By continuing to use the site, you agree to our use of cookies and to abide by our Terms and Conditions. We in turn value your personal details in accordance with our Privacy Policy.
Please log in or register. Registered visitors get fewer ads.
Don’t know how young our academy system goes but cannot think of a single reason why we’d take any kids in below the age of 15, maybe 14 max. There’s little or no chance of a Sterling situation now, given the rules.
Eze sets the bar on this, pick up the discarded when they’re borderline adults.
0
Few home truths from Chris Ramsay on 11:42 - Aug 19 with 4175 views
Very good interview. I guess the other problem with developing from a very young age is that it’s harder to keep hold of them if cat 1 clubs come knocking. So it makes sense to have the bulk of our academy recruitment from the ages of 15-20 say.
What exactly is meant by the B team model? What Brentford are doing? Is anyone else doing it? Or is it a one-off if it involves arranging games with random European clubs as Brentford do, and wouldn't work if everyone else was doing it? And is that why Ramsey says it's not cheap?
Good stuff from Ramsey, as usual. Logical, aware, reasoned. Shows the club are able to self analyse and adapt not stubborn and wedded to one approach. There are way more adults running this club than there used to be, which can only be a positive. I would love this Les, Ramsey, Hall, Furlong, Impey network to be here and take credit for us getting promoted a some point. Yes, whoever the manager is, will deserve huge individual credit, and no doubt get it, but these are the guys who have laid the foundations on the playing side, put in the hard yards that pay dividends 3-5 years later. That’s how you build a club back up.
9
Few home truths from Chris Ramsay on 19:50 - Aug 19 with 3325 views
Few home truths from Chris Ramsay on 19:41 - Aug 19 by Hunterhoop
Good stuff from Ramsey, as usual. Logical, aware, reasoned. Shows the club are able to self analyse and adapt not stubborn and wedded to one approach. There are way more adults running this club than there used to be, which can only be a positive. I would love this Les, Ramsey, Hall, Furlong, Impey network to be here and take credit for us getting promoted a some point. Yes, whoever the manager is, will deserve huge individual credit, and no doubt get it, but these are the guys who have laid the foundations on the playing side, put in the hard yards that pay dividends 3-5 years later. That’s how you build a club back up.
I agree. I'd be far more upset about losing these guys to a Premier club than any individual player. Hopefully they're too invested in seeing their project through for that. Ramsey really comes across well in all his interviews. It's such a shame he received such abuse as manager. It seems like his current role suits him much better though and he's a real asset.
3
Few home truths from Chris Ramsay on 19:59 - Aug 19 with 3289 views
Few home truths from Chris Ramsay on 19:41 - Aug 19 by Hunterhoop
Good stuff from Ramsey, as usual. Logical, aware, reasoned. Shows the club are able to self analyse and adapt not stubborn and wedded to one approach. There are way more adults running this club than there used to be, which can only be a positive. I would love this Les, Ramsey, Hall, Furlong, Impey network to be here and take credit for us getting promoted a some point. Yes, whoever the manager is, will deserve huge individual credit, and no doubt get it, but these are the guys who have laid the foundations on the playing side, put in the hard yards that pay dividends 3-5 years later. That’s how you build a club back up.
Absolutely, all those years suffering idiots like Phil Beard & Co, credit that we've put the right people in the right positions, and even in cases like this, the best men for the job.
One part of the article that wasn't elaborated on is the B team system not being right for us. Ramsey said it can be quite expensive but didn't seem to elaborate how or why. If we're looking at the 'older' players rather than pre-teen, etc, then doesn't that better suit a 'B team' that's 16 or 18+ to feed into the first team?
ask Beavis I get nothing Butthead
0
Few home truths from Chris Ramsay on 21:36 - Aug 19 with 3054 views
Few home truths from Chris Ramsay on 19:59 - Aug 19 by simmo
Absolutely, all those years suffering idiots like Phil Beard & Co, credit that we've put the right people in the right positions, and even in cases like this, the best men for the job.
One part of the article that wasn't elaborated on is the B team system not being right for us. Ramsey said it can be quite expensive but didn't seem to elaborate how or why. If we're looking at the 'older' players rather than pre-teen, etc, then doesn't that better suit a 'B team' that's 16 or 18+ to feed into the first team?
He did say that a lot of B players in that model are bought for big money. This is in contrast to our players who are picked up for free.
Plus, i'd imagine that the admin costs of playing so many games abroad must be massive.
"The opposite of love, after all, is not hate, but indifference."
Few home truths from Chris Ramsay on 19:33 - Aug 19 by TacticalR
What exactly is meant by the B team model? What Brentford are doing? Is anyone else doing it? Or is it a one-off if it involves arranging games with random European clubs as Brentford do, and wouldn't work if everyone else was doing it? And is that why Ramsey says it's not cheap?
The main issue with the B team model was the cost as most of the recruitments cost money.
0
Few home truths from Chris Ramsay on 21:48 - Aug 19 with 3012 views
Few home truths from Chris Ramsay on 19:33 - Aug 19 by TacticalR
What exactly is meant by the B team model? What Brentford are doing? Is anyone else doing it? Or is it a one-off if it involves arranging games with random European clubs as Brentford do, and wouldn't work if everyone else was doing it? And is that why Ramsey says it's not cheap?
I would love it if someone could explain this, as well. What is a B team? What exactly, is an Academy? What happened to the Reserve teams, who used to play each in the South-East Counties league, or similar? Is there a Dummies guide to how modern pro football teams operate?
1
Few home truths from Chris Ramsay on 21:52 - Aug 19 with 2991 views
Few home truths from Chris Ramsay on 21:48 - Aug 19 by GloryHunter
I would love it if someone could explain this, as well. What is a B team? What exactly, is an Academy? What happened to the Reserve teams, who used to play each in the South-East Counties league, or similar? Is there a Dummies guide to how modern pro football teams operate?
B team is a fancy word for the stiffs.
Most clubs don't have a stiffs team now. They have an U-23 team.
"The opposite of love, after all, is not hate, but indifference."
Very good point about the Academy, it gives a club identity in the area, although less local players may make the breakthrough there's still that thing about the club having that progression and connection. I'd imagine we need a sale like Darnell now and again to keep it financially even as a project though? I'm not from the area but if Brentford, Chelsea and QPR are compared locally for engagement at grassroots I'd imagine we must be well considered if Chelsea are the 4rseholes, Brentford buy players for their B squad and we have u8s through to u23s of mostly local talent hoping to make the breakthrough? I'd imagine Fulham similar to us. It's interesting as Brentford model is working well atm but as we know it takes one small moment in time, and a couple of missed opportunities, to find yourself on the downward spiral. Will they regret losing that local connection? It will play out over time and I would think CR etc are the architects of our return and potential for competing with Fulham and Brentford for league position within a reasonable timeframe. Hopefully they feel valued as a group at the club, so want to see the job as a long term project that's basically unending, and that they are equally held on as an important footing as those working with the first team squad. Supposedly the reason Holland produces so many good players is that the youth development coaches are as well thought of as any coach through a club.
2
Few home truths from Chris Ramsay on 23:06 - Aug 19 with 2822 views
Excellent interview Love the term 'microwave' as opposed to 'fast-track'. Such an intelligent character, we are very lucky to have him. There is fantastic work going on behind the scenes and hopefully they will stick around long enough to reap the benefits
1
Few home truths from Chris Ramsay on 00:17 - Aug 20 with 2724 views
Few home truths from Chris Ramsay on 22:49 - Aug 19 by karl
Very good point about the Academy, it gives a club identity in the area, although less local players may make the breakthrough there's still that thing about the club having that progression and connection. I'd imagine we need a sale like Darnell now and again to keep it financially even as a project though? I'm not from the area but if Brentford, Chelsea and QPR are compared locally for engagement at grassroots I'd imagine we must be well considered if Chelsea are the 4rseholes, Brentford buy players for their B squad and we have u8s through to u23s of mostly local talent hoping to make the breakthrough? I'd imagine Fulham similar to us. It's interesting as Brentford model is working well atm but as we know it takes one small moment in time, and a couple of missed opportunities, to find yourself on the downward spiral. Will they regret losing that local connection? It will play out over time and I would think CR etc are the architects of our return and potential for competing with Fulham and Brentford for league position within a reasonable timeframe. Hopefully they feel valued as a group at the club, so want to see the job as a long term project that's basically unending, and that they are equally held on as an important footing as those working with the first team squad. Supposedly the reason Holland produces so many good players is that the youth development coaches are as well thought of as any coach through a club.
"I'm not from the area but if Brentford, Chelsea and QPR are compared locally for engagement at grassroots I'd imagine we must be well considered if Chelsea are the 4rseholes, Brentford buy players for their B squad and we have u8s through to u23s of mostly local talent hoping to make the breakthrough?"
I'm not sure I agree with that assessment. It's fashionable to deride Chelsea's youth set-up, but professionals within the game all agree that the training and development they get at SB is just about the best in the English game. Their problem was that no matter how talented, they couldn't make the breakthough to the senior team because successive managers simply signed ready-made players from elsewhere at or approaching their peak for huge sums.
But I deliberately say "was", because that is changing under Fat Frank and the transfer embargo, and we're now seeing the worth of their youth system.
As for BFC, when the Academy system was brought in, we spent big money on building a 2nd level Academy (one of only 2 in Lge One I think, and higher than some in the Championship) and were enthusiastic about the whole system.
Then in return for bunging the EFL a few quid, the PL shifted the goalposts so that they could now sign the best youngsters from other Academies for nominal compensation. (Bees lost their best 2 kids to L'pool and Man.City for c.£50k each, when previously we might have expected something near 7 figures).
Which was when BFC realised we couldn't go on losing money AND losing players, so we cut our losses and scrapped the Academy.
And faced with the need for an alternative, we came up with the "B" team. This is NOT just a fancy name for the Reserves, or an U-23 team by another name (although most B players are young).
Instead we realised that there were huge numbers of young 18-21 y.o's being released prematurely by bigger clubs who may just be late developers (or have other problems) and might benefit from a second chance. These are specifically recruited with a view to eventually getting into the senior team, which increasing numbers are doing.
In addition, the B team is also designed for the many young players we scout from the continent, to integrate them into the wider set-up. As such, they play challenge matches all over Europe, often against top opposition, to widen their overall experience, while playing the exact same style and tactics as the senior team. (Also play against mens teams in the Middx Senior Challenge Cup.)
And this success is now being copied by other teams eg Huddersfield Town, who recently scapped their Academy.
As for QPR, I've no doubt you're doing a good job with local kids etc, but for all that that is worthwhile, the simple fact is that fewer than 1% of kids who join a professional club eventually go on to make a living in the professional game - the attrition rates are horrendous.
And even if you manage to get it up to, say, 2% or 3%, you'll still be at risk of the big clubs swooping for your next Raheem Sterling.
Which is why our Co-Director of Football always quotes the story of David and Goliath i.e. you cannot hope to compete with the big guys on their terms, you have to come up with something different - the "B" team being our slingshot.
Of course it costs money to sign some (though not all) of these players, but it's more than paying for itself by the progression to the Senior team, and/or transfer revenue . To take one early example, Greenford boy Chris Mepham was released by Chelsea's Academy at 14, then turned down by Watford and (ahem) QPR. Brentford signed him for their then Academy, but when that was wound up, he was retained for the new B Team in his late teens, soon becoming B Team POTY. He broke into the 1st team at 20, and 18 months later, we sold him to Bournemouth for £12m.
(He was a QPR fan as a youngster, btw )
4
Few home truths from Chris Ramsay on 00:34 - Aug 20 with 2706 views
EXCLUSIVE: #SWFC are on the verge of completing the signing of Chelsea attacker Izzy Brown on a season long-loan deal.
Understand they've have held off strong competition from Nottingham Forest, Bournemouth and Queens Park Rangers to land Brown. @LiveSwfchttps://t.co/VFFdMyCez2
After a spell at Leicester as a boy, he eventually signed for WBA, where he made his debut in May 2013 aged 16, the 2nd youngest in PL history.
Then according to Wiki: "On 8 July 2013, West Bromwich Albion rejected an offer for Brown from Chelsea. Later that month, Chelsea confirmed that they had signed Brown, with compensation between the clubs reportedly set to be decided by a tribunal. After Brown left the club West Brom's chairman considered scrapping the club's category one development academy as the EPPP rules Chelsea used to sign Brown meant that the club were losing their best prospects for nominal fees that failed to cover the cost of running an academy."
Their Chairman should have had the courage of his convictions and Brown should have stayed where he was!
[Post edited 20 Aug 2020 0:36]
0
Few home truths from Chris Ramsay on 00:48 - Aug 20 with 2701 views
Few home truths from Chris Ramsay on 00:17 - Aug 20 by NewBee
"I'm not from the area but if Brentford, Chelsea and QPR are compared locally for engagement at grassroots I'd imagine we must be well considered if Chelsea are the 4rseholes, Brentford buy players for their B squad and we have u8s through to u23s of mostly local talent hoping to make the breakthrough?"
I'm not sure I agree with that assessment. It's fashionable to deride Chelsea's youth set-up, but professionals within the game all agree that the training and development they get at SB is just about the best in the English game. Their problem was that no matter how talented, they couldn't make the breakthough to the senior team because successive managers simply signed ready-made players from elsewhere at or approaching their peak for huge sums.
But I deliberately say "was", because that is changing under Fat Frank and the transfer embargo, and we're now seeing the worth of their youth system.
As for BFC, when the Academy system was brought in, we spent big money on building a 2nd level Academy (one of only 2 in Lge One I think, and higher than some in the Championship) and were enthusiastic about the whole system.
Then in return for bunging the EFL a few quid, the PL shifted the goalposts so that they could now sign the best youngsters from other Academies for nominal compensation. (Bees lost their best 2 kids to L'pool and Man.City for c.£50k each, when previously we might have expected something near 7 figures).
Which was when BFC realised we couldn't go on losing money AND losing players, so we cut our losses and scrapped the Academy.
And faced with the need for an alternative, we came up with the "B" team. This is NOT just a fancy name for the Reserves, or an U-23 team by another name (although most B players are young).
Instead we realised that there were huge numbers of young 18-21 y.o's being released prematurely by bigger clubs who may just be late developers (or have other problems) and might benefit from a second chance. These are specifically recruited with a view to eventually getting into the senior team, which increasing numbers are doing.
In addition, the B team is also designed for the many young players we scout from the continent, to integrate them into the wider set-up. As such, they play challenge matches all over Europe, often against top opposition, to widen their overall experience, while playing the exact same style and tactics as the senior team. (Also play against mens teams in the Middx Senior Challenge Cup.)
And this success is now being copied by other teams eg Huddersfield Town, who recently scapped their Academy.
As for QPR, I've no doubt you're doing a good job with local kids etc, but for all that that is worthwhile, the simple fact is that fewer than 1% of kids who join a professional club eventually go on to make a living in the professional game - the attrition rates are horrendous.
And even if you manage to get it up to, say, 2% or 3%, you'll still be at risk of the big clubs swooping for your next Raheem Sterling.
Which is why our Co-Director of Football always quotes the story of David and Goliath i.e. you cannot hope to compete with the big guys on their terms, you have to come up with something different - the "B" team being our slingshot.
Of course it costs money to sign some (though not all) of these players, but it's more than paying for itself by the progression to the Senior team, and/or transfer revenue . To take one early example, Greenford boy Chris Mepham was released by Chelsea's Academy at 14, then turned down by Watford and (ahem) QPR. Brentford signed him for their then Academy, but when that was wound up, he was retained for the new B Team in his late teens, soon becoming B Team POTY. He broke into the 1st team at 20, and 18 months later, we sold him to Bournemouth for £12m.
(He was a QPR fan as a youngster, btw )
Chelsea, fair enough but tbh they're not in same market, it's farming. I'd say under your new model you'd have missed out on the Mepham lad, you do talk about it being on the cusp of transition and it wouldn't have been cut and dried you had him. Business wise there are no holes to pick with Brentford model as we speak but here we're critiquing the Ramsey/QPR model, not theirs, and I think it is relevant to have the full Academy structure, so long as it pays, and CR did state that. There's a world of difference between expecting it to return you £12m players or instead adding something to the community, the club and at the same time at least being cash neutral. I think the club will run this community based academy while also 'microwaving' the other talent that are becoming a major part of our structure. Eze may or may not dwarf the Mepham fee and we still retain the roots of the club. 1% success rate or not
0
Few home truths from Chris Ramsay on 07:21 - Aug 20 with 2574 views
Few home truths from Chris Ramsay on 00:48 - Aug 20 by karl
Chelsea, fair enough but tbh they're not in same market, it's farming. I'd say under your new model you'd have missed out on the Mepham lad, you do talk about it being on the cusp of transition and it wouldn't have been cut and dried you had him. Business wise there are no holes to pick with Brentford model as we speak but here we're critiquing the Ramsey/QPR model, not theirs, and I think it is relevant to have the full Academy structure, so long as it pays, and CR did state that. There's a world of difference between expecting it to return you £12m players or instead adding something to the community, the club and at the same time at least being cash neutral. I think the club will run this community based academy while also 'microwaving' the other talent that are becoming a major part of our structure. Eze may or may not dwarf the Mepham fee and we still retain the roots of the club. 1% success rate or not
We are clearly raising our own and picking up players prematurely discarded by other clubs, surely the best of both worlds.
I like to think we are a club well rooted in the community, and that an integral part of that is our teams at younger levels.
If all the non-premiership teams discarded their academies, you can bet (Your clubs) bottom dollar that premiership clubs would enforce some financial return on kids they don't want anyway.
For 'uddersfield, getting to the premiership and then disbanding their youth system was a pretty low act, for me.
2
Few home truths from Chris Ramsay on 12:28 - Aug 20 with 2344 views
Few home truths from Chris Ramsay on 00:48 - Aug 20 by karl
Chelsea, fair enough but tbh they're not in same market, it's farming. I'd say under your new model you'd have missed out on the Mepham lad, you do talk about it being on the cusp of transition and it wouldn't have been cut and dried you had him. Business wise there are no holes to pick with Brentford model as we speak but here we're critiquing the Ramsey/QPR model, not theirs, and I think it is relevant to have the full Academy structure, so long as it pays, and CR did state that. There's a world of difference between expecting it to return you £12m players or instead adding something to the community, the club and at the same time at least being cash neutral. I think the club will run this community based academy while also 'microwaving' the other talent that are becoming a major part of our structure. Eze may or may not dwarf the Mepham fee and we still retain the roots of the club. 1% success rate or not
Re Mepham, when the Academy was scrapped a number of the players were released., but Mepham was one of the remainder who was accepted into the Academy, alongside others who were recruited externally. In that sense, he was a "B" Team player/graduate, just like the rest.
As for your Academy "adding something to the community", I'm afraid that is entirely misreading the situation.
For while there is no doubt that QPR does terrific work in the local community, that is via their Community Trust (Brentford have a similarly successful and acknowledged Trust of their own, working in their own area).
The QPR Academy, however, exists solely in order to provide players for the 1st team. And while they do recruit locally, afaik there are FA controls over how far Academies may recruit outside their area and in any case, it must be easier and cheaper to recruit locally, as well as persuade local kids to join, so it's in QPR's own interests to do it that way.
Finally, the vast majority of Academy recruits eventually get released without making a f-t career in the game, whether with QPR or elsewhere, so it can't be classified as "community" work.
0
Few home truths from Chris Ramsay on 12:45 - Aug 20 with 2317 views
Few home truths from Chris Ramsay on 07:21 - Aug 20 by distortR
We are clearly raising our own and picking up players prematurely discarded by other clubs, surely the best of both worlds.
I like to think we are a club well rooted in the community, and that an integral part of that is our teams at younger levels.
If all the non-premiership teams discarded their academies, you can bet (Your clubs) bottom dollar that premiership clubs would enforce some financial return on kids they don't want anyway.
For 'uddersfield, getting to the premiership and then disbanding their youth system was a pretty low act, for me.
"For 'uddersfield, getting to the premiership and then disbanding their youth system was a pretty low act, for me."
I was wrong when I indicated Hudds had scrapped their Academy - in fact they downgraded it from Category Two to Four (the minimum). This was a direct response to the PL introducing the Elite Player Performance Plan, which effectively screwed club academies outside the top level.
Few home truths from Chris Ramsay on 07:21 - Aug 20 by distortR
We are clearly raising our own and picking up players prematurely discarded by other clubs, surely the best of both worlds.
I like to think we are a club well rooted in the community, and that an integral part of that is our teams at younger levels.
If all the non-premiership teams discarded their academies, you can bet (Your clubs) bottom dollar that premiership clubs would enforce some financial return on kids they don't want anyway.
For 'uddersfield, getting to the premiership and then disbanding their youth system was a pretty low act, for me.
Spot on, distortR.
"The opposite of love, after all, is not hate, but indifference."
By continuing to use the site, you agree to our use of cookies and to abide by our Terms and Conditions.
) 