| Trouble heading our way? on 22:27 - Aug 6 with 2387 views | Benny_the_Ball |
| Trouble heading our way? on 20:46 - Aug 6 by WestbourneR |
This. The broken logic is staggeringly stupid. |
Or perhaps your feeble mind is incapable of comprehending basic English? |  | |  |
| Trouble heading our way? on 22:29 - Aug 6 with 2384 views | Lblock |
| Trouble heading our way? on 20:00 - Aug 6 by BrianMcCarthy |
I lived and worked in England for years and never wore a poppy and never got abuse for it, what matter what my trade was? No-one ever suggested I should ply my trade elsewhere, nor should they. And I'm old enough to remember when this was a choice issue. I hope it still is, by and large. [Post edited 6 Aug 2019 20:01]
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Sure I gave you stick about it in College one November and refused to let you copy my coursework!?!??!!?
Which is of course complete bull as it was always your work being copied!!
I'm not sure if this thread is a political one or not, if so I've broken my own ban so will now retire to my bed with raw chilli basted into every orifice
Sad old world we live in. |  |
| Cherish and enjoy life.... this ain't no dress rehearsal |
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| Trouble heading our way? on 22:33 - Aug 6 with 2375 views | Benny_the_Ball |
| Trouble heading our way? on 19:35 - Aug 6 by brendan |
McClean sets out his reasons for not wearing the Poppy in an open letter to Dave Whelan when he was a Wigan player. As stated in his Wiki page, he respects the fallen in both World Wars, but his problem is that the British Legion Poppy also pays respects to Servicemen who served in the North, the Paras who were responsible for the Bloody Sunday murders in Derry, the victims who are his people.
A quick search will find the letter.
I wouldn't be his biggest fan, but I respect his stance on the poppy and I wonder do those who abuse him even know his reason. A modern footballer with principles |
McClean, principles? Don't make me laugh. Are you suggesting that the millions of people in numerous cities across the UK that every year raise funds for much needed support in the Armed Forces community lack principles? | | | |
| Trouble heading our way? on 22:42 - Aug 6 with 2359 views | BazzaInTheLoft |
| Trouble heading our way? on 22:33 - Aug 6 by Benny_the_Ball |
McClean, principles? Don't make me laugh. Are you suggesting that the millions of people in numerous cities across the UK that every year raise funds for much needed support in the Armed Forces community lack principles? |
Absolutely not what Brendan said at all.
Geezer doesn’t like Poppies, for reasons that that seem fair enough to me. I can appreciate that while still supporting the British Legion myself.
Grow up. |  | | |
| Trouble heading our way? on 22:45 - Aug 6 with 2348 views | BrianMcCarthy |
| Trouble heading our way? on 22:29 - Aug 6 by Lblock |
Sure I gave you stick about it in College one November and refused to let you copy my coursework!?!??!!?
Which is of course complete bull as it was always your work being copied!!
I'm not sure if this thread is a political one or not, if so I've broken my own ban so will now retire to my bed with raw chilli basted into every orifice
Sad old world we live in. |
Ha!
I think we both copied other people's! |  |
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| Trouble heading our way? on 22:52 - Aug 6 with 2321 views | Benny_the_Ball |
| Trouble heading our way? on 20:00 - Aug 6 by BrianMcCarthy |
I lived and worked in England for years and never wore a poppy and never got abuse for it, what matter what my trade was? No-one ever suggested I should ply my trade elsewhere, nor should they. And I'm old enough to remember when this was a choice issue. I hope it still is, by and large. [Post edited 6 Aug 2019 20:01]
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I suggest you read the post to understand before re-posting the same drivel.
You can't compare your situation with McClean. You are making an individual decision not to purchase a poppy, which is fine. McClean chose to rally against the tradition of football clubs printing poppies on the shirts to mark Remembrance Day.
Now those who don't believe in McClean's decision can respect it but have every right to criticise it; that's not abuse. | | | |
| Trouble heading our way? on 23:00 - Aug 6 with 2296 views | BrianMcCarthy |
| Trouble heading our way? on 22:52 - Aug 6 by Benny_the_Ball |
I suggest you read the post to understand before re-posting the same drivel.
You can't compare your situation with McClean. You are making an individual decision not to purchase a poppy, which is fine. McClean chose to rally against the tradition of football clubs printing poppies on the shirts to mark Remembrance Day.
Now those who don't believe in McClean's decision can respect it but have every right to criticise it; that's not abuse. |
But you have said that he should expect abuse.
I disagree, I don't think anyone should expect abuse for making an individual decision, no matter what they do for a living. | |
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| Trouble heading our way? on 23:03 - Aug 6 with 2281 views | Benny_the_Ball |
| Trouble heading our way? on 22:42 - Aug 6 by BazzaInTheLoft |
Absolutely not what Brendan said at all.
Geezer doesn’t like Poppies, for reasons that that seem fair enough to me. I can appreciate that while still supporting the British Legion myself.
Grow up. |
Absolutely what is being said (by mainly Irish folk I note).
McClean's reasoning is flawed as he believes that the poppy symbolises every conflict that the British Army has been involved in. It doesn't. It was conceived during the first world war and symbolises Remembrance Day (which for most people centres on the world wars).
People don't apopreciate his view and express their opinion. That seems fair enough to me.
Now do one, you patronising twunt. [Post edited 6 Aug 2019 23:04]
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| Trouble heading our way? on 23:07 - Aug 6 with 2263 views | BrianMcCarthy |
| Trouble heading our way? on 23:03 - Aug 6 by Benny_the_Ball |
Absolutely what is being said (by mainly Irish folk I note).
McClean's reasoning is flawed as he believes that the poppy symbolises every conflict that the British Army has been involved in. It doesn't. It was conceived during the first world war and symbolises Remembrance Day (which for most people centres on the world wars).
People don't apopreciate his view and express their opinion. That seems fair enough to me.
Now do one, you patronising twunt. [Post edited 6 Aug 2019 23:04]
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"Every year, the Legion calls on the nation to unite in commemorating Remembrance Sunday.
On Sunday 10 November 2019, the National Service of Remembrance will be held at the Cenotaph on Whitehall, London.
Starting at 11am, the service will commemorate the contribution of British and Commonwealth military and civilian servicemen and women involved in the two World Wars and later conflicts."(bold inserted by me).
https://www.britishlegion.org.uk/get-involved/remembrance/remembrance-events/rem | |
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| Trouble heading our way? on 23:10 - Aug 6 with 2253 views | BazzaInTheLoft |
| Trouble heading our way? on 23:03 - Aug 6 by Benny_the_Ball |
Absolutely what is being said (by mainly Irish folk I note).
McClean's reasoning is flawed as he believes that the poppy symbolises every conflict that the British Army has been involved in. It doesn't. It was conceived during the first world war and symbolises Remembrance Day (which for most people centres on the world wars).
People don't apopreciate his view and express their opinion. That seems fair enough to me.
Now do one, you patronising twunt. [Post edited 6 Aug 2019 23:04]
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When you can’t even get your basic facts straight you make it easy for me. | | | |
| Trouble heading our way? on 23:51 - Aug 6 with 2207 views | LythamR |
| Trouble heading our way? on 23:03 - Aug 6 by Benny_the_Ball |
Absolutely what is being said (by mainly Irish folk I note).
McClean's reasoning is flawed as he believes that the poppy symbolises every conflict that the British Army has been involved in. It doesn't. It was conceived during the first world war and symbolises Remembrance Day (which for most people centres on the world wars).
People don't apopreciate his view and express their opinion. That seems fair enough to me.
Now do one, you patronising twunt. [Post edited 6 Aug 2019 23:04]
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"Now do one, you patronising twunt."
Is this the type of constructive criticism you mentioned earliee? |  | | |
| Trouble heading our way? on 23:55 - Aug 6 with 2204 views | Benny_the_Ball |
| Trouble heading our way? on 23:07 - Aug 6 by BrianMcCarthy |
"Every year, the Legion calls on the nation to unite in commemorating Remembrance Sunday.
On Sunday 10 November 2019, the National Service of Remembrance will be held at the Cenotaph on Whitehall, London.
Starting at 11am, the service will commemorate the contribution of British and Commonwealth military and civilian servicemen and women involved in the two World Wars and later conflicts."(bold inserted by me).
https://www.britishlegion.org.uk/get-involved/remembrance/remembrance-events/rem |
It depends how you define conflict. Now I'm a Catholic and, having grown up with many Irish folk, have deep sympathy for the tragic events of Bloody Sunday. However, I think it's stretching it to consider this unfortunate incident a conflict. In any event, the British Legion adopted the poppy; they did not define its symbolism.
Scarlet corn poppies grow naturally in conditions of disturbed earth throughout Western Europe. In 1914, the poppy was one of the only plants to grow in the barren battlefields of Northern France and Flanders following World War One conflicts.
In 1915, the significance of the poppy as a lasting memorial symbol to the fallen was realised by the Canadian surgeon John McCrae in his poem 'In Flanders Fields'. The poppy then came to represent the immeasurable sacrifice made by his comrades and quickly became a lasting memorial to those who died in World War One.
The British Legion adopted the symbol in 1921 and years later extended their definition to include later conflicts. However it's origins remain rooted in the First World War, in particular Armistice Day (11 November).
https://www.iwm.org.uk/history/why-we-wear-poppies-on-remembrance-day [Post edited 6 Aug 2019 23:57]
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| Trouble heading our way? on 23:58 - Aug 6 with 2200 views | WestbourneR |
| Trouble heading our way? on 22:27 - Aug 6 by Benny_the_Ball |
Or perhaps your feeble mind is incapable of comprehending basic English? |
Hmmm... ok Benny the Ball. |  |
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| Trouble heading our way? on 00:11 - Aug 7 with 2190 views | Benny_the_Ball |
| Trouble heading our way? on 23:00 - Aug 6 by BrianMcCarthy |
But you have said that he should expect abuse.
I disagree, I don't think anyone should expect abuse for making an individual decision, no matter what they do for a living. |
Being Irish, I understand why you empathise with McClean. However millions disagree with his (and your) take on matters and feel passionately about Remembrance Day (which, however you try to paint it, is not about the Parachute Regiment who opened fire on civil rights demonstrators in the Bogside).
Don't get me wrong, Brian, I'm not discounting your view. I respect it but I understand the strength of feeling on both sides. Given this, I think McClean is unjustified and unrealistic to expect immunity from criticism and KickItOut are devaluing their cause by supporting him. [Post edited 7 Aug 2019 0:14]
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| Trouble heading our way? on 00:27 - Aug 7 with 2167 views | BrianMcCarthy |
| Trouble heading our way? on 00:11 - Aug 7 by Benny_the_Ball |
Being Irish, I understand why you empathise with McClean. However millions disagree with his (and your) take on matters and feel passionately about Remembrance Day (which, however you try to paint it, is not about the Parachute Regiment who opened fire on civil rights demonstrators in the Bogside).
Don't get me wrong, Brian, I'm not discounting your view. I respect it but I understand the strength of feeling on both sides. Given this, I think McClean is unjustified and unrealistic to expect immunity from criticism and KickItOut are devaluing their cause by supporting him. [Post edited 7 Aug 2019 0:14]
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I'm not trying to paint it any way at all. You were, and I was providing you with extra info from the British Legion.
McClean has referenced the war in the North generally as well as Bloody Sunday in particular. I don't think anyone can paint the war in the North as anything other than a conflict.
By the way, I'm English. I have my own reasons for not wearing a poppy, they are mine alone, they differ from McClean's, and they have nothing to do with Nationhood. | |
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| Trouble heading our way? on 08:43 - Aug 7 with 1895 views | terryb |
| Trouble heading our way? on 22:52 - Aug 6 by Benny_the_Ball |
I suggest you read the post to understand before re-posting the same drivel.
You can't compare your situation with McClean. You are making an individual decision not to purchase a poppy, which is fine. McClean chose to rally against the tradition of football clubs printing poppies on the shirts to mark Remembrance Day.
Now those who don't believe in McClean's decision can respect it but have every right to criticise it; that's not abuse. |
For the second time.
It is not a long standing tradition for clubs to wear poppies on their shirts. This is a 21st century innovation. |  | | |
| Trouble heading our way? on 23:04 - Aug 7 with 1762 views | Benny_the_Ball |
| Trouble heading our way? on 00:27 - Aug 7 by BrianMcCarthy |
I'm not trying to paint it any way at all. You were, and I was providing you with extra info from the British Legion.
McClean has referenced the war in the North generally as well as Bloody Sunday in particular. I don't think anyone can paint the war in the North as anything other than a conflict.
By the way, I'm English. I have my own reasons for not wearing a poppy, they are mine alone, they differ from McClean's, and they have nothing to do with Nationhood. |
Brain McCarthy. Mmm, English by birth perhaps but with that name and a Don Givens avatar, I'd wager you're of Irish stock.
I take your point about the troubles as a period of conflict in Northern Ireland. However it involved republican and loyalist paramilitaries, the British security forces, and civil rights groups, none of whom are formally part of the country's armed forces.
Moreover, the poppy does not symbolise the troubles in the North. The extra info I provided from the Imperial War Museum (and other websites if you care to search) clearly shows that the poppy is a symbol of Remembrance from World War One. The British Legion may have hijacked it for their appeal but they didn't originate it and certainly do not define its symbolism.
For avoidance of doubt, I'm not suggesting for a second that you should wear a poppy. I'm merely pointing out that millions across Europe consider Remembrance Day as sacred and are perfectly entitled to criticise McClean's decision. You're entitled to share his view, of course, but it doesn't grant him immunity from this criticism. | | | |
| Trouble heading our way? on 23:59 - Aug 7 with 1700 views | BazzaInTheLoft |
| Trouble heading our way? on 23:04 - Aug 7 by Benny_the_Ball |
Brain McCarthy. Mmm, English by birth perhaps but with that name and a Don Givens avatar, I'd wager you're of Irish stock.
I take your point about the troubles as a period of conflict in Northern Ireland. However it involved republican and loyalist paramilitaries, the British security forces, and civil rights groups, none of whom are formally part of the country's armed forces.
Moreover, the poppy does not symbolise the troubles in the North. The extra info I provided from the Imperial War Museum (and other websites if you care to search) clearly shows that the poppy is a symbol of Remembrance from World War One. The British Legion may have hijacked it for their appeal but they didn't originate it and certainly do not define its symbolism.
For avoidance of doubt, I'm not suggesting for a second that you should wear a poppy. I'm merely pointing out that millions across Europe consider Remembrance Day as sacred and are perfectly entitled to criticise McClean's decision. You're entitled to share his view, of course, but it doesn't grant him immunity from this criticism. |
I have Marx in mine and I assure you I am not Prussian. | | | |
| Trouble heading our way? on 00:51 - Aug 8 with 1663 views | CiderwithRsie |
I'm not Irish, I come from an army family.TBH I think I have a more sympathetic view of the paras on Bloody Sunday than Benny the Ball seems to have but that's another story.
I'm not having it that the poppy and Remembrance Day has nothing to do with post-World War conflicts - every year contingents from Korea, the Falklands etc march. Many British troops were killed or injured in The Troubles and I am very happy to give towards charities helping them or their families and to commemorate their service. Don't go telling a bloke who had his leg blown off that he wasn't involved in a conflict.
I'm entitled to do that and McClean has the exact same right to want nothing to do with it, without either of us getting abuse. We would have been on opposite sides in The Troubles but the point is they're over and we ought to be able to get along without looking for reasons to hate each other.
Still less to have a pop at pacifists like Brian Mc on here whose always been absolutely clear he wouldn't have been on either side and is probably a better man than me for it. | | | |
| Trouble heading our way? on 06:20 - Aug 8 with 1625 views | BrianMcCarthy |
| Trouble heading our way? on 00:51 - Aug 8 by CiderwithRsie |
I'm not Irish, I come from an army family.TBH I think I have a more sympathetic view of the paras on Bloody Sunday than Benny the Ball seems to have but that's another story.
I'm not having it that the poppy and Remembrance Day has nothing to do with post-World War conflicts - every year contingents from Korea, the Falklands etc march. Many British troops were killed or injured in The Troubles and I am very happy to give towards charities helping them or their families and to commemorate their service. Don't go telling a bloke who had his leg blown off that he wasn't involved in a conflict.
I'm entitled to do that and McClean has the exact same right to want nothing to do with it, without either of us getting abuse. We would have been on opposite sides in The Troubles but the point is they're over and we ought to be able to get along without looking for reasons to hate each other.
Still less to have a pop at pacifists like Brian Mc on here whose always been absolutely clear he wouldn't have been on either side and is probably a better man than me for it. |
Excellent post. Vive la difference. | |
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| Trouble heading our way? on 09:33 - Aug 8 with 1527 views | robith |
| Trouble heading our way? on 17:57 - Aug 5 by toboboly |
It’s not racist though |
It is often sectarian though |  | | |
| Trouble heading our way? on 09:34 - Aug 8 with 1527 views | robith |
| Trouble heading our way? on 16:09 - Aug 6 by Benny_the_Ball |
You can't compare your personal layman decision not to purchase a poppy with a professional footballer disrespecting a long standing tradition in this country. If McClean feels so strongly he could choose to ply his trade elsewhere.
How would Kick It Out feel if individual footballers refused to acknowledge its cause for personal reasons?
The irony is that the freedoms and lifestyle that McLean and others are privileged to enjoy were guaranteed by the very people they now refuse to acknowledge. [Post edited 6 Aug 2019 16:24]
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This ain't it chief | | | |
| Trouble heading our way? on 09:39 - Aug 8 with 1517 views | robith |
| Trouble heading our way? on 23:04 - Aug 7 by Benny_the_Ball |
Brain McCarthy. Mmm, English by birth perhaps but with that name and a Don Givens avatar, I'd wager you're of Irish stock.
I take your point about the troubles as a period of conflict in Northern Ireland. However it involved republican and loyalist paramilitaries, the British security forces, and civil rights groups, none of whom are formally part of the country's armed forces.
Moreover, the poppy does not symbolise the troubles in the North. The extra info I provided from the Imperial War Museum (and other websites if you care to search) clearly shows that the poppy is a symbol of Remembrance from World War One. The British Legion may have hijacked it for their appeal but they didn't originate it and certainly do not define its symbolism.
For avoidance of doubt, I'm not suggesting for a second that you should wear a poppy. I'm merely pointing out that millions across Europe consider Remembrance Day as sacred and are perfectly entitled to criticise McClean's decision. You're entitled to share his view, of course, but it doesn't grant him immunity from this criticism. |
But The Poppy appeak themselves say:
"Poppies are worn as a show of support for the Armed Forces community, those currently serving, veterans and their families.
The poppy is a well-known and well-established symbol, one that carries a wealth of history and meaning with it. Wearing a poppy is still a very personal choice, reflecting individual experiences and personal memories. It is never compulsory but is greatly appreciated by those who it is intended to support."
It may be from WW1, but it is used as a symbol of all Remberance and to fund raise for all service people.
Also, the weird way you keep focusing on Irish people is bloody creepy mate | | | |
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