| Defensive set piece déjà vu – Analysis on 16:40 - Jan 11 with 3005 views | robith |
As ever, a great addition to the site, though even more depressing to have an informed eye take a look over and the conclusion be "they're clowns" |  | |  |
| Defensive set piece déjà vu – Analysis on 16:49 - Jan 11 with 2968 views | Northernr |
| Defensive set piece déjà vu – Analysis on 16:40 - Jan 11 by robith |
As ever, a great addition to the site, though even more depressing to have an informed eye take a look over and the conclusion be "they're clowns" |
Yeh there's been a lot of chat about zonal v man etc etc etc, which is why we put Dan on it, but it seems to me even his conclusion is 'if you haven't got people committed enough to attack the ball, and concentrated enough to react, then it really doesn't matter what system you're operating'. |  | | |
| Defensive set piece déjà vu – Analysis on 16:55 - Jan 11 with 2941 views | Rangersw12 |
| Defensive set piece déjà vu – Analysis on 16:49 - Jan 11 by Northernr |
Yeh there's been a lot of chat about zonal v man etc etc etc, which is why we put Dan on it, but it seems to me even his conclusion is 'if you haven't got people committed enough to attack the ball, and concentrated enough to react, then it really doesn't matter what system you're operating'. |
As predicted it's the players fault
Shock horror
Where's Stainrod...... [Post edited 11 Jan 2024 16:56]
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| Defensive set piece déjà vu – Analysis on 18:00 - Jan 11 with 2730 views | Jules4367 |
A great piece of analysis and one wonders if this can be prepared and posted here why cannot the players understand what Marti must be drilling into them.
My only request is that at some point can someone do a similar analysis as to why we keep being overloaded on our left and Paal allows players to get to the goal line and cross either low or high , for someone at the back post to tap in! Madness!
But, as I say, a great review and thanks | | | |
| Defensive set piece déjà vu – Analysis on 18:04 - Jan 11 with 2726 views | essextaxiboy |
How the fck did we concede from the position in Pic 2 at Millwall ? |  | | |
| Defensive set piece déjà vu – Analysis on 20:07 - Jan 11 with 2521 views | CLAREMAN1995 |
That is great stuff and the last few lines bring down the killer blow we have thrown away 9 points and the FA cup exit by fcuking around not defending our goal like our life depended on it .
At the other end we are pathetic from corners its pretty obvious the scouts do their jobs well for the oposition and know our weakness .
At least half of those goals came from needless corners where we just did not clear it or let it run out of play.
Did anybody else see Fox actually dribble the ball out for a Bourmouth corner when we were under the crushing pressure but luckily they did not score that one they had enough damage done already .
Extra time this week for Marti to get it corrected at both ends though |  | | |
| Defensive set piece déjà vu – Analysis on 20:29 - Jan 11 with 2474 views | Antti_Heinola |
Said this before and Dan seems to echo it. In terms of attacking corners everyone focuses on delivery, but in fact, there have been plenty of decent corners slung in: we just never win them and don't have players who attack the ball with conviction. The same plays out defensively. That's why when everyone focused on Marti digging out Armstrong, I disagreed. Marti doesn't even want Armstrong in the effing box, but he's had to put him there to give us an extra body. That's, imo, why he was 'sorry' for Armsgtrong, because he shouldn't need to be there. just my opinion.
Cook will make a big difference if he ever gets fit. |  |
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| Defensive set piece déjà vu – Analysis on 21:46 - Jan 11 with 2347 views | ParkRoyalR |
| Defensive set piece déjà vu – Analysis on 20:29 - Jan 11 by Antti_Heinola |
Said this before and Dan seems to echo it. In terms of attacking corners everyone focuses on delivery, but in fact, there have been plenty of decent corners slung in: we just never win them and don't have players who attack the ball with conviction. The same plays out defensively. That's why when everyone focused on Marti digging out Armstrong, I disagreed. Marti doesn't even want Armstrong in the effing box, but he's had to put him there to give us an extra body. That's, imo, why he was 'sorry' for Armsgtrong, because he shouldn't need to be there. just my opinion.
Cook will make a big difference if he ever gets fit. |
Does he?
Plenty of decent corners slung in?
By who? By Chair or Paal?
C'mon let's keep it honest, our eyes don't lie and no stat in the world or mis-interpretation of defending corners data can say other than our corners rarely beat the 1st man. | | | |
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| Defensive set piece déjà vu – Analysis on 22:18 - Jan 11 with 2285 views | mart_Goblin |
| Defensive set piece déjà vu – Analysis on 16:49 - Jan 11 by Northernr |
Yeh there's been a lot of chat about zonal v man etc etc etc, which is why we put Dan on it, but it seems to me even his conclusion is 'if you haven't got people committed enough to attack the ball, and concentrated enough to react, then it really doesn't matter what system you're operating'. |
Absolutely agree.
As I said before, zonal is only a starting point . Regardless of whether you are marking someone or you are in an ocean of space , if the ball is played into your general area , you attack it and defend your goal .
The JCS one for Cardiff’s second goal is criminal. Yes Begovic is at fault for flapping in no man’s land, but that shouldn’t in anyway stop JCS doing his JOB and defending our goal, but instead he did some weird Hokey Cokey and let Kolli deal with it (badly) |  | | |
| Defensive set piece déjà vu – Analysis on 22:21 - Jan 11 with 2283 views | Antti_Heinola |
| Defensive set piece déjà vu – Analysis on 21:46 - Jan 11 by ParkRoyalR |
Does he?
Plenty of decent corners slung in?
By who? By Chair or Paal?
C'mon let's keep it honest, our eyes don't lie and no stat in the world or mis-interpretation of defending corners data can say other than our corners rarely beat the 1st man. |
1. Plenty have beaten the first man. Although many haven’t!
2. Why is it that if we are taking near post corners, it is ALWAYS the oppo man gets there first? Why is that the default? Why don’t we ever win that ball?
To be clear, not saying our delivery has been great, or even good, but even when it is, we don’t win it anyway. It can’t be totally down to the kicker. As Dan says, it’s also about our lack of desire to win the effing thing. | |
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| Defensive set piece déjà vu – Analysis on 22:24 - Jan 11 with 2278 views | Northernr |
| Defensive set piece déjà vu – Analysis on 22:18 - Jan 11 by mart_Goblin |
Absolutely agree.
As I said before, zonal is only a starting point . Regardless of whether you are marking someone or you are in an ocean of space , if the ball is played into your general area , you attack it and defend your goal .
The JCS one for Cardiff’s second goal is criminal. Yes Begovic is at fault for flapping in no man’s land, but that shouldn’t in anyway stop JCS doing his JOB and defending our goal, but instead he did some weird Hokey Cokey and let Kolli deal with it (badly) |
And no surprise to me that a few minutes later the hand's in the air and he wants to go off. | | | |
| Defensive set piece déjà vu – Analysis on 22:26 - Jan 11 with 2276 views | mart_Goblin |
| Defensive set piece déjà vu – Analysis on 22:24 - Jan 11 by Northernr |
And no surprise to me that a few minutes later the hand's in the air and he wants to go off. |
It does seem to be the pattern doesn’t it .
Gets on my f*cking nerves if I’m honest 😄 | | | |
| Defensive set piece déjà vu – Analysis on 22:27 - Jan 11 with 2269 views | Northernr |
| Defensive set piece déjà vu – Analysis on 22:26 - Jan 11 by mart_Goblin |
It does seem to be the pattern doesn’t it .
Gets on my f*cking nerves if I’m honest 😄 |
Good player. No arse. That's why he's here and not somewhere else. | | | |
| Defensive set piece déjà vu – Analysis on 22:41 - Jan 11 with 2247 views | ParkRoyalR |
| Defensive set piece déjà vu – Analysis on 22:21 - Jan 11 by Antti_Heinola |
1. Plenty have beaten the first man. Although many haven’t!
2. Why is it that if we are taking near post corners, it is ALWAYS the oppo man gets there first? Why is that the default? Why don’t we ever win that ball?
To be clear, not saying our delivery has been great, or even good, but even when it is, we don’t win it anyway. It can’t be totally down to the kicker. As Dan says, it’s also about our lack of desire to win the effing thing. |
Disagree in part, for all Chair's technical ability + occasional superb free kicks (Sunderland away) his corners are puzzling poor and consistently seem to fall a yard or two short of being on the money.
Agree tho we don't seem to task the right players in attacking the Near Post. Even if the ball isn't perfect, we should be winning more flick-on's.
Both Dunne + Dykes have the desire in them to attack the Near Post but are rarely tasked to do so. | | | |
| Defensive set piece déjà vu – Analysis on 07:44 - Jan 12 with 1994 views | Hunterhoop |
Quelle surprise. Nice of Dan to spell it out and evidence it that player effort and desire is the problem. Two of those involve us with 2 defenders to one attacker at the back stick, and two involve redundant positions of our players. I’d also point out the absolute half baked effort of EDB (I think) in the Wednesday goal where he comes to help Chair out to stop Bannan’s cross. Chair has held him up a bit, but the supporting player is slow to get out and takes up a horrible position. Bannan is always going to cut to his left and he’s made his body narrow behind Chair rather than getting alongside him. It’s lazy and a bit cowardly.
The obvious next step for us is to switch the personnel between zonal and man marking. Make the centre halves man to man and leave others in their zones. At the minute we’re the other way around and unless the ball is delivered straight onto a zonal players head, the inferior players we have in the air are getting bossed physically by the men they are marking. Dunne/Cook and JCS go man to man, probably with Field and AN OTHER, with Cannon, Paal, and two other zonal. There are pros and cons to each way around but it’s not working for us currently. |  | | |
| Defensive set piece déjà vu – Analysis on 08:01 - Jan 12 with 1968 views | ParkRoyalR |
| Defensive set piece déjà vu – Analysis on 07:44 - Jan 12 by Hunterhoop |
Quelle surprise. Nice of Dan to spell it out and evidence it that player effort and desire is the problem. Two of those involve us with 2 defenders to one attacker at the back stick, and two involve redundant positions of our players. I’d also point out the absolute half baked effort of EDB (I think) in the Wednesday goal where he comes to help Chair out to stop Bannan’s cross. Chair has held him up a bit, but the supporting player is slow to get out and takes up a horrible position. Bannan is always going to cut to his left and he’s made his body narrow behind Chair rather than getting alongside him. It’s lazy and a bit cowardly.
The obvious next step for us is to switch the personnel between zonal and man marking. Make the centre halves man to man and leave others in their zones. At the minute we’re the other way around and unless the ball is delivered straight onto a zonal players head, the inferior players we have in the air are getting bossed physically by the men they are marking. Dunne/Cook and JCS go man to man, probably with Field and AN OTHER, with Cannon, Paal, and two other zonal. There are pros and cons to each way around but it’s not working for us currently. |
Agree, this is where your wrestling technique, strength + desire is so important in the Championship and where Dunne in particular, Field, Dykes, Cook (tbc) and JCS (suspect) are so important in the box.
Dunne man2man in my book doesn't lose those crucial physical battles lost for key goals at Sheff Wed, Millwall, Cardiff and others of late and we're in a total different place points and morale wise.
In open play its maybe a different argument but we have to win our battles + our right to get to the ball first at set-pieces and JCS is very suspect and the likes of Dozzell lqck the desire to even run with the ball let alone win a header in a division for big lads with desire as the Championship is. | | | |
| Defensive set piece déjà vu – Analysis on 09:46 - Jan 12 with 1832 views | traininvain |
We need Cook back asap and ideally next to JCS as that partnership has been the cornerstone of our best defensive performances this season. |  | | |
| Defensive set piece déjà vu – Analysis on 10:36 - Jan 12 with 1779 views | ParkRoyalR |
| Defensive set piece déjà vu – Analysis on 09:46 - Jan 12 by traininvain |
We need Cook back asap and ideally next to JCS as that partnership has been the cornerstone of our best defensive performances this season. |
Best defensive performance this season was surely versus Preston where Dunne (on the right!) & JCS combined to dominate Preston and restrict them to maybe one or two half chances (with one being an unfortunate ricochet off JCS).
JCS has been so weak & lacking in desire in recent games and is absolutely not the man to fix our defensive failings from set pieces given his abysmal defensive efforts v Cardiff and Millwall.
Cook has shown captaincy type leadership twice, both times the opposition went down to 10 men and with space in front of him he finally stepped up and stopped his usual hospital no return out-ball pass to Kakay.
Cook was also surprisingly weak and caught out for what could be a season defining loss at Wednesday.
Until we get an on-field captain (Cook ideally), a central midfielder showing for the ball from the defence, and ditch relying on Kolli / Armstrong / Dozzell to defend key positions at set pieces, whether its Cook / JCS or Dunne, even McDonald & Maddix would struggling defending in this team. | | | |
| Defensive set piece déjà vu – Analysis on 11:35 - Jan 12 with 1703 views | joe90 |
Interesting read.
The way I see it if you go man 2 man, it's binary, you either win or lose your duel. That could be attributed to a lack of desire or in some cases a physical mismatch ie: getting a smaller player to mark a bigger player.
Regarding zonal, the key is reading the game/anticipating the ball, which requires the player to be alert/switched on.
The 2v1 against Millwall incorporated pretty much every problem we have defending set pieces.
Woe betide the manager who tries to coach this team. |  | | |
| Defensive set piece déjà vu – Analysis on 11:52 - Jan 12 with 1681 views | EastR |
| Defensive set piece déjà vu – Analysis on 11:35 - Jan 12 by joe90 |
Interesting read.
The way I see it if you go man 2 man, it's binary, you either win or lose your duel. That could be attributed to a lack of desire or in some cases a physical mismatch ie: getting a smaller player to mark a bigger player.
Regarding zonal, the key is reading the game/anticipating the ball, which requires the player to be alert/switched on.
The 2v1 against Millwall incorporated pretty much every problem we have defending set pieces.
Woe betide the manager who tries to coach this team. |
Never seen that Zonal bloke get any goals, oppo players on the other hand free reign to score against us. | |
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| Defensive set piece déjà vu – Analysis on 12:57 - Jan 12 with 1609 views | R_from_afar |
Great analysis - thank you - but every bit as depressing as I knew it would be.
I still feel this squad suffers from hubris, complacency and a lack of professional pride. Those are major issues which are not easily addressed. |  |
| "Things had started becoming increasingly desperate at Loftus Road but QPR have been handed a massive lifeline and the place has absolutely erupted. it's carnage. It's bedlam. It's 1-1." |
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| Defensive set piece déjà vu – Analysis on 14:20 - Jan 12 with 1513 views | TheChef |
| Defensive set piece déjà vu – Analysis on 08:01 - Jan 12 by ParkRoyalR |
Agree, this is where your wrestling technique, strength + desire is so important in the Championship and where Dunne in particular, Field, Dykes, Cook (tbc) and JCS (suspect) are so important in the box.
Dunne man2man in my book doesn't lose those crucial physical battles lost for key goals at Sheff Wed, Millwall, Cardiff and others of late and we're in a total different place points and morale wise.
In open play its maybe a different argument but we have to win our battles + our right to get to the ball first at set-pieces and JCS is very suspect and the likes of Dozzell lqck the desire to even run with the ball let alone win a header in a division for big lads with desire as the Championship is. |
For all of Dunne's current faults, the one area I expect him to excel is winning the ball in the air, so if he is playing then in these corners and set pieces he should definitely be man marking. |  |
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| Defensive set piece déjà vu – Analysis on 17:38 - Jan 12 with 1343 views | themodfather |
our goalie, is a good shot stopper but is very weak at corners, he is huge but does not dominate his box/area , thats my tuppence worth | | | |
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