| WLS podcast 15:31 - Oct 2 with 8840 views | nick_hammersmith |
Just watched the new Podcast from Dave Mac and Kevin Gallen.
Interesting one this week, where they had Ben Jacobs on, who runs the twitter account for the DS squad.
I knocked Ben on here before for his hyperbole over Kolli. Didn't realise how young he actually was and feel bad now.
Some good back and forth on the pod though, although I'm not sure the divide is just generational. I'm Kev's age and can see past his rose tinted glasses, I don't remember much development after Richard Langley to be fair, but I'd say a lot of that was done to investment in the other local teams, like Chelsea and even Brentford, where the academy setup was ahead of the Concorde club (as it was then).
I think the key thing they missed though, when they were talking about the previous regime not using players like Harry Murphy in the first team was to look at the pathway in front of them. I've only watched a efw of the DS games, like the Brentford final and he did look tidy, but he was playing in an area (midget 10) where QPR have not been short in for years. So, I didn't see the path into our squad.
I'm thinking his size probably stopped a NL or L2 club taking him as well, as Men's football might have swallowed him up.
Anyway, I can recommend for anyone is bored during this international break, although fair warning, Ben can sound a bit "High performance", just like Christian Nourry, if that kind of thing triggers you... |  | | |  |
| WLS podcast on 12:14 - Oct 5 with 1162 views | francisbowles |
| WLS podcast on 21:22 - Oct 2 by 1JD |
Harry Murphy was tiny, and if you are tiny, you have to be exceptional. He was not. I watched Murphy play repeatedly and he never impressed me. Didn’t have a position, the biggest issue. Not a 10 and not an 8. Too Powerpuff. But scored some goals.
If you had a penny for this type of player, you’d be a rich man. The game is littered with them at youth team level.
Most watchers of youth team football are not wearing a scouting hat, and/or understanding what it takes to make it at championship level. And go all hot and heavy.
They massively overestimate what is required to make it at this level.
Keen football analysts who understand levels, know that those that will/do make it (Kolli, Eze, Chair) stand out like a sore thumb.
If they don’t hit that bar, simple rule of thumb is, they’ll never make it at this level. And for all the nonsense around “we found them another club”, the first team at QPR is all that matters. [Post edited 2 Oct 21:24]
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'for all the nonsense around “we found them another club”, the first team at QPR is all that matters.'
That might be true for you and me but it's important for the young footballer and his family to know, that if it doesn't work out, there is some help available with his career path.
It's also extremely important for the club, when trying to convince prospects and their guardians to pick QPR over other offers, that they will be looked after here, whether or not they get a professional contract. |  | | |
| WLS podcast on 12:20 - Oct 5 with 1128 views | Stainrod |
| WLS podcast on 12:27 - Oct 3 by Northernr |
Well I've just had a very pleasant hour or so pottering around the garden with the three of them in my ears and I couldn't believe it finished when it did because I was waiting all the way through for this supposed grilling of poor Ben to begin and it never materialised. I thought it was a very mature, adult conversation with different views expressed respectfully, some minds changed on some points, and some points of agreement.
Unfortunately, and I've experienced this myself and seen it first hand at recent supporter group/sites meetings with the club, anybody who dares to deviate from the line that everything in the QPR garden is rosy and the sun is shining and the grass is green (except when the pitch dies obviously), even if it's just to the extent of asking questions, can expect to be set upon in that manner by accounts like that, particularly on Twitter. Independent comment, coverage and journalism of the club is not welcomed by some and you see people like Dave, Ian Mc, sites like this one or things like Finney's podcast outright attacked. It's a really insidious part of supporting/following/covering QPR online at the moment and has left me feeling very cold about the club and my job running this site.
I think Ben said it brilliantly himself at the end of the podcast - this weird generational divide that seems to exist in at least our online support atm would be a lot less pronounced if a lot more conversations like this were happening. I didn't agree with a lot of what he said but he spoke well, expressed his views thoughtfully, and it led to a great discussion. I thought it was a really interesting hour of radio that I'll be thinking about a lot over the coming days.
More like this please. |
The vitriol, extreme opinions and over-simplification are a much bigger problem than QPR, of course. Am sure every club has similar issues, and it goes way beyond football. But agree, it's a massive turn-off and just plain unpleasant for those of us who tend to view things in shades of grey, and still believe in friendly debate.
It''s often rage-bating and I avoid X accordingly, but there is little escape from the madness. I found myself fuming at a Tucker Carson podcast at the weekend when he basically said we should have let Hitler get on with it - before I reminded myself that enraging swathes of the population is precisely his goal. And social media is bursting with such characters.
Re whether the academy is now delivering: surely the problem in judging is that unlike a first team manager whose reputation rests on his last five games these days, any good work (or indeed bad work) takes years to assess at youth level? By which point key coaches could have moved on etc.
I have no inside knowledge on Paul Furlong and for all I know he was working miracles with tiny resource and maybe his departure was handled appallingly. But he was apparently part of the club's coaching set up for 14 years. If you believe that the youth set up has underachieved over a long period, perhaps change was needed? I am not claiming this is the case with you - as I say, I don't know enough about his circumstances - but as a fanbase we can sometimes judge former players more softly than we do others. | | | |
| WLS podcast on 12:42 - Oct 5 with 1038 views | Northernr |
| WLS podcast on 12:20 - Oct 5 by Stainrod |
The vitriol, extreme opinions and over-simplification are a much bigger problem than QPR, of course. Am sure every club has similar issues, and it goes way beyond football. But agree, it's a massive turn-off and just plain unpleasant for those of us who tend to view things in shades of grey, and still believe in friendly debate.
It''s often rage-bating and I avoid X accordingly, but there is little escape from the madness. I found myself fuming at a Tucker Carson podcast at the weekend when he basically said we should have let Hitler get on with it - before I reminded myself that enraging swathes of the population is precisely his goal. And social media is bursting with such characters.
Re whether the academy is now delivering: surely the problem in judging is that unlike a first team manager whose reputation rests on his last five games these days, any good work (or indeed bad work) takes years to assess at youth level? By which point key coaches could have moved on etc.
I have no inside knowledge on Paul Furlong and for all I know he was working miracles with tiny resource and maybe his departure was handled appallingly. But he was apparently part of the club's coaching set up for 14 years. If you believe that the youth set up has underachieved over a long period, perhaps change was needed? I am not claiming this is the case with you - as I say, I don't know enough about his circumstances - but as a fanbase we can sometimes judge former players more softly than we do others. |
Totally fair points, and I think there were people working in our academy who’d got a bit comfy and it was time for a change but with somebody like that with his history at the club there is a way to go about handling a departure like his and that wasn’t it, in my opinion. |  | | |
| WLS podcast on 13:26 - Oct 5 with 949 views | Hunterhoop |
| WLS podcast on 12:42 - Oct 5 by Northernr |
Totally fair points, and I think there were people working in our academy who’d got a bit comfy and it was time for a change but with somebody like that with his history at the club there is a way to go about handling a departure like his and that wasn’t it, in my opinion. |
Indeed.
And perhaps sums up the divide in a nutshell.
There is the “what” and the “how”.
The “what” has been mixed but improving and largely positive, I would say, except for the injuries/fitness/conditioning side of things under the leadership.
The “how” (especially for those who have perhaps (un)fortunately heard more than others) has been pretty awful the whole time under this leadership. Perhaps showing signs of improvement with the last Fans Forum, tbf.
And everyone places different emphasis on the “what” and the “how”. No one is right. It’s all perspectives and opinions. It’s fine to not care about the “how” at all, and it’s fine to care deeply about it too. No one should be getting abused on social media for caring about the club. That often has to take the form of questioning and critique because that is how you keep leaders honest and hold them to account ensuring the best for the club in the long term. But, if it’s not up your street, ignore it.
Where I struggle is that our CEO set up an advisory business focusing on 16-24 yr olds and social media. If you’d think anyone was able to influence the online fanbase via social media to create unity, repair divisions, and embed a strong distaste for abuse, it should be him. The club know about the online abuse very much so too. |  | | |
| WLS podcast on 14:10 - Oct 5 with 860 views | Stainrod |
| WLS podcast on 13:26 - Oct 5 by Hunterhoop |
Indeed.
And perhaps sums up the divide in a nutshell.
There is the “what” and the “how”.
The “what” has been mixed but improving and largely positive, I would say, except for the injuries/fitness/conditioning side of things under the leadership.
The “how” (especially for those who have perhaps (un)fortunately heard more than others) has been pretty awful the whole time under this leadership. Perhaps showing signs of improvement with the last Fans Forum, tbf.
And everyone places different emphasis on the “what” and the “how”. No one is right. It’s all perspectives and opinions. It’s fine to not care about the “how” at all, and it’s fine to care deeply about it too. No one should be getting abused on social media for caring about the club. That often has to take the form of questioning and critique because that is how you keep leaders honest and hold them to account ensuring the best for the club in the long term. But, if it’s not up your street, ignore it.
Where I struggle is that our CEO set up an advisory business focusing on 16-24 yr olds and social media. If you’d think anyone was able to influence the online fanbase via social media to create unity, repair divisions, and embed a strong distaste for abuse, it should be him. The club know about the online abuse very much so too. |
Interesting debate.
I care more about results but also agree the club - like any business, and any individual - should try to do things the right way too, wherever possible.
Perhaps then the question about Furlong was not about his sacking, but how it was done. If it was done without proper acknowledgement or gratitude for his years of service then indeed that would be shabby.
Although we have disagreed in the past on Nourry's performance I have also conceded that up until the recent fans forum his manner could, at times, be unfortunate (the previous fans forum being a case in point).
I know there have been claims of Nourry using a PR to post positive things about him and also that there can be an unpleasant rancour sometimes around QPR debates.
But it is not all down to Nourry.
I suspect even someone as self-confident as our CEO would consider it beyond him to get QPR cyber-warriors to rein it in. We have a very diverse fanbase (in terms of attitudes, age and background, less so ethnically for example). I think the anger from different types of fans to each other is sadly, as I suggested above, a symptom of a much bigger social problem. There might be young men (and it is mainly men) who think the academy is wonderful and will soon be producing the next Jude Bellingham. We need that belief among younger fans (tho' no excuse for the abuse apparently directed at Kevin or Dave). Of course older fans who have lived through countless false dawns will be more jaded. For balance, over the years I have also witnessed plenty of older fans in the ground behaving abusively or in a way that doesn't exactly leave you bursting with pride about the club.
I think many of us are actually in broad agreement about the youth set up: plenty of encouraging signs pointing to improvement down the line, but with a huge amount to prove over the coming years.
Alas the kind of balanced debate we have seen on this thread wouldn't get many re-tweets on X. | | | |
| WLS podcast on 15:05 - Oct 6 with 413 views | TK1 |
'Elite' Academy status latest...1-5 defeat to Coventry City.
Should remember that six years ago Coventry were playing at St Andrews and recently promoted from L1. Just for perspective. They don't appear to have any social media coverage of their youth teams, so we've got that on them. | | | |
| WLS podcast on 18:52 - Oct 6 with 225 views | numptydumpty |
| WLS podcast on 14:10 - Oct 5 by Stainrod |
Interesting debate.
I care more about results but also agree the club - like any business, and any individual - should try to do things the right way too, wherever possible.
Perhaps then the question about Furlong was not about his sacking, but how it was done. If it was done without proper acknowledgement or gratitude for his years of service then indeed that would be shabby.
Although we have disagreed in the past on Nourry's performance I have also conceded that up until the recent fans forum his manner could, at times, be unfortunate (the previous fans forum being a case in point).
I know there have been claims of Nourry using a PR to post positive things about him and also that there can be an unpleasant rancour sometimes around QPR debates.
But it is not all down to Nourry.
I suspect even someone as self-confident as our CEO would consider it beyond him to get QPR cyber-warriors to rein it in. We have a very diverse fanbase (in terms of attitudes, age and background, less so ethnically for example). I think the anger from different types of fans to each other is sadly, as I suggested above, a symptom of a much bigger social problem. There might be young men (and it is mainly men) who think the academy is wonderful and will soon be producing the next Jude Bellingham. We need that belief among younger fans (tho' no excuse for the abuse apparently directed at Kevin or Dave). Of course older fans who have lived through countless false dawns will be more jaded. For balance, over the years I have also witnessed plenty of older fans in the ground behaving abusively or in a way that doesn't exactly leave you bursting with pride about the club.
I think many of us are actually in broad agreement about the youth set up: plenty of encouraging signs pointing to improvement down the line, but with a huge amount to prove over the coming years.
Alas the kind of balanced debate we have seen on this thread wouldn't get many re-tweets on X. |
I think the point that Ben made that Kev and Dave did not quite acknowledge was that the operation of the youth system within our club is vastly different in its scope etc to how things were done years ago.
In the 90s, most players were British or Irish and especially at youth level.Clubs now who all with so much data analysis spread their recruitment process world wide. In the days of the 90s and before it was pre internet and prior to mass multi culturism around the world.
In the present day we have taken on board Australians, Brazilians, Africans, Eastern Europeans, players from the Far East and from the United States as well.
Previously all clubs had their scouts check out the local talent wherever they lived, and that was the full extent of the net to catch the potential golden boys. No filmed video footage of players either, like today.
And it that sense, it is very different.
But with balance, of course Kev has a completely valid reasons for saying how he feels as a man thats seen it done it got the t shirt. And i do agree with him and Ben admitted it as fact that the youth system is in its infancy under this regime and currently, there is no massive gulf between how many more youth players have broken through, not many have, as yet.
i am intrigued by this different approach and am hopeful, without lauding all and sundry with elevation to top level elite.
We are in the early days of this system. Two more seasons down the line, we will have a better idea as to whether we are onto something or there is a lot of bluff and bluster without a great deal really being achieved.
One thing i would say to some though, who think the throwing in of younger players at the higher levels is IMO not helpful. Ben mentioned the Plymouth cup game. The two 15 year olds getting minutes, wont make an iota of difference in their development of their future career. And with some like for instance Tylon Smith came on twice, not in his centre back role but at right back and gave away penalties. For me that is not helpful for a young player. Dont give minutes for the sake of it.
Put them on absolutely when they are of a standard to contribute to a game but hanging young kids out to dry in public, sometimes clearly years before they are ready, for me is a showy way of saying "we are giving kids opportunities" More than likely, it could do damage.
But I tend to agree with Dave and Kev that nothing great has been achieved as yet, but also I am satisfied that the powers that be are trying rheir own new ways of training and support of players too and more detail about all aspects of being a professional footballer, along with specialists in different facets fo the game too.
At the moment its like celebrating getting to round three of the cup, believing we are destined to win the whole bl**dy thing. Sadly we have not done that as yet.
We will see where this leads us....
[Post edited 6 Oct 19:01]
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