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It all comes across as totally missplaced conceitedness to me. Same as when we say Player "X" needs to be sold.
You need clubs willing to take them no?
What makes people think clubs at any half decent level are falling over themselves to take these co called prospects that a load of idiots who are clueless about football have signed? There's literally only two or three good examples in recent memory that you could cite -- Chair to Stevenage, Eze to Wycombe and (pushing it here), Lumley to Brizzle Rovers. None of those under the current incumbents of Heads of xxxx
Where else has us loaning out young players benefitted the accepting club, QPR and in turn the developing player? Examples are rare as hen's teeth and if I'm the Chairman / Owner of another club I'm not looking to extend my budget, potentially upset my squad or risk derision from my fans just to accomodate a punt QPR with their track record have taken.
Maybe I'm wrong but the current lack of our players at any sort of half decent level is either down to this and/or the absolute dearth of contacts Nourry and his team of Heads have in the game.
Surely anyone with some sort of football knowledge can see Esquidinhia would be eaten alive in League One or Two? I've described him as the worst Brazilian since Gemma Collins shaved her fanny and I stick by that. I actually feared for his wellbeing at Oxford but always did have a tiny voice in my head saying "he's putting that all on.... doesn't like to be hit hard". I'm a harsh old w@nker I know but being available for selection a week after being stretchered off in a leg brace with gas and air being given has justified that feeling to me.
I'd also add other "developing" players to that - Bennie has razzled in a blinder against a Hull side leavign space everywhere, but where would a recieving club actually look to play him? It seems the club who owns him doesn't know itself what his position is. He's been with us nearly two season's now hasn't he? The other Aussies will be exactly the same I'd say - extensive and far reaching data and profiling by the same Agent might be a clue.
Just as I finish typing the GK in Murphy springs to mind. Mmmmmm.... maybe but Barnsley weren't grumbling when he was pulled out and sent to Hillsborough.
I'm all for loaning out players to learn their trade in the mens game but the fact is they need to have something about them to enable that. Maybe Nourry will examine this when he reviews himself this summer in his own Staff Performance Assessment - he'll probably give himelf 11 out of 10 though.
For me it's a FAIL at the moment and shows no sign of improving.
Cherish and enjoy life.... this ain't no dress rehearsal
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"Would benefit from a loan elsewhere...." on 17:43 - Mar 2 with 1845 views
IMO it's just virtue signalling, suggesting that the person saying that (along with "xxx player should be sold" [who will buy them if they're schit?], "board needs to go", "chairman/owner needs to go", "manager needs to go" ("He has to go"), "games gone" etc have the answers when in fact, they do not.
99.99999% of anything said is conjecture, guesswork, opinion etc etc. Which is fine, that's just like chatting down the pub.
Even if anyone happens to know something for absolute certainty, that's all it is, knowledge. Unless there are any secret millionaires/billionaires on here that are on the Club board none of us have any control, influence etc at all in what goes on at the club so it is just chat.
[Post edited 2 Mar 19:50]
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"Would benefit from a loan elsewhere...." on 18:44 - Mar 2 with 1621 views
Another one is arguably Ryan Manning who had a successful loan with Rotherham. Of course it didn't work out for us as he was unhappy with his treatment and took himself off to Swansea. Ended up playing with Southampton in the Premier League and an Irish international and is now one of the best left backs in the championship. Gets to rub it in our faces twice a season too.
[Post edited 2 Mar 18:47]
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"Would benefit from a loan elsewhere...." on 19:01 - Mar 2 with 1560 views
"Would benefit from a loan elsewhere...." on 18:44 - Mar 2 by CateLeBonR
Another one is arguably Ryan Manning who had a successful loan with Rotherham. Of course it didn't work out for us as he was unhappy with his treatment and took himself off to Swansea. Ended up playing with Southampton in the Premier League and an Irish international and is now one of the best left backs in the championship. Gets to rub it in our faces twice a season too.
[Post edited 2 Mar 18:47]
Manning did exactly the same to Swansea as he did to us: run down his contract to get the maximum signing on fee at his new club. And I’m sure he’d do exactly the same to Southampton given half the chance but at 29 his biggest contracts are behind him.
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"Would benefit from a loan elsewhere...." on 19:06 - Mar 2 with 1537 views
"Would benefit from a loan elsewhere...." on 19:06 - Mar 2 by NgaiTahu_Hoop
You could say the Kelmen loan ultimately benefitted us. Not on the pitch personally but it did allow us to trade up
That's a shout - will give them that one as well.
Forgot as he never really did it for us but as you say, the fee could be argued as "doing it for us". Weird one though with a kid who never scored a goal for us!
Cherish and enjoy life.... this ain't no dress rehearsal
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"Would benefit from a loan elsewhere...." on 21:39 - Mar 2 with 1243 views
I think the idea of the needs a loan thing is that we sign players who have not played much mens football so to get a 17-19 year old players out on loan playing regular football and learning is their best chance of becoming good enough to play for us. Worked with Chair and Eze, less so with many others.
I also think with some of the loans you can probably tell they are not going to make it here either and save everyone some time.
I do think though that for a club that prides themself on being a development club we are really poor at actually developing players ourselves and need other clubs to do it for us and then gain the benefits. See Eze, Dieng and Chair.
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"Would benefit from a loan elsewhere...." on 08:52 - Mar 3 with 974 views
The difficulties we have is that far too many of our loanees aren't even good enough for National League level. The current exceptions are Alfie Lloyd (Lincoln in L1), Cooper (Sheff Wed), Emerson Sutton (Harrogate in L2), Akindeleni (Morecambe in Nat League). With the exception of Cooper, who is now injured, the others are not regular starters. They aren't going to improve if not selected by their loan clubs.
"Travel is fatal to prejudice, bigotry and narrow-mindedness, and many of our people need it sorely on these accounts. Broad, wholesome, charitable views of men and things cannot be acquired by vegetating in one little corner of the Earth all one's lifetime." (Mark Twain)
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"Would benefit from a loan elsewhere...." on 08:52 - Mar 3 by derbyhoop
The difficulties we have is that far too many of our loanees aren't even good enough for National League level. The current exceptions are Alfie Lloyd (Lincoln in L1), Cooper (Sheff Wed), Emerson Sutton (Harrogate in L2), Akindeleni (Morecambe in Nat League). With the exception of Cooper, who is now injured, the others are not regular starters. They aren't going to improve if not selected by their loan clubs.
So I return to my original point.
These young lads have been picked up by the latest set of Bengal Lancers and nests have been feathered......... clearly none of them good enough and I might caveat that with a "yet" but then again :- "If you're not knocking on the door of the first team by 21 then you never will be". Mmmmmmmmmmmm.
I know nothing but in my warped mind if you are 20 years old, a well paid football pro, but can't get a start at National League South then you best start thinking about setting up a Personal Trainer business or come to QPR to get your pension fund started.
Cherish and enjoy life.... this ain't no dress rehearsal
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"Would benefit from a loan elsewhere...." on 09:24 - Mar 3 with 910 views
Our two most likely outfield loanees, Lloyd and Sutton, are getting less or similar minutes for Lincoln and Harrogate (Sutton not even making Harrogate's most recent squads) than they probably would at QPR at the moment. Which tells its own story about the real quality of what lies beneath the first-team at Dev graduate level.
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"Would benefit from a loan elsewhere...." on 09:29 - Mar 3 with 889 views
"Would benefit from a loan elsewhere...." on 21:55 - Mar 2 by daveB
I think the idea of the needs a loan thing is that we sign players who have not played much mens football so to get a 17-19 year old players out on loan playing regular football and learning is their best chance of becoming good enough to play for us. Worked with Chair and Eze, less so with many others.
I also think with some of the loans you can probably tell they are not going to make it here either and save everyone some time.
I do think though that for a club that prides themself on being a development club we are really poor at actually developing players ourselves and need other clubs to do it for us and then gain the benefits. See Eze, Dieng and Chair.
I don't think the last point really makes sense. Going out on loan is a normal part of development because players often have the potential to play at your level but not the experience, so loaning them out to a lower level lets them play games where their natural ability carries them a bit while getting the chance to play competitive games against grown men. Managing that effectively IS developing players, not failing at it. QPR's problem for years has been that we either keep young players rotting on our bench and don't give them a chance to actually play games, or we hold on to them until their mid-20s while loaning them out so far below the level it's obvious that they're not good enough and won't be.
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"Would benefit from a loan elsewhere...." on 09:40 - Mar 3 with 853 views
Thought I heard that by all accounts, over the summer there was cock up with securing EFL loans for some of our players but they all missed the deadline and had to go non-league instead.
"Would benefit from a loan elsewhere...." on 09:29 - Mar 3 by BrizR
I don't think the last point really makes sense. Going out on loan is a normal part of development because players often have the potential to play at your level but not the experience, so loaning them out to a lower level lets them play games where their natural ability carries them a bit while getting the chance to play competitive games against grown men. Managing that effectively IS developing players, not failing at it. QPR's problem for years has been that we either keep young players rotting on our bench and don't give them a chance to actually play games, or we hold on to them until their mid-20s while loaning them out so far below the level it's obvious that they're not good enough and won't be.
A loan is part of their development but the ones who stay here seem to get worse rather than better. I'm in a grumpy mood this week so am possibly just moaning for the sake of it
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"Would benefit from a loan elsewhere...." on 10:12 - Mar 3 with 750 views
"Would benefit from a loan elsewhere...." on 09:49 - Mar 3 by daveB
A loan is part of their development but the ones who stay here seem to get worse rather than better. I'm in a grumpy mood this week so am possibly just moaning for the sake of it
Good young players benefit from a loan as it proves they can play professional men's football, either at their club or, if not quite of the level, then elsewhere.
By and large, we are not producing those young players. (I'd argue that we were actually slightly better at producing young professional footballers under the previous regime than we look to be currently, but time will tell.)
Issac Hayden is excellent on James Allcott's Ripple Effect this week in discussing his experience of this at Arsenal, having had a loan as young player at Hull and Wenger saying he needed to sign permanently elsewhere to make it. Wenger's mantra at Arsenal was if a young player wasn't going to make it at Arsenal, then the club's duty was to make sure they were able to make it elsewhere. We look a long, long way from that.
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"Would benefit from a loan elsewhere...." on 10:31 - Mar 3 with 684 views
"Would benefit from a loan elsewhere...." on 09:44 - Mar 3 by TheChef
Thought I heard that by all accounts, over the summer there was cock up with securing EFL loans for some of our players but they all missed the deadline and had to go non-league instead.
That sounds very unlikely: any actual proof of this?
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"Would benefit from a loan elsewhere...." on 10:35 - Mar 3 with 662 views
I also think we really underestimate how good some of the players are in League 1. Esquerdinha is never ever going to make it in English football, not unless he has some Madsen-esque resurrection.
Send him to League 1 where he can play against the likes of Elijah Adebayo, Louis Barry, Jamie Reid, Chris Willock etc.
By that same measurement, what club in League 1 is taking any of our youngster, it's why Sutton is where he is, and playing as much as he is.
The examples of Chair and Eze are slight anomalys too. Eze is Eze and Chair has hands down been the best player at the club for years.
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"Would benefit from a loan elsewhere...." on 13:40 - Mar 3 with 445 views
"Would benefit from a loan elsewhere...." on 20:48 - Mar 2 by Lblock
That's a shout - will give them that one as well.
Forgot as he never really did it for us but as you say, the fee could be argued as "doing it for us". Weird one though with a kid who never scored a goal for us!
You can add Seny Dieng to a number of clubs including Doncaster.
I am confident that Walsh could have had a loan like Cooper to a L1 side , but Nourry wanted him in the 1st team.
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"Would benefit from a loan elsewhere...." on 13:42 - Mar 3 with 441 views
"Would benefit from a loan elsewhere...." on 20:48 - Mar 2 by Lblock
That's a shout - will give them that one as well.
Forgot as he never really did it for us but as you say, the fee could be argued as "doing it for us". Weird one though with a kid who never scored a goal for us!
But he seems to have recently found his scoring boots which suggests he needed time and a run of games.
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"Would benefit from a loan elsewhere...." on 20:42 - Mar 3 with 236 views
"Would benefit from a loan elsewhere...." on 09:44 - Mar 3 by TheChef
Thought I heard that by all accounts, over the summer there was cock up with securing EFL loans for some of our players but they all missed the deadline and had to go non-league instead.
And teenage players having to arrange their own loans as CN told them it was too late for the club to do anything. Poor.
My biggest issue with CN, apart from Ben Williams, is the clubs attitude to the youngsters.
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