer. |
Great post. | | | |
| Welsh Education Performance on 20:30 - Sep 15 with 832 views | Gwyn737 |
| Welsh Education Performance on 13:05 - Sep 13 by Whiterockin |
I will leave that to you Gwyn, personally I don't think a stupid post like that deserves a response. To me it smacks as a response by someone uneducated, regretting it and blaming everyone except for themselves. [Post edited 13 Sep 13:06]
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I avoid using the ignore button as it can make following threads tricky.
I don’t respond to that particular poster, though. | | | |
| Welsh Education Performance on 20:40 - Sep 15 with 825 views | Gwyn737 |
| Welsh Education Performance on 20:18 - Sep 10 by Gwyn737 |
The only thing there I’ll push back on is that actually, Plaid have made some initial sensible suggestions for change.
As I said earlier, they have an opportunity to make some quick improvements if they’re brave enough to do so. |
This is an excellent start and represents a real change in direction:
https://www.gov.wales/sites/de | | | |
| Welsh Education Performance on 22:19 - Sep 15 with 797 views | trampie |
Lots of teachers are only in it for the pay check, they don't care about the pupils, in a lot of cases they don't seem to be able to identify students who would benefit from extra attention to get them to reach their full potential. [Post edited 15 Sep 22:23]
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| Welsh Education Performance on 22:37 - Sep 15 with 783 views | trampie |
| Welsh Education Performance on 20:30 - Sep 15 by Gwyn737 |
I avoid using the ignore button as it can make following threads tricky.
I don’t respond to that particular poster, though. |
Just because I've been critical of teaching unions threatening to strike, describing it as blackmail by threatening to damage children's education in the pursuit of getting even more money.
You are doing your profession no good by not engaging with a concerned taxpayer. | |
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| Welsh Education Performance on 09:30 - Sep 16 with 708 views | Whiterockin |
"We recognise, however, that standards of literacy and numeracy are not where we
want them to be. Welsh learners are on average performing significantly below those
in other comparable countries according to the Programme for International Student
Assessment (PISA), and we cannot – and will not – carry on as we are.
Let us be clear, this is not the fault of schools or teachers. We have inherited an
education system that lacks clarity, coherence and a sure sense of direction. A
sustained period of reform has taken its toll, and literacy and numeracy have been
lost in the noise. Schools are also facing the pressures we see across wider society.
Families are struggling with the cost of living, and more children are facing issues
with their mental and emotional wellbeing. This is all increasing the challenges
schools manage on a daily basis."
In my mind this is a veiled criticism of the way the Senedd has dealt with education and lays the issues firmly at their door. | | | |
| Welsh Education Performance on 09:32 - Sep 16 with 705 views | onehunglow |
| Welsh Education Performance on 20:23 - Sep 15 by max936 |
Great post. |
Though logarithms are handy , if you’re building a bridge or two
Oxbow lakes ?
Yikes | |
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| Welsh Education Performance on 12:04 - Sep 16 with 680 views | Gwyn737 |
| Welsh Education Performance on 09:30 - Sep 16 by Whiterockin |
"We recognise, however, that standards of literacy and numeracy are not where we
want them to be. Welsh learners are on average performing significantly below those
in other comparable countries according to the Programme for International Student
Assessment (PISA), and we cannot – and will not – carry on as we are.
Let us be clear, this is not the fault of schools or teachers. We have inherited an
education system that lacks clarity, coherence and a sure sense of direction. A
sustained period of reform has taken its toll, and literacy and numeracy have been
lost in the noise. Schools are also facing the pressures we see across wider society.
Families are struggling with the cost of living, and more children are facing issues
with their mental and emotional wellbeing. This is all increasing the challenges
schools manage on a daily basis."
In my mind this is a veiled criticism of the way the Senedd has dealt with education and lays the issues firmly at their door. |
I'm not sure it's that veiled, WR.
They're quite correct to do so too. | | | |
| Welsh Education Performance on 12:08 - Sep 16 with 679 views | Whiterockin |
| Welsh Education Performance on 12:04 - Sep 16 by Gwyn737 |
I'm not sure it's that veiled, WR.
They're quite correct to do so too. |
Are Plaid actually criticising themselves because they supported Labour and kept them in power. | | | |
| Welsh Education Performance on 14:02 - Sep 16 with 653 views | Gwyn737 |
| Welsh Education Performance on 12:08 - Sep 16 by Whiterockin |
Are Plaid actually criticising themselves because they supported Labour and kept them in power. |
They've got a bit of a cop out I reckon in this area as I'm not sure they specifically supported the education policy.
Might be wrong on this though. | | | |
| Welsh Education Performance on 15:45 - Sep 16 with 642 views | jack_lord |
| Welsh Education Performance on 20:22 - Sep 15 by max936 |
We are really proud of our eldest, he was born with nerve damage to his ear's and has had earing aids since he was 4, but did fantastic at school studied and worked hard and got his degrees, he spent nearly 4yrs up near London then got asked to work at government offices in Cardiff been there now since 2021, he's still studying at 33. |
In the face of adversity, some break the mold. They refuse to be shaped by hardship, using the pressure to redefine what is possible.
You can be rightly proud of your boy and he should be of you too Steve | |
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