Forum | VAR offside by PinnerPaul

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VAR offside 15:54 - May 16 with 3349 views

Someone on RefChat has explained far better than me why those tight offside calls (like yesterday's) are indeed a nonsense/lottery/disgrace/wonderful - depending on whether they go for or against you!

"VAR uses cameras than run at 50 frames per second, with one picture taken every 0.02 seconds.

When an offside decision is being deliberated, VAR must choose the frame which proves with certainty that the ball has been touched. If Frame A shows the boot not touching the ball, then VAR must select the next one in which the ball has definitely been touched.

But the actual first point of contact will be somewhere between the frames. And in that time, a player can move from onside to offside.

This means there is a margin for error, and it varies depending on the speed of the attackers and defenders.

Based on the fastest speed recorded in the Premier League last season - 21.75mph (35kmh) - that margin could be as big as 38.8cm.

So, if a player is found to be offside by less than the margin, the VAR can’t be sure whether they were offside or not at the moment the ball was played.

Reports claim that lawmakers are already considering reviewing VAR’s offside system.

Clearly, something needs to be done."

VAR offside on 17:58 - May 17 with 819 views

PinnerPaul

VAR offside on 17:53 - May 17 by stowmarketrange

The offside law has definitely made it worse for linesmen,especially volunteers at weekend matches.
The ref tells us to wait and see if the player who is offside is going for the ball before putting the flag up.Which is ok when it’s clear and obvious,but when things are happening so fast and it might be 40 yards away,it isn’t always possible to see clearly whether the player is 5 yards away from the ball and going for it or not.

I had one ref a few weeks again that played on even though I’d flagged for offside and the player kicked the ball towards the goal.As it went straight out for a goal kick he came over and said he would only give the free kick for offside if she’d scored.What chance does an amateur stand when the ref can come out with a decision like that?

Depends where the player was.

What (I think) he meant was, it was only worth giving a fk in that instance if she scored because GK would be in a similar place?

I always say to club assistants, please flag if touching the ball or about to.

We get different instructions from the ref as a paid AR of course, but not that different.

VAR offside on 18:12 - May 17 with 800 views

stowmarketrange

VAR offside on 17:58 - May 17 by PinnerPaul
Depends where the player was. What (I think) he meant was, it was only worth giving a fk in that instance if she scored because GK would be in a similar place? I always say to club assistants, please flag if touching the ball or about to. We get different instructions from the ref as a paid AR of course, but not that different.

She was through on goal between the 18 yard box and penalty spot in the middle of the goal,and it was probably ok to give a goal kick instead,but it does put doubt in my mind whether to flag or not,if he chooses to ignore it anyway.
Luckily the league my daughter plays in doesn’t seem to have much dissent from the players,but I can see it causing a few problems in men’s football sometimes.

VAR offside on 18:12 - May 17 with 795 views

gazza1

VAR offside on 17:53 - May 17 by stowmarketrange

It must be a nightmare......not sure I would do it unless pushed into it. Not good.

VAR offside on 18:15 - May 17 with 792 views

stowmarketrange

VAR offside on 18:12 - May 17 by gazza1
It must be a nightmare......not sure I would do it unless pushed into it. Not good.

I still enjoy it,but it takes me longer to recover from 90 minutes of running up and down the line than it used to do.I can normally walk again by Tuesday after a Sunday afternoon game.

VAR offside on 18:18 - May 17 with 790 views

francisbowles

VAR offside on 16:52 - May 16 by PinnerPaul

Try handball!

"Handling the ball
For the purposes of determining handball offences, the upper boundary of
the arm is in line with the bottom of the armpit.
It is an offence if a player:
- deliberately touches the ball with their hand/arm, including moving the
hand/arm towards the ball
-â€‚scores in the opponents’ goal directly from their hand/arm, even if
accidental, including by the goalkeeper
- after the ball has touched their or a team-mate’s hand/arm, even if
accidental, immediately:
- scores in the opponents’ goal
- creates a goal-scoring opportunity
- touches the ball with their hand/arm when:
- the hand/arm has made their body unnaturally bigger
- the hand/arm is above/beyond their shoulder level (unless the player
deliberately plays the ball which then touches their hand/arm)
The above offences apply even if the ball touches a player’s hand/arm
directly from the head or body (including the foot) of another player who is
close.
Except for the above offences, it is not an offence if the ball touches a
player’s hand/arm:

-â€‚directly from the player’s own head or body (including the foot)
-â€‚directly from the head or body (including the foot) of another player who is close
-â€‚if the hand/arm is close to the body and does not make the body unnaturally
bigger
-â€‚when a player falls and the hand/arm is between the body and the ground to
support the body, but not extended laterally or vertically away from the body
The goalkeeper has the same restrictions on handling the ball as any other
player outside the penalty area. If the goalkeeper handles the ball inside their
penalty area when not permitted to do so, an indirect free kick is awarded but
there is no disciplinary sanction. However, if the offence is playing the ball a
second time (with or without the hand/arm) after a restart before it touches
another player, the goalkeeper must be sanctioned if the offence stops a
promising attack or denies an opponent or the opposing team a goal or an
obvious goal-scoring opportunity."

PLUS they have modified it AGAIN for next season

New text
(…)
Not every touch of a player’s hand/arm with the ball is an offence.
It is an offence if a player:
- deliberately touches the ball with their hand/arm, for example moving the
hand/arm towards the ball
- touches the ball with their hand/arm when it has made their body unnaturally
bigger. A player is considered to have made their body unnaturally bigger
when the position of their hand/arm is not a consequence of, or justifiable by,
the player’s body movement for that specific situation. By having their hand/
arm in such a position, the player takes a risk of their hand/arm being hit by
the ball and being penalised
- scores in the opponents’ goal:
Â· directly from their hand/arm, even if accidental, including by the goalkeeper
Â· immediately after the ball has touched their hand/arm, even if accidental
Explanation
- Not every contact between the hand/arm and the ball is a handball offence.
- Referees must judge the ‘validity’ of the hand/arm’s position in relation to
what the player is doing in that particular situation.
- Accidental handball by a team-mate before a goal is scored and accidental
handball creating a goal-scoring opportunity have been removed as offences

Easy eh?!

So what was wrong with 'all handballs must be deliberate'?

Also, I agree with Bosh's view of how offside should be.

VAR offside on 18:19 - May 17 with 784 views

gazza1

VAR offside on 18:15 - May 17 by stowmarketrange
I still enjoy it,but it takes me longer to recover from 90 minutes of running up and down the line than it used to do.I can normally walk again by Tuesday after a Sunday afternoon game.

Yea, I bet....takes a bit of fun out of it!!!

VAR offside on 18:38 - May 17 with 757 views

stowmarketrange

VAR offside on 18:19 - May 17 by gazza1
Yea, I bet....takes a bit of fun out of it!!!

I’m tempted to say that offside isn’t a problem in the women’s game I run the line for because none of them know the offside law anyway,but that would be sexist and worthy of a ban.

VAR offside on 19:08 - May 17 with 721 views

QPR_John

VAR offside on 17:44 - May 17 by bosh67
In my humble opinion offside should be if the attacking player is in front of the last defender and there is clear daylight between them. If any part of the last defender is level with the attacker then it should be onside. Football would be so much better for it and VAR would be so much easier to manage.

Could not agree more

VAR offside on 19:13 - May 17 with 712 views

Juzzie

VAR offside on 17:44 - May 17 by bosh67
In my humble opinion offside should be if the attacking player is in front of the last defender and there is clear daylight between them. If any part of the last defender is level with the attacker then it should be onside. Football would be so much better for it and VAR would be so much easier to manage.

In the same way the whole of the ball has to be over the line in order for it to be a goal.

VAR offside on 21:30 - May 17 with 664 views

karl

If both players running in opposite direction at top speed you're looking 80cm!
I think it was Klopp in the early days who had it 100% correct, use a thick splodge of a line and if you can't see a difference to the view of the Assistant Referee as its too blurred then leave the decision as on field and get on with it.
These minute laser beam like lines they have are a joke and the game of football has never been played to these details.
Hursts goal still spoken about, Lampards, Maradonas too. All impacted England and subject to great debate, exactly what we all want from football.
I laughed as loud as anyone on Saturday but it's not what the game should be about, the AR could have actually given the offside but he knew there was no need but it's not the right way for a cup final to end

VAR offside on 06:56 - May 18 with 587 views

ahoz

VAR offside on 17:44 - May 17 by bosh67
In my humble opinion offside should be if the attacking player is in front of the last defender and there is clear daylight between them. If any part of the last defender is level with the attacker then it should be onside. Football would be so much better for it and VAR would be so much easier to manage.

I agree with you, Bosh. That would make much more sense and easier to manage than the nonsense where a player is offside just because a whisker of his beard protrudes past an opponents.
Personally I consider the offside rule a blight on the game (there are others eg the passing around ad nauseum in defence, but we'll leave that for now).
At one stage in Scotland in the 70s they changed the offside rule significantly which would have been successful but for their playing other games at the time under the older rules and managers complaining players were getting confused.

VAR offside on 07:42 - May 18 with 553 views

distortR

VAR offside on 17:44 - May 17 by bosh67
In my humble opinion offside should be if the attacking player is in front of the last defender and there is clear daylight between them. If any part of the last defender is level with the attacker then it should be onside. Football would be so much better for it and VAR would be so much easier to manage.

that would change the game quite considerably though, probably stretch the pitch as nervous defenders hung back. "Any part of the defender level" will still see lines being drawn on photographic stills.
Football actually worked pretty well before VAR...............

VAR offside on 08:01 - May 18 with 535 views

stowmarketrange

VAR offside on 07:42 - May 18 by distortR
that would change the game quite considerably though, probably stretch the pitch as nervous defenders hung back. "Any part of the defender level" will still see lines being drawn on photographic stills. Football actually worked pretty well before VAR...............

Exactly mate.You would only move the lines forward to see if the hairs on the back of his head are clear of the last defender or not.I guess the answer might be to not use var for offside decisions unless it’s really obvious that a mistake has been made.

VAR offside on 15:41 - May 18 with 452 views

PinnerPaul

VAR offside on 18:15 - May 17 by stowmarketrange
I still enjoy it,but it takes me longer to recover from 90 minutes of running up and down the line than it used to do.I can normally walk again by Tuesday after a Sunday afternoon game.

You should try a few (male) Under 23 games!

Always makes me laugh when some joker shouts "Keep up with play lino"

I always think if an U23 Isthmian League player can't out run a 60 year old, he may be in the wrong sport!

VAR offside on 15:45 - May 18 with 439 views

stowmarketrange

VAR offside on 15:41 - May 18 by PinnerPaul
You should try a few (male) Under 23 games! Always makes me laugh when some joker shouts "Keep up with play lino" I always think if an U23 Isthmian League player can't out run a 60 year old, he may be in the wrong sport!

You’re ok thanks.Don’t forget I’m 2 months older than you mate.

VAR offside on 16:41 - May 18 with 409 views

PinnerPaul

VAR offside on 15:45 - May 18 by stowmarketrange
You’re ok thanks.Don’t forget I’m 2 months older than you mate.

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