| Shootings in Wealdstone 08:32 - May 7 with 12060 views | RD2112 |
I used to live in Wealdstone in the late 80's, I was in Claremont Road about half a mile away. My daughter grew up there and I never once worried about her safety. Unless things have really changed, it was never what you'd call a "Ghetto Area". I moved from England in 2003, has it really become that bad now? When I see stuff like this I am so glad that I moved away. |  | | |  |
| Shootings in Wealdstone on 13:42 - May 7 with 2440 views | Boston |
| Shootings in Wealdstone on 12:16 - May 7 by BazzaInTheLoft |
The Equality Trust has tons of these graphs including violent crime probably.
The point is, inequality makes criminals, not single parents or statute books. |
But Baz, I thought the real criminals were the bankers, the Hedge Funds and the corporations? |  |
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| Shootings in Wealdstone on 14:22 - May 7 with 2402 views | Boston |
Quick q re knife crime in the UK. Are there any new restrictions in place or coming down the line that regulate the ownership, carrying or sale of any type of blade?
I had a (usually),quite rational neighbour tell me there was, is going to be something.News to me. | |
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| Shootings in Wealdstone on 14:33 - May 7 with 2398 views | distortR |
I recently watched a couple of the Louis Theroux documentaries about a prison in miami. He talked to gang members and murderers, people we dismiss as scum. Some of them turned out to be suprisingly articulate and likeable, despite the things they had done and the hellhole they now inhabit. Three things really struck me;
1/ That from the day they are born these people lived in a world so different from mine, where gang life is the all-pervasive norm;
2/ How many of them didn't have a male role-model in the home, and that the replacement for that void is filled by the gang on the streets;
3/ and how little such a wealthy and powerful nation seems prepared to do to try and change things - they try to deal with the results not the causes.
In addition, we all face a constant media bombardment showing us what we could have if only we had the money - the car, the woman, the holidays, the houses, the furnishings - in this vacuous society it's what we are supposed to aspire to but this vacuous society is also an increasingly divided one. So how are people at the bottom supposed to attain what we are told is the only form of success, the justification of our lives? go figure. | | | |
| Shootings in Wealdstone on 14:38 - May 7 with 2391 views | BazzaInTheLoft |
| Shootings in Wealdstone on 13:42 - May 7 by Boston |
But Baz, I thought the real criminals were the bankers, the Hedge Funds and the corporations? |
Well, a banker might not knife you to death in Stoke Newington, by they will starve you and or force you to die of exposure. |  | | |
| Shootings in Wealdstone on 14:52 - May 7 with 2373 views | Lblock |
| Shootings in Wealdstone on 12:16 - May 7 by BazzaInTheLoft |
The Equality Trust has tons of these graphs including violent crime probably.
The point is, inequality makes criminals, not single parents or statute books. |
It won’t surprise you that I think that is tosh
I quite fancy an Aston Martin DB7 – should I go and jack someone who drives past me in one? Or should I mug people, break into houses, hold up the newsagents etc?
Or should I get my nut down and work my way towards my goals?
Alternatively, I could just say fair play to whoever’s managed to attain a position in life through endeavour; say you lucky buggers to those born into it and instead focus on making my life and the lives of those around me who I care about as best as possible.
There’s so much wrong with this modern society from the instant gratification culture, the want it now attitude, violent video games, rap and grime music glorifying a load of old bowlarks, collapse of morals and the old order of respect....right the way up to the system that keeps many down and surpressed and the scandalous destruction of the police, the support networks, the prisons, schools and medical system
I have no answers; but blaming it all on an aspirational approach to life and thinking a commune way of living where we all own the same Skoda, one suit and a boiler suit with a daily ration of three spuds a day is the answer is madness |  |
| Cherish and enjoy life.... this ain't no dress rehearsal |
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| Shootings in Wealdstone on 15:05 - May 7 with 2352 views | Boston |
| Shootings in Wealdstone on 14:33 - May 7 by distortR |
I recently watched a couple of the Louis Theroux documentaries about a prison in miami. He talked to gang members and murderers, people we dismiss as scum. Some of them turned out to be suprisingly articulate and likeable, despite the things they had done and the hellhole they now inhabit. Three things really struck me;
1/ That from the day they are born these people lived in a world so different from mine, where gang life is the all-pervasive norm;
2/ How many of them didn't have a male role-model in the home, and that the replacement for that void is filled by the gang on the streets;
3/ and how little such a wealthy and powerful nation seems prepared to do to try and change things - they try to deal with the results not the causes.
In addition, we all face a constant media bombardment showing us what we could have if only we had the money - the car, the woman, the holidays, the houses, the furnishings - in this vacuous society it's what we are supposed to aspire to but this vacuous society is also an increasingly divided one. So how are people at the bottom supposed to attain what we are told is the only form of success, the justification of our lives? go figure. |
Yeah, American TV and no doubt Britain has some, is filled with shows profiling criminals, gangs, jails and what not, all interesting but placing blame on the non law breaking citizen is a little galling.
There’s always been gangs in Britain, I socialized with a number of members in my youth, some that didn’t even have Harley Davidsons. | |
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| Shootings in Wealdstone on 15:18 - May 7 with 2340 views | BazzaInTheLoft |
| Shootings in Wealdstone on 14:52 - May 7 by Lblock |
It won’t surprise you that I think that is tosh
I quite fancy an Aston Martin DB7 – should I go and jack someone who drives past me in one? Or should I mug people, break into houses, hold up the newsagents etc?
Or should I get my nut down and work my way towards my goals?
Alternatively, I could just say fair play to whoever’s managed to attain a position in life through endeavour; say you lucky buggers to those born into it and instead focus on making my life and the lives of those around me who I care about as best as possible.
There’s so much wrong with this modern society from the instant gratification culture, the want it now attitude, violent video games, rap and grime music glorifying a load of old bowlarks, collapse of morals and the old order of respect....right the way up to the system that keeps many down and surpressed and the scandalous destruction of the police, the support networks, the prisons, schools and medical system
I have no answers; but blaming it all on an aspirational approach to life and thinking a commune way of living where we all own the same Skoda, one suit and a boiler suit with a daily ration of three spuds a day is the answer is madness |
I’ll skip over most of what you said, as it has nothing to do with equality.
If you really are interested, and not just participating to have a moan as usual then read The Spirit Level, which a lot of governments including our own, have put a lot a of stock in.
One thing I will say though is that I also respect endeavour and success, but the two don’t come hand in hand.
The man who makes your coffee in Starbucks endeavours no less Alan Sugar or Richard Branson yet reaps no similar reward.
Not a clue what you do for living, but I presume you feel you work hard? Other than opportunity or connections why arn’t you sitting in your Jaguar? Did the Duke of Westminster work hard? | | | |
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| Shootings in Wealdstone on 15:20 - May 7 with 2336 views | colinallcars |
| Shootings in Wealdstone on 15:05 - May 7 by Boston |
Yeah, American TV and no doubt Britain has some, is filled with shows profiling criminals, gangs, jails and what not, all interesting but placing blame on the non law breaking citizen is a little galling.
There’s always been gangs in Britain, I socialized with a number of members in my youth, some that didn’t even have Harley Davidsons. |
Yes, there have always been gangs but not like this. Our current problems are largely imported ones. I grew up on the White City Estate in the 60s, there was nothing like the scum you have now.
There is inequality and economic unfairness in British society but these scumbags probably don't even know which party is in power let alone blame anyone but themselves. |  | | |
| Shootings in Wealdstone on 15:58 - May 7 with 2298 views | distortR |
| Shootings in Wealdstone on 15:05 - May 7 by Boston |
Yeah, American TV and no doubt Britain has some, is filled with shows profiling criminals, gangs, jails and what not, all interesting but placing blame on the non law breaking citizen is a little galling.
There’s always been gangs in Britain, I socialized with a number of members in my youth, some that didn’t even have Harley Davidsons. |
Mate - do the crime, you do the time. My point was, wouldn't it be better to try to stop it before we get to the point where someone is banged up and another teen is lying dead on our streets?
The whole process of criminality is such a terribly intertwined and complex range of circumstances, motivations etc - but something needs to be done. | | | |
| Shootings in Wealdstone on 16:12 - May 7 with 2286 views | plasmahoop |
Inequality plays a part I should think, but there is a wider cultural problem here. Interesting article about the traumatised Somalian and Congolese kids. I'm not sure what exactly can be done, but I suppose a combination of investment in the real shitholes like Edmonton and Clapton, as well as far more policing and harsher sentencing. But policing is the short term solution, long term cultural change needs to happen, as well as possibly trying to not have so many areas that are entirely ethnic, and areas outside London that are entirely white. Mixing people up a bit would probably be healthy | | | |
| Shootings in Wealdstone on 16:31 - May 7 with 2261 views | MrSheen |
| Shootings in Wealdstone on 16:12 - May 7 by plasmahoop |
Inequality plays a part I should think, but there is a wider cultural problem here. Interesting article about the traumatised Somalian and Congolese kids. I'm not sure what exactly can be done, but I suppose a combination of investment in the real shitholes like Edmonton and Clapton, as well as far more policing and harsher sentencing. But policing is the short term solution, long term cultural change needs to happen, as well as possibly trying to not have so many areas that are entirely ethnic, and areas outside London that are entirely white. Mixing people up a bit would probably be healthy |
It's interesting that around 20,000 of the Somalis accepted in the Netherlands, moved to the UK in just 3 years (2002-05), which they were entitled to do under freedom of movement. The reason many gave is because the Dutch split them up, while the UK allows them to live where they like.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Somalis_in_the_Netherlands
The same article gives the extraordinary detail that most Somalis there are single men, where most of the women there are single mothers. How has that happened, and how can a society be expected to assimilate a community structured like that? |  | | |
| Shootings in Wealdstone on 16:40 - May 7 with 2247 views | plasmahoop |
| Shootings in Wealdstone on 16:31 - May 7 by MrSheen |
It's interesting that around 20,000 of the Somalis accepted in the Netherlands, moved to the UK in just 3 years (2002-05), which they were entitled to do under freedom of movement. The reason many gave is because the Dutch split them up, while the UK allows them to live where they like.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Somalis_in_the_Netherlands
The same article gives the extraordinary detail that most Somalis there are single men, where most of the women there are single mothers. How has that happened, and how can a society be expected to assimilate a community structured like that? |
Not good! | | | |
| Shootings in Wealdstone on 17:45 - May 7 with 2157 views | Boston |
| Shootings in Wealdstone on 16:31 - May 7 by MrSheen |
It's interesting that around 20,000 of the Somalis accepted in the Netherlands, moved to the UK in just 3 years (2002-05), which they were entitled to do under freedom of movement. The reason many gave is because the Dutch split them up, while the UK allows them to live where they like.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Somalis_in_the_Netherlands
The same article gives the extraordinary detail that most Somalis there are single men, where most of the women there are single mothers. How has that happened, and how can a society be expected to assimilate a community structured like that? |
That’s the perfect place to start an assimilation into the welfare state. | |
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| Shootings in Wealdstone on 18:51 - May 7 with 2101 views | BostonR |
I lived in NY in the early 80’s for a period of the time. The City was being over-run in the late 70’s/early 80’s when the Mayor decided on a zero tolerance approach to minor and serious crime. That combined with a huge increase in Police numbers had an immediate impact. It seems so obvious that if the authorities increased Police numbers massively tonight in London that would have an impact. Unless someone steps in it will not be long before there is a huge gun fight in public. It’s only a matter of time. |  | | |
| Shootings in Wealdstone on 19:12 - May 7 with 2083 views | PunteR |
| Shootings in Wealdstone on 18:51 - May 7 by BostonR |
I lived in NY in the early 80’s for a period of the time. The City was being over-run in the late 70’s/early 80’s when the Mayor decided on a zero tolerance approach to minor and serious crime. That combined with a huge increase in Police numbers had an immediate impact. It seems so obvious that if the authorities increased Police numbers massively tonight in London that would have an impact. Unless someone steps in it will not be long before there is a huge gun fight in public. It’s only a matter of time. |
Didnt the banks own NY? i think i read somewhere NY borrowed billions to clean it up ? I cant quite remember the details. |  |
| Occasional providers of half decent House music. |
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| Shootings in Wealdstone on 19:17 - May 7 with 2080 views | colinallcars |
I worry that there could be serious trouble in London this summer unless the police crack down right now. The do-gooders would squeal about peoples “ rights” being infringed but action is needed. Long term, I don't know what the answer is. We have a new wave of utter scum living amongst us. Their own communities need to sort themselves out pronto. | | | |
| Shootings in Wealdstone on 21:01 - May 7 with 1967 views | kensalriser |
You need to understand the problem before you can solve it. And the solution's probably a bit more complex than simple knee-jerk 'cracking down'.
https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2018/may/07/police-gang-violence-matrix-stra
Subcultures have emerged in which kids get trapped with little to no education (some of them can only speak multicultural London English), few opportunities and no visible way to progress except crime. |  |
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| Shootings in Wealdstone on 21:14 - May 7 with 1945 views | BazzaInTheLoft |
| Shootings in Wealdstone on 19:17 - May 7 by colinallcars |
I worry that there could be serious trouble in London this summer unless the police crack down right now. The do-gooders would squeal about peoples “ rights” being infringed but action is needed. Long term, I don't know what the answer is. We have a new wave of utter scum living amongst us. Their own communities need to sort themselves out pronto. |
Human rights and ‘do gooders’ are what allows you to continue to spout this sort of bollocks in freedom. | | | |
| Shootings in Wealdstone on 21:41 - May 7 with 1925 views | CiderwithRsie |
God, this thread is worse than the Ollie ones.
Please someone start a stupid transfer rumour or something. | | | |
| Shootings in Wealdstone on 21:55 - May 7 with 1902 views | LythamR |
as stated by others, there are no simple solutions to this
its fine to look at the situation and say get your head down and work hard for your goals, that makes perfect sense and seems reasonable to people with a reasonable level of education and a firm moral compass.
The problem is there are a lot of youngsters that currently have neither the basic moral compass or an acceptable level of education.
They are severely disadvantaged in our society because of this and the prospect of achieving even a modicum of success in their lives by getting their head down and working hard is pretty remote.
instead they look around at the people who do seem to have the superficial things they are told to aspire to within their communities and on the tv screen and go for what seems like the fast track. and thats without even touching on the examples of criminality and shocking moral examples provided by the top levels of our society, the government, the financial institutions etc
The situation with gang culture is intertwined with individual aspiration and complicates things further
I don't like it and i definitely don't condone it but i can see the circumstances and thought processes that lead to it
Everything has a cost and it seems to me that currently our society had decided that the cost of managing the situation and trying to keep a lid on it is cheaper that the cost of actually trying to significantly improve the situation through large increases on education and law enforcement, While it remains contained primarily in inner city and sink suburbs nothing will really change, it will only be when a more significant proportion of the population is really effected that real change will become a priority. once children in the leafier suburbs and regional towns start offing each other then we might as a nation finally be prepared so spend a few pence in the pound in extra tax to fund a solution |  | | |
| Shootings in Wealdstone on 22:13 - May 7 with 1881 views | Lblock |
| Shootings in Wealdstone on 15:18 - May 7 by BazzaInTheLoft |
I’ll skip over most of what you said, as it has nothing to do with equality.
If you really are interested, and not just participating to have a moan as usual then read The Spirit Level, which a lot of governments including our own, have put a lot a of stock in.
One thing I will say though is that I also respect endeavour and success, but the two don’t come hand in hand.
The man who makes your coffee in Starbucks endeavours no less Alan Sugar or Richard Branson yet reaps no similar reward.
Not a clue what you do for living, but I presume you feel you work hard? Other than opportunity or connections why arn’t you sitting in your Jaguar? Did the Duke of Westminster work hard? |
You're a right condascending knut at times aintchya?
As for asking why I'm not sitting in my Jag and the rest of your eyebrow raised, snoot cocked questions... I've done my nuts for 33 years. I've had some alright cars, I live in a quite nice place, got a few trinkets, get out and about and no worries financially... but I'm not pushing on anymore because I value one thing more than anything - time... time with the people I love. I sacrificed a lot of that doing 14 hour plus days and now comes the trade off.
Just keep seeing the best in the flotsam and jetson dragging society down and moaning about why it's the fault of everyone else who has a few dollars more than the next person. It'll get you far -- you may even solve the big issues by spouting it on here rather than having "a moan"
Cherri-oh now X | |
| Cherish and enjoy life.... this ain't no dress rehearsal |
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| Shootings in Wealdstone on 22:34 - May 7 with 1859 views | BazzaInTheLoft |
| Shootings in Wealdstone on 22:13 - May 7 by Lblock |
You're a right condascending knut at times aintchya?
As for asking why I'm not sitting in my Jag and the rest of your eyebrow raised, snoot cocked questions... I've done my nuts for 33 years. I've had some alright cars, I live in a quite nice place, got a few trinkets, get out and about and no worries financially... but I'm not pushing on anymore because I value one thing more than anything - time... time with the people I love. I sacrificed a lot of that doing 14 hour plus days and now comes the trade off.
Just keep seeing the best in the flotsam and jetson dragging society down and moaning about why it's the fault of everyone else who has a few dollars more than the next person. It'll get you far -- you may even solve the big issues by spouting it on here rather than having "a moan"
Cherri-oh now X |
I think it’s gone over your head mate. Stick to the nicknames. | | | |
| Shootings in Wealdstone on 22:38 - May 7 with 1847 views | Lblock |
| Shootings in Wealdstone on 22:34 - May 7 by BazzaInTheLoft |
I think it’s gone over your head mate. Stick to the nicknames. |
You are of course, as usual, quite right.
I apologise for my obvious obtuse and thick take on things
No further comment from me, i shall simply read on in awe...
As you were... | |
| Cherish and enjoy life.... this ain't no dress rehearsal |
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| Shootings in Wealdstone on 00:30 - May 8 with 1791 views | Boston |
| Shootings in Wealdstone on 21:01 - May 7 by kensalriser |
You need to understand the problem before you can solve it. And the solution's probably a bit more complex than simple knee-jerk 'cracking down'.
https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2018/may/07/police-gang-violence-matrix-stra
Subcultures have emerged in which kids get trapped with little to no education (some of them can only speak multicultural London English), few opportunities and no visible way to progress except crime. |
There is no guarantee that 'cracking down' will change anything. But it did in New York. The advancement of Policing technology is another big factor, though the single biggest reason may be an ageing population. | |
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